[OutDated] The Steam Turbine: Everything you need to know

[Yoma_Nosme]

1 hour ago, mathmanican said:

Three tricked tepidizers can run two turbines with ease, leaving more than 1000W  of power. Add a thermosensor, and you can increase that to over 1500W average.  Here's a picture.

Quick question. I've never tricked a tepidizer. Could you explain shortly how it works? I guess it's the oil on the step or some gas in the small room. But why is there no oil on the step on the left?

[SkunkMaster]

I would like to note that the space turbine does not work anymore. 

I've since then moved on to this build.

 

Neither the AT's or the Tepedizer run 100%. 5kw 100% stable.

[mathmanican]

19 hours ago, Yoma_Nosme said:

Quick question. I've never tricked a tepidizer. Could you explain shortly how it works? I guess it's the oil on the step or some gas in the small room. But why is there no oil on the step on the left?

That was my first time tricking a tepizider as well. I'm sure someone else can point you to a great thread on it. As for the oil on the left, the Naptha turned to sour gas (before i added a thermo sensor). The water is slowly heating up (didn't notice that till after I posted). That picture will eventually fail (only because I didn't put the thermo sensor in soon enough. I'd add a fail safes to make sure the temp never gets too high in the Naptha tiles if I were to utilize this build. 

Problem though - upon save/reload the tepidizer no longer outputs the same amount of heat (I don't see the temp resetting to 125 anymore, but something wonky is going on). Descontruct, reconstruct the tepidizers, and it works perfectly again. The issue appears to be that the 4000kW is not being applied to the surrounds upon save/reload, reported by @Byce at 

 

[babba]

Superb collection of all the stuff associated with the steam engine. I have no proper use for the steam engine, as the electric output is too low and the whole messing around with it I find far too cumbersome. I love the look, the steam animation and the size. That it has the effect of cooling steam down is interesting and useful for others, but for me that's a byproduct.

[mathmanican]

It's simple to get a single tepidizer to run the turbine, you just have to put the tepidizer ABOVE the turbine. Why above? You need the heat from the tepidizer to interact with the cooled 425K steam before it gets gobble up and shot back out at 425K. If you place the tepidizer below the turbine, then the hot steam gets gobbled up before it gets to interact with the cool steam. (See @R9MX4's bug post, version 2 and comments for more details).  

The theoretical maximum for the steam (tepidizer is providing 4064kDTUs and turbine is dropping 4064kDTUs) is 522.24815K (around 249 C). The steam in the picture above rose from 230C (I started low on purpose) and rose till lit hit around 248C under the turbine. Plaster the room in tempshift plates and I bet you get pretty dang close to the theoretical max. Add a thermal sensor under the turbine, and you could recoup as much energy as you dare (any temp closer to 500K (226.9C) will save you energy cost). However, upon save/load this whole thing stops working. Dang.

For those who deny the output at 425K (151.9C) rule, here's a nice snapshot that shows this is exactly what is happening.

 

 

[mathmanican]

3 hours ago, babba said:

I have no proper use for the steam engine, as the electric output is too low and the whole messing around with it I find far too cumbersome.

@babba, I love your posts. Your sarcasm is sometimes so subtle (and sometimes so blatantly obvious) that it always keeps me smiling.  I'm not sure if "electric output too low" here is sarcasm or not, but I definitely agree that "the whole messing around with it" part is what makes or breaks using it for people.  I love the "cumbersome" part, but would change the word to "challenging." Reminds me of the following cartoon. 

I guess I like being "mentally challenged"  , and I have come to terms with it.

When I play, I like to get a steam turbine up and running (tricked with chlorine) before cycle 100, with space for 5 more as my power needs grow. The design fits almost perfectly under my base (would be perfect if I leave a column for dupe tubes next time to the left of my ladder). No need for battery backup, no need for any other power.  I can focus on other things. With smart battery switching, I can move power to anywhere on the map with a single simple wire (infinite power can go on one main line - see the power guide in my signature).   Hmm.... "electric output too low".... Hmm....   

