mathmanican

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Posts posted by mathmanican


  1. 4 minutes ago, TripleM999 said:

    It is/was. Quick test:

     

    2 minutes ago, suxkar said:

    the PW water does come out at precisely 40 minimum.

    These two comments seem contradictory. I'm sure you two can figure out which is right.

    I would build my generator on mesh tiles, so the building cannot interact with the ground, and liquid can flow down.  There will be a brief 0,2s tick where the outgoing water interacts with the building, insta freezes, and the building heats up more than it should, if the 40C min is right.  

    The CO2 coming out as solid does not surprise me.  There was a lot of debate the month or so before release about the changes they made, and I haven't seen any changes announced (though I have been much less active). 


  2. You can insert a thermal buffer, kept around 130C or so, beneath this overheating pump. Just place it on the far left side of the vacuum space. Keeping 1000kg/tile of steam behind some steel walls on the top and and left side, will help rapidly cool the exhaust. 

    image.png.7ead7f4ea1f4082f8bd05a97a66637e0.png

    What you are missing, next to each turbine, is something that you can actively cool for lots of cycles while waiting for the next launch. Something as small as 1 tile of high pressure steam, trapped behind walls, would do wonders at lowering the temperature of the new steam exhaust. Reinjecting 1/4 of the steam you are trying to capture will do a little to mitigate this, but that's only 500g/s per turbine, as opposed to a 1000kg buffer (so 2000 times more mass).  


  3. 3 minutes ago, TripleM999 said:

    I think, Klei indeed changed some mechanics

    If that is true, then we reintroduce tons of ways to cool your base, that are way too OP.  Seriously, if you can convert -180C NG to -180C PW (should be simple to test), then a google site search of the forums will show you all kinds of crazy ways to make massive amounts of cool stuff, at very little effort....

    Last I read in the release notes was that outputs had a minimum temperature, and then output at building temp.  If the minimum has been removed....


  4. 9 hours ago, suxkar said:

    A question: I made the heat exchanger 3 tiles wide becuase I was scared gas movement wouldn't be fast enough without the bead mechanic, do you think it would be much different if it was 2 tiles wide?

    See @TripleM999's post on gas flow that is linked above. I wonder if 1 tile wide passageways would work up/down. In @TripleM999's post he has 1 tile wide left/right channels for the SG/NG exchange. I bet you could do something like it vertically. 

    9 hours ago, suxkar said:

    it granted style points

    Always important. :) 


  5. 7 hours ago, beowulf2010 said:

    Out of curiosity, what's the point of all the unused liquid vents in your oil drop column?

    Unfortunately, @NurdRage deleted the post he made where he explained this, otherwise I'd link it. Liquid beads fall down the tube, and need something that holds lots of mass to transfer heat to them.  Temp shift plates ruin the process. So instead, you use a liquid vent as a place holder to absorb heat. Cold beads falling are heated up by this 1 by 1 heat absorber. The rising hot gas is cooled down. Every 0.2 seconds this exchange takes place, and it's extremely efficient. Essentially, the liquid vents are there to hold heat in a specific tile, without transferring it to adjacent tiles. Perfect for a liquid bead boiler. 

    13 hours ago, suxkar said:

    So, before I build this monstrosity in survival, does anyway have tips, advice or criticism?

    Have you played with bridges (wire, automation, liquid, etc) connecting the sour gas and methane regions, in addition to your plates. You clearly want the two regions to transfer heat. I wonder if adding these bridges would help you shrink the overall height by quite a bit.


  6. 37 minutes ago, Lilscratchy said:

    But isn't it kind of exploit(ish)?

    Depends on whether or not you play using ONI's actual physics engine, or want to pretend and force yourself to play the game following whatever you believe actual physics is (you can't play the game with actual physics, as there is no ideal gas law for one). Your choice. Play the game the way you want, and keep whatever rules you want to abide by. For me, I'll exploit the crap out of ONI's physics engine as much as I can. (Isn't that what we do in real life, exploit the crap out of the laws of nature to get them to do as much for us as we can.)  

    38 minutes ago, Lilscratchy said:

    due to space constraints

    I assume you meant you would have to place it at the bottom (forgot "except" at the bottom). If you want it at the top, then I see plenty of places to put it along the sides of your silo.  In all cases, you'll need a large cooling buffer (next section).

