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Perpetual_Sin

Thoughts / discussion on adventure mode as it currently stands.

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This post is gonna be long. You were warned. :)First of all, I'd like to state that I'm a huge fan of this game and have been hugely impressed with the quick updates, the interaction the developers provide with the fans, and the beta overall.I have had this game for months, monitor these forums daily, yet choose to keep my posts to a minimum.I'm fully aware this game is in beta, its a work in progress and what i'm currently playing isn't the full dev vision realised.However i would like to share my thoughts on the current state of adventure mode and try if i may, to provide constructive ideas / suggestions for its improvement.I would like to touch on what i percieve to be flaws in its current design, and would like to hear if others agree with me, and what their own thoughts on adventure mode may be.So without further ado...Problem 1 : There is no incentive to spend any significant length of time in each world, beyond the first.As it stands adventure mode can be completed in these easy steps.1. Build a tophat. This requires the destruction of 4 to 5 lvl 1 spider nests, for 10 silk. Insanity is now a non issue, even at night. 2. Gather enough grass and saplings for 2 torches, for each night cycle. Easy number is 40 of each.3. Gather wood, for cooking fires and if needed materials for science machine and wooden armour.4. Explore the length of the map, collecting seeds, berries, and carrots as you go. Hunger is now a non issue.(I tend to trace the islands outlines at night when visibility is low, and fill in the middle portions during the day.)5. Locate wooden thing, or components of wooden thing. Finding one indicates the proximity of the other as they all spawn close together. 6. Gather components, activate the gate.6. Repeat steps 3 - 6.As you can see, in its current state its far to easy to progress and there is little incentive to linger in each world.-Suggestions to counter act this style of play-1. Scatter the wooden things parts around the world, instead of spawning them all close together. 2. Have the parts linked to difficult monsters, events or locations.Perhaps a certain part got lodged in a spider queens webbing, so not only do you have to deal with the fact that you have that confrontation looming, but the part is now also mobile and moving around the island.Another part could be hidden in a little glade guarded by tree guards, a hostile tribe of pig men, a swamp over flowing with tentacles, the options are endless.3. As the worlds progress, make food far more scarse. Forcing some form of cultivation / gathering.This game is called don't starve, and yet it constantly throws food at me.Nature seems to be on my side, not against me. Birds constantly drop seeds for me, berry bushes and carrots are around every corner. I would go as far to say its harder to starve than it is to not starve.I'd like to see worlds where there are no berry bushes and planted carrots.4. Make wormholes the only way to reach certain landmasses instead of using them as shortcuts.At the moment the benefit they provide is so miniscule that they aren't worth using.Using wormholes as the only means of transport to an unknown island section, while sanity also takes a hit, is far more thought provoking and concerning than a "don't actually need to use you" shortcut.5. Extend the players duration in each world. Perhaps the portal has a charge up peroid, perhaps one needs to be powered with nightmare fuel, these are just some ways of extending the length of time players stay in each world. Problem 2.The worlds all feel the same and play the same.Once you have seen one world and seen its enviroment at play. You will understand all worlds. You know the rules and you know how to beat them.The pigs in world 1, are always the same as pigs in world 2. They follow the same rules.Sure currently theres some slight variations to biomes, premade traps, pig forts, burnt trees, killer bees, but they all mechanically work the same as other worlds.All follow the same rules and are no cause for alarm.Traps, don't hurt the player and are able to be picked up, so you are basically handing players the tools to easily deal with hound attacks.Pig forts also help the player, by allowing for less time to get setup.Burnt trees often drop pinecones to allow for new growth. No issue.Killer bees can be easily out run. ( Hint : If you made armour reduce movement speed, that would make combat interesting and kiting something to gamble on, without the protection of armour.)They all follow the same rules of the previous worlds.If the rules don't change, then everything is predictable and easily understood and dealt with.All i can really suggest here is to change things up. Perhaps the pigs of one world are always aggressive, perhaps they have become more refined, wear tophats and can only be hired for the finest crockpot meals.What if a world had aggressive bunnies, spider dens that spawn warrior spiders at night? By changing the rules and making each world feel a little foreign to a player, you can always keep them slighty on edge.In the efforts of not making this post a full length novel, i'll leave it there.But i'd like to hear what others thoughts are on adventure mode and how they would like to see it progress.

