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_Q_

Farms not needed at all

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Silvi    27

Well, to be honest, i don't even like it myself. But it was the first thing that came to my mind :D

For some reason the only thing I associate with winter food is hunting and fishing through holes in ice.

Well it is a survival game after all so nutrition doesn't sound like a bad idea. As for the honey, I personally think that you need to upkeep it and feed the bees or something when you take their honey (just like in real life), or they would die. Or, what if we have the same "Respect Nature" rule and a queen bee attacks you if you take too much honey?That'd be creepy as hell.

New boss sounds good to me. It would fit in the theme of If something is overused, WHIP IT. I mean, have a big thing defend it (treeguard, spider queen etc.). I'm surprised the pig king doesn't stop giving you gold after you mass produce bacon.

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Xybb    10

You could nerf the honey production while adding a creature which hunts for honey. The more beeboxes you got, the more likely the creature comes for your honey and destroys the beehives (and possibly your other stuff) while raiding them.Or just add a nutrition system, I'd love it ^^.

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FrenchTart    10

Maybe just make it so that if your character eats primarily nothing but honey you start to produce manure at an alarming rate. This would get worse and worse until eventually the game crashes due to too many manure entities.

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Silvi    27

Maybe just make it so that if your character eats primarily nothing but honey you start to produce manure at an alarming rate. This would get worse and worse until eventually the game crashes due to too many manure entities.

or just cavities. -20 to HP untill you balance it out with something and go to the dentist.

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FrenchTart    10

or just cavities. -20 to HP untill you balance it out with something and go to the dentist.

That's probably a somewhat more sensible idea than mine of having the player drown as the brown tide comes in, yeah :)

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Palpetinus    839

or just cavities. -20 to HP untill you balance it out with something and go to the dentist.

As a value it could look like this.An invisible meter from -100 to 100, when you eat something, you lose a set amount on that meter, let's say 5. It regenerates 1 every minute (so you could eat 1 honey each day and still regenerate the value). When the value is beneath 0, you still get fed, but you will lose health based on how negative you are.Sounds good?

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tehMugwump    443

That and I do believe the night will be longer in winter.

The first 30 days must be already difficult to survive on the food available to prevent overhoarding. I'm not a fan of those but what if the crops don't even grow beyond a certain amount of times before day 30 (and making new fields wouldn't reset the counter)? So no overusing poo to mass produce veggies.

Or hell maybe no crops at all before winter, first winter you have to survive on what you can hunt down and what little berries you are able to get. Obviously the honey problem still prevails, unless there are certain amount of honey doses the hive can produce (again, no count reset).

Anything to make the first winter actually mean something.

Man, why don't you just have the Abominable Snow man walk in first day of winter and kill you right off the bat? We actually want the majority of people to be able to make it through the game. Well, maybe not. :chargrined:

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Silvi    27

As a value it could look like this.

An invisible meter from -100 to 100, when you eat something, you lose a set amount on that meter, let's say 5. It regenerates 1 every minute (so you could eat 1 honey each day and still regenerate the value). When the value is beneath 0, you still get fed, but you will lose health based on how negative you are.

Sounds good?

So kinda like nauhtiness in the game, I kinda like how it seems it could work.

Man, why don't you just have the Abominable Snow man walk in first day of winter and kill you right off the bat? We actually want the majority of people to be able to make it through the game. Well, maybe not. :chargrined:

Pf. I'm saying what I'd wish to see in the 'uncompromising survival', being killed by a snowman is a toddlers idea of dificulty.

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Palpetinus    839

So kinda like nauhtiness in the game, I kinda like how it seems it could work.

One addition. It should increase faster over time, so you don't have to wait 10-15 days just to eat honey again.

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Hmmm. So the problem is that honey is super valuable, and that it is relatively easy to set up a self-sustaining honey farm, that provides for two of your three major needs in the game.Making honey itself do less is probably a good idea. I'm thinking that it's healing role could be downplayed, in favour of just plain meat.Slowing production is probably a good balancing step, but it doesn't solve the problem because people will just grind. Again, if honey were less attractive, there would be less of a reason to grind for it...Perhaps the problem is the self-sustaining nature of it. Maybe the beebox should stop working after a while, making honey finite to the world. It isn't neccessary (you can eat other things), but you can ration it out for special occasions. There will always be more comb though the teleportato, if you really want more.Or... as a compromise... maybe the box's production rate should diminish if you harvest it too often. Maybe harvesting should trigger an increasing die-off of bees, which in turn slows production as they regenerate. Currently the optimal strategy is to always harvest honey as soon as it appears. That's not an interesting decision... there should be some strategy involved in planning your harvest.Anyway, just bouncing around ideas. :)

Perhaps you could treat it like the other "farms." In most of the farms you need manure to re-fertilize the grass or the berries after a few cycles.You could make it so that after maybe 20-30 honey produced you have to put a new honeycomb in.

