Mathgeekburch

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About Mathgeekburch

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  1. Huh, so it is the same effect that causes abyssalite rapid boiling water and petroleum. So is it always 5kg sweating off a tile per tick if there is at least 1 gas/liquid hotter than its melting point next to it. Or if it is surround by 4 gas/liquids hotter than its melting point, will it sweat 4 sets of 5kg per tick? Is there some method to prevent there being space for new materials, or will this always occur on a gas/liquid to a solid tile boundary?
  2. So does that mean flaking occurs at a constant rate regardless of conductivity, specific heat of gas or tile, temp difference, etc? Just as long as the gas is hotter than the melting point. Or does a higher temperature over melting point results in faster flaking? Does the number of adjacent super hot gases effect the rate? Does it only occur with gases, and not at all with liquids, solids, debris, and buildings? Also in the first link, it appears that even a single tile of gas causes the effect. Is there no way to reduce the rate outside of that, like not even cooling tiles, or would I need a liquid layer on tiles to protect them?
  3. So I saw two post talking about flaking mechanics. https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/110104-abyssolators-milk-and-flakes/ https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103877-insulation-flaking/?tab=comments But I couldn't find any more on the subject using a google search of the site. There are a few more post on metal cannons and item duplication; but I am not interested in either. I am just interested in the mechanics of flaking (only tiles, not about doors or buildings.). Like whether conductivity of a material has anything to do with it; or does it override conductivity. Are they ways to avoid it? Are there ways to enhance it (without doors)? Does it use the same equations from normal heat transfer, or does it use something different?
  4. So we are looking at about 8 giga DTU per cycle to melt the average of 1 tile per day? Or are we over producing the heat to speed it up?
  5. I like to think exploity things exist on a spectrum. Somethings are far more exploity than others. One can have a limit on how far along the spectrum they want to go; so it isn't all or nothing. Regardless I am looking at all the designs across the spectrum for this; just so someone can decide for themselves how far on the spectrum the want to go. So then you'd need to get the heat outside of debris right? I am not too sure that gas metal would be the best for that. Liquid steel has a conductivity of 80 and survives 3C under tungsten's melting point. The best gas is lead, with a conductivity of 3.5; so a pretty large difference. Then again gases expand to fill the room, so it might be useful. "cool enough to freeze tungsten"; do you mean the gas or the pool of liquid? -------------------------------------------------------- Random side question: Do you happen to know per length, how fast of a heat transfer out of normal liquid pipe made of insulation is when submerged in liquid steel, or emtombed in diamond tiles with 3600c liquid steel flowing through it? I know it is slow, but how slow is it? Is it too slow to be useful?
  6. I guess that is fairly useful for power generation. Although doesn't help me much for the pre-heating abyssalite; since the next element is in the mid 2400's. Guess 2:1 is the best I can get for 3000+.
  7. Although isn't that strait up material duplication? That always feels cheaty in a resource based game; more so than almost any other exploit. Especially when on a valuable material like tungsten. Regardless my goal of melting natural abyssalite still stands. And preheating it to a few degrees of melting point is a big part of my plan to reach that goal.
  8. 3421 c is what I kind of want. I presume you can't get hotter than that since carbon doesn't melt and freeze at the same temperature. I want to preheat natural abyssalite tiles as much as possible, before I attempt melting them. If I can get them within a few degrees of melting, that would be golden. Also a slight question with the set up shown? Can you use the heat output of one HEDD (Heat Energy Duplication Device) as the input into another HEDD? Should be able to get 4 times the heat, or 8 times if you continue again; so on and so forth. Or is there something I am missing?
  9. So I was looking at a video on a self powering natural gas heater designed that took large use of heat multiplication of crude oil going directly to sour gas (through method of the 1kg liquid pipe exploit), where the latter has a higher SHC, and I thought about using it for multiplying high temperature heat production. Now I presume something like this is already in the community at a large scale (I am out of the loop so I really don't know), so is there a specific name for it? Like Heat Multiplier; Heat Amplifier? I saw @mathmanican call one of his creations a Heat Energy Duplication Device which used a freezing melting mechanic to double heat energy(using lead). " " Is that the popular term to call these devices? What popular designs are out there currently? Anyways, I am interested in heat multiplication devices that work above the 1100c range. Specifically ones above the 3000c range. Looking at combinations of liquids and gases I think I saw 3 candidates for heat multiplication through SHC. Most obvious is running liquid crude oil at 1kg through a tungsten liquid pipe, that goes up a long shaft and at the very top I have a metal refinery outputting 3000c+ coolant that heats up the sour gas medium at the top to the same scorching temperature. The sour gas transmits the heat to the liquid crude oil so it gets above 3000c before exiting the liquid vent at the top. The super hot sour gas fills up the shaft transmitting most of the heat to the crude oil with some to spare. And then I find some way to use the spare heat energy to melt some natural ore tiles. Or slowly heat abyssalite close to its melting point; this cannot actually melt it though since this uses tungsten pipes (which melt at the same temp). In theory normal pipes made of insulation could be used to get hotter, but I don't know how long the thing would need to be to conduct enough heat, also it would likely require the gas to be super dense (I think pipes are buildings, so they should be heated faster by higher thermal mass mediums). An alternative liquid I saw was liquid salt. I need to double check but it seems that the SHC of the liquid is 0.7; while the gas is 0.88. That is a huge increase, plus if the gas condenses, you can put it back in the pipes; instead of needing to constantly produce new crude oil. It also has a far higher conductivity. Uses the same method as described with the crude oil. I also noticed molten glass and rock gas. Molten glass has a SHC of a small 0.2; but when you boil it you get rock gas with a moderate SHC of 1. So a gigantic increase even over salt. Although it does consume the glass, so you need constant production. If you decide to just melt sand without a forge; the efficiency drops because of the sand's SHC of 0.83; but you only have to heat it up to 1712.85c before you can shove it into the pipes; so you don't have quite as bad of a heat conversion as you'd expect. Alternatively you could use a glass forge, although it does delete 75% of your sand (then again you should have a lot of that with a simple ethanol pokeshell farm) and most annoyingly it needs dupe labor. Then again you don't need to worry about a liquid pump so that is a plus. I also saw that liquid steel and gas steel have a SHC difference; although no liquid pipe can survive that. There might be some way to use it, but it is above my head. I believe Mathmanician's Heat Energy Duplication Device might be able to be redesigned to use tungsten; although I don't know how it compares to these other methods. Yeah I know I can get tungsten from melting insulation pipes and have an easier time; and that this build idea already uses a lot of tungsten (technically I only need tungsten at the top where the hottest parts are); but I want to heat up those natural abyssalite tiles close to their melting point dammit.
  10. I'd call it a larger exploit than regolith melting, since the latter is an abuse of specific heat difference (something the game actively encourages exploiting) as well as requires a decent amount of infrastructure; verses using the fact that freezing occurs at 3c below the temp and the frozen product is 1.5c below the freezing temp. This is something that can literally be done to any liquid which feels a little wrong; where as the SHC mechanics require specific combinations. Regardless, do have any versions that works particularly well around or above 3430c? I was actually looking for a heat multiplier to get more heat out a metal refinery to melt things. If it works, it works; I won't complain. My alternative plan was already a pretty infamous exploit (the lack of phase change of liquids below 1kg in a pipe) to abuse shc change of inputs verse outputs.
  11. Ab-W melting setup

