Search the Community
Showing results for tags 'analysis'.
Found 3 results
To begin, I don't often post here so I may be mostly unknown. I'm a small time content creator with over 3000 hours in single player and over 800 hours in solo DST. Hopefully there are a couple of people here who can attest to my experience and skill in DS so that this doesn't come across as a rant from someone who doesn't know the game well. I am someone who has always loved Don't Starve as a series and usually I trust Klei and the choices they make. In recent times though, it's become more and more clear that the designers do not understand how to balance characters. Whether it be the new characters in Hamlet or these new refreshes in DST. So first, let's look at the mistakes made with Winona's balance along with the horrible precedence that they set and then we'll dive deeper into the general idea of how to balance a character in Don't Starve in hopes that the future reworks do not miss the mark as hard as Winona's did. First, Winona's identity is that she is a better builder. Tying her perk of building things faster to hunger doesn't even make sense, but worse than that, at a certain point she crafts even slower than other characters at similar hunger levels. So while Wolfgang is not a builder, when he's starving and in wimpy form he somehow builds twice as fast as an equally hungry Winona..? This just conflicts with her entire character. Due to the huge cost of building at all with 5 hunger per craft, she has essentially become the worst builder in the entire cast. Consider how a single drying rack costs Winona 20 hunger to craft. If I were balancing her, the hunger cost to craft would be entirely removed again. If a downside must be tied to her crafting speed, then I would want it to be an interesting downside. Something like, she sweats and builds up her water meter, or she becomes more vulnerable to outside temperature, causing her to freeze faster in winter and heat up faster in summer. One thing is for sure though, I absolutely would not play her in a megabase anymore. This downside is cripplingly annoying. The time spent farming and feeding her to keep her perk active will far outweigh the insignificant time she saves while crafting. So, we've established that Winona is not useful to play anymore for long periods of time due to the time and resources wasted by her downside. So what about her new upsides? She can now build two unique things; a catapult and a light. The light is fine if only a bit uninspired, and honestly, an invention like this made from random resources found in nature seems more like it'd be up Wilson's alley as a scientist than Winona's as a builder. But, the real meat of this update is how insanely strong the catapults are. A 10 minute solo kill of misery toadstool? Indescribably insane. If this level of power was worth using then Winona would definitely be good right? Sadly, anyone can use her catapult. Because of this, why would anyone play around the downsides of Winona for long periods when they could instead change into Winona, build as many catapults as they want in the late game, then change into a "better" character? This really shows how Klei does not understand the balance in their game anymore. You may as well replace Winona's picture with a catapult, because that's the only reason anyone would pick her, and even then, it will only be for short periods to hoard her "unique" item, and then just utilize it on stronger characters. This really leads into a good discussion of balance though. Why can a character be useless while also having such a powerful "unique" item? Because it's not truly unique if she can just craft it and give it away. So let's look at the general state of balance with just a few key characters so that this post doesn't turn into so huge a post that no one actually reads it. Wickerbottom: Wickerbottom is in a tier of her own. While in single player she is generally considered to be part of the power 3, in DST, she stands alone as the unquestionable queen of multiplayer. Her stats are nothing amazing, but she has several powerful (actually) unique items that only herself and Maxwell can use. Using her books, she also becomes the best partner for pretty much any other character in the game, especially the next 3 strongest (WX, Wolfgang, and Maxwell.) because she can either augment their unique strengths or entirely remove their weaknesses helping them also transcend to the level of gods. Wolfgang: Wolfgang is in the power three that exists below Wickerbottom. His perk of dealing double damage is extremely helpful and makes fighting bosses much safer and faster. When comboing with Wickerbottom, his hunger and sanity downsides can both be fixed trivially easy via Applied Horticulture. So, what he uniquely brings to the team is that he essentially always deals double damage and moves 10% faster and has the second highest stats. He's a safe and powerful character and he's a big pile of stats. WX-78: WX is also in the power three. WX is purely stats on a stick by himself; boasting the highest stats in the game with an insane 400 hp. He also helps a team early on by being able to eat the mostly spoiled food at full value while saving fresh food for his teammates. His combo with Wickerbottom comes from her book the End if Nigh. Via reading this book Wickerbottom can intentionally overcharge WX to become an unholy broken machine. While overcharged, WX moves faster, emits his own light field so he is immune to darkness, and is immune to freezing in Winter. This version of WX is self evidently broken and cleanly earns him a spot in the power three as the safest to