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About Shurlan

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  1. The tooltip regarding surface germs on dupes does not distinguish between germs on the dupes itself and germs on an atmo suit. Even when there are germs on both the number is added up and displayed as one. I therefore suggest a conditional tooltip for dupes wearing a suit to rectify this.
  2. I think it might extend to any liquid/gas that is in a pipe system.
  3. Due to how the current thermal system works, the only way to make use of the low thermal conductivity of Insulation is using the insulated version of tile/pipe/vent. For tiles and pipes the time required or the ressources needed is crazy. 400kg of Insulation needs 20 Reed Fiber, which in turn needs a full Drecko ranch at best 10 cycles to pruduce or, when using Thimble Reed, needs 6400kg of polluted water. Let's say we have our 2 steam geysers with highest output, get water from three "crude oil -> natural gas -> generator" chains and have a maxed water producing geyser. This yields an average of 2*600*2.5kg + 3*600*0.8kg + 1*600*5kg = 6480kg of water. So one tile every cycle and thats being lucky with your geysers und not using the water for anything else. I reckon on average one has about enough surpluss water for a tile every 3 cycles.
  4. Apparently not in a sufficiemt manner. The formula comes from heat conducted through a medium and for the same medium is correct, however so is your critisism that for different media their heat resistance is additive. I confess to not reading up properly. To be honest: From the in-game tooltip on thermal conductivity (which wants me to make them do it properly even more), I stand corrected, thank you for that. The fact that in my proposed system the medium with the lower thermal conductivity offers no resistance to heat flow should have tipped me off, but hindsight is 20 20. I'll change my original suggestion accordingly. Indeed, my assumption/simplification is, that thermal energy is stored in the middle of an object and therefore flows from middle to middle, at least for apparently solid objects. For pipes and similar I would go for the middle between the inside and outside surrounding. I find this to be reasonable. An alternative way is to calculate it separately for both media and then sum it up. Which the game already does since every tile gets computed separately. With your argument in mind I would state that the game overdoes the parallel flow. I vehemently disagree. Parallel flow already is taking care of by parallel computations, while perpendicular flow, for the currently available range of values for thermal conductivity all values, has an error of at least 100% when using the logarithmic average.
  5. Me too. If anything this is the bare minimum. Sure, but since the behavior doesn't change why not add it for those who do care. It really starts to break down for Insulation which basically should conduct no heat (given its thermal conductivity) but does if you build pipes, where it can matter a lot. Also if they calculate a logarithmic mean for most of the heat transfer in the game, it is all the more reason to do it properly since computationaly logs can be expensive and already rewuire branched execution for edge cases. So I would claim that the simplification actually runs slower than doing it properly would. This actually is quite realistic. Hydrogen has about 7 times the thermal conductivity of air. So 20°C hydrogen would feel like -80°C Air. (Except air moisture and convection would play a bigger role than actual heat transfer) What you describe is that the area through which the heat inside the copper travels is reduced. (Area being the cross section along the patch from one side to the other and not surface) and since the fibers are not straight from one side to the other the length/thickness increases. I meant my comment litteral. I don't understand what you mean. Changing the current system instead of adding to the old system does not keep the status quo. I disagree otherwise I would not bother making this thread. In my eyes I suggest an improvment for gamplay (planning out contraptions) and apparently performance (since they currently compute a s*** load of logs). That is the devs decision not yours or mine. The Devs can say what they think on their own . You are right in that I probably should have made this post half a year ago and not a month before release but I was complacent in hoping "It's early access, they'll fix it soon", soon never was to be. I don't feel the need to repeat myself. If the benefit is not apparent for you then there is nothing to argue about, since it would appear that your play style is unrelated to what I propose. I would just ask to not conflate "of no use to me" with "irrelevant for everyone".
  6. The system is already there. Arguably it being four cases increases complexity. You are right. However clothing has non integer meter thickness and is used in the simulation for heat transfer. Making me kind of right in the probably most pointless way.
  7. Dupes can be different distances apart than 1m, which goes for other lose objects.
  8. Its hard to abstract any further than it adhering to one formula. Inconsistency is the enemy of a nice gaming experience, at least for me... I hate it. But I get yout point of probably taking it to far. In my eyes they used different values for different materials and drive it by a physics model, kinda, with the kinda being annoying.