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taciturn    18

Nice read, agree. Some kind of Mutations on behaviours of various stuff to make it worth your while to switch worlds, or at least more difficult the first time.Also, the samey worlds and samey content means you are not likely to explore a given world at all once you locate Chester, the King, some spider nests and have access to beefalo and bees. Why would you? It is not like there are any surprises hidden out there any more. At least not until you need the Wooden Thing, in which case you will run around the same swamps, meadows and forests you are used to, encountering the same rabbits, pigs, tentacles and spiders you are used to. Why are there not some rare or unique things you can find as a reward for actually exploring? Unique animals. Something refreshing!The game needs to surprise you a bit now and then. Even if it is just with pseudorandom stuff.

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Valkama    10

Well as far as the samey worlds go, kevin said somewhere that he wanted to fix that.Scattering the parts around the world would be super obnoxious because it first requires you to explore every inch of the world and then if you missed one well good luck finding it. They shouldn't be scattered randomly, they need to have some logic or sense to where they spawn.

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Snob    1272

They shouldn't be scattered randomly, they need to have some logic or sense to where they spawn.

I agree, it would be a quite tedious process of exploring the whole island. The damn "things" should spawn in the center of different biomes.What I mean is; they should be located near each other, while having the players to explore certain areas/biomes knowing that that piece is there.

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Noxhe    12

1. Build a tophat. This requires the destruction of 4 to 5 lvl 1 spider nests, for 10 silk. Insanity is now a non issue, even at night.

I want to guess they're doing exactly what they did with food spoilage; they're keeping the insanity meter from depleting too quickly so players can adjust to it, and they'll likely change it over future updates. Because honestly even without the top hat it's incredibly easy to keep your sanity up unless you actually try to make it go down. Edited by Noxhe

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FlowerChild    8

With regards to using the wooden thing for the next level:The impression I get is having the components scattered in the world is just temporary placeholder. What I suspect they're going to do is make the components (or some of them) research items that require a large amount of resources to build.For example, the golden ring could be made out of a large amount of gold, the wooden switch wood, maybe the head out of stone, etc.This also fits better with some of the character dialogue about the thing.Anyways, as the developer stated adventure mode is very preliminary. What I'm hoping to eventually see is to have various game elements scattered throughout the different worlds to slowly introduce them to the player and to provide world specific challenges. For example, maybe berry bushes are only available in the first world or two, but pigs and beefalo don't make an appearance until worlds 2 or 3 (so you are basically forced to forage initially and can only build farms on later levels). Maybe gold isn't available until later levels requiring you to survive with just basic technology in the initial worlds.I think this would create much better pacing overall and give a unique feel to each of the worlds, and again, I suspect this may be the overall direction they're heading in. My impression is that they've been throwing all the game content at us at once up until now for testing purposes, are now beginning to work on the overall pacing of the game, and will begin to restrict when and where everything is accessible.

Edited by FlowerChild
typos

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Addle    10

Perhaps extra tiers of item could become accessible only after going through a certain amount of worlds? For example: Player spawns in World 1, has access to only basic survival tools, can only make what s/he needs. Nearby the spawn is the wooden thing, and you must craft the different components, as to introduce the mechanic. You go through, World 2 gives you access to new items (Perhaps things like the Dark Sword and Nightmare Light). Etc., etc.I'm sure there would be some problems with that type of system, but it's just a hypothetical suggestion.

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Diezen    125

I have a feeling the current adventure mode is just the tip of the iceberg, since they are testing out how well it'll work having the world escape portals and new generations of the worlds with slight differences. I am hoping a lot more will be added with the story once they develop that more. This is just the taste of what is yet to come. It would be pretty neat to just escape into a world that is just constant winter too, hehe. Betting there will be more variations like that.