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Palpetinus    839

Perhaps you could treat it like the other "farms." In most of the farms you need manure to re-fertilize the grass or the berries after a few cycles.You could make it so that after maybe 20-30 honey produced you have to put a new honeycomb in.

I think that would make it too finite D:Maybe something else, like berries (irl you give them sugar)

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Silvi    27

Perhaps you could treat it like the other "farms." In most of the farms you need manure to re-fertilize the grass or the berries after a few cycles.You could make it so that after maybe 20-30 honey produced you have to put a new honeycomb in.

Means it's very much finite. But feeding bees with sugar is better though. Just as long as you need to do something to get the feed. Berries in some set amount perhaps?

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Palpetinus    839

Means it's very much finite. But feeding bees with sugar is better though. Just as long as you need to do something to get the feed. Berries in some set amount perhaps?

Hmm, it would even be tech-tree (or production chain) like.First you plant berries for food and after a while you improve yourself by using those berries not for yourself anymore, but for honey.

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_Q_    635

To create some need for farm you could simply add 1 veggie to most Crock Pot recipes like honey ham is 2 meat 1 veggie 1 honey, so after you use all carrots from the world you must build some farms but I'm not sure if its good idea.

And here you have next exploit/easy mode thing:

I built a sort of spider enclosure to farm monster meat and silk. The spiders are forced to wander within the walls and eventually get stuck in the traps, making them easy to harvest. When the den reaches tier 3, I whack it with a boomerang, don a spider hat, and force the spiders to destroy their own house. I then use the hat and their confinement to lead them into the traps (or just kill any stragglers) and plant a new den. With enough traps to ensure the spiders get caught every night there is very minimal damage to the walls, so they don't require much upkeep.

Posted Image

Edited by _Q_

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Silvi    27

Hmm, it would even be tech-tree (or production chain) like.First you plant berries for food and after a while you improve yourself by using those berries not for yourself anymore, but for honey.

so like exchange of berries for honey. Some arbitrary amount of berries -> honey. Considering the value of honey as it is now, the trade seems a better idea than just free honey for all.

To create some need for farm you could simply add 1 veggie to most Crock Pot recipes like honey ham is 2 meat 1 veggie 1 honey, so after you use all carrots from the world you must build some farms but I'm not sure if its good idea.

It's one way to 'fix' it.On topic of changing recepies:the recepie for nuggets should exclude monster meat (it should give something a'la monster lasagne if you use monster meat + 3 honey). As it is now, it's definitely broke. Alternatively allow monster meat but only if it's offset by certain amount of 'vegetableness' in the recepie. Edited by Silvi

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Avelarius    41

I already gave the wasp swarm idea, now what about...

Remove bee boxes.

Replace it with a tool to harvest the hives directly. Maybe just a honey jar.

You will not know how much honey is there until you harvest. Even empty hives will aggro at harvest attempts.

You cannot destroy them anymore so you cannot take combs with you.

You will be limited to the hives in your world.

Hives produce one rogue killer bee a day with a cap of 20.

Harvested hives have a chance to increase production of rogue killer bees. The more you harvest the higher the chance of increased production.

You must have a global killer bee population cap to implement this.

You must implement a way to delete the stings, can be indirect like making something that can be used as fuel in fire pits.

The benefits:

1 - Honey will become a lot harder go get.

2 - No more honey facilities.

3 - No more bee defense system in honey facilities.

4 - No need to change the recipes.

5 - No base near hives due to the high amount of killer bees.

Now someone please draw Wilson full of red spots carrying a jar of honey.

Now that's a nerf. I know it because I am hating myself for giving the idea =)

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Palpetinus    839

I already gave the wasp swarm idea, now what about...

Remove bee boxes.

Replace it with a tool to harvest the hives directly. Maybe just a honey jar.

You will not know how much honey is there until you harvest. Even empty hives will aggro at harvest attempts.

You cannot destroy them anymore so you cannot take combs with you.

You will be limited to the hives in your world.

Hives produce one rogue killer bee a day with a cap of 20.

Harvested hives have a chance to increase production of rogue killer bees. The more you harvest the higher the chance of increased production.

You must have a global killer bee population cap to implement this.

You must implement a way to delete the stings, can be indirect like making something that can be used as fuel in fire pits.

The benefits:

1 - Honey will become a lot harder go get.

2 - No more honey facilities.

3 - No more bee defense system in honey facilities.

4 - No need to change the recipes.

5 - No base near hives due to the high amount of killer bees.

Now someone please draw Wilson full of red spots carrying a jar of honey.

