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Klei Bug Tracker

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Everything posted by mathmanican

  1. Haven't tested to see what lets them out. That could easily be it. Should be easy to test in sandbox. I'll let someone else post their results.
  2. They will escape out the upper left corner. You've been warned. Two tiles and 3 doors works fine too. All 8 squares must be blocked.
  3. Yep. One metal tile and 4 pneumatic doors will lock them in a 1 by 1 room. Free food forever.
  4. Depends entirely on what you plan to do. If state changes could happen in your setup, because something sits around for too long, then it is a problem. Realizing that one packet might be sitting somewhere for a long time is the key. Just design with that in mind.
  5. This junction is your main problem. Liquid come from the right and from above. You are correct that the liquid arrives at both green outflow valves at the same time, but it is impossible for both to flow into the junction at the same time. Your animation shows that the section from the aquatuner output got chosen first (have no clue why, but that's what your animation show), followed by the flow from above. So flow at this junction comes from (1) right (2) top (3) right (4) top (5) right. Each time flow comes from the "top", the aquatuner cannot accept a new packet, and so any new incoming liquid will go up the bypass. This will occur on the 4th bead of liquid (and 6th, 8th, 10th, etc., if you have more. To explore it more, open a new game, enable sandbox, fill some pipe segments with different liquids (so it is easy to see the different liquids), and then watch them go. I built one with 6 packest, and added the aquatuner. The petro and crude swap spots each time through. This swapping happens because of the 1 sec to turn on issue, as well as the junction giving preference to the flow coming from the aquatuner at the right. The salt water and water always go up (never cool off). This is because of the alternating pipe flow issue at your junction. No liquid remains in the tuner on each pass (I learned something), though this could be because the liquid never got cold enough, not sure. With only 5 segments of liquid, the first two swap spots as well, and the 4th always goes up (never cooling off). The junction I started with is your main problem. Stuff eventually got stuck, as soon as the thermosensor started activating off and on. (I dropped the temp of the warming bath where the radiant pipes are). Eventually the salt water made it out, but the brine (being a single packet) never gets to go through the tuner. After a bit, the crude and petro (having swapped a bunch of times with the salt) pulled ahead and became a group of 2, with the other three liquids bunching up. I'm guessing all kinds of weird things will happen if I let this run several cycles, till eventually all 5 liquids are separated by 1 blank spot. Here's where at I'm at after a while. Note that neither the brine nor salt water will ever trigger the tuner to go on, as you have to have two consecutive blobs to trigger it. Eventually, the leading 3 blobs separated, and now the two in the lead have no chance EVER to combine with the last 3. Seems janky. The junction is the problem.
  6. Looks like there are two times that the liquid heads up, instead of through the aquatuner. The first bead that heads up is because it takes 1 sec for the aquatuner to turn on. Also, there is already something in the tuner, as your sensor turned the tuner off. So the leading bead will not get cooled. The second bead that heads up is because you have two pipes connecting without a bridge on the output side. As such, the aquatuner output has to pause to allow a bead to come down, hence it gets backed up for a second. Good news, the leading bead changes each time. Bad news, the second to last bead never swaps location with any other bead, so it will never get cooled.
  7. Mop the liquid off the base of the tree on the left. I'm guessing that is the issue. Any break in airflow will cause the waterfall to stop.
  8. Agreed. This bug will pretty much be death to any build that uses doors to start/stop heat transfer. Death might be too strong, but you'll loose a lot of heat having to continuously reheat the metal door... Sad day.
  9. This is probably a consequence of the "fix" to the metal cannon. You can't melt doors for free metal anymore. Instead, you can temp reset things. So I guess this is the new water sieve. There are still lots of other ways to destroy heat as well.
  10. You need 10g or more. Any less gets deleted. See any of the of the following for more details than you may ever want to know.
  11. Suck out the hydrogen till the entire bottom layer is chlorine. Then add the hydrogen back. Once the bottom is all chlorine you can pack as much hydrogen in as you want.
  12. The theoretical max is 250kg/s (with a viscosity rating of 50kg/0.2s). I love it. Nice work. Maybe I should return to magically creating extra heat via phase shifts. Life has been pretty busy for the last 7 months. The next 5 won't be nearly as crazy.
  13. Since water locks are 1 pt, I'd say th he same 1 element rule applies. Of course you could also just claim 0 pts for any one element per tlie rule as it is a fundamental principle of the ONI universe for now. Abuse it to the max for optimal play! To each their own.
  14. Looks like you're not familiar with the "save/reload" after selecting what you want. For example, if you want to get lots of pacus (like 72), then reload till you get a Pacu. Then, once you do, select it, and save the game after the pacus arrive, but before the package disappears. Reload, and collect the pacus again. Save/Reload and repeat 9 times, netting 72 pacus..... This one might be +10 or more.
  15. I'm with ya. Maybe a configurable delay so instant is still an option.
  16. Perfect time to return to the game. Mwahaha
  17. It would not surprise me if this bug is related to @Saturnus's heat exchange observations that start on page 3 of this thread. Lots of really weird stuff happening.
  18. Build a few in sandbox. Play with them. Both issues affect the results. One tile is sub optimal as pressures dance around a lot and sideways shenanigans is not yet predictable. If you can fully predict it. Please share. I summon @Blazing Falken.