    Yeah, there are a few materials where the melting temperature, and the freezing temperature are different. It isn't a bug; it particularly makes liquid steel a very useful liquid with a large temperature range, without making solid steel melt as easily as copper. The other big materials that do similar is magma, liquid carbon, and molten glass. It is an effect that you can use to your advantage; but it does make it harder to get to the liquid forms of these materials. If you want liquid steel, try either using a steel kiln in a vacuum on top of mesh tiles until it melts. Or put molten aluminum into the metal refinery and then melt steel with it. Also melting abyssalite isn't a thing you should attempt mid game. It is one of those things that most people won't even attempt late game. It can be done, but it requires a lot of heat; like 470 uses of a metal refinery to produce steel amount of heat; and almost all of that heat gets deleted when the abyssalites melts. Most people would rather do multiple rocket trips than deal with that and the low conductivity.
  12. What you see as a trap for new players, I see is a resource that can be used. The massive amounts of CO2 becomes a positive if you are consuming large amounts of CO2. I like using slicksters to produce oil/petrol; under the highest efficiency conditions, only half of my CO2 mass gets turned into petrol. Meaning that if I wanted to supply a petrol generator 24/7 (mostly for the water), I'd need 2,400 kg of CO2 a day; or about 4 kg/s of CO2. Sure that is 120 tamed happy slicksters that I need to supply 1 petrol gen. But I don't find it too much a hassle to build 16 slickster ranches in a 45x45 area; where the slicksters are limited to a 3 tile wide balcony (as otherwise the pathing lag would be large); and then have overflow tank with over 600 tame glum slicksters providing another petrol generator's worth of petrol. So I now I am consuming 4,800 kg of CO2 a day. That is pretty hard to produce without an ethanol industry (size 24 ethanol distilers, 6 ethanol petrol generators, and the 2 petrol generators running on slickster pee). Besides, I like using domesticated arbor trees instead of wild. And domesticated arbor trees are water negative without the CO2 being turned into petrol. Alternatively I could turn the pdirt from the distillers into pwater using pufts and algae distillers; but I don't like dealing with pufts and I like using the Pdirt on pokeshells and sage hatches.
  13. I like going 10x10, with the hatches at the very top at one of the corner standing on top of 4 tiles, 2 support the grooming station, 1 supports the drop off, and 1 supports the feeder. The hatches only walk over 4 tiles so they get to the grooming station fast, don't provide much pathfinding lag, and are covered by the autosweeper. The room gets the 96 area needed for 8 hatches so all is good. Since hatches won't randomly jump off the cliff, I can either fill the bottom with liquids, or place storage containers on the bottom, or place machinery there. But it typically leaves a lot of empty space between the hatches and the bottom. When I want to use that, I make it a bigger size, and I add floors to hold more storage containers or machinery; and I still design it out so it is 96 tiles. Also dupes can use ladders, critters can't, useful to remember.
  14. Weren't able to get any tungsten from space missions? What about isoresin? You can convert isoresin to tungsten at about 100kg tungsten per 15kg isoresin. Requires you to make insulation, build insulation tempshift plates, then melt them since they actually have a greater than 0 conductivity. (I heard it done before, how the hell they get 3630c temperatures, idk).
  15. Also random question. Have you ever considered how space age materials impact this. A petrol or nat gas generator at 900c should be able to produce an absolute **** ton of heat (despite constantly losing heat to the fuel inputs, but I digress).