play character who is also the most efficient explorer thanks to controlled overcharge. Maxwell: Maxwell is the final member of the power three. His stats are well below average, having half the hp of most of the cast. He makes up for this with his shadow partners. Maxwell can use his shadows to cheaply and quickly farm an obscene amount of basic resources, whether its rocks or woods he can farm it faster than any other character by a landslide. By collecting resources this quickly and sharing them with his team he essentially frees them up to pursue other goals and accelerates all building plans by in game years. His combo with Wickerbottom is that he is the only other character who can read her books and with his built in sanity regen he can negate the sanity cost of doing so meaning that he can save her sanity and put his sanity regen perk to work so that it isn't wasted. Now, from those quick summaries, we can see that the one thing that makes all 4 of them powerful is the fact that they are truly unique in a way that can not be replicated or used by another character. Other people can't have Wolfgang's strength, other people can't get overcharged, others can't use shadow partners, others can't make and use books. These characters are actually special. Characters need to be special in some way that makes it worth picking them. While I don't want to start up an old fight, let's take a quick look at Wigfrid vs Wolfgang in DST for the best example of how a lack of uniqueness can make a character not worth picking. Wigfrid is not as tanky (despite her built in damage negation), she does far less damage than Wolfgang (when she attacks 8 times it's the same as Wolfang attacking 5), she does not get a speed boost like Wolfgang does (which frequently let's a kiting Wolfgang get in a full extra attack before dodging the enemy's attack), and she does not have her downside fully negated via Wickerbottom or any other character (while Wickerbottom can grow food instantly, she can't grow meat). So from a combat and teamplay perspective Wigfrid is a worse Wolfgang in all regards. So to make Wigfrid a viable pick and a valuable teammate we have to look to what actually makes her unique. She has unique craftables. A spear and a helmet. The spear is slightly better than a basic spear but is made worthless with any decent mid or late game weapons but the helmet is a great upgrade on the football helmet, being both cheaper to craft and stronger. Sadly, a player can just change into Wigfrid in the late game, craft as many of these cheap but excellent helmets as they want, then change back into a better character and not have to deal with her downsides. Wigfrid, aside from "I like the character so I pick her anyways" reason, has no reason to be picked by someone who is trying hard, as her only unique aspect can be made in bulk and used by others. And this is exactly what is going to happen with Winona. Craftables should never be taken into account when balancing a character unless only the crafting character can use it. If any character can use it and you nerf a character to an appropriately weak state to justify the power of their craftable, then players will always just use that weak character to craft stuff then change into an actually good character. This doesn't make characters more interesting or powerful, it simply furthers the divide from the top 4 characters and everyone else. This is less of a refresh and more of a slap in the face to people who have dedicated time and love to Winona and I genuinely fear for any future refresh announcements as it is unlikely Klei will learn from this mistake and we will simply see average characters get brought down to worse levels, while providing new toys for the 4 best characters to use and abuse. So while you may not love Winona, what if it were the character that you loved who got nerfed in such a way that (s)he becomes annoying to play and only adds power to the top 4 characters. First they came for Warly, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Warly main. Then they came for Winona, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Winona main. Then they came for my main character - and there was no one left to speak for me. TL;DR So, this refresh honestly killed a character who was at least fun to play by giving her a crippling and annoying downside in an attempt to balance the strength of her unique craftable. Characters should not be balanced around their craftables. If they are, then players will always simply build said items then change into stronger characters with better stats. I posit that you could entirely remove this new nerf and Winona still would not be a "power 3" level character. She'd be just fine, a character that you pick for aesthetic reasons and who happens to have a cool and useful catapult and no real downsides or upsides. Characters must be able to stand on their own two feet and be worth picking for their stats, perks, and uniqueness. A unique craftable item is a fun extra upside, but it can't define the character when other characters can use it equally well. There are many other things I would like to say about balance cause the core focus so far was only about craftables. If this post actually reaches anyone then I would love to discuss more the flaws in designing a character that simply counters their own weaknesses in boring ways (visa-vi Warly in single player). I conclude this post with a few images of my megabase on Winona. 120 hours of my life dedicated to a fun character with a unique niche and interesting personality. Now to just sit there, unplayed and unfinished, because of this "refresh." Rest in peace.