I leave space under the turbines to add aquatuners and other stuff as needed later. Next time I play I think I'll try to get this thing up by cycle 60. The coal generators haven't run for quite a long time. The canister emptiers are a very simple way to get the right amount of oxygen in to start a gas conflict (and even steam - though I find a liquid tepidizer, together with bottle emptier, faster).  If I want the byproducts from other generators, I turn them on for their byproduct, not for the power they produce. My O2 production is connected to this, and all my hydrogen is being saved (though my hydrogen gens are ready on standby should steam power fail me - hoping it does some day). Liquid H2 ftw. 

 

[babba]

@mathmanican

Well the comedy already starts being stuck in the forum autonameselectionsystem with the cursor stuck in this orange box with your name in + fishing out your name from the one gazillion similar ones haha. I love your cartoon picture. Hello my dear friend BTW:)

I know a lot of people love to figure out all the nibbly things in the game and get great joy out of it, out of their performed precision.

The day Klei decided to remove the meteor impact dupes from the game, due to pathfinding lockup jam issues and not having the development time to fix it and to leave it like that in the game , that was the day where the game could have become a bit more funny = A bit more chaotic.

Finding games which have the Carmageddon 1/2 comedy factor (similar with 100 dupes having their issues) and at the same time are a city builder (for me) and have colony elements, + require building some hydrogen cooled cpu pc is hard nowadays.

I began to play this game as a normal player, but as I progressed and gave natural birth to a few hundred dupes... I then realised how much comedy fun this game actually is as I was building gravestone rows for a hundred dupes to use tile space in an efficient way . Once I became an efficient sixfeetunder funeral director I saw the potential to play the game the Cities Skylines, Sim City style after being stuck in cycle 2000 with my mega mushroom farm.

The simulation aspect of the game is amazing!

I do find the steam engine too nibbly... and why not have the dupes also be aging, so that we can manufacture antiage facial cream and produce (wood) wheelchairs, @Madbro

If the wheel chair dupes then ride through the engines steam and get the sun burn (I love that Klei put it in with the funny graphics, looking like drunk), that adds to the games fun. @Oozinator

had the idea of stilts, to walk through chlorine basins, so many great and funny ideas!

You've got all the helpful steam engine solutions together in this thread, it's really helpful for steam engine designers. ONI is awesome, if one wants to build the mega 100 steam engine system or some efficient 1 engine version... The game allows it for the players.

That Klei made the editor available for everyone is one of the biggest game features, in my opinion.

Happy ONI May the fun never end.

[mathmanican]

12 hours ago, Yoma_Nosme said:

I've never tricked a tepidizer. Could you explain shortly how it works?

Check this bug post (by ---- guess who ---- the best bug posts out there ---- no other than @R9MX4). I think I'm going to devote the next week or so to reading all of your bug posts. Lots of gems in there. Gotta enjoy them before they disappear.  

[0xFADE]

I’m using a few steam turbines for water cooling. I could never get enough polluted water to convert to 40c water to keep up with all my cooling needs. Now I don’t need the polluted water. Very liberating. 

It isn’t an energy producer and the design can be simplified from my first version but actually using them for something is nice.

I should have done it a few hundred cycles ago when I first started making steel and had plastic.

[GemeinerJack]

So, time for another probably stupid idea. I tried to abvoid using any exploits (at least that i know off). So no blocked ports, no "foreign" gases, no doorpumps (some consider them exploits so nope) and finally, try to make it power positiv.

The idea behind hit: Why should i try to heat up all the steam if the turbine does it own stuff with the heat. And the water keeps pushing the steam to build up pressure. So i put every bridge (conveyer, liquid, gas, conductive wire and automation, even using a super coolant loop to maybe transfer even more heat) behind the sculpture so the entire heat of the aquatuner gets put and hopefully only into one tile. The tile which changes water to steam has often below 1kg steam while the rest of the turbine sometimes goes up to 200 kg steam so no underpressure problem. And since i need less "heat energy" to heat up one kg of steam to 500°K i even get the turbine running for some time, even without blocking any ports. The problems i face with this build:

The waterlocks slowly heats up and brakes at some point, leading to equal pressure, sometimes with enough heat to prevent the waterlock from reestablishing himself.