    54 minutes ago, Lilscratchy said:

    temperatures above 400 degrees

    You can use a liquid/solid buffer under the rockets (or along the sides of your silo) to absorb the huge amounts of heat. The rockets put out a constant DTU, and you can soak this up to keep temps low enough to enable the bypass pump. What I'm envisioning is a diamond/steel tile room full of >= 1000kg/tile steam to soak up the heat, directly under your rocket or along the side walls. The bypass pump can be placed next to, or under, the buffer room, so that hot gasses have to pass by this buffer (and cool down) to get to the bypass. You can easily handle the temps with petroleum. Steam turbines can keep the entire buffer room under 200C with ease, if you don't want to add extra power and have aquatuners actively cool this room. 

    There are tons of options. If the bypass is too exploity for ya, then freeze everything to solid, steam and CO2. Power is not really an issue (if it is, then build a Crude->NG boiler). Then build a buffer at the top of each silo, lined with steel and filled with anything that you actively try to keep near 0K (or whatever keeps the buffer from solidifying or breaking walls - go with super cold 40000kg/tile hydrogen gas if you want). Freeze everything that tries to leave the silo using these buffers. If any gas tries to escape the top of the the room, it will insta-freeze. Use tempshift plates and doors to extend the reach of the cooling zone so NOTHING makes it out of your chamber. No bypass used here.  If you don't like high pressure gasses, then don't use 40000kg/tile. Adjust these ideas to fit your gameplay style. 

    @Zarquan ran an experiment once to see if he could capture ALL the gas coming from space, and he did it with ethanol (not super coolant). If you don't have a surplus of supercoolant, I'm sure you could use PW and keep the buffers full of hydrogen at around -10C (enough to liquefy any steam trying to leave). If you don't want the CO2, then just let it leave.  With this approach, you just need a liquid pump at the bottom of your silo to slurp up cool water, or a sweeper arm to move away the ice. No bypass needed. Just keep your entire silo as cold as possible, at all times.

    I see that you have >=5 tiles of space between rockets, which means you can plop a steam turbine down between them, so you can enable even more aquatuner cooling of a super chilled buffer zone (between turbines). Using @Saturnus's trick for cooling steam turbines in a vacuum, you can put as many of these turbines as you need going up the walls of your silo.

    I'm sure there are many more ways to do this. :) I tend to enjoy using fluid mechanic solutions, rather than throwing power at it. There are lots of options. If/when you get one finished, please share.  I'm sure others would love to see what you've done as well as me. If you try several options, please share them all.  

     

     

     


  7. Bypass pumps might be the key. Build them a tad higher up so the temp is not as hot. They can work fine with 2 gasses. The cost is 10mg per sec of any liquid, basically nothing.

    Once the gasses are sucked from the chamber you can then manage them. You can build a natural filter with tile placement (such as a co2 lock and hydrogen/steam lock) and ignore thermium pumps. Dispose of the co2 if you dont want it or feed it to slicksters.

    • Like 1

  8. I made it way to complicated with all the automation. The only automation you see here is a timer.   This can be set up as soon as you have valves (minus the timer). Just put 1 load of 200kg of water in the room.  The pipes cannot hold it all, you'll never flood the room, no automation needed.  You could even use this as a hypothermia chamber that dupes must visit before bed (after sending your dupes into slimelung infested areas - to prevent them from getting slimelung when they wake, provide you're willing to manually toggle the door privileges).

    image.png.402b5be58a8bc3b7c413432d47bb3d38.png 

    As I have it set up above, the timer goes off every 60 seconds, to free the poor dupe for other errands as needed. If nothing is available, they empty the bottle, and then get back to work mopping. So it's a passive strength trainer that can be set and forgot (I have priorities set at 3 and 2 for the emptier and mop command  - I reserve 1 for truly despicable tasks). 

    • Like 3
    • Thanks 1

  9. 6 hours ago, Sigma Cypher said:

    with the bead pump.

    It's a bypass pump, rather than a bead pump.  The key is to set the liquid output less than 10g (so 10mg) so that you don't have to mop up anything and you still get the benefits of swapping gas diagonally upwards. 

    6 hours ago, Sigma Cypher said:

    I got a grand total of 2 attribute increases out of the gym

    If you want the gym to train your dupes, then shrink your flow rate. You can make the flow extremely small, to keep your dupes there for as long as you want. I only realized this last week, and made a post about it. Maybe you missed it. :) 

    Spoiler

     

    By having liquid fall off a ledge, rather than directly dumping it for your dupes to mop, you can set the flow as low as you want (almost - gotta make sure liquid keeps falling).  

    • Want your dupes to mop for 1/4th of each cycle, and generate enough oxygen for 3 dupes (so you want 1/3 of your colony doing strength training for 1/4th of their time)? Run the numbers to set your flow rate.  Then let your dupes mop it up. You can sense how long they mopped for, and you can control the rate at which they get new liquid. 

