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Warbucks' Writing Dilemma


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I also find his skin tone a bit weird compared to the others... maybe the lush season gives him that skin tone? or an inner joke to the current carrot skin culture?

Now... the writting... I wish the writers stuck to the idea of him being a Big Time Hunter instead of just an "explorer" now. The colonialist influences could have remained in his dialogue lines IMO.. maybe not as prominent but why make him perfectly aligned to political correctness when such thing wasn't a thing back then. I think that the more ridiculous the "superiority" quote, the more laughable and hilarious that ideology would seem to us, but in our current political climate the devs probs opted for more neutral quotes to prevent trigger-happy people accusing them of being racist... 

But yeap... that problem could have been solved by giving him more Hunter references instead. We already have a Wigfid calling everything that moves bacon.. so yeap... I don't see why him as as Hunter is a big issue

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I don't find Warbucks's writing too bad. Maybe that's just because I don't examine literally everything I come across, but they get the whole high-class Victorian Englishman vibe across pretty well. Which is weird, because Don't Starve is supposed to take place in like, the 1930's and after, right? But whatever. His writing doesn't really seem bad.

But seriously.

Why is he still pinkish red.

He honestly looks like he's in a mod with his skin tone. No seriously, if you puffed up his hair a little and removed the moustache, it looks like a Wilson recolor. In very un-eye-pleasing colors. It really hurts my eyes to look at the character thats in the middle of my screen for the entirety of my game experience. Klei, please change. I know you want him to look sunburned, but his skin is really sunburning my eyes. Maybe just make his skin a little bit more toned-down. Make his skin look white, but with a pink tone, instead of his skin look completely pinkish-red. 

Here, I'll take the eye-drop tool on PhotoShop, get the color of his skin, and fill Wigfrid's hair color with it, and it actually looks decent. Change it Klei, I know you will. 

Please change it.

 

Please.

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On 12/4/2018 at 2:25 PM, Atsumame said:

I honestly think that a big part of the problem with his skin tone being out of place is because of the huge contrast between his hair/mustache vs the red tan. There's so much contrasts between pure white and red that he looks like the human candy cane right now.

No wonder the Early Access was released during Christmas.:wilson_sneaky:

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On 12/7/2018 at 5:11 PM, Szczuku said:

If Warbucks is a racist English colonist then he's a racist English colonist.

Exactly.  Someone else mentioned sweeping history under the rug is a bad idea, and I couldn't agree more.  A lot of things in history hurt my feelings, but I'll be damned if I want others to pretend they didn't happen.  

I'm sorry some people are offended by the character.  Really, though, he is making fun of white British history.  If white Brits aren't offended, perhaps the rest of use shouldn't be, either.  

Re: color, I thought he was just a white guy who spends too much time in the sun = sunburn.  

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On 12/23/2018 at 3:34 AM, Master Jand said:

I don't find Warbucks's writing too bad. Maybe that's just because I don't examine literally everything I come across, but they get the whole high-class Victorian Englishman vibe across pretty well. Which is weird, because Don't Starve is supposed to take place in like, the 1930's and after, right? But whatever. His writing doesn't really seem bad.

But seriously.

Why is he still pinkish red.

He honestly looks like he's in a mod with his skin tone. No seriously, if you puffed up his hair a little and removed the moustache, it looks like a Wilson recolor. In very un-eye-pleasing colors. It really hurts my eyes to look at the character thats in the middle of my screen for the entirety of my game experience. Klei, please change. I know you want him to look sunburned, but his skin is really sunburning my eyes. Maybe just make his skin a little bit more toned-down. Make his skin look white, but with a pink tone, instead of his skin look completely pinkish-red. 

Here, I'll take the eye-drop tool on PhotoShop, get the color of his skin, and fill Wigfrid's hair color with it, and it actually looks decent. Change it Klei, I know you will. 

Please change it.

 

Please.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1545167120&searchtext=warbuck

47DEBA50152A48E78DD9F7D920278E0FB3A8664B

imo he could be even more redish but with that mod he looks kinda normal now

funny thing a mod looks normal instead of vanilla xD ... kinda ironic

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How would people feel about a Nazi character, or one based on a famous serial killer like John Wayne Gacey? To me the tone of that would be off because, while both Nazis and child murderers are historical facts, and the tone of the game is darkly parodic, there are always going to be some themes that don’t really fit the jaunty humor of DS. It’s just a matter of which of those themes pushes your buttons. Some of us have much better reasons than others to think that colonialism is beyond the, er, pale. And if it doesn’t seem like a big deal to other people who don’t have those reasons, so what? Great for you that you’ve never really had to think about that stuff or take it personally, but you’re not the only ones who count.