Still not power positiv. The turbine produces roughly 60% of the energy the aquatuner needs...

Put maybe, just maybe, someone else has another idea how to improve it.

[FIXBUGFIXBUGFIX]

7 minutes ago, GemeinerJack said:

so the entire heat of the aquatuner gets put and hopefully only into one tile

I'm not sure what about others' idea, but for me, you are exactly trying to use an exploit. A more fairly way (for me) is heating all tiles to 500K.

 

Every tile should supply 2 kg/s, >500K steam. Using condense to recycle water. That's the most justice way I can think of, but it's too stupid.

 

All above is just my personal view

[mathmanican]

22 minutes ago, GemeinerJack said:

The idea behind hit: Why should i try to heat up all the steam if the turbine does it own stuff with the heat.

Agreed.  This is precisely the idea behind my steam clamped turbine. I liked your approach to use all thermal transfer focused on one tile. Would one tile of petro be sufficient?

5 minutes ago, R9MX4 said:

Every tile should supply 2 kg/s, >500K steam. Using condense to recycle water. That's the most justice way I can think of, but it's too stupid.

"But it's too stupid."  Hahahaha.  Yep.  The turbine definitely needs a rework.  I'm excited to see the changes someday (or disappointed if it never changes). 

[Tunechi_sama]

Can someone show me the commonly used automate for a door pump for steam turbine, cant figure it out 

[mathmanican]

On 11/26/2018 at 2:55 PM, Tunechi_sama said:

Can someone show me the commonly used automate for a door pump for steam turbine, cant figure it out

I couldn't resist.  If you haven't seen LMGTFY before, here's a way to get your answer:

• http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Can+someone+show+me+the+commonly+used+automate+for+a+door+pump+for+steam+turbine

By the way, @crypticorb's post (below) is what shows first when I use the instructions above.

 

[Tunechi_sama]

 

5 hours ago, mathmanican said:

I couldn't resist.  If you haven't seen LMGTFY before, here's a way to get your answer:

• http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Can+someone+show+me+the+commonly+used+automate+for+a+door+pump+for+steam+turbine

By the way, @crypticorb's post (below) is what shows first when I use the instructions above.

 

. Lmgtfy is just tasteless. I tried that and had trouble finding what i was looking for and the top results arent what i was looking for 

[mathmanican]

8 hours ago, Tunechi_sama said:

Lmgtfy is just tasteless. I tried that and had trouble finding what i was looking for and the top results arent what i was looking for 

Sarcasm.  Did I get this one past without it being noticed?   @babba, you are the king of sarcasm in the forums, so I'll leave it to your judgement.  Was my reply just flat out rude, or what it subtle sarcasm. If you haven't seen LMGTFY before, it can be a fun one to use between friends. 

My hope to let you know I was joking was the fact that I included a link for ya @Tunechi_sama. I know google doesn't always return the same list of links each time you query something. I hope the link I gave helped you get what you need. @crypticorb has spent a ton of time with automation, and explored lots of different option, so I figured it would be a good link to include. If you want more examples, in the forums search for his name along with "door pump."

 

[babba]

The LMGTFY is a bit overrated in my opinion, the SQWHDUVE works much better.

[Bluefoxfire]

On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 5:27 PM, mathmanican said:

Magma has tons of heat.  How do I use it?  Oh no, I cracked open a magma source and now the air around is so hot my dupes can't enter without melting their atmo suits (looks like we need to learn about vacuums). Should I pipe magma in?  Obsidian doesn't melt, so I should use that, but all the pumps melt.

Not entirely true. It can be done if you use either wolfmarite or steel to make the pump. Be sure to also use the wires powering it are made of tungsten. The overheat damage ticks are surprisingly small and the pump can last for a good while before it breaks.

