BlueLance Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 isnt 2000kj but 2kw? or am I doing the math wrong? A good electrolyzer setup can generate that much (Obviously multiple electrolyzers) and that is sustainable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheDuck Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 33 minutes ago, Saturnus said: You can... well for liquid pumps any way. How? As far as i know pumps will overheat at 75°C/125°C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djoums Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 33 minutes ago, BlueLance said: isnt 2000kj but 2kw? or am I doing the math wrong? A good electrolyzer setup can generate that much (Obviously multiple electrolyzers) and that is sustainable 2000000 / 600 = 3.33kW. Each electrolyzer adds to the global power requirement so that's a lot of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpongledd Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 I power my (main) base with 2 NG Power Plants and 1 Hydrogen Plant (with buffs) (consuming around 2.5kW to 5kW) my space base is powered by coal generators and soon by solar (around 0.7kW 1.5kW) im 2100 Cycles in, never had power shortage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 hour ago, WhatTheDuck said: How? As far as i know pumps will overheat at 75°C/125°C Like this. You exploit that there's a difference between where the pump detects a liquid and it's suction range. The detection range is a 2x2 square, and the suction range is a 5 tile + shape. The 200g petroleum here is in the detection range but not in the suction range. The magma is in the suction range but not in the detection range. The pump is tricked into pumping the magma because it detects the petroleum. If left in a vacuum the pump would slowly but surely overheat. To prevent that you have two gas tiles. One with a very small amount of chlorine, here 1mg. And one with a small amount of hydrogen, here 100g. Note that if the ratio between the gas mass is greater than 1:100000 then the gas with the smallest amount gets deleted. So this is the limit. Now with a very small amount of basically insulating chlorine the pump is cooled by the much larger amount of hydrogen. From here it's a simple matter of just keeping the hydrogen cool which can be done in many different ways. Note: do not try to use temp shift plates anywhere in such a set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Djoums said: 2000000 / 600 = 3.33kW. Each electrolyzer adds to the global power requirement so that's a lot of them. ok so 2000kj isnt 2kw? that s what I was asking XD Also hydrogen is 800 not 600. But what the heck would you need 200kw for? that 10 heavi watt wires worth of load.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 minute ago, BlueLance said: ok so 2000kj isnt 2kw? that s what I was asking XD 1W = 1Js (Joule second) so without knowing the timeframe it's impossible to make the conversion from J to W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djoums Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 minute ago, BlueLance said: ok so 2000kj isnt 2kw? that s what I was asking XD Also hydrogen is 800 not 600. But what the heck would you need 200kw for? that 10 heavi watt wires worth of load.... 1 watt is 1 joule produced per second. If you want to get 2000kj in one cycle, you need to produce 3333 joules per second for 600 sec, aka 3.33kW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 14 minutes ago, Djoums said: 1 watt is 1 joule produced per second. If you want to get 2000kj in one cycle, you need to produce 3333 joules per second for 600 sec, aka 3.33kW. 14 minutes ago, Saturnus said: 1W = 1Js (Joule second) so without knowing the timeframe it's impossible to make the conversion from J to W. Ahh ok now it makes sense, now i understand why you divided it by 600. Sorry I never really understood how the whole joules etc worked. But true that would need to be 3 upgraded gens or 6 normal gens which would need a fair amount of hydriogen, I could probably run 3 but not 6 with my design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggbert Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 The entire point of the re-balance is to force us to use a mixture of all available power sources, and to encourage us to build with an eye toward efficiency. At end game Steam and Solar eventually gives you a massive power base that you can still supplement with coal, natural gas, and good old fashion oil burning (as opposed to boiling) if you are stingy about the ingredients/labor required. Natural gas, Petroleum, and Hydrogen cisterns can be built up to give you a nice buffer for when you need to do something big, or you have an unexpected interruption to your power source. I think we have everything we need to be honest. What you seem to want is just a settings menu option to make the natural gas geysers give steady output and never go dormant, that should be easy enough for Klei to do if they have not already, or a simple mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asaioki Posted September 21, 2018 Author Share Posted September 21, 2018 Hmm sounds like most of power sources aren't either reliable or they rely on certain bugs. As far as the aquatuner bug is concerned i am not really concerned by using it since IRL we are pretty much capable of creating very high temperatures with just power and without the need of external heat sources. And we have lots of machinery IRL capable of not breaking at high temperatures. Seems kind of silly that you can't heat up anything above 125 degrees Celsius with only machinery or 175 in the aquatuner's case if it weren't bugged. Anyway that's just one man's opinion on that matter So correct me if i am wrong but from what i've seen the best solutions to my needs are: Steam power (using aqua tuner bug, which might be fixed) Petroleum power (using aqua tuner bug, which might be fixed) Mix of many unreliable power sources to make it more reliable (of which solar seems the most reliable and sustainable) 29 minutes ago, greggbert said: The entire point of the re-balance is to force us to use a mixture of all available power sources, and to encourage us to build with an eye toward efficiency. At end game Steam and Solar eventually gives you a massive power base that you can still supplement with coal, natural gas, and good old fashion oil burning (as opposed to boiling) if you are stingy about the ingredients/labor required. Natural gas, Petroleum, and Hydrogen cisterns can be built up to give you a nice buffer for when you need to do something big, or you have an unexpected interruption to your power source. I think we have everything we need to be honest. What you seem to want is just a settings menu option to make the natural gas geysers give steady output and never go dormant, that should be easy enough for Klei to do if they have not already, or a simple mod. Oh i agree with you, I am not saying that that the balance is wrong or anything, currently the things i prefer in a power source is kind of opposed to what the balance is i can see that. However i am just asking around to see whether there are power options within the way the game is right now that i might have overlooked that do suit my preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheDuck Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Saturnus said: Like this. You exploit that there's a difference between where the pump detects a liquid and it's suction range. The