Warbucks' Writing Dilemma

[SDragonhead]

This is a discussion more about how Warbucks design and writing is quite, how do I put this lightly, bad. I’m not gonna explain all this just to scare Warbucks stand but just to bring to light on now to Not write a character for this sweet game.

He's the first ever character to have such a,..skin tone after a series of making every character have a skin tone that of paper and toned paper as a part of the art style. It’s hard to deny that it is due to his many adventures in the sun beatten jungles, but its hard to convince that he could be a POC because of the sorta history behind his character and quotes. It’s disappointing to see how the canon POC characters arent even close when it comes to saturation of skin color.

 

 

The blunderbuss weapon. Warbucks had quotes referring to hunting, and some folks were fine with the idea of him being a big game hunter as that’s just what rich folks did back then. But during a KLEI art stream his portrait was altered to a shovel because he is NOT a big game hunter, and his current quotes had removed references to his hunting expeditions. 

https://m.twitch.tv/videos/335555485

Touchy Subjects: His character is ‘Rich British Explorer’. If you are aware on history like me, I was very afraid on what kind of character he was stereotyped as. Such type of people were hmm, not good to other cultures, had bad ideas on em, imperialism, all that jazz. Anddddd Warbucks originally had those quotes :/

East India Company.. REALLY, A big part of the British imperialism industry..These are now all edited to remove such a uhh tone, if you dont believe me I am glad to send you the original LUA speech file. It’s disappointing really that the new writing for new DS content had ended up like this.  Sooo that’s soup for ya

It's still good in a sense that KLEI edited all of that as they've seen their mistake, but Oof I just wanna make folks see why I was iffy on this character. I love KLEI but dango you made a booboo.

He's just too 'perfect' in the imperfect world of DS, the only character flaws I see is him being stinky if he existed in real life. I understand that Klei hired new writer(s), which is why Woodlegs has new lines that have bad pirate grammar. Yet making a character like Warbucks on that line of historical people is hoohaaa

[Nebulaemon]

You're 100% right. Literally every person of color I know who plays Don't Starve has expressed discomfort with his weird skin tone choices and dialog and general Himselfness. Not a good financial move to so greatly alienate so much of your audience.

I personally am not even sure I want Hamlet-- for a multitude of reasons, actually! Let's be fair! But this is one of them. Thank you for so eloquently bringing this to light.

[JohnWatson]

why is he still red

[42violets]

I totally agree with your points, but I wonder if his skin color is intentional to show that he's a bad person? His red skin marks him indisputably European, as white people show sunburn the most. But to me his red skin also calls back to an unused character on the DT wiki, Wortox.

 

 

Admediatly, the only semblance they share is red skin (and the moustache(?) that Wortox might have?) But I really wonder if Klei is trying to (emphasis on trying) demonize Warbucks, and portray his as a white devil. He's in a climate that he does not belong in, and its turned his skin to that of a demonic figure. And as I just noticed now, his name is War and Bucks, making money off of war and violence. 

This is not to say that DS doesn't have a problematically white roster, with very pale POC at that. If this was indeed their intent, it would be more clear if he wasn't the most saturated character in the game. 

[Zeklo]

Honestly I find throwing things under the rug and pretending they didn't happen more insulting. If that's the kind of character they are that's the kind of character they are.

The difference is portraying versus glorifying, with one being much worse.

I do agree they're too red though.

[Maxposting]

5 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

why is he still red

i thought he is orange

clearly he isn't white so we can use all colors.

[mr.Hazard]

Never liked the skin tone. It's too saturated compared to all the characters. He looks as contrasting as a traffic cone. Feels more like a fan created character that breaks the art style slightly.(like my own personal character I made once upon a time..)

reducing the saturation while sticking to a sunburnt/dark tone would make it less distracting from an artstyle oriented standpoint. 

as for the rich British explorer stereotype, I think he'd benefit from it. they key is to bump it up until it's clear that it's a stereotype/parody while not directly referencing thing things like the east india company by name. Just like how the pigs are based on Victorian era British(and concurrent) stereotypes. 

in other words, ask yourself: "what would monty python do?" ;P 

[TurtleKitty]

Is the racism and colonialism due to steadfast clinging to it as a way to feel superior or more towards the gross ignorance that the masses ascribed to in the earlier eras? Would Warbucks ever grow as a person and see other cultures as more deserving of respect? Coming to terms with the fact he was dismissive, he was horrible, he was wrong - and trying to make amends? If we take those lines as the original concept then there was potential for showing a change of heart. But that goes on rather rocky roads as the wounds of white imperialism are still fresh and is actually still a rampant problem today. 
Perhaps the rewrite of his character could show that he already is undergoing the transition of character after a moral event horizon? That he understands the fallacy of his era and of his person and is trying to do better? 
 

