• Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

 Content Type 




Klei Bug Tracker

Game Updates

Hot Lava Bug Reporter

Posts posted by AndreyKl

  1. Slight update:

    Cycle 1500 on Arboria (and a 'funny' notification about pet 'rats'). The biggest issue so far: lack of clay/ceramics (using deodorizers to generate clay). Between, pips, ridiculous amount of water/pwater/salt water, huge amount of Lead and liberal usage' of steam generator the game was disappointingly easy.

    1. Pips - way to powerful, I use zero farms, a lot of food goes to waste. At least in previous games I needed to maintain farms, make sure I don't overheat those by accident e t c, in this game, even if some plants don't grow, I simply don care with how many I got without even trying...
    2. Liquids - I have a ridiculous amount of various liquids in form of multimple geysers/vents. Access to oxygen as result is not an issues.
    3. Lead - I'm not sure what to feel about this one. From one point, I like not having to process a lot of resources, from another I lost all restrains in terms of building cables and tiles...
    4. Lack of germs - in previous games at least slimelung was posing some challenge. I had two zombie spore sources, but those are trivial to avoid.

  2. On 31.08.2019 at 7:38 PM, Sasza22 said:

    A bit bigger than just the vent but more controllable and reliable.

    I mostly agree, but mechanical vent that can be closed (preferably via automation, but even manual one will do) will be really convenient. The only way to disable vents currently is either to have shutoff/valve before them or to deconstruct vents completely, neither are convenient even if they can be made to work for most cases. Most machines can be disables, vents can not.

  3. 53 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

    I got a cooling solution and a killing room.

    Nice setup, never considered that we can force hatches to cook themselves...

    But I meant usage of shove voles for cooling... I did use hatches for 'cooling' at some point) And I'm not sure how hatches provide cooling in this case? Is their mass sufficient to truly provide cooling or do they eat output of the volcano before suiciding?

  4. On 28.08.2019 at 9:19 PM, Yoma_Nosme said:

    The amount of animals is enough to freeze your game way before serious cooling of the base would appear

    That's not entirely true.

    • Critters usually halve mass they consume, so if you feed hot ore to hatch you don't only get rid of ore, you also get rid of heat. (I was feeding my volcano's output directly to hatches and they were perfectly fine consuming 1000C+ ore)
    • Critters output their 'products' at their body temperature (coal from 'volcano' processing was cool enough for me to use, also I was feeding molten slickers 30C CO2 and got 120C petroleum as result... a noticeable heating)
    • Some critters have significant mass input and output (hatches can consume 140kg/cycle), which is enough of a difference (70 tiles worth of oxygen can be cooled)

    It is entirely possible to set up a loop where a single critter will consume hot ore and will provide cooled output. The problem is - how to use it. You will have to carefully measure what, where and when you are feeding to your critters to not raise their internal temperature and get cooled output.

    P.S. Shove vole can consume 4.8t/cycle, so in theory they are extremely efficient for cooling or heating purposes (i.e, feed it 10t at 200C, get 5t at 100C, or whatever body temperature it has). But I doubt anyone will use Shove voles for cooling since you need both the critter and the mass for it to consume, both might need to wait till player reaches surface and by that time player has steel and likely plastic to build a turbine.

  5. Suggestion:

    Automated Vent that can be disabled by logic and can be set to any 'max pressure' value up to 5Kg.


    1. Normal vents do not work reliably in certain environments, for example my normal 2kg vent overpressured my base to 3kg, because small packets of carbon dioxide were passing by very often (at least I think it was the cause, oxyferns don't produce that much oxygen and neglectable amount of polluted oxygen was converted). Having externally controlled vent will fix the issue
    2. We obviously can use controlable valves, but they are not ideal for a number of situations (a bit of gas will get to vent either way and they need infrastructure to work and I had to deconstruct vents quite a few times because they can't be turned off)
    3. There are situations where player needs finer control or/and reaction speed. Or at least player can come up with such situations)
    4. I'm fairly sure this is easy to implement for noticeable benefit (flexibility).
    5. 2Kg vents to 20Kg vents is too much of a jump

  6. 2 hours ago, DarkMaster13 said:

    Gas vents contain a max of 1 kg per section, which would be 15 kg in the 3x5 space of the gas reservoir. 

