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Wasted Liquids And Gases


kindlesmith
  • Pending

*ported over from my steam post "Electrolizers and Valve Issue?"*

 

So I've taken a keen interest in this little project and stumbled onto something quite informative.
There seems to be an error in the code.


Electrolizer.: converts 1kg water per second into oxygen.
Liquid Pump: pushes 10kg of water per second into pipe.
Valve: you can manage how much water goes through it.

10kg of water goes into the electrolizer, but only 1kg of water gets used. The rest disappears into oblivion. Should you limit the amount of water that passes through a valve, only the amount you want comes out, the rest disappears.
Why this doesn't seem to be deliberate is when you control how much liquid goes through the pipes by using multiple Liquid Vents.

Demonstration of this in action, thanks to Skye Storme,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu20iX83fiU

 

I get that the Electrolizer has storage, but when there is no water pumping into it, it stops generating oxygen, so that storage is wasted.
I can't remember if the valve has storage.

Quite a game breaker bug.
Something else I noticed while watching this. At 5:35 and onwards, watch the water flow into the valve. the water waits at the valve and feeds into it slowly instead of just chugging straight in. So at some level the valve works but only when met with much smaller amounts. You would think it would do this with any amount, but as shown in the video it doesn't do this. Just weird.

 

The same problem happens with gases, again as demonstrated in the video.


Steps to Reproduce
Just watch the video. It demonstrates it very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu20iX83fiU

Status: Pending

This issue has not been confirmed by a developer yet.


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If you check the electrolizer's detail page you see its storage. it can store 1000kg water. If that storage gets full then eletrolizer only gets 1kg water by default. (visually it will look like that it takes 10kg blobs since it rolls back and the closest blob to the pump will split into 1kg and 9kg)

If you use valve, which doesnt have internal storage then it will split blobs to 1kg and 9kg by default. (also valve have 50% speed so if you want 100% uptime you need to use 2 valve and dont merge the output pipes or the blobs can merge again)

With valve you can even keep the electrolyzers internal storage empty by setting it lower than it needs ( like if you set it to 10g then the 990g will be taken from the electrolyzer's storage)

Same things with gases.

Currently there are 3 types of bug where you can lose water.

- water flowing on ground (can be avoided if you use pump to move water)

- pump stucks (pumping water with maximum speed but the pipe stays empty. easy to spot and reload fixes it)

- pump outputs a little less amount than it destroys (can be avoided by storing water in pipe and not outputing it with vent)

(the pump problems applies to gases too)

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Yes, I say the electrolizer has a storage capacity, but that capacity is pointless if it is never used; 

Ok doing some tests myself.

Liquid Pump connected to a valve connected to an electrolizer.

 

Game Build: CL#208689 on steam.

Alright. Results I've found myself by imitating Skye's method:

#1) water is flowing through the pipes but my Liquid Pump is deactivated. It shouldn't be pumping water at all.

#2) I have set the valve to only let 10g/s pass through. No water is 'rolling back' in the pipe to collect with another. It's just gone. I've searched through all the dots that are traveling the pipes. there is no back log of the left over water that didn't pass through the valve. The water continues to pump into the valve at a rate of 10kg/s. By your word, it should be building up in the pipe but it isn't. I've now confirmed what the video demonstrates myself, rather than just taking someones word.

 

Still baffeld as to how this water is moving through the pipes when my pump is not active XD.

Order of operation:

1) Pump

2) Electrolizer

3) electricity to Pump

4) valve

5) connected the pump to the valve.  At this stage water started to pump through to nowhere, litterally. The valve was sucking up water and not dispensing it anywhere.

6) deactivated pump. Water stopped flowing.

7) changed Valve flow to 10g/s

8) electricity to Electrolyzer.

9) connected Valve to Electrolyzer. Water immediately started pumping. The pump was still deactivated, mind you.

10) Activated the Pump. My Pump refuses to pump water, but the water kept flowing in the pipes.

11) deconstructed the pump, and part of the electric wire. Water continues to flow from the valve in to the electrolyzer at an inconsistant rate of 11.5-12.5g.s. The water in the pipe entering the valve waits for the valve to be empty. 