detection range is a 2x2 square, and the suction range is a 5 tile + shape. The 200g petroleum here is in the detection range but not in the suction range. The magma is in the suction range but not in the detection range. The pump is tricked into pumping the magma because it detects the petroleum. If left in a vacuum the pump would slowly but surely overheat. To prevent that you have two gas tiles. One with a very small amount of chlorine, here 1mg. And one with a small amount of hydrogen, here 100g. Note that if the ratio between the gas mass is greater than 1:100000 then the gas with the smallest amount gets deleted. So this is the limit. Now with a very small amount of basically insulating chlorine the pump is cooled by the much larger amount of hydrogen. From here it's a simple matter of just keeping the hydrogen cool which can be done in many different ways. Note: do not try to use temp shift plates anywhere in such a set up. Oh : (, i try to not use any exploits, but thx for the info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 It is best to use multiple forms of power generation, It is what I do, but currently I struggle to use all my hydrogen, and then lets not even go there with natural gas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 24 minutes ago, WhatTheDuck said: Oh : (, i try to not use any exploits, but thx for the info Not much of an exploit. This doesn't rely on any bugs at all. It's just using (abusing if you will) the game mechanics. I'd also rank it as medium to high difficulty in setting this up in a survival game, and it only works with the miniature pump so you have to build more than one to get decent throughput. I think it's perfectly reasonable that if you can set this up in a survival game then you should be able to. The average player would probably never get to a point were they could build it even with a step by step guide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheDuck Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 I dont want to blame anyone for using exploits or abusing game mechanics, its a singeplayer game and every should play how they prefer it. But i wont use it : ), but thx anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnis Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Free breathing electrolyzer produces 880watts of hydrogen per 120watts of electrolysis, For +660watt/1kg water. The hydrogen drifts to The top to Be collected without filter or thru mech filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, WhatTheDuck said: I dont want to blame anyone for using exploits or abusing game mechanics, its a singeplayer game and every should play how they prefer it. It's ok. You play as you like. This being an early access game I don't see a point in playing without using the game mechanics and exploiting bugs. If no one tested the limits of the game and taking things to the extreme then Klei would have nothing to show for all their work. It's a vital part of the game development that the game is thoroughly tested before it is released. 11 minutes ago, Carnis said: Free breathing electrolyzer produces 880watts of hydrogen per 120watts of electrolysis, For +660watt/1kg water. The hydrogen drifts to The top to Be collected without filter or thru mech filter. You're not counting the liquid pump needed to supply the water, or the gas pump to actually pump away the hydrogen from the top to actually be useful? The actual power consumption of a free standing electrolyzer is 198W per 888g of oxygen. In a free standing electrolyzer there will be a fairly large percentage of the hydrogen being deleted. Hard to access without testing the actual set up but at least 10-15% will be deleted. so the actual surplus is much lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnis Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, Saturnus said: It's ok. You play as you like. This being an early access game I don't see a point in playing without using the game mechanics and exploiting bed. You're not counting the liquid pump needed to supply the water, or the gas pump to actually pump away the hydrogen from the top to actually be useful? 10kg/10 so 24w. 500g/5 so 48w. 660- 72, still good 588w/1kg, no setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Carnis said: 660- 72, still good 588w/1kg, no setup. Except a lot of dupes. Without dupes to consume the oxygen fast enough, no power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimgaw Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Saturnus said: Without dupes to consume the oxygen fast enough, no power. Space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asaioki Posted September 21, 2018 Author Share Posted September 21, 2018 I came up with this petroleum power plant its pretty much self sufficient the only thing it pretty much requires is oil from somewhere and not lots of it. It can pretty much live on 1 oil reservoir. The other thing it requires is a coolant liquid i chose pwater from a slush geyser, but the liquid is only about 4 degrees warmer after going thru the loop so that's not too bad imo. It does rely on aqua tuners not breaking however. EDIT: It's also producing some NG from the reservoir which can be used for even more power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlineous Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 On 20-9-2018 at 6:09 PM, asaioki said: Petroleum: Since i stated that the oil refinery consumes too much dupe time imo, i tried an petroleum cooker which worked pretty decent with creating power, however it had 1 flaw: it ran of magma. And it turned out that a volcano created too little thermal energy for it to keep running and since I don't want to rely on natural magma since this was a dead end as well. I kind of doubt that a volcano does not create enough thermal energy. I cook my crude oil to petroleum using a gold volcano, and they tend to produce less heat. The key is recapturing as much heat as possible. Heat exchangers are really useful in a lot of setups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asaioki Posted September 21, 2018 Author Share Posted September 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, onlineous said: I kind of doubt that a volcano does not create enough thermal energy. I cook my crude oil to petroleum using a gold volcano, and they tend to produce less heat. The key is recapturing as much heat as possible. Heat exchangers are really useful in a lot of setups. Well i guess that depends on how much oil you want to cook and how consisent, i'm pretty sure i am not wasting any heat in my design that you can see in my previous post, i tried using a volcano as well but it just cools down too quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Solar energy is a very decent power source. However, it requires tons of set up and is basically late to end game. The biggest cost is steel as you will have to create bunker doors. Also you will need dozens and dozens of batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnis Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 2 hours ago, onlineous said: I kind of doubt that a volcano does not create enough thermal energy. I cook my crude oil to petroleum using a gold volcano, and they tend to produce less heat. The key is recapturing as much heat as possible. Heat exchangers are really useful in a lot of setups. Pictures & flowrate please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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