    Actually 2kg, however it still has couple benefits over a room with normal vent (like not needing walls or power), so it acts as very decent buffer.

    There is second vent with 20kg max pressure, it wins ~2 times over tanks in terms of capacity per tile, but you still can place tank in gas storage room and room still needs walls. And door pump wins over everything else (I have a nat gas room door-pumped from geo-vent with over 50kg of gas per tile and it keeps growing).

    From my point of view current tank is fine as is. However I won't mind smaller version with smaller capacity and a 'full' signal). Or tanks' capacity being depended onto material.

    P.S. There are ways to trick vents to get higher pressure, but  personally I find that to be too cheaty, at least door pumps work roughly like they would in real world (sans having pressure limit)

    On 13.08.2019 at 1:52 AM, frogglebunwich said:

    you could store the same gas using a pipework snake to fill an area 10x15

    That's one huge snake) Not really practical, you can set up door pump with 'unlimited' storage in much smaller space. 

    On 13.08.2019 at 1:52 AM, frogglebunwich said:

    should handle more like 150t

    Having such high capacity is not practical, it takes way too long to empty. 150t will take 40 in-game cycles to fill or empty.

    On top of that, if you decide to move 150kg tank you will get an 'ear popping' area, if you decide to move 150t tank you whole base might get over pressurized. Not safe for new players and not easy to move in this regard.

  7. P.S.

    52 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

    i'm saying that what you proposed is the same as just slapping down some basic storage bins and sweeping to those, then handling again to the dispenser.

    In OPs post there is a bug report, in there user posted basic compactor system (second comment): high priority compactor, low priority dispenser, and it doesn't work, however that system use 'accessible' storage, so its a bit different case.

  8. 34 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

    I don't think you're reading what i'm saying. You're proposing to over-engineer with a smart compactor/and gate logic - i'm saying that what you proposed is the same as just slapping down some basic storage bins and sweeping to those, then handling again to the dispenser.

    1. Dispenser won't stop until storage is empty which is the problem, this system stops it. Dispenser does not respect storage priority, so even if storage is of higher priority than dispenser, dispenser still empties storage. OP asked for a system that leaves 20t inside storage and rest goes to dispenser. Do you have a better suggestion of stopping dispenser before it consumes all ore? Normal storage bit+dispenser will result in storage bin being completely emptied leaving no sandstone for dupes to build with.

    47 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

    then just dropping it all on the floor to be swept again

    2. I might have misunderstood this part when I read it first time. According to OPs requirements, dispenser won't be dropping ore to be 'swept again', ore will be dropped into hole where dupes can't access it. Aka: early quantum storage. Dupes will just collect tons and tons of ore under dispenser and ore will stay there. (not that this part is important… there are a number of ways to implement this system)

    34 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

    I was trying to explain dupe logic to you, but it may be best if you just go and do a little tinkering yourself.

    How is this related to dupe logic? The problem remains even with sweeper - dispenser does not respect storage priority, thus empties everything.

  9. 11 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

    But in that case you're handling materials twice.

    Thats the same as just sweeping everything to some high priority sweep only compactors nearby the dispenser, then just dropping it all on the floor to be swept again. Doesn't seem like you'd achieve any bonus to using this high tech new equipment ;) 


    1. Compared to dispenser by itself:

    - Dupe that moves 1t of sandstone to dispenser from area 500 tiles away will have to travel 5000 tiles, because dupe will have to do job 5 times (5*(2 directions*500)).

    - Dupes that moves 1t of sandstone to compactor 500 tiles away and than from compactor to dispenser travels 1000 tiles of first trip + 30-100 tiles of 5 trips from compactor to dispenser. So having a compactor is more efficient time wise and dupes rarely mine less than 1t of material (usually more), trained dupes lift 1t on average. That's a lot of a bonus and the more material your dupe can carry in one setting the more of a bonus you will get.

    2. This suggestion was not about efficiency but about solving issue OP is having (aka no sweepers, but I need a buffer).

    P.S. If you happen to have 153kg of sandstone somewhere, dupe will still deliver 200kg to dispenser from compactor, but this part can be improved, like: disable dispenser when storage is at 15t, enable at 20t, so that dupes will be encouraged to optimize.

