goatt

The Correct Method To Open A Cool Steam Vent (For COLD Water)

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Saturnus    1,838
6 minutes ago, Argelle said:

I do not see CO2 cooling in the OP description. Can you add some picture please?

The CO2 for the carbon skimmer has to come from somewhere. It's not shown in the original post. Getting sufficient CO2 have always been a problem in my opinion, and I'd personally rather use it for recycling into crude oil or petroleum with slickers (regular or molten) but I suppose if you have a CO2 geyser it could be used for this instead.

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Argelle    117

Yes i did :)

The beauty of it (CO2 geyser) is that output not big but very cold (39 g/s but -51.1°C). So I'm fishing for ideas as to handle the transition

solid Co2 -56.5°C ] liquid [ -48.1 °C gas.

I was going for running liquid CO2 on metal tiles to cool another element, but curious as to other players setup.

 

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Saturnus    1,838

The problem with CO2 for cooling is the ultra low SHC. If you for instance want to cool water with it then the CO2 will heat up ~5K for every 1K the water temperature drops using the same mass. So 39g of -51.1C CO2 will cool 39g of 40C water to about 25C.

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On 9/26/2018 at 7:49 AM, Neotuck said:

Just adding my two cents to the topic here but I almost never use cool steam vents as a primary water supply

I always use one steam vent for O2 production with electrolizers.  And the other steam vent is for oil production late game with an oil well.

All the water I use for bathrooms and bristle farms comes from PW produced by dupes, generators, and distillers.  

I'm lucky with my current map as I have 2 slush geysers

beats having 2 slush geysers, 1 cool steam vent and a water geyser in fact this is how much water i still have contained (haven't gotten to the water geyser but it will be fun to make the most out ofimage.thumb.png.284d1167cc167849ce30ac1ec4303765.png

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Tranoze    46

This is no correct method, you must build this in debug mode, SHAME, no ladder around, no gas vent in CO2 charmer, cost to much power and materials in survival for so little amount of water in return. You cant supply enough CO2 for all steam vent in your map.

Even you have full power and CO2 it still inefficient method since you drop 15C water to 90C water to cool them down. At the point you have ability to cool 90C or any type of water to 40C water, what the point of drop water temperature before that...

 

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goatt    44

@tranoze “correct” is subjective.

the reason I did it like this cuz it totally doable. A 4-tile high floor is a normal setup.

For biggest limiting factor, CO2, I’ve done some calculation for a more practical scenario (bottom part of the post). 

This system can also serve more than one purpose. One is that you can find a 90c water pipe easily for other use. Two is that if you shut down Aquatuner, it can also be used for cooling steam to high temp water. And also there is the topic of this post, try to get 26C water with no external Pwater woots ice etc.

for power, since skimmer only produces 1kg/s, it’s limiting the overall power rate. (I optimized aqutuner behavior so it cost the least it could) for mid game, this power bill isn’t too big).

Cuz it was just a design, I figured putting CO2 direction in the chamber is easier for me than putting it in another chamber and pumping it, no difference in result anyway, I was in debugging.

After all, I did just for fun to find out whether or not it has great result. (Personally I most likely won’t use it in my real games). I share my result not only when I succeeded, but also when I see no one has done idea and wanna let people know what it might turn out to be.

Edited by goatt

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Tranoze    46
1 hour ago, goatt said:

for power, since skimmer only produces 1kg/s, it’s limiting the overall power rate. (I optimized aqutuner behavior so it cost the least it could) for mid game, this power bill isn’t too big).

You dont want steam to over pressure nearby tiles if you only use 1kg/s and, half of them, you move back to the vent. If you has a strong cool steam vent, this will be over pressured easily.

1 hour ago, goatt said:

it has great result. (Personally I most likely won’t use it in my real games). I share my result not only when I succeeded, but also when I see no one has done idea and wanna let people know what it might turn out to be.

Many has their own idea, they don't cool water down, they pump them direct to latrine. What i show to you is what is wrong with your current design so you can come up with better, so it allow you to design on your own may help you more.

Power cost is a big problem if you want to build any base to late game, you don't want to use too much power and automation not because it's expensive, you don't want to use them because if you build too much of them, your base lagged out and you cant play anymore. Any pipes system that let less than 10% of the maximum materials goes through are inefficient pipes, cost too much of CPU for a little bit of automation.

Problem about your design is it does not scale well, even 10 CO2 geyser wont supply enough CO2 for that thing, just because CO2 geyser has too low output, as all other gas geyser in the game. That only work if you has 100 dupes to spread CO2 for you, but you wont have enough water to supply them with this current design.

And, CO2 is a very valuable material, convert them to dirt is never a good choice, since you can freely use latrine from dupes to cool hot water down, petroleum is better choice if i wanna use CO2.

Edited by tranoze

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goatt    44
2 hours ago, tranoze said:

What i show to you is what is wrong with your current design

I think what you are saying is the problems YOU will have if you use this in your own game. Then I suggest that don’t use it. I never said I strongly recommend this setup blablabla, I’m just sharing it as a factual result. Some people thinks it’s interesting, some people thinks it’s meh, and I think nearly no one will think it will fit in their system. The fact you expect this system to be improved to be as good as other system for their great advantages means you are missing the point here. It’s not possible. Maybe you were just being polite.