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Irontaco    136

The perfect way i would see it would be if the parts were broken or something, like if Maxwell wants you to work hard to get out.Maybe depending on how much progress you got, the more broken parts there are, and you need some resources to repair them.For example, you find a broken ring, your character examines it and says ''It seems to be missing something.'' And what's missing from it should be some really hard to get item. Maybe from a unique boss. Some could be easier. Requring some lenghts of rope, maybe some gold, or something else.But it should be dynamic as possible to keep the experience fresh, maybe not letting the game make the player search for the same boss in every world to get certain material for certain thing.Or you could find notes written by Maxwell that tell you some hint on how to fix certain item. Let's say you started your adventure. You find a note nearby after Maxwell speaks to you.''Liking this new enviorement, pal? I made it myself. After our little...disagreement, i'm afraid i had to put you in here. but of course, i'm not a bad man, no no, you can go back to your normal life. But i won't make it easy for you.There may be some kind of wooden ring around here. It may help you.-Maxwell''So after a few days of camping and surviving you manage to find the wooden thing. You search for the parts and you come along the broken crank, that also has a note next to it.''This crank, and you can see, my friend, is made of the strongest wood in this world. Maybe you could find some from those giant trees with legs. Good luck doing, it, pal, you'll really need it!-Maxwell''Then you have to infuriate a treeguard to get that special kind of wood. You finish up your task and go to the next world, which is darker and has less resources. You find a note at your feet.''I'm impressed, young gentleman, you actually managed to defeat and kill a legendary treeguard. As you can see this new place seems to be a little bit more...not convenient. I wouldn't be in here for long if i was you!-Maxwell''You go and find the wooden thing again, the ring thing is broken and has a note next to it.''The broken ring you found, my friend, is made of the purest form of gold in this world. You could 'maybe' try to find some of it in some kind of cave. What's inside is not my problem.-Maxwell''Then you gotta try to find that certain cave.Then, after enough worlds are progressed, Maxwell could slowly go more and more desperate trying to stop you, and the notes could be more grim.''This journey is near the end, my friend. And you won't finish it easily. You sure are a determined gentleman to have been able to survive this long. The wooden thing you found is broken, and repairing it ain't easy, pal. Did you see those markings on it? The wood is covered in peculiar markings, made from the blood of the strongest creature around here. And some wood, yes, some wood. Too bad some bad, bad person didn't look well after his campfire and ended up burning up most of the trees around here.What a shame, isn't it? See you later, if you can fix that thing.''You do all the stuff you can to fix the wooden thing, and it starts working. Suddenly, the potato head dispenses a note, and the machine breaks down.''I can't let you out of here, i simply can't. The fact that you managed to survive this long...Let's say that it really frightened me out. You could 'try' to fix the machine again. And i'll give you the hint to you straight. What comes from (some kind of decipherable puzzle) (blah blah)?Let's see how smart you actually are. I'm sorry, my friend.''So you finally get the materials and fix up the machines after some days. You had to camp a lot. You barely survived. You finally get to Maxwell and then the final starts....Maybe?

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Ridley    610

I love that Original Post, agree with every point for the most part. I mostly just want some uniqueness from each world. If pigs always acted the same then there's not much fun in that.