  19. Here's one more build. I think this one gets more than the theoretical max of 567ish (that you mention in your vid), though I'd have to do some serious stress testing to verfiy that claim. I'm getting over 600W periodically, though it fluctuates between 540 and 620ish right now with about 20kg/tile in the room. Assuming side-ways shenanigans is the real issue, then this build works in reverse. The high mass tiles are on the right (above the crude). Those also happen to be the cool tiles. So when temps swap around, you get cool temps overtaking low mas tiles, and high temps overtaking high mass tiles. Gets you extra power for free. The lower the pressure, in the room, the greater the difference in mass between tiles on the right and left, which yields more bonus power from temp swapping shenanigans. I dropped the pressure down to 4kg/tile, and now I'm getting this. (ignore the overheat issue. It occured from an intermediate step, but isn't an issue now). The 705W is not constant, as it fluctuates quite a bit as the side-ways shenanigans has it's fun. Rather than stress test it for 50 cycles, I decided to do a race. Which build can fill 12 batteries first?
  20. The "fix" above isn't perfect. The tile above the vent is the coldest and fluctuates greatly in mass, and occasionally plays shenanigans with the tile left of it. I'm getting around 500W with that set up, with 400kg of steam in the chamber. In your vid, with that single tile deleted, the thing starts and stops repeatedly. The single tile left of the vent gets things going, and raises quite high in temp (though not all the way to 555W). The liquid option provides super fast heat transfer (as you get a double bonus for liquid-liquid transfer). The more equalized the temps, the less likely you'll encounter significant sideways shenanigans.
  21. Well, it might not be exactly a "swap" temperature issues. It's not too hard to recreate. I started with 10000kg of steam at 700K. I'm pumping in 1kg/s liquid on the right. Notice how 5kg of newly created steam caused 10000kg to drop over 10K. A few moments later, another 5kg of steam caused the temp drop to 679K. How did 5kg of liquid, at any temp, even alter the temp of 10000kg of steam at all. It's shear insanity. Can we do this in reverse, using large amounts of liquid with small globs of gas? I tried several things, but was unable. The above idea is hopefully enough to help you track it down. It definitely seems to be a side-side swapping issue. I can think of a way to fix this issue for turbines. Just prevent the cold steam from transferring heat sideways. @Tonyroid, try using the f4 layout to see what is happening. The material overlay is very useful, and I didn't see you use it at all in your video. The tempshift plates help because they get the temps closer together faster, hence preventing as much sideways shenanigan transfer. Maybe that's what I'll call this bug - "Sideways heat transfer shenanigans." The liquid approach works because the liquid comes in and displaces the crude left. On the next tick, the liquid instantly combines with the steam above (you can see the contents raise 2kg if you are on slow speed). If you enable the material overlay, you can see this all very well.
  22. Hi @Tonyroid and @biopon. My initial thoughts on this were @Lifegrow's comment about the mesh tile. It's definitely not that. Here is what I've observed (or my best guess). Every so often, two adjacent (left-right) tiles with the same element will swap temperature, without correctly combining mass. I'm not sure how often, nor what causes it, though I'm sure we can figure it out. Why does this cause the problems? Simple, the 2kg liquid water dripping in will transform to steam (often in several tiles). The newly converted steam does not immediately combine with the existing steam, and it takes a bit to raise to the correct temp. The temp swapping can cause 400kg of steam to drop almost 10C, instantly, while less than 500g of steam raises 10C. Kinda insane. The higher the pressure, the more lost heat. First hypotheses (things to build experiments with): This requires a liquid-gas change to recreate reliably (for now), but can probably work with any liquid. Why? You have to have something keeping the gasses at widely different masses. Liquids push gas sideways very easily. A door compressor of some sort might be able to cause the reverse to happen (heat small bits of gas, and then combine them with large cooler bits). The swapping happens on certain ticks of the game (gonna build a tick counter with liquid to find the exact ticks). I'm currently building experiments to isolate, and reproduce reliably, this phenomenon. I've already witnessed it happen several times. If I can get it isolated perfectly, and it doesn't require liquid-gas phase changes, then the bug can be used in both directions (cool stuff, or heat stuff). And then we wait for a fix. It is definitely a bug. To get it fixed, we've got to isolate it, recreate it, report it, and then unfortunately wait....
  23. I posted about temp averaging and eating less than 2K steam, back when the new turbine came out. I also built a plan (Nov 2018), long before the new turbine came out, to circumvent this issue. All of these builds have been labeled as exploits by the community (no surprise). The November 2018 build left open the two sides, because people didn't like "port blocking". The new turbine reduced inflow when you block ports, so it's not really a problem. Being able to cool stuff way down to close to 100C was posted long ago. What I like, @Saturnus, about your recent posts on this topic are the recognition that you can greatly increase the temp of the material that comes in on one side of the turbine, provided you are willing to balance it on the other side. With 3 ports taking in 100C steam, you can get really hot steam through one port. This I have not been doing at all, but cooling stuff well below 125C I've been doing for quite a while (and stopped posting about it basically after the first few days it came out - due to exploit haters...) Or, you can trickle in tiny amounts of super heated steam to one vent, and let 3 other vents massively cool stuff below 125C. Or you don't have to trickle anything in. There are lots of options. Thanks for sharing. @Saturnus, I have enjoyed following your builds on the discord channel. It's great to see you are quite active over there.