But you have to admit its unique advantage besides its downside. The advantage is mentioned in original post. If you say back to me that “it’s not advantage blablabla”, then I will say back to you, that it doesn’t work for YOU doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a value.

2 hours ago, tranoze said:

You dont want steam to over pressure nearby tiles if you only use 1kg/s and, half of them, you move back to the vent. If you has a strong cool steam vent, this will be over pressured easily.

This doesn’t matter at all. Because at its naturally low processing rate, the system will never use up the water in geyser chamber. Even 1kg/s as system’s output rate is way too overestimated. “never let it over pressure” is not a valid question, “generating low enough temperature allow steam to condense when they can” is the question this system will ask itself.

2 hours ago, tranoze said:

CO2 is a very valuable material

I have to disagree with this. It’s just my opinion. How is it valuable? Does it give something unique that you can’t get in any other way? Does it give you something in a very easy way with large amount of volumn so as to save you a lot of trouble? No it doesn’t do either. Like you said, you can get some petroleum. But it’s just some petroleum. Is that amount of petroleum so critical now? To 100 dupes? What can so much petroleum do? For power, 100 dupes can run, for plastic, they can raise drecko, for natural gas they can fart, then there is oil reservoir. To me CO2 is so useless that you can’t use it other than feeding to slicksters.

Edited by goatt

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Tranoze    46
2 hours ago, goatt said:

I have to disagree with this. It’s just my opinion. How is it valuable? Does it give something unique that you can’t get in any other way? Does it give you something in a very easy way with large amount of volumn so as to save you a lot of trouble? No it doesn’t do either. Like you said, you can get some petroleum. But it’s just some petroleum. Is that amount of petroleum so critical now? To 100 dupes? What can so much petroleum do? For power, 100 dupes can run, for plastic, they can raise drecko, for natural gas they can fart, then there is oil reservoir. To me CO2 is so useless that you can’t use it other than feeding to slicksters.

Wait, you are still on the first version of the game? we are on rocketry update now, do you even plan on long term rocket? If you do, CO2 is the best way to run long term petroleum, they can be convert to petroleum without any power system, and they are free from dupes, unlike clean water.

CO2->petro->infinitive Wheezewort, -> true cooling.

If you doing it water way:

Water->crude oil (need power)->petro->...

A good dupes set up + a full set of slicksters can supply full set of rocket continuously, while you will need much more water than that if you wanna run a rocket. CO2 has no other uses, but water are needed, so each Kg of CO2 you used, you saved 200g of water in rocket, plus, lots of power (720W, oil well and oil refinery) convert them to petro.

CO2 is value not because it can do good things, it is value because it can replace water in this circumstance. 

the 40C output water from sleeve can be abused now, but later on, if they fix/change to true temperature, it wont work anymore.

Edited by tranoze

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goatt    44
35 minutes ago, tranoze said:

Wait, you are still on the first version of the game? we are on rocketry update now, do you even plan on long term rocket? If you do, CO2 is the best way to run long term petroleum, they can be convert to petroleum without any power system, and they are free from dupes, unlike clean water.

CO2->petro->infinitive Wheezewort, -> true cooling.

If you doing it water way:

Water->crude oil (need power)->petro->...

A good dupes set up + a full set of slicksters can supply full set of rocket continuously, while you will need much more water than that if you wanna run a rocket. CO2 has no other uses, but water are needed, so each Kg of CO2 you used, you saved 200g of water in rocket, plus, lots of power (720W, oil well and oil refinery) convert them to petro.

CO2 is value not because it can do good things, it is value because it can replace water in this circumstance. 

the 40C output water from sleeve can be abused now, but later on, if they fix/change to true temperature, it wont work anymore.

Oh whoa you can get woots else where? I’m in Rocketry but also it messed up my game. Remember the guy whose game kept crashing? That was me. So I could only play with game mechanisms.

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Tranoze    46
3 hours ago, goatt said:

Oh whoa you can get woots else where? I’m in Rocketry but also it messed up my game. Remember the guy whose game kept crashing? That was me. So I could only play with game mechanisms.

Yes, i got crash too (once per 200 cycles, start at cycle 600++), that why all my design or solution, has to, either very compact and CPU efficiently, or i wont touch them at all. (if i dont do so, game will crash every 2 cycles at the cycle 600++).

That why im very strict on all design, even 100W of power is very value because i dont want to build more than 10 power generator in my base.

So my suggestion for you, use less resources for the same work, and you ll be able to play Rocketry. Just because it can get the job done doesnt mean put it in your world is a good idea.

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goatt    44

@tranoze Now I can understand why you are so restrict on designs.

And no I'm not gonna touch ONI until next patch, I've suffered too much. I'm scared. Or PTSD lol? I tried too many time after crashing. I'm just tired. Ima just play with debugging mode when i have new ideas. Thx for the suggestion tho. I like to play creativity, do things a little different every time, if I have to get used to the CPU efficient way, there is much less fun for me. Maybe I'll try building a rocket in debugging mode.

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