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SwiftShadow2    18

The perfect way i would see it would be if the parts were broken or something, like if Maxwell wants you to work hard to get out.Maybe depending on how much progress you got, the more broken parts there are, and you need some resources to repair them.For example, you find a broken ring, your character examines it and says ''It seems to be missing something.'' And what's missing from it should be some really hard to get item. Maybe from a unique boss. Some could be easier. Requring some lenghts of rope, maybe some gold, or something else.But it should be dynamic as possible to keep the experience fresh, maybe not letting the game make the player search for the same boss in every world to get certain material for certain thing.Or you could find notes written by Maxwell that tell you some hint on how to fix certain item. Let's say you started your adventure. You find a note nearby after Maxwell speaks to you.''Liking this new enviorement, pal? I made it myself. After our little...disagreement, i'm afraid i had to put you in here. but of course, i'm not a bad man, no no, you can go back to your normal life. But i won't make it easy for you.There may be some kind of wooden ring around here. It may help you.-Maxwell''So after a few days of camping and surviving you manage to find the wooden thing. You search for the parts and you come along the broken crank, that also has a note next to it.''This crank, and you can see, my friend, is made of the strongest wood in this world. Maybe you could find some from those giant trees with legs. Good luck doing, it, pal, you'll really need it!-Maxwell''Then you have to infuriate a treeguard to get that special kind of wood. You finish up your task and go to the next world, which is darker and has less resources. You find a note at your feet.''I'm impressed, young gentleman, you actually managed to defeat and kill a legendary treeguard. As you can see this new place seems to be a little bit more...not convenient. I wouldn't be in here for long if i was you!-Maxwell''You go and find the wooden thing again, the ring thing is broken and has a note next to it.''The broken ring you found, my friend, is made of the purest form of gold in this world. You could 'maybe' try to find some of it in some kind of cave. What's inside is not my problem.-Maxwell''Then you gotta try to find that certain cave.Then, after enough worlds are progressed, Maxwell could slowly go more and more desperate trying to stop you, and the notes could be more grim.''This journey is near the end, my friend. And you won't finish it easily. You sure are a determined gentleman to have been able to survive this long. The wooden thing you found is broken, and repairing it ain't easy, pal. Did you see those markings on it? The wood is covered in peculiar markings, made from the blood of the strongest creature around here. And some wood, yes, some wood. Too bad some bad, bad person didn't look well after his campfire and ended up burning up most of the trees around here.What a shame, isn't it? See you later, if you can fix that thing.''You do all the stuff you can to fix the wooden thing, and it starts working. Suddenly, the potato head dispenses a note, and the machine breaks down.''I can't let you out of here, i simply can't. The fact that you managed to survive this long...Let's say that it really frightened me out. You could 'try' to fix the machine again. And i'll give you the hint to you straight. What comes from (some kind of decipherable puzzle) (blah blah)?Let's see how smart you actually are. I'm sorry, my friend.''So you finally get the materials and fix up the machines after some days. You had to camp a lot. You barely survived. You finally get to Maxwell and then the final starts....Maybe?

This. All of this, or at least some of it, needs to happen. If Klei has to put us through torture with puzzles, Maxwell should be even more "puzzling". Seeing as he is based off a puzzle himself.. (Maxwell's Demon)

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Palpetinus    839

This. All of this, or at least some of it, needs to happen. If Klei has to put us through torture with puzzles, Maxwell should be even more "puzzling". Seeing as he is based off a puzzle himself.. (Maxwell's Demon)

Well, Maxwell's Demon is an experiment, isn't it?

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Silvi    27

-Suggestions to counter act this style of play- 1. Scatter the wooden things parts around the world, instead of spawning them all close together. 2. Have the parts linked to difficult monsters, events or locations. Perhaps a certain part got lodged in a spider queens webbing, so not only do you have to deal with the fact that you have that confrontation looming, but the part is now also mobile and moving around the island. Another part could be hidden in a little glade guarded by tree guards, a hostile tribe of pig men, a swamp over flowing with tentacles, the options are endless. 3. As the worlds progress, make food far more scarse. Forcing some form of cultivation / gathering.

While I love that idea, it kinda discourages some turtle players from venturing furhter. If there was, however, a reward behind going to the next world (for example, mobs that are only present in world 2 and above, 3 and above and so on) there would be an incentive to go through hurdles. If the only outcome of next world is that it is HARDER people will just marinate in the first world. Unless there is story progression etc. which I suppose will arrive soon.

Killer bees can be easily out run. ( Hint : If you made armour reduce movement speed, that would make combat interesting and kiting something to gamble on, without the protection of armour.)

Yes. This. I feel like the log armor is a little OP at times, but making kiting entirely impossible is too harsh. This is a nice medium ground.

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Wow, alot of good ideas here.Also thanks for the feedback guys, I appreciate it.I think the suggestion to craft or fix certain parts for the portal is a good one and could lengthen the stay in each world.I also like the idea that the adventure mode needs a bit of a narrative injection. It would be nice to feel like each world has some sort of history, or that by traversing it you are completing some kind of story arc / puzzle.I feel like sandbox mode is about crafting your own stories, where as adventure mode needs some sort of narrative pull to keep you focused on progression.Finding old papyrus scrolls with clues from maxwell, or old diaries from others that have perished in that world, could spice things up a bit.

