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18 minutes ago, psusi said:

How does that work again?  Why can the liquid not push the air back up in that little pocket?

One element per tile rule. There's 2 different gases. They can switch places but they both exclude liquids in their respective tiles. So when a liquid falls through the gases it cannot go anywhere. The liquid lock at the top keeps the gases in because there is no such thing as pressure checks between liquids and gases.

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@tzionut

Oh, I have no doubt that just submerging the conveyor receiver directly in magma is a faster and less power hungry way of melting regolith into magma.  This was the first thing that I actually experimented with.  The reason that I've decided to go with a sweeper arm moving the regolith from the conveyor receiver to a storage compactor (It's not dropping regolith in the magma directly, by the way.) is because the design is more throttle-able and I'm not going for melting as much of the regolith as possible.

 

Mostly, my mail goal with the design is to actually amplify the the thermal output of any particular volcano by simply being able to slap the above proto-type that I'm tinkering with to it's side.  For that, you need something that's more controllable then simply submerging a conveyor receiver in a molten pool of magma.  A good thermal exchanger with the incoming regolith and the outgoing igneous rock is also key in efficiently using the volcano's heat.   

 

In the end, all it's really for is my pipe-dream of being able to run a steam turbine forever non-stop off of the renewable heat of a volcano without resorting to tricking the thing with a tiny tile of hot chlorine.  :D   

@psusi

There is no renewable heat in the pools of magma at the bottom of the map.  There's just so much magma that yes, it just takes a rather long time to go through it and reduce it's temperature to its freezing point.  But, their heat eventually does run out.  

@wachunga

You're right about the property of the pipe being insulated that makes it work rather then it being ceramic.  I believe before I actually tested with an obsidian insulated pipe instead and it worked just fine.  In any case, I'd argue that accuracy isn't that big of an issue when measuring temperatures above 300C anyway.  We just need to know that the temperature of X isn't about to either boil away or freeze when we don't want it too.  I'd say, in most cases, this measurement only really needs to be 'in the ballpark' and not necessarily exact.  Granite pipe will also melt in a pool of magma anyway, although obviously not in a pool of petroleum. 

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For that, you need something that's more controllable then simply submerging a conveyor receiver in a molten pool of magma. 

You can't control the output but you can control the input.

 If you use the doors to move all the smashed regolith to one tile, my idea it that instead of of that tile is a canal to the magma biom. So the regolith drop from the surface to the magma part of the map. There you have the sweep arm where you send the iron up for use it and the regolith down to be melted.. once the sensor detect that magma is cool enough, the door open and sweep arm is disabled so you prevent to send in  excess regolith and go under the solidify temp.

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One element per tile rule. There's 2 different gases. They can switch places but they both exclude liquids in their respective tiles. So when a liquid falls through the gases it cannot go anywhere. The liquid lock at the top keeps the gases in because there is no such thing as pressure checks between liquids and gases.

You are right. Is faster than the door compressor, but the setup in survival is harder to make it.

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4 hours ago, Saturnus said:

One element per tile rule. There's 2 different gases. They can switch places but they both exclude liquids in their respective tiles. So when a liquid falls through the gases it cannot go anywhere. The liquid lock at the top keeps the gases in because there is no such thing as pressure checks between liquids and gases.

So why does it take two gasses?

 

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1 hour ago, psusi said:

So why does it take two gasses?

The idea is that the water wants to go up.  It tells the gas above it to try to move.  The gas can't because it can't merge with the pocket above it and it can't move to the sides, so everything stays and the water can't expand.  I build these around my steam geysers and I build them in to my earliest septic systems. 

Also, you need a ledge to create a "waterfall".

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Also, you need a ledge to create a "waterfall".

Zarquan you are right but is more difficult to do it in survival mode. For make my sandbox build model in survival i need aprox. 200 cycle...Its easy to make it work whit the door compressor. For now i will try to make an auto-cooker for omelets, and see if i can automate the door compressor automation to start it when i want. In my last night build i hadn't time for messing whit it. I just wanted to prove the concept. 

Post edit:

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In the end, all it's really for is my pipe-dream of being able to run a steam turbine forever non-stop off of the renewable heat of a volcano without resorting to tricking the thing with a tiny tile of hot chlorine.

It can be easy done. To my magma push up pit ad some doors on the sideways whit wolfram doors wired whit the same not, filter, buffer (see fishomatic algae feeder- my compact type), for opening the door for a second or less and let pas in a vacuum chamber little quantities of magma. It can be conditioned to be left closed until that magma solidify and lose the heat until 230 degrees (an and gate and a thermo sensor). Wired at the thermo sensor and the one pressure plate must be a sweep arm to take the regolith and send it to the hatch area for transforming in coal. In this way you remove the igneous rock without any dupe. I will do this after i have no more regolith. 