  10. 1 hour ago, Lifegrow said:

    Sadly thats not how it works. A dupe will see the job for "Sweep item into dispenser" and will only attempt to pick up the maximum that the dispenser can hold at that exact moment.

    They won't be intelligent and think "oh, there's a compactor nearby that can hold the rest of this material, so i'll pick up excess and kill two birds with one stone...."

    Dispenser will be full, so dupe won't see the "Sweep item into dispenser" job, only "sweep to compactor" job. 

    Example: we have a compactors with 9.9t of sandstone, and dispenser which is full, but not dropping (because compactor is blocking dispenser). Now, you mark 1t of sandstone for sweeping (or pick it up automatically), dupe goes long way to the mining area, picks up 1t, goes long way to compactors, delivers sandstone. Now compactors are at 10.9t. Compactor changes state of dispenser, dispenser starts dropping, dupes go to compactor and deliver from compactor to dispenser, which is a very small journey. Eventually compactor drops below 10t and blocks dispenser again.

    There still will be a chance for a dupe to try delivering 200kg from afar to unblocked dispenser, but it can be avoided as well (like locking a dupe with compactor and dispenser or by confining your cook to base and forbidding anyone else but cook access to dispenser), but it might work right as is with right priorities (if job of delivering to compactor is higher than job to delivering to dispenser, dupes should first deliver to compactor and then from compactor to dispenser). 

  11. On 18.08.2019 at 3:48 PM, calibayzone said:

    Pumps can survive submerged in a too-hot liquid for a while before giving out, pumping several tonnes in the process. The liquid can be stored in vacuum liquid reservoirs without heating them.

    If I remember correctly, there are mini-pumps, they have same 'pump area' as normal pump and as result you can pump out all gases, install a mini-pump over liquid and mini-pump will pump liquid without touching liquid. On the down side, it will eventually overheat from own heat generation, but it will last much longer than normal pump (not important if setup is temporary and there might be ways around that implement 'cooling cycles' where you isolate mini/normal pump from liquid in some way, pump gas in, cool liquid-pump, pump gas out)

  12. On 18.08.2019 at 5:12 AM, abud said:

    This time I want to store 20t sandstone in a storage bin and put excess sandstone in the hole.

    Dispenser drops only once it has signal, so: place smart compactor, connect signal output of smart compactor to automatic dispenser (through And gate? depends onto you system), set smart compactor to emit signal when full (or better - half-full, see below). Result: when compactor is full sandstone will be dropped, when compactor is not full dupes will store sandstone in dispenser first, but dispenser won't be emptied and as result the rest of the sandstone will go to compactor.

    The biggest issue with such system is that it moves ore by 200Kg, yet trained dupes can move a lot more mass around, so:

    1. I wouldn't recommend setting compactor to emit at full, better to use some low value, like 10t and low priority and set up a secondary normal compactor nearby with lower priority and rest of the mass, this way if dupes decide to transport 1t of sandstone, they will be able to (because second compactor still has 10t to go), instead of moving only 200Kg to top it.

    2. Compactor to dispenser still is limited to 200kg, which means more running for dupes, this will need sweeper earlier or later, but having sweeper means that you can build more energy efficient system, so this suggestion is temporary at best. But since there is no more permanent thing than temporary, use at your own discretion)


    On 18.08.2019 at 5:12 AM, abud said:

    This time I want to store 20t sandstone in a storage bin and put excess sandstone in the hole.

    P.S. to clarify, do you mean a hole as 'not accessible to dupes' or 1-2 tile deep one, that will still be accessible? Second case probably will need two compactors. I assume it is the first, since otherwise you won't need a 20t storage nearby.

    • Thanks 1

  13. 14 hours ago, SpreadsheetGamr said:

    If it sends, would it send green when it's empty or full?  See, if you do one, then the other state is not measurable, which is a problem.

    I had a couple situation where 'automated tank' that works identically to Smart Storage would have been very usefull.

