Dupes reach 100% bladder through RNG dropping food that rots


tommytom2k2
  • Branch: Preview Branch Version: Windows Pending

Edit: Ignore the ramblings in here for now. Not fully confirmed, but infinite food storage (drop food into a C02 pit) does not play nice with a small amount of toilets and/or overlapping offset break schedules.

After a lot of testing, I have found why they do it. I thought it was some other issue but it's simply that bladder is a 1:1 cycle ratio, and due to RNG, they may or may not get interrupted when eating to use the bathroom. If you don't give them enough time to waste running back and forth and getting to 4kcal before bed, they will leave it on the floor to rot unless you have storage space and someone to clean it up the next day (losing freshness). They even seem to run off to the recreation area and never come back to clean up their mess.

Even with a 1:1 ratio of toilets per shift, the only way to reset this is to lock them in the bathroom at the start of the downtime... No that doesn't even work because they wait until 100%. Yeah, it's just RNG. Once they get derailed, they will stay derailed until RNG fixes it back. They will try to eat first, and will use the bathroom at the same time each cycle, so it will keep happening until they waste enough time one cycle being far away to have to use the bathroom first. Even then, I'm not sure it will correct itself and it will happen again anyways.

I would say give them more downtime but this is already with 5 slots of downtime and I haven't even went that far from the starting area. They just sit in the recreation room letting it rot.

image.png.885fcdd105b6feffff4c1a1e6d397876.png

Food Droppers.sav


Steps to Reproduce
Have a dupe start eating near 100% bladder. Have full food storage. Have lots of sterilized food on the ground. Have a recreation area.

Status: Pending

This issue has not been confirmed by a developer yet.


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User Feedback


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3 hours ago, Dentarthurdent said:

When their break begins, your dupes don't hit the toilets before eating?

Good question. I checked this directly again to be sure.

image.thumb.png.c6e631331215b10cc5a91a694280d981.png

The answer is "no."

3 outhouses. 4 break shifts (diff save. still happens with 5 break shifts). still decides to eat first with 3kcal in him and interrupt himself.
Accidentally cut it off in the pic, but his shift just started for break and he ran straight there to eat instead of to one of the two open toilets.

I attached a backup from an old autosave to the topic start. It's kinda old but shows a good example of them messing up.

Edited by tommytom2k2

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Use a bathroom schedule before down time? They will go to the bathroom then if they have over 40% bladder.

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12 hours ago, Moonshade said:

Use a bathroom schedule before down time? They will go to the bathroom then if they have over 40% bladder.

I'm not sure what you mean. You mean shower? Downtime is bathroom and food. Not sure what shower time does without showers, TBH.

Could be easily fixed if I could somehow prioritize using the bathroom first before eating. All the dupes have ~3000 calories in them when they go to eat, so they could actually live a few days without eating but they have to use the bathroom every cycle at exactly the same time or possibly sooner, if allowed.

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Bath time is for shower and toilets

Ahh downtime is also if +40% so I wonder what the problem is.... if they really only go at 100% it’s a bug and has nothing to do with rng whatsoever.... well Took a look at your safe and they went to the toilet as they should. But since you had quite a few mods enabled maybe that’s the cause of it?

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21 hours ago, Moonshade said:

Bath time is for shower and toilets

Ahh downtime is also if +40% so I wonder what the problem is.... if they really only go at 100% it’s a bug and has nothing to do with rng whatsoever.... well Took a look at your safe and they went to the toilet as they should. But since you had quite a few mods enabled maybe that’s the cause of it?

They are pretty lite mods. Don't think I am really using them besides the calculated output one. Shouldn't have anything to do with this.

I just realized that "bathtime" even states that it is for toilets as well. I did add bathtime before the break shifts and they do relieve themselves properly first. Strange that the default is before the workshift. I get it for the morale boost from showers (I don't have any) starting a workshift to negate negative decor, but it really messes the bathrooms up, at least for mine.

I'm wondering if it's because my dupes are trying to be "smart" by "grabbing food on the way" since the majority of my food is on the ground in a sterile environment.

Their logic seems be something like:
Break shift started!
Grab the closest food on the ground to be tidy/fast.
Oh there is a table here 2 blocks away. I might as well eat (regardless of bladder) since I'd be backtracking to use the toilet.
Oops, my bladder is full. Drop everything and lose ToDo list.
Use bathroom.
Well, I ate, so time to go party in the rec room.