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Anything can offend anyone. Heck, even games like Skyrim basically make children invincible, with similar being applied to much of television/movies because they thought it would be too offensive; yet in DS, they can fight, die, and leave skeletal remains behind like anyone else.

Colonialism still exists in the present day and age, with global-scale business largely replacing the national efforts of the past, just as horribly as it always has been. If anything, the death toll and suffering caused by it has only risen with time. Especially in farming and manufacturing. Do you think that bananas sell for $0.25 out of the kindness of someone's heart?
Maybe bananas should be removed from the game because it might make people think about the corporate-sponsored mercenary wars over in Africa. Let's remove them from actual stores, too! Whether or not they're produced with those practices, because even seeing a banana and remembering the horrors of the past might make some poor soul tear up.
'People haven't had to think about it' is a pretty silly thing to say when it's still ongoing. We aren't clueless about a situation because we didn't come to the same conclusion that you did.

 

The issue with Warbucks is moreso that people really look for things to take offense to these days, and it seems like this is only a problem because DS is more popular than previously. If he had been released alongside the initial Don't Starve characters, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

Hell, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Wilson's character quote should be changed to something besides "I will conquer this world with the power of my MIND!", because said world includes sentient beings.
Maybe the years that the DS characters entered the Constant should be retconned to 2010+ because people weren't sensitive enough to count as human beings before then.
H a h.
Human nature hasn't changed with time, despite how much people like to pretend it has. You can brush it away and limit creative efforts however much you want; that'll just speed up the start of the next cycle where people find something else to hate.

 

...irritating presumptions and wall of text aside.
He's a fictional character parodying how ridiculous human beings are.
This whole thing is silly.

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21 minutes ago, lifetheuniverse said:

Anything can offend anyone.

That’s true, and still there are all sorts of things we don’t do or say out of consideration for others. It’s just a question of what those things are and whose feelings we choose to consider. We don’t have a Nazi character in DS, after all— that would be weird, creepy and in bad taste.

 

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10 minutes ago, Rellimarual said:

Pretending to be a Valkyrie =/= being a Nazi, or every soprano who’s ever sung Brunhild in Der Ring des Nibelungen would be arrested in Germany.

...well Vikings were pretty slaughtery invaders too now that you mention it, but I was referring to this:

24 minutes ago, Rellimarual said:

We don’t have a Nazi character in DS, after all— that would be weird, creepy and in bad taste.

5c2981112bbd4_TentacleLolli.png.414e055ba28a12beb490307801654336.png

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10 hours ago, Rellimarual said:

That’s true, and still there are all sorts of things we don’t do or say out of consideration for others. It’s just a question of what those things are and whose feelings we choose to consider. We don’t have a Nazi character in DS, after all— that would be weird, creepy and in bad taste.

 

You bring up a an excellent point that begs self-reflection.  Why is British Colonialism fair game but a character named Witler not?  

When I first heard of Warbucks, I immediately thought of  Warbucks from Little Orphan Annie, which I believe was intended.  He was rich, and Warbucks does love his treasure.  Of course, there was more to discover about DS Warbucks...  

I could write paragraphs about the dynamics of who finds what offensive and cultural differences,  but it would get waaaaaaaaaaay too off-topic for a computer game forum (and probably waaaaay too personal, as well.)  However, I find your comment "great for you you never had to think about that stuff or take it personally" too simplistic (no insult intended, please don't take it that way.)  Your statement about it depending upon which buttons an individual has for pushing was much more insightful.  

But this is the ever-evolving stuff of history and cultural discussion/debate/altercation and sometimes warfare.  Some people would not think twice about a character based upon a Native American chief, others would become sick to their stomachs.  And the same groups of people who named their sports teams after Native American stereotypes might file lawsuits if "Wejus" had a nerf in which in he rose from the dead every time he was killed, but three days later.  