I love the game and it's been a blast so far but it's getting boring in the end game so I can't wait for future updates and see what you've come up with! Here are some suggestions which I'm sure some have already been mentioned, but here goes: Hide UI Functionality I would be more immersed in the game (and see more of the surrounding area) if there was a way to hide the building menu bar on the left and the lower inventory bar with a simple push of a button. Custom Keyboard Settings Not that important, but this would be useful for players that like to play with their own setup and change the keyboard buttons and what they do. Maybe even custom Mouse settings? Breakdown Machine Occasionally I have built Cut Stone, Boards and Rope and then suddenly have a need for Rocks, Logs or Grass so if there was a machine that would break down these things back to their original form (maybe lose -1 material, so you only get 2 Rocks back from a Cut Stone etc.) - that would be pretty convenient. Giant Evergreen Boss Make them drop something unique! After an epic battle with it I only got some logs which wasn't worth the fight, honestly. If they'd drop an amulet or a Logsuit or a special weapon, it would be much more worth it going after them and searching them. Rock Golem Similar to Giant Evergreens, maybe some Rocks could spawn a Giant Rock Golem that's even harder to kill and it would drop lots of rocks & gold nuggets. More Hounds! I'm at day 70+ and I rarely get more than 4-5 hounds and they're easy to kill, since they come 1 by 1. Maybe if more of them spawned the further you got in the game, that would make surviving their attacks a priority. Larger World 9-12 islands is not enough to satisfy the need to explore and find new areas.
ShiftyCake posted a topic in [Don't Starve] General DiscussionWelcome! I'm new to this community, and Don't Starve as well, so I hope you guys give me a warm welcome Now, I've been noticing things here and there about Don't Starve in my amazing 3 hours of game-play (yeah, I know, quite a lot), and I decided I should make a thread of this for those people who don't know this. I forgot most of the things, but I have here my first thing to tell you guys about, which will be my starting point. be sure to check in regularly to see new things I've discovered/strategy's of survival I wish to share. If you wish to put in your two-bits of what you're discovered, simply post below and I'll add it in after verifying. --- General Killing: It appears that most Hostile creatures have an attacking animation which allows you to hit them right after it (as they recover themselves). Just repeat this process: run, let them catch up, dodge the attack and hit them. --- Hostile Tallbird (with it's egg): [ATTACH=CONFIG]611[/ATTACH] - Defined as a "mother" in my view. - It will attack you if you go within a certain radius of the egg, but otherwise leaves you alone. - If you take the egg, it will chase you endlessly until an unknown time. It appears the time may be indefinite, and dropping the egg doesn’t help. Perhaps place the egg back in the nest? - Once night comes, it'll cover and protect its egg. If attacked in this state, it'll revert back to its "mother" status and fight you until you move far enough away. If you attack it at night, and move far enough away for it to stop attacking you, it’ll become “lost” as such and retreat into itself at whatever position it was at. Stealing the egg: To steal the egg, I believe you should wait until nightfall, hit it with your torch to lead it away and go around it to take the egg. Do not, I repeat DO NOT, go near the bird again. Go in the opposite direction, otherwise it’ll sense you hold the egg and chase after you endlessly. This is not such a good thing at night (it’s how I died). Killing the bird: Same as general killing.