[Saturnus]

39 minutes ago, Bluefoxfire said:

Not entirely true. It can be done if you use either wolfmarite or steel to make the pump. Be sure to also use the wires powering it are made of tungsten. The overheat damage ticks are surprisingly small and the pump can last for a good while before it breaks.

You can make a pump that actually doesn't break out of plastic

[Bluefoxfire]

I'm guessing you're referring to the mini pump, as the normal one can't use plastic, right? 

[Saturnus]

6 minutes ago, Bluefoxfire said:

I'm guessing you're referring to the mini pump, as the normal one can't use plastic, right? 

Yes, and you can pump magma with it.

[Bluefoxfire]

Very interesting.

[yoakenashi]

On 11/19/2018 at 9:22 PM, GemeinerJack said:

So, time for another probably stupid idea. I tried to abvoid using any exploits (at least that i know off). So no blocked ports, no "foreign" gases, no doorpumps (some consider them exploits so nope) and finally, try to make it power positiv.

...

Still not power positiv. The turbine produces roughly 60% of the energy the aquatuner needs...

Put maybe, just maybe, someone else has another idea how to improve it.

Like most people here, I have thought about trying to create a power positive build using the steam turbine. However without using any of the common turbine exploits, the numbers indicate it is impossible to use an aquatuner to run a steam turbine.

Steam turbine requires 1.56 (kDTU/s)/W

Spoiler

 

• Steam has a specific heat of 4.179 DTU/(g °C)
• The turbine moves 10 kg/s, drops the temperature 75 °C, and produces 2000 W

(4.179 DTU) * (10 kg) * (75 °C) * (     1       ) = 1.56713 kDTU
            g °C           s                       2000 W                      s W

 

and Thermo Aquatuner produces maximum of 0.98 (kTDU/s)/W

Spoiler

• Using highest specific heat material, super coolant at 8.44 DTU/(g °C)
• The aquatuner moves 10 kg/s, increases the temperature 14 °C, and requires 1200 W

(8.44 DTU) * (10 kg) * (14 °C) * (    1       ) = 0.98467 kDTU
          g °C           s                      1200 W                     s W

Meaning you cannot heat the steam fast enough given the amount of power the turbine produces.

Feel free to double check my math, I do tend to make mistakes.

Now, the question is: is there something else in the game (other than exploiting the liquid tepidizer to heat above 85 °C) that would produce more than 1.56 (KDTU/s)/W.

*checks game*

The only buildings that produce that amount of heat (directly, not via products) are ones that require no power:

• Power transformer
• Compost - requires polluted dirt or other compostable to run
• Kiln - requires clay or coal to run

A transformer produces 1kDTU/s, which means you'll need 3,135 to provide the heat necessary to run a turbine. That's nearly 7 screens-worth (fully zoomed out, 1920x1080 resolution). Not impossible, just a little absurd.

One idea is to use the surface. Meteors and surface debris are hot enough. We know meteor shower rates, materials, average temperature, so it would be possible to calculate. Maybe another time

[Christophlette]

17 minutes ago, yoakenashi said:

Now, the question is: is there something else in the game (other than exploiting the liquid tepidizer to heat above 85 °C) that would produce more than 1.56 (KDTU/s)/W.

I really hope it's not feasible at any point through the developement of the game. It's like using a motor in real life to activate a dynamo resulting in more energy every second. Free power options are a bit too op unless it's absurd like the power transformer thing.

The only things that comes into my mind are :

- Meteor showers as a renewable way to heat a turbine.

- Lava from the oil biome as a non-renewable way to run a turbine.

Personnally I'm ok with non-renewable way to run a system if it can run long enough with the fuel.

[Boxman_90]

46 minutes ago, yoakenashi said:

A transformer produces 1kDTU/s, which means you'll need 3,135 to provide the heat necessary to run a turbine. That's nearly 7 screens-worth (fully zoomed out, 1920x1080 resolution). Not impossible, just a little absurd.

A little absurd, you say?