I don't have answers, just more questions.  Perhaps my earlier response did not take into account the fact that (some? all?) people from India continue to feel the sting of prior colonialism.  Time is often an indicator of where to draw the line between humor and offense, as healing happens over time.   I am sure the mass of people on these forums will have to agree to disagree.  

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Well people, life ain't a fairytale. You'll always be annoyed/offended by something and you shouldn't expect the whole world to adjust to your likings.

As I said earlier someone could say that Woodie is offensive towards Canadians, Webber for people with arachnophobia or Wx-78 towards all living creatures. Should Klei also change them?

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For my part, when I saw this character for the first time, I smiled embarrassed and thought internally "ohoh will be people who will watch this steteotyped character". Its orange color does not bother me, on the contrary it makes me rather laugh. In my eyes Warbuck represents a caricature, like almost all the characters of DS. These are the majority of other characters that I find too bland in their skin tone.

When to his colonizing side that disturbs some players, I want to remind them that they do not have to behave as such with this character if it bothers them.
You have the choice in the game with him to behave well and to break the stereotype that he seems to represent. Just do not steal the pigs, not kill them to eat, protect them from the attacks of vampires bats rather than run away. In short, just be kind, and do things that do not go against your conscience. For my part I love playing this character in this way and I can tell you that I take a lot of fun, especially as it makes the game more difficult.

Just as you have the choice to behave badly with him, as with all the other characters besides. But in this case please, assume this way of playing and do not accuse your character to be the source of the misfortune that you chose to sow in your world.

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5 hours ago, ucw said:

But this is the ever-evolving stuff of history and cultural discussion/debate/altercation and sometimes warfare.  Some people would not think twice about a character based upon a Native American chief, others would become sick to their stomachs.  And the same groups of people who named their sports teams after Native American stereotypes might file lawsuits if "Wejus" had a nerf in which in he rose from the dead every time he was killed, but three days later.  

I don't have answers, just more questions.  Perhaps my earlier response did not take into account the fact that (some? all?) people from India continue to feel the sting of prior colonialism.  Time is often an indicator of where to draw the line between humor and offense, as healing happens over time.   I am sure the mass of people on these forums will have to agree to disagree.  

You’re getting my point, thanks. I’m pretty sure all of us have particular things we wouldn’t like to see depicted in the ultimately lighthearted and humorous style of DS. It’s not like there are no standards at all, so let’s not pretend otherwise. It’s just a question of whose standards get applied. Saying “Everything is offensive to someone” doesn’t really mean much, unless what you really mean is, “The type of people who find this a distasteful thing to joke about don’t matter because I’m not one of them.”

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4 hours ago, Rellimarual said:

“The type of people who find this a distasteful thing to joke about don’t matter because I’m not one of them.”

I've had terrible experiences with old people and hold a so-far unsolvable discomfort toward behavior reminiscent of those individuals. I could ask that Wickerbottom be made younger saying that her stereotype might offend me...but that'd be absolutely silly.

I grew up in the New Orleans area. Many of the cops there are legit as much of a threat as the criminals, and I tend to avoid cops anywhere as a result of that experience. That doesn't mean that officers in other parts of the country should hide their uniforms around me so I don't feel threatened.

 

People only understand the hardships that they've experienced or otherwise witnessed in some way. The world is a big place, and even 2 first world countries can be so wildly different at a basic level that you couldn't even begin to guess at the thought process of a citizen there without spending some pretty extensive time on it.
Noone is an exception to that; certainly not anyone here. I'm not disagreeing with you because I've never experienced similar discomforts around content, or because I don't get why you're uncomfortable. I have some idea of what horrors have gone on around the world, and still actively go on.
Your point of view is accepted. It doesn't matter not because we're not you, but because there's no limit to the amount of things that are potentially offensive...and wiping out the past is worse.

If things were banned simply due to discomfort around them, movies would still be horribly stiff-feeling due to fines for anything slightly uncouth, alcohol would be a gateway to the criminal underbelly of the country due to prohibition, history classes would be even more censored than currently, religions/non-religions would see regional bans, I'd have a restraining order against anyone over 60, and you'd see a lot less variety in who's allowed to walk the streets near you without being apprehended. And I'd be arrested for a certain somewhat-profitable hobby of mine.

All but one of those was either a historical or extra-national example. Well, there might be a similar example against old people if a certain set of circumstances in Japan eventually comes to a head...