12) rebuilt Pump. it is now pumping without any electricity intake... wtf. It is now chugging the water into the valve.

13) deconstructed the pump. Water continues to flow from the valve in to the electrolyzer at an inconsistant rate of 11.5-12.5g.s. The water in the pipe entering the valve has stopped moving. So I am now generating infinite small quantities of water. 

Let me try this again on a fresh world. I broke the game with my test I think.

 

Edited by kindlesmith

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Alright. Back again. So I've built it up exactly the same way as before on a brand new world after closing the game and restarting it.

Pump continues to pump water when deactivated and even when you disconnect electric wires going to it. 

Water stops moving through the pipes into the valve when the pump is deconstructed, however this does not stop the valve from emptying itself into the electorlizer.

There is also no infinite water bug, as I'll explain. Liquid Valve seems to have a capacity I am guessing the "MASS 200kg" is it. What is annoying is you can't see how much liquid is contained in the valve. Once the valve emptied itself no more water flowed. This is what I thought before was infinite water, so I was wrong there. BUT there lies a problem still.

I let the valve fill with water, having it only release 10g/s. I had it run for a very long while, but in practice 21-22 blobs of water (each are 10kg) should fill that valve of 200kg, which is losing 11-10g per second. I deconstructed the pump to stop water flowing into the valve and raised the amount to pass through valve to maximum 10k/s. 2 blobs of 10ish kg came out and then nothing. Where's the other 180kg of water? It didn't flow backwards or stay in the pipes outside the valve. 

I think this result speaks for itself that something isn't right.

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The easiest test to test valve and pipes, is to build a ring with pipes and 2 valve as a closed system. Fill this system with a pump with some amount of water or fully as you wish. Deconstruct where you filled up the system so you only have the ring with the 2 valve. Let it run forever.

Valve doesnt have internal storage, but it can use the first blob on its input port, and the second blob.

The 200kg mass is the required copper to build it. Every building have a mass.

Pump doesnt pump when you turn it off, but water can move between input port and output port. (thats why if you deconstruct the output port aka pump then the water cant flow)

Same thing with valve. Since it has output port too it allows water to flow after, if there are valid input port to take the water.

If you had active pump while was checking for water rollback then you cant spot it since it happens inside the pump (it pumps less water from its surronding to merge the blob. Also better to use kg for rollback testing)

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Ah, I had that thought that the 200kg wasn't anything to do with it and that because the valve takes up 2 tiles that would be 20kg of liquid. I see more being pumped into the valve than it outputs.

At lower amounts pumping into the valve you will see the liquid only taking small parts of a blob while the rest sits in the pipe. You see this at 5:48 in the video. Link here again:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu20iX83fiU

So why does this happen with lower quantities but not at the the full 10kg/s? (3:18 in video)

Visually it's showing that it chugs 10kgs of liquid on and on and nowhere is it to be seen that it holds back the excess.

 

A deactivated thing does not operate because it has been turned off; Made inoperable. So if the pump is turned off all liquid in the pipes flowing out of the pump should stop just like if you deconstruct the pump. However, this doesn't happen. The pipes continue to draw liquid with a deactivated pump. Remove the electric cable to the pump while the pump is deactivated, and it also continues to pump liquid. How it should work, and how it is working are two different things. XD 

 

It would be really nice if you performed the test and come back with you results rather than just stating what should happen. This is after all bug testing. I still don't get how liquids and gases are transitioned since the game doesn't seem to make it obvious to the player how it is working. Without the full visual information to go on, I was calling what both Skye and myself saw in the mechanics. Perhaps a better visual method for us would make things a lot easier to test out stuff. I could fully be wrong that liquids are being wasted, but that inactive unpowered pump pumping liquids is legit in my game. XD

 

edit: erk... my spelling and typing is bad. fixing mistakes.

Edited by kindlesmith

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I tested that valve circle and it stays as it is but dupes are losing water. If dupe need to put water on one algae terrarium 100-130kg he takes 150kg but in reality it is 700kg every time, on newly built terrarium takes 1000kg instead of 200kg and what is with that super computer why it need 25kg water? and again same problem dupe takes 25kg water but in liquid can see that he takes 100kg.

Edited by supo92
added information

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