    Or disconnect the two ideas completely.  Oxygen product is one thing.  Strength training is another.  If you are trying to optimize PO2 production vis mopping, one dupe can basically mop for the entire colony (at 140kg/s). Do this once every few hundred cycles, and you won't even add an attribute increase. I added a new post to the link above with an example. 

    strength-gym.png

    • Thanks 1

  10. Here is a prototype of a gym. With a minipump, this could be one tile thinner. As seen right now, you can add two ladder tiles left of the bottle emptier, and a pneumatic door above, as an alternate access point, so you can build dungeons the dupes have to crawl down into to sweep for ages, and build them all side by side (role playing torture chambers). 

    stgym.png.a901d853eb7aeb21e35ca55a2e2146be.png

    1. Enable a small room for one dupe, lock out others. This makes it so dupes don't come in to constantly move the mopped water to the emptier. We only want that done once a day (at the start of the start of the shift, by putting high priority on the emptier). 
    2. Use regular water (no offgassing to deal with),
    3. Set the flow pretty low (300g/s = 180kg/cycle). This saves power. The flow can probably be much less (same minimum needed for a waterfall to function, so 116 will work) .
    4. Have the dupe pick up their mess when they are done (if you want to stop the mopping with a timer or something), or before they start (letting the shift end break the mop command). Since they can't generate more than 180kg/cycle, they can empty an entire cycle's worth of mopping at the start of the next time they mop. 
    5. Limit the total amount of water in the room, so that you can never flood the mopping tile. Or alternately, use a liquid shutoff to make sure that water won't keep on coming if no one is there mopping (a hydrosensor set to something small). You can also use the amount of total water in the room to limit the length of time they mop.
    6. Place a liquid element sensor right before the flow valve, that shuts the pnemuatic door above the mop command when there is no liquid in the pipe. This preserves the mop command.

    I figured since @nakomaru has already designated bubbles as having the mopping job, we might as well continue in that fashion. :) 

    Here is a two dupe version (same 116g/s valve setting). (Edit: This doesn't work, as the senor detects water bottles.... You can still enable two dupes to enter and mop though.)

    image.png.c6bd0db51bd080221faee9d4e8744c57.png

    This one unfortunately can result in more dupes inside. Once two dupes are mopping, the right door locks.  Dupes can leave the room going upwards. However, there is a brief moment where one dupe may enter to use the bottle emptier, and then they get stuck there in short loop (what does using the bottle emptier train? - bonus extra gym.) 

    • Like 3

  11. 8 hours ago, cezarica said:

    Yes, I need to negate the AND's gate output and at the same time need the AND's gate normal (not negated by the NOT gate) output connected to the same element I want to control, so inevitably the both ends of the NOT gate connect.

    Run the output of the AND gate into the input of an OR gate and the NOT gate you chose.  Then connect these together. Sounds like you're making an edge detector.  Search the forums for lots of posts on this. Use google's site: option for getting better search results. You'll find quite a few. 


  12. You have connected the head and tail of a not gate. This is what causes the problem.  The output of the AND gate is still red (false), but green overrides any red signal, so the green from the front of the and gate comes back. This all happens very fast.  

    You can achieve the same thin by connecting the input and output of a NOT gate anywhere. As long as no GREEN signal shows up in the line, you will get lots of flicker.  It's been like this since the gates were introduced. 


  13. This might come in handy. 

    If I needed to move one tile of bleach stone or slime out of a region, I would either

    1. dig out everything first before trying to get to vacuum, and then build walls over the entire region and then dig back in, or
    2. surround the single tile on all 4 sides, corner dig it, then use !!Priority to move it far away (that way it won't drop or off gas in transport). After this, I'd just build a solid tile in the recently dug out spot to destroy any off gassing. If I can't get access from above to corner grab it, then I'd do exactly what @Zarquan said. 
    7 hours ago, Zarquan said:

    Another solution, I build tiles to push it out of the way then wall it off, though this treatment is usually reserved for slime, as I don't like my dupes getting slimelung (even though it is essentially harmless these days).

    The petro approach will still require a small room. Otherwise, there is a small window, right after digging, where the stuff will offgas before being submerged. If you don't want to loose vacuum, then make a small room (again suggested by @Zarquan


  14. 49 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

    This approach, I will definitely use.

    It can be as simple as dropping water off a ledge at the edge of a wall.  No need to complicate it much more than that. At the cost of 1 tile of water every 5+ cycles, you could probably just leave the water there indefinitely, or have it ready to be consumed for research. 

    Now I just need a nice way to interrupt the mopping job with automation, so that a dupe doesn't get stuck there for the rest of their shift. I have a 59/1 sec timer on my manual generators, so that my dupes always go there rather than idling.  Something like that would be nice with mopping. 

    • Like 1