 

 

Literally anything can be an issue. Literally anything can make someone uncomfortable, or be offensive.
I've...experienced some things that have shown me just how horrifying the results are when you try and pretend that those things don't exist. The lethal, rest-of-the-world-pretending-that-absolute-attrocities-didn't-occur kind. Speaking to people across the world, getting involved, seeing through windows into an entirely different world, and then uuuhhh...not speaking to them. Not being able to.
You get the picture.

I could take offense any time I see something that might be construed as associated with that, but...if anything, forgetting about something like that feels even more terrible.
Part of living among other human beings is learning to get over your grievances, get along, and function anyway. Take it from a hardcore, occasionally anxiety-ridden introvert who's seen some shheck.png.14fa522c0b530200555991f770f4d807.png.

 

...this got, like, way more philosophical than I thought it would. But honestly, I love these kinds of discussions. Expansion of perspective and all that.

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Warbucks had a lot of interesting and satirical potential in the "colonial big-game hunter" shtick. His playstyle was already pretty boring given everything there was to work with in him, and it'd be an absolute shame to see his personality and character watered down to that same level. Hopefully he doesn't just become "fancy Woodlegs", that is to say just a flat treasure-tracking explorer, just because referencing a certain chapter of history is forbidden in the game where you can play as:

  • A possible Bolshevik
  • A maniacal genocidal robot who wishes to destroy all life
  • Or a literal pirate (you know, those historically pillaging, raping, murdering thieves)

All while using unholy dark magic to murder innocent sentient pig-people in cold blood to consume their flesh for sustenance.

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On 12/22/2018 at 12:52 PM, Szczuku said:

You're actually right. No one (I think) is ofended about Woodie being a litteral walking Canadian stereotype

 

On 12/22/2018 at 5:34 PM, orian34 said:

Now wait for it


Oh! Le Gasp! I am quite hurt that you think no one is offended by thine stereotype of the ever-so-rare Canadian, for thou such hast mineself is! 
I am confusion-ified how such a human couldn't be hurt-ed-ed-ed by such Rooood portrayal of the Canadian. How scandalous of thine developers!

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The argument that he's offensive to the PoC (term that in an actual racism free world wouldn't be a thing because we wouldn't have to point it out) is kinda ridiculous.  Being a so called "PoC" myself i find warbucks as what he was intended to be, a satire. It's not that klei is racist and expresses it through Warbucks, it's just that he's a parody of a stereotype of an era. If we get into detail, how come people doesn't get offended by maxwell's backstory using a catastrophe as the san francisco earthquake?  Like cmon. He's bright red because they wanna sell the message that he's tanned to the crisp.

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Orange man bad
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1545544910

On 31.12.2018 at 6:43 PM, trucmoi said:

In my eyes Warbuck represents a caricature, like almost all the characters of DS.

I agree a lot!

I like how there's finally a character that looks quite different and has different skin color. Not because *hurr durr let's put people of all races here* but just because most of the characters are pale. There's a monkey, robot, Warly is a little bit different but that's it. Oh, and Webber, too.

I get that everyone slaughters pigs and stuff and it's okay but if character actually has quotes about being superior you get mad.
But I don't really like when all the characters are similar and boring. Creating racist fictional characters doesn't make you racist and it doesn't aim to offend others, I believe. That's how you tell stories.

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Oh wowzers look at how this place turned out. Well lotsa folks here gone total bonkers.

Literally every piece of media is full of stereotypes, either subverted or developed, that's what characterization and design RELIES on. You have to see the stock trope to identify the character, and then their development, whether it matches the traits you expect or is the opposite, is where the writing comes in. Theres nothing wrong with that part, it's that some of you fools are trying to compare that to actually offensive stereotypes and characterization

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On 30.12.2018 at 5:13 AM, FreyaMaluk said:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1545167120&searchtext=warbuck

47DEBA50152A48E78DD9F7D920278E0FB3A8664B

imo he could be even more redish but with that mod he looks kinda normal now

funny thing a mod looks normal instead of vanilla xD ... kinda ironic

This looks AWFUL! How someone could think it is a good idea to change his skin colour?!

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5 hours ago, inferjus4 said:

This looks AWFUL! How someone could think it is a good idea to change his skin colour?!

Probably because they don't like it and want to change it?

I mean… that's the only reason I can think of. Some1 finding that sun tan weird

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