[. . .]

i hope the future hamlet characters (if there will be any) will not be as weird as old hotdog wilson

[magia]

There was nothing wrong with his old quotes, the only thing weird is him being this tan. Only uneducated manchildren would want to censor him.

[TheMetalMan]

I am not a big fan of censorship myself, I think if he's supposed to be a colonialist he should be allowed to.

Pretending things didn't happen is to put limits on satire and our ability to look back and say "Well, that was a bit messed up wasn't it?"(to put it to a lighter term but if he shows remorse for his previous actions that'd be fine as it reflects how he was previously written.

20 hours ago, TurtleKitty said:

and trying to make amends? 

I like this idea, most people has presumably been tricked into the DS wolrd due to greed or a thirst for knowledge, if Warbuck was a "colonialist born to late"(in a similar way to how Wigfrid is a Viking) it'd make sense for him to jump into the Don't Starve world with a romanticized attitude for colonialism.

Soon to be proved wrong in one way or the other.
Like when he examine the Pig Scepter he could rather say:
"I once believed I reserved to hold this once." or similar.

That said there is already a few characters that do look down on the world around them: Maxell and WX-87, the only difference is that automatons and Magicians that trap people in other worlds, don't exist. Meanwhile we have Woodlegs that's based on our Modern romanticized view of pirates, who historically where thieves and murderers.
Even so I don't think "Big Game Hunter" is more PC than a Treasure Hunter, maybe a bit less racist, but still.

It's up to the Klei team how they write their characters.

But yeah the Skin tone is pretty weird if you ask me.

[SkylordElberich]

Okay, I have a rather... controversial opinion, so try to remain open-minded...

I actually quite like his skin tone.

Please don't kill me

[SDragonhead]

Yknow what in a cartoony aspect it works

[Atsumame]

I honestly think that a big part of the problem with his skin tone being out of place is because of the huge contrast between his hair/mustache vs the red tan. There's so much contrasts between pure white and red that he looks like the human candy cane right now.

[metallichydra]

the only thing I really dislike about warbucks is his skintone.

 

he's a stereotype, why isn't this specific stereotype allowed, while every other stereotype is?

 

 its a GAME

[TurtleKitty]

16 hours ago, SDragonhead said:

Yknow what in a cartoony aspect it works

Awwwww. He looks adorable.

[mr.Hazard]

well, it's up to klei to decide, but a greedy/patronizing stereotype is exactly the kind of person I'd imagine Maxwell or "them" would bring to the constant to poke fun at. 

[PlayMoGame]

I figured I'd make this to add to the conversation.

[inferjus4]

Warbucks' skin tone is not a problem for me (I actually think it looks pretty cool).The bigger problem for me are his hair that look so bad in the game that it makes me think he was created by novice computer graphic designer. They need to be remade, at least make them not look like they would be made in lower resolution.

Also giving him back his old quotes would make him much more interesting character. Warbucks has so much potential for being an interesting character but all he has is regenerating sanity by holding coins and starting with two items which in turn give him nothing (loupe is useless and ball pein hammer is so easy to make that Warbucks does not need it as start item).

[Szczuku]

I don't think his quotes or hunter status should be changed.

I mean we have a robot who wants to destroy all living beings but since that's not a thing (for now) in real world nobody considers that offensive or wrong.

Also- Woodlegs has quotes where he basically calls Hamlet pigs "swines" and "bores". Unless these also got changed.

If Warbucks is a racist English colonist then he's a racist English colonist.

(also I didn't bothered to read the entire thread so this might not even be relevent)

[SDragonhead]

That sure is some wild soup dude

[PunkShark]

I don't see the problem, neither with his skin tone (I frankly thinks it gives him more personality like all the others) nor with his speechlines.

History is history, i don't see why we need to censor it, even if its awful and bad history. Plus, it also makes his character more interesting, than just this rich british guy.

 

[maradyne]

...I don't get this, really. To me he seemed half stereotypical historical colonialist, and half The Most Dangerous Game.
Both things entirely fitting for this game, and fitting with the DLC.

He might have come off as being a 'Mmyes gaze upon my superior culture' kind of guy, but that's kind of how things were in the part of the past that he alludes to...and he's also the color of a carrot, and completely out of his depth with the progression of time.
Massive potential as the butt end of jokes. And even that fits the overall theme of Don't Starve; a bunch of misfits trying and failing hilariously at being alive.

 

Why is this even a discussion, it's a silly stereotype in a game featuring loads of them.

[Szczuku]

56 minutes ago, lifetheuniverse said:

Why is this even a discussion, it's a silly stereotype in a game featuring loads of them.

You're actually right. No one (I think) is ofended about Woodie being a litteral walking Canadian stereotype

[orian34]

4 hours ago, Szczuku said:

You're actually right. No one (I think) is ofended about Woodie being a litteral walking Canadian stereotype

Now wait for it