    Example A, Output: I had a "Slush gazer->Metal Refinery->Insulated Tank->Water sieve->water storage" early setup. It worked excellent for small orders, but failed miserably for large ones: the problem is that "Water sieve" is very slow so after each Refining operation it takes some time to filter out pwater from tank and so hot pwater stays in pipes and refinery, heats up surroundings. A "smart tank" that reports green signal when water is below some level would have solved the issue very well - turn off refinery when no space in tank. Obviously there are workarounds, and better setups, but I think this option still counts. P.S. later I just started pumping oil from my steam turbine setup to the refinery and dumping heated one back (turbine started working non stop)

    Example B, Rationing: if we need exact amounts of liquids and gasses (like steam for rockets or coolant for refinery) we can use automated valves and pipes, like: place 10 pipes, valve on each side, open input, close output, wait till it fills up, close input, open output... Such setups are possible, howhever they have a number of issues: 1. setup doesn't distinguish miniscule amounts, so it can't accurately judge that there is exactly 10kg of liquid in this specific pipe, only 'there is roughly 100'. as result using such setup for rationing 'tile values' is very hard to achieve. 2. precision. since setups can's distinguish 1kg from 10, it can misfire. 3. speed - it waits to colelct liquid/gas prior to sending it further and some setups have to work slower, like 2kg/s to achieve needed values 4. size... and Automated/Smart liquid/gas tank would fix all/most of these issues, like sending exactly 999kg of water or 690Kg of gas

    Example C, Smart buffer. Sometimes we want to either have a reserve of fuel for generator or to switch something off when generator is running low, so we place a smart gas tank, it collects, lets say 50Kg of hydrogen and after that reroutes the rest to freezing chamber. Or opposite - when ethanol tank is running low, we turn on backup power source

  14. 1 hour ago, bzgzd said:

    I made a video about this problem

    Thanks, this explains quite a lot of problems I had. Also of note: dupes ignore priority assigned to items they need to sweep and instead act based on priority of the storage (which is stupid and problematic if you need to urgently pick up this specific item)

    P.S. A shame we can't at least switch input and output modes for storages, like input: sweep only/no sweep/storage exchange/any/none and output: storage exchange/tasks/none, would go a long way towards better inventory organization. Same should go for prioritis, storing and input priorities should be separate, so that dupes will sweep to specific storage due to high 'sweep only' input priority, then extract en masse to other storage with higher storing priority.

    • Like 1

  15. 15 hours ago, Nebbie said:

    Those kinds of maneuvers (bi-elliptical transfer and gravity assist) actually make the trip more fuel efficient but slower;

    It goes both ways. Lower orbit has lower speed yet significantly lower orbiting period, as such it can be used to reach, for example other side of the planet far faster than staying on high orbit will allow (when you want to be faster to reach something on other orbit you deselerate to go lower, then accelerate again once you are close enough, the lower your orbit, the faster you reach your 'destination', but fuel sometimes limits how low you can go). Similar for gravity assist - it depends onto circumstances, can be used to save fuel or to reach target faster. Either way, more fuel still means faster travel (as long as mass stays same).

    Upd: Scenario in line with ONI

    In case we are in asteroid field, and have 2 asteroids on similar orbit, asteroid A ahead of B, to reach A from B we have to lower orbit first, the more we lower it (not indefinetely obviously) the faster we will reach optimal intersect with A and then we increase orbit back to actually intersect. If we want to reach B from A, we do the opposite - we increase orbit (and speed) to go slower, wait until 'intersect' point then decrease orbit back to intersect.

    Basically, in between asteroid on similar orbits: the more fuel we got, the more we can change orbit, the faster we move.

  16. On 31.07.2019 at 9:36 PM, Nebbie said:

    To talk a moment about why better rocket engines don't get you places faster in real life:

    In most cases it is still possible to make trip shorter if you have fuel to burn (ex: by adding some low orbit in between or by using that fuel for acceleration maneuver via some other large stellar body).

    6 hours ago, DarkMaster13 said:

    Space research is boring and unrewarding.  Mostly they're just things you have to research before you can get the actually useful stuff out of your rockets.

    +1 also would have been nice if there were some more 'space' researches (ex: rockets would have benefited from industrial rail storage for unloading; heat syncs that 'exchange heat' with machinery that is built above them, despite there not being atmosphere, would have been very useful in space)

  17. 16 hours ago, Ipsquiggle said:

    Puft temperature ranges widened and made unique per species.

    I hope they won't start dying off now, like pacu do... Pacu in cold (6C-9C)/hot(30C-34C) water occasionally give birth to tropical/gulp and they freeze/overheat to death. Thus population slowly reduces.