Now that's a nerf. I know it because I am hating myself for giving the idea =)

Meh, that's too hardcore.

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Snob    1272

I already gave the wasp swarm idea, now what about...

Remove bee boxes.

Hey, I've got the solution. Instead of removing bee boxes, how 'bout:

1) Increasing the requirements for making one (for example, it costs 2 honey-cones, 8 bees, and 4 planks to make one)

2) Changing the behavior, similar to the whole "territory guarding" thing

3) Decreasing the speed of honey production

4) Bees actually "poison" the player when successfully stung, players take damage over time (they need to find some medicine/herbs)

5) Introducing a bee suit, completely preventing the poisonous stings

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Avarice    20

Just add a queen bee that dies after a while and you need a new queen, this would replace the honeycomb. It would also be more realistic.I want you to add a nutrition system though, because that would balance all foods regardless of their properties and could create more gameplay opportunities. This has been brought up in other threads, but eating too much of one food would create a debuff of sorts..slow walk speed, less max health, less damage given..etc. Something along those lines, then everyone would have a reason to exploit all food sources which in turn means more exploring (fishing, frog legs, meat, tallbird eggs), more gardening which is fast and easy, and less time standing around making honey ham. :)

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Can we expect to see Apiculture take a spot in any updates? Sure we have basic bee housing now. But its too nice and easy. I practically turned all the natural hives into my own bee-houses, and lived off honey(http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=127375818) for the rest of my days, until I tried to kill a koalaphant. Though you could just cheaply tip toe around and change the max honey given to like 4, it would be much more balance-worthy to add onto it. Make it a job to do, to get your honey, for example, treating the bees with chemicals to make them sting less, in order to have a chance(20%) at extracting the honey without being stung/swarmed, interrupting the gathering, or to create some smoker to calm the bees, allowing you to gather 100% of the time(1minute time frame), with an equivalent exchange of materials needed to make the smoker. Like 2rope and 15 reeds to create a 5-use smoker. This could also tie in with the newest Sanity feature. Infuse the nightmare fuel into the beehive to make special bees that only allow the insane people to harvest their special honey.
From my dead-with-no-responses suggestion.

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Kevin    2591

Wow, there's some great feedback in here!I don't have time to implement anything beyond numerical tweaks for any of this in the short term (roadmap and all), but I like the queen bee / swarm idea a lot. Perhaps after launch.In the short term, here's what I am thinking:Bee boxes are too easy to make, and consolidate in a small area. Making them them recharge a bit slower, and take more comb to create will slow production. Inter-hive fights will enforce some spacing. Bee combat should be buffed a little in general.Honey does too much. Reduce it's healing power (there is meat for that). In general, I think healing is too hard to come by, and too tied to food. Perhaps we need less healing in general, but more player health? I need to think on that.Beefalo drop too many meats (and maybe reproduce too fast) - the expected return on a fighting a herd is too great.Pig houses are bacon farms. The re-pigging time should be increased, and the pigs probably shouldn't be such pushovers in combat against the player. Maybe pig grudges should persist after death? Ie - if you kill a pig anywhere, all of pig-kind hates you for a day.

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_Q_    635

Wow, there's some great feedback in here!I don't have time to implement anything beyond numerical tweaks for any of this in the short term (roadmap and all), but I like the queen bee / swarm idea a lot. Perhaps after launch.In the short term, here's what I am thinking:Bee boxes are too easy to make, and consolidate in a small area. Making them them recharge a bit slower, and take more comb to create will slow production. Inter-hive fights will enforce some spacing. Bee combat should be buffed a little in general.Honey does too much. Reduce it's healing power (there is meat for that). In general, I think healing is too hard to come by, and too tied to food. Perhaps we need less healing in general, but more player health? I need to think on that.Beefalo drop too many meats (and maybe reproduce too fast) - the expected return on a fighting a herd is too great.Pig houses are bacon farms. The re-pigging time should be increased, and the pigs probably shouldn't be such pushovers in combat against the player. Maybe pig grudges should persist after death? Ie - if you kill a pig anywhere, all of pig-kind hates you for a day.

Pig grudges idea is great. Rest of the fixes sound good for short term solution.

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DBM    16

how about a tweak to beeboxes as such:Bee boxes which are overharvested decrease production, until there is almost no honey produced.Bee boxes which are underharvested produce a 'swarm' which needs to go and find a new place to live - they aint happy.Adds a bit more management to them and the risk of being swarmed out if you pay no attention..

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_Q_    635

You can also make bee boxes and pig houses brake a little with every harvest/pig respawn and give some visual signs of structure, and if you don't repair them on time you will lose that structure. That way you must manage your harvest and if you don't you will be left with pile of rubble and will have to build new ones. That with longer respawn and production time, pig grudges persist could be fun.

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