  9. The point of introducing and changing the current game are not the parts where it works but the ones where it doesn't. No, it being a grid of 1m does not make 1m the planck distance of the game. Precisely my reasoning. The simulation lacks information in this regard.
  10. But heat transfer over all is not. We have 4 different behaviors for 1 system: averaging, smallest tc, fitfh of heat capacity and no transfer whatsoever. Non of it explained anywhere (when does what happen) but all supposedly governed by the same values. Which does not change the fact that averaging the thermal conductivity in the other cases is nonsensical and has no counterpart in physics. Stop proclaiming the crutch as a leg. The problem is the rate at which heat flows and the current state of the game feels not reasonable at all to me. If I touch a radiator I don't have to worry about dying in seconds due to my core temperature rising to 45°C. I was not aware that the internet spreads across different universes. Joke aside, I didn't mean that everyone in their experience of the world thinks about this formular when it comes to things hot and cold, but that applying it to the game will feel right in the same way fudging can, but in a way that is consistend. Regarding insulators: If I grab a piece of copper and a marker and write "Insulator" on it doesn't become on. Insolators are insolators not because they say so but because the have low thermal conductivity. No additional calculations would be made, they would just change. If you did not look at them before, no one is going to force you to in the future.
  11. Let's start with the reason I want additional object attributes: I want to build something that involves heat transfer. (Let it be cooling the bases water, crude oil -> natural gas, or whatever else) Since the game uses scientific values (specific heat capacity, thermal conductivity) which are close to their real life counterparts (well... mostly. looking at you hydrogen). I expect the transfer of thermal energy to somewhat follow the simplified rule of "q = tc * A * l * dT * t" q: energy transferred tc: the thermal conductivity of the medium A: the area of the cross section of the medium (perpendicular to heat flow) l: the length/thickness of the medium (parallel to heat flow) dT: temperature difference t: time In-game however we have buildings that behave as if they have a fifth of their actual mass regarding heat capacity. For pipes the thermal conductivities of the pipe material and content/outside apparently gets averaged instead of using the lowest number the inverse average (in real life terms I don't even know where to start with this one) and insulated/radiant pipes do who knows what (it doesn't say anywhere). All because, presumably, otherwise the observed heat transfer in the game seems to slow. But instead of the above botch one could simply stop assuming an area of 1m² and thickness of 1m for everything. Giving every structure reasonable values for area and thickness also would make balancing easier (more values to fudge). Machinery can't dissipate heat quickly enough: Instead of mass-fudging give it a bigger area. Pipes barely interact with the environment: Make them not 1m thick. The property of insulated/radiant pipes is [redacted]: a lot thicker, has a big area. Since everyone shares the real life expirience of "q = tc * A * l * dT * t" the result automaticly will feel reasonable. Impact on game performance: None. Upon construction the properties can be multiplied together, stored and thereafter used instead of tc. Side note: Since every object in the game has it's own temperature and is not just a medium between two objects, half of the objects average thickness should be used for calculating the heat transfered, such that heat flows from core to core and not from one side to the other. Edit: Factual corrections thanks to a comment by Abt9
  12. Was that an official change or did it just happen? I can't find the change note regarding this (looked rocketry and up). It seems like they botched stuff to get the heat transfer rates they want. Since real life concepts are used but they have to balance a game they resort to averaging thermal conductivity, which is just silly (in real life that is). If area of objects and average thickness would be introduced they could turn to hearts content, without losing real life similarity. Anyway, I'm rambling. Thanks for the information. Since Insulation is an Insulator the bug still stands.
  13. I had a similar problem with an exosuit checkpoint with only one suit. Two wrangled dreckos were to be delivered through said checkpoint and in about four, five attempts they were dropped on the floor (and thereby released) shortly after being picked up. I thought it might be due to an other dupe "reserving" the only suit while the one with the drecko was on the way, so that might be related. Edit: The suit was not in use between the time of the drecko being picked up and dropped.
  14. I don't know what you mean with "marked as insulated". The pipe I'm talking about is a normal one and not an insulated pipe. The material "Insulation" in-game shows the property insulator, which as far as I understand just remarks that it has low thermal conductivity and has no further impact. There should be no averaging of thermal conductivity. If this is what the game does I might as well change the title to "game averages thermal conductivity". Furthermore in-game tooltips say that heat transfer between two objects is limited by the smaller thermal conductivity.