    16 hours ago, Ipsquiggle said:

    Automation ports show their descriptions when hovered while building an automation wire

    Wow! I'm going to assume that we no longer need to wonder, what that port on the cockpit do)

    16 hours ago, Ipsquiggle said:

    Tweaked skill names and descriptions

    Can we get couple more dupe names please?

  18. On 25.07.2019 at 2:50 AM, DarkMaster13 said:

    The lack of gold is a serious issue in the late game though, as alternatives are extremely limited.

    From [Game Update] - 357226: 

    • Added two new meteor showers, one with Copper meteors, and one with Gold meteors.

    I think this solves the issue)

    P.S. My 'Geoactive' map is ridiculous, gold, copper, magma and gold volcanoes are present, and I already stopped counting cool slush geysers.

  19. On 28.07.2019 at 7:41 AM, Nebbie said:

    gating things to steel is just crazy.

    Well, steel definitely takes a while to produce and sometimes to set up... lets just say that on current map single turbine setup is the only one that currently use steel aquatunners and I probably won't be building new ones any time soon.

    P.S. Nature preserve is a bit overpowered. It is not that hard to find 4 natural plants together so I had instant +6 morale for all my dupes.

    Would have been much better with morale bonus that depends onto plant variety, size, e t c

  20. 13 hours ago, abud said:

    What are you trying to do? Make them rest in medical bed? Or you want to cure someone else? Screenshot at least will help.

    I meant this:


    This is medical bed (triage cot), so tooltip is clearly wrong - it doesn't assign skills. It should be something like "In perfect health" or "has no injuries".

    Also I feel like all those medicines should be applied while on the triage cot, not eaten personally, and shouldn't have immediate effect.


    P.S. Something is clearly wrong with sweep errands, I have sweep only free storage that accepts all seeds, seed with yellow alert sweep errand, and nobody picks the seed up.

    • Like 2

  21. I'm playing Arboria now (cycle ~200):

    • First 50 cycles. Were slow, annoying, but not hard in any way (but I expect unexperienced players to die since they won't know not to print dupes). Pips+Oxyfern solved part of early oxygen problem, but I had to limit myself to 3 dupes and fast track towards rust deoxidizer and rust (the slow part, because 3 dupes).
    • 50-150 cycle. Expanded dupe count to 6 over this period. Slight food problem, at first solved with farm, then with pips. Spent dozen cycles getting to fossils and then some time producing steel. By the end of cycle 100 I had somewhat functioning "cool steam geyser" to oxygen conversion. Found 1 cold slush geyser and one salt water geyser. Byt the end of cycle 150 my electrolyzer had aquatuner based cooling and was running without issues.
    •  150+ found 2 more cold slush geysers O_O. Preparing for crab and dreko farms. Sufficient to say, that I don't expect any oxygen or overheating issues due to amount of cold polluted water.

    Estimate: Slightly challenging start. Easy mid game. I expect it to be frustratingly easy late-game, may be sans coolant production.

  22. Bug with invisible sand (sorry, no time now to open new topic):


    Potential scenario:

    • Have a ladder in salt water
    • Have unexcavated sand above ladder
    • Dig up until sand falls onto ladder

    Two more separate bugs:

    • I built a medical bed and when I hover over dupes in the list tooltip says that dupe is "ineligible for this skill". That is absolutely unhelpful)
    • When my dupes were ill with hypothermia, heat stroke and food poisoning, I could not assign them to medical bed (both in proper room with table and toilet and standalone). But not sure if it is a bug, mechanics might have changed without me noticing...

  23. On 24.07.2019 at 2:11 AM, Junksteel said:

    I'm having trouble with very simple pathfinding and had a missing tile under the grill that clearly wasn't missing. Anyone experiencing weird things with the update?

    Got some odd behavior with dupes refusing to sweep specific seed even under yellow alert (storage was available and had free space), I had to force storage to yellow alert to force the seed in, but behavior got fixed by itself later.

    On 24.07.2019 at 1:12 AM, wronny said:
    • Desalinating 1t Salt Water → 930 kg Water + 70kg Salt

    Thanks for the info. Is it correct to assume that boiling is identical?