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Alia    24

Great thread! 1 & 2. We have some blockers (hard areas or pre-reqs) you need to pass to keep exploring in development at the moment, if I get time before next push I will fix the broken placement of the Teleportato parts.3. This is something that we have to address in the next month, tuning and retuning the balance for not only the adventure mode but also sandbox too. To make any real progress we will have to wait for winter as it will unbalance everything we have :) I agree with the constant food problem too. Its going to be tough to balance I expect. 4. We are working on this one, currently it is possible for the worldgen to create land that isn't connected at all to the main landmass, this is less than optimal :p Combining it with winter will make it harder for any Tophat carriers and they may feel a little chilly. 5. I really like this one, it makes the portal a little more interesting to play; We are toying with the idea that the portal can also influence the world that you go to next, maybe with the use of different parts. [MENTION=10553]FlowerChild[/MENTION]'s suggestion of making the parts is a good idea too.In general we are in the process of trying to make the worlds less similar. Mostly its a content thing, as we are able to add more 'rooms' to our generation set we can start leaving some of them out all together.A.

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FlowerChild    8

5. I really like this one, it makes the portal a little more interesting to play; We are toying with the idea that the portal can also influence the world that you go to next, maybe with the use of different parts. [MENTION=10553]FlowerChild[/MENTION]'s suggestion of making the parts is a good idea too.

Woot! Explicitly mentioned by a dev with my first post to the forums.<dances> :)Glad to see the devs took notice of this thread man. I absolutely love what you've done with Don't Starve so far, and am very interested in seeing how you tie it all together with adventure mode. Creating linear gameplay within an open ended game like DS without it feeling too artificial is an interesting design challenge, which is probably why I decided to create an account specifically to respond to this thread.

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Diezen    125

Great thread! 1 & 2. We have some blockers (hard areas or pre-reqs) you need to pass to keep exploring in development at the moment, if I get time before next push I will fix the broken placement of the Teleportato parts.3. This is something that we have to address in the next month, tuning and retuning the balance for not only the adventure mode but also sandbox too. To make any real progress we will have to wait for winter as it will unbalance everything we have :) I agree with the constant food problem too. Its going to be tough to balance I expect. 4. We are working on this one, currently it is possible for the worldgen to create land that isn't connected at all to the main landmass, this is less than optimal :p Combining it with winter will make it harder for any Tophat carriers and they may feel a little chilly. 5. I really like this one, it makes the portal a little more interesting to play; We are toying with the idea that the portal can also influence the world that you go to next, maybe with the use of different parts. [MENTION=10553]FlowerChild[/MENTION]'s suggestion of making the parts is a good idea too.In general we are in the process of trying to make the worlds less similar. Mostly its a content thing, as we are able to add more 'rooms' to our generation set we can start leaving some of them out all together.A.

Would be interesting if there would be worlds with strange and possibly challenge mutations put to them. Maybe a reversal of day and night, having to avoid the sun and create dark versions of fires and light or else you'd get burned like the opposite of GRU (maybe utilizing caves in future versions), a version of a world where food spoils faster and crops have half the fertilization and uses than normal, etc.So many neat ideas can be made for this game... it's great.

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I agree with the thread completely , Being a strong player as I am , If i wanted to I could live beyond 500 days without no challenge (I mainly do this for characters, i have a save that is for when alot of characters come out I'll unlock them all (or just a ,i'm bored lets be OP save)I'd love adventure mode if It actually wanted me to stay in that world for long and then move worlds at a percific time.Now I agree with your ideas of having some kind of percific ingredient to make me advance , like you said , Nightmare fuel.This would FORCE me to risk my life by going insane and pouring in my hard work to go to the next world , and to make people actually go , if they don't go before 20 days , The grue will come out at night and attack you every day until you die OR you go insane and get that fuel. OR you can give them a reward for advancing in some way (Double the XP for beating 10 worlds)But I wholeheartedly agree with everything you've said , nice observations :p

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