Edit: I think it's simply they search for food on the ground at a higher priority than bladder usage. So, even if they have to cross the map to start their shift, they are grabbing "the closest food" to try to be fast, but it doesn't calculate having to run back to a mess table as part of it.

AI logic:
Grab food nearby for convenience on the ground to be fast/tidy.
Use the bathroom at 100%.
Leave the food on the ground because it started on the ground.
Already ate, so go party!

What actually happens:
Grabbing the nearest food on the ground is all the way back in the base in a ghetto sterile environment (not actually convenient as the food is on top of a full refrigerator).
Dupe seeks out a table instead of eating immediately (imagine if the food and table were on opposite side of the map!)
Bladder hits 100% during because bladder level is not checked before "food on ground convenience".
Dupe drops food outside of ghetto sterile environment, and loses "ToDo" list.
Dupe ate and/or above 1000kcal requirement per cycle, so eating not added back to ToDo list.
Go party while food rots on the floor!

I know I am abusing the mechanics of the game to have infinite storage in a sterile environment, but I feel like that's kinda the point of the game is to use mechanics like this to make things easier. However, even if I used the fridges correctly (storing 500kcal of food in many many fridges), I feel like this is still an issue when there is any food at all on the ground and the dupe still tries to run all the way home and still tries to find a mess table.

Early on in the game, this AI logic is fine, but it's really terrible later. Maybe have an option in the consumables to not eat food off the floor? This would work perfectly fine if they just prioritized eating food from the fridge and also prioritized bathroom breaks before eating if they are above 1000kcal. Afterall, they can piss them selves and survive every cycle. It takes them several days to starve to death and they still have there 1000kcal check to not die. They shouldn't prioritize eating every cycle even they don't even have to. They should prioritize emptying their bladder each day. Especially if it deletes their ToDo list.

Edited by tommytom2k2

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AI of dupes is stupid/funny but this is the bug section what you’re commenting about is more feedback about your current thoughts of the AI.

the prio menu has an option that specifically is there to help prioritize better for bigger colonies you might want to enable that in big bases? It’s in the top right corner of said menu. Though i doubt it will help with the food issue.

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Haven't been playing lately because of this bug. Really put me off.

I was thinking about it randomly today though and it's probably my own mistake and not fully understanding how the game works.

I do have overlapping break shift, which shouldn't be a problem if you ignore this issue (they have plenty of time to eat/poop/recreation no matter what order they do it in). In the screenshot, you can see one dupe on the toilet is not on the normal poop/eat/recreation/sleep cycle since they are pooping from the previous shift, not the newly started break shift. A break shift just started where 3 dupes are trying the normal poop/eat/recreation/sleep cycle, but 1 toilet is being used. What you don't see is the 2 dupes off on the other side of the map "reserving" 2 toilets. So, I THINK, all toilets are being used, so the 99% bladder guys goes to eat instead even though he is the closest, he hits 100% bladder and overrides someone's far away claim to a toilet (has to as I have not had anyone wet themselves), and the thing perpetuates because of this. 1 dupe is messing everyone up simply because of distance from base or something.

I could probably fix this and go back to the normal schedules by making there breaks not overlap at all and/or adding more toilets (my first playthrough, everyone had their own toilet).

So, overlapping schedules and small amounts of toilets are normally fine (if you don't care what order they do them in and give them enough time), but I don't think it works well with an infinite food storage (just dropped in a pit in a sterile environment).

Can't be bothered to test this more or otherwise I will probably not want to play this game anymore just staring at dupes and not playing the game. I've already convinced myself that it's my scheduling and bathroom setup. I'll make changes when I get back to this game and report if it still happens.

Edited by tommytom2k2

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I've changed to:
4 plumbed toilets.
3 dupes per schedule (only 3/4 toilets can be used)
0 overlap in break time scheduling

They still drop food. I've kinda just gave up trying to figure it out. Seems like they still prioritize eating if food is on the ground over using the bathroom. Honestly, I stopped watching them or otherwise I'd never play the game. Maybe it's something else now, but I assume they are still hitting 100% bladder as they eat and still dropping food because of it.

image.thumb.png.2f4c8e17528820b5aa9e618789a64430.png

Edit:

Even with a perfect schedule, they still prioritize eating food off the ground instead of using the bathroom even if they are 99% bladder and 3000+kcal on food (just seen it happen again). It's definitely some weird priority issue with food being on the floor.

Edited by tommytom2k2

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