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Water is too viscous


Moondrake
  • Branch: Live Branch Version: Windows Pending

Water is not flowing correctly on the ground or on tiles. It is too viscous and it actually piles up. We can't even make a water lock anymore because the water won't flow into adjacent tiles. Attached are images if a water lock that contains 1 kiloton of water in each of three tiles, yet it won't flow into the fourth tile. I don't know if this is just a problem with water or if all liquids are doing it, but liquids don't behave like this.

 

Water1.thumb.jpg.e4ee16b9db6b5e0871fae77c71ffa33d.jpgWater2.thumb.jpg.700b69df4e7ca005a6117331fe351db7.jpgWater3.thumb.jpg.e12bbb8fbb2e9df2889443c5340205a0.jpg


Steps to Reproduce
This is a problem with water everywhere. There aren't really any steps you have to take to make it behave incorrectly.

Status: Pending

This issue has not been confirmed by a developer yet.


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.... ....

Browsing through random bugs i couldn't help but respond to this...
 

Water not flowing down aside...

The water climbing up the wall is an actual real life phenomenon known as the meniscus effect.

wss-property-meniscus-reading_0.jpg?itok

It has a stronger attraction to the side of the container than it does itself.

 

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Could you check the gas on the right tile and average air pressure level on the right side?

Some CO2 may have nowhere to go and try so hard to occupy that cell.

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10 hours ago, Ozcuraz said:

Could you check the gas on the right tile and average air pressure level on the right side?

Some CO2 may have nowhere to go and try so hard to occupy that cell.

That's what I think too, since it looks darker in that spot. Of course water should put gases aside, but well it's not easy to simulate all of this with little processing power I guess. :)

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There was some CO2 there and removing it caused the water to enter the space, but shouldn't a liquid displace a gas? It's also interesting to note that when I built a tile in the spot to move the CO2, it was destroyed rather than being displaced. And how are we supposed to keep CO2 from entering the space again if it is (apparently) heavier than liquids?

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it's not that CO2 is heavier. the movement for gasses and liquids are done in a first order system kind of way.

water > pushes the CO2, and fails cause the CO2 can't go anywhere
water doesn't push the CO2 and  thus pushes the O2 in a chain reaction it only exerts a force on the CO2

CO2 > doesnt push up cause it's fine where it is.
CO2 can't exert enough force to displace the O2 so it stays on the spot.

if the water is already there the CO2 won't push the water away.
(with the exception when a dupe walks by and releases it's CO2 content.)

bassically it's ONI physics I don't think anything will be done about this.

 

 

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Liquids are magical in this game.  It tends to reach upward, especially if there is an object (like a tile) above it.  Check out these snapshots currently existing in my game.  In the first, the bottom row of water is really full (999kg), but in the second, the polluted water is about 84kg per square, and the clean water above is only 400g.  First picture, I cannot explain.  But the second is due to the game design.  Since gases and liquids don't mix in this game, they cannot occupy the same square.  So the polluted water gets the bottom square, and the clean water gets the square on top of it.  Makes no sense how 400g of clean water is drawn to fill the whole tile though, or why the polluted water doesn't "bunch up" and let the clean water have it's own bottom row tile.  The third picture shows tonnes of oil refusing to drain, which since it doesn't change to natural gas when you boil it anymore, I guess that's not a bad thing, or I'd have thousands of tonnes of sour gas to deal with.  And the last is an oldie but goody from the CU days, although I doubt it's been fixed.

magic water1.jpg

magic water2.jpg

oil refuses to drain.jpg

Oxygen Not Included - interresting physics.jpg

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@Misca: In ONI, only one thing can occupy a tile at a time. When a bit of liquid is in a tile it occupies the entire tile and when the tile above is occupied the liquid appears to fill the entire tile because it can't contain anything else. It isn't due to some 'reaching up' mechanic. It's odd, but it is something we can understand and work with. Liquids mysteriously piling up isn't.

@Moonshade: I wouldn't have reported this if liquids had always behaved like they do now, but liquids used to flow better and liquid locks used to work fine. Something was changed in the model and now liquids are behaving in odd ways.

Duplicants are one of only a few mobile objects that are more than one tile high. To simplify things, the model probably tracks a single location for all of these objects, and the best location to track for duplicants would be their feet since it makes it very easy to determine whether they have something to stand on. I haven't been able to definitively tell whether dupes exhale when submerged or enveloped by an unbreathable gas (I don't think they do). They do inhale when standing in a puddle or when their feet are in an unbreathable gas so the model seems capable of determining that their heads are in a breathable gas while their feet are not. One solution to this 'immovable gas' problem might be to have dupes exhale into the tile occupied by their heads rather than the tile occupied by their feet (as they currently do). This would prevent liquids from being displaced by CO2 when a dupe was standing in a puddle.

Frankly, I'm amazed that all of this stuff works as well as it does but that doesn't mean their model doesn't need to be tweaked a bit.

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Moondrake, I did say the same thing - "Since gases and liquids don't mix in this game, they cannot occupy the same square."  However, the "reaching up" phenomenon does exist.  Look around your map.  You will see many instance of liquid in the open on the ground, and based on what percentage of 1000kg exists, the square will be filled approximately that percentage.  If, on the other hand, there is a surface above that square, the liquid will reach up and touch the bottom of that surface, even if there is very little volume.  This has scared me more times than I can count, as I thought I had a major flood, when in fact it was just a tiny bit of water filling the whole gap.  Take a look at the draining reservoir picture I included above.  At the bottom, you can see a thin layer of water.  However at the top, you can see where the water reached up, sealing off the left corner, making a physically impossible, very highly compressed air bubble.  This happens all the time and has stymied water level sensors, flooding my base on numerous occasions.  My second picture though, really has me baffled.  That is a static pool of water.  There is nothing draining into it to produce that tentacle reaching to the sky.  I just checked, and dozens of cycles later, it still looks like that.

I too am amazed how well things work.  But given the number of well documented bug reports, I am disappointed that so many of these issues are not being addressed because of the focus on pumping out more ill-conceived and buggy content.  It would be different if we didn't have hundreds of hours invested in some of these games and to have hours of "work" ruined by a bug.  There are times when I think I need a massage table more than my duplicants.

  • Haha 1

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