The challenge is to let pas only tiny amount of magma to the exchange heat area for preventing it solidify in large chunks. It can be done by setting the time of the buffer

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@The Flying Fox I suppose it comes down to how and why you are using the sensor. In your case, it's just controlling an intermediate heat source so ballpark is perfectly fine. Your conversion point is controlled with pressure sensors. I would use the chlorine sensor to control my conversion point, so precision is very important to me. I already do so with a different take on the chlorine sensor (which I won't rehash since I'm sure you are aware and it's in the linked thread anyhow). In some ways the pipe version is easier than my version (harder in others). I might use the pipe version if the precision was good enough. And yes obsidian is probably the go to material for high temp stuff instead of iron baths or what have you.

For everyone else, you don't necessarily have to build your regolith melters next to the heat source and pump the magma to space with door pumps. Wolframite pumps will survive overheat damage for 750 seconds before breaking. That's 750 pipe segments worth of magma. Use the magma in a closed loop as your heat transfer fluid instead of petro or whatever. Build the melter in space, or wherever, and bring the heat to it. This allows for some flexibility in your heat source for when volcanoes go dormant. You can add in metal refineries or glass forges or other as yet thought of things. You would have to watch out for cooling the magma too far and breaking the pipes, but that's part of the fun! And if you go that route, piggyback the magma pipes with steam pipes. Steam can hold quite a bit of heat, even at just 1kg/s.

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9 hours ago, Zarquan said:

The idea is that the water wants to go up.  It tells the gas above it to try to move.  The gas can't because it can't merge with the pocket above it and it can't move to the sides, so everything stays and the water can't expand.  I build these around my steam geysers and I build them in to my earliest septic systems. 

Also, you need a ledge to create a "waterfall".

Ahh, I see.  If it were only 1 tile high, the liquid would have to be on top of the mesh tile to fall through it, and it can't get there because the gas is in the way.  By making it two tiles high, the liquid can fall through the gas as droplets.

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23 hours ago, tzionut said:

Zarquan you are right but is more difficult to do it in survival mode. For make my sandbox build model in survival i need aprox. 200 cycle...Its easy to make it work whit the door compressor. For now i will try to make an auto-cooker for omelets, and see if i can automate the door compressor automation to start it when i want. In my last night build i hadn't time for messing whit it. I just wanted to prove the concept. 

Everything is harder in survival.  Threse are easy to make though.  I make one for my polluted water in the first 10 cycles.  Though polluted water is easy because of offgasing providing a second gas.  But they aren't much harder than CO2 locks.

I put a deoxidizer in a small area enclosed by a CO2 lock. The oxygen pushes the CO2 in to the reservoir.  I build the wall to block the gas and let the water in.  I can substitute bleach stone or slime or polluted dirt or a flatulent dupe (but I never have flatulence dupes).  

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On 9/19/2018 at 8:47 PM, The Flying Fox said:

The more expanded thought-out proto-type:

 

5ba2e8c01e4de_RegolithMelter2.thumb.jpg.17817aac478b59f950fdf65fe79999b4.jpg

 

Cooling the loader and the sweeper can be done by oil dropped onto that two tile wide block as long as the oil is touching something further that can whisk away the heat.  The metal blocks will separated by either insulated tiles or just a vacuum.

What is now the most efficient way to transfer heat between a tile to the conveyor rail's content? Does the tile's material matter or is the heat transfer limited by the regolith / igneous rock?

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So producing enough steel to make bunker tiles seems problematic.  What is the next best way to hold back the onslaught of meteors?  The small ones seem to be stopped by normal tiles and sometimes create regolith tiles instead of balls ( what decides that? ), which can then stop other meteors, but sometimes it gets destroyed and the big ones blow right through normal tiles, and even seem to take out abyssalite.

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7 hours ago, Mariilyn said:

What is now the most efficient way to transfer heat between a tile to the conveyor rail's content? Does the tile's material matter or is the heat transfer limited by the regolith / igneous rock?

That's a good question!  One that I haven't actually tested much.  However, I do know that the thermal conductivity is boosted by the contents being 'inside' the tile for sure.  For example, 'hot' metals (At least from the 250C range and up) will readily exchange heat with insulated tiles if they're not made of abyssalite.  So, I've now been overlaying my hot metal shipping rails with insulated abyssalite tiles.  I'm not sure if this is the case with normal abyssalite tiles as I haven't tested those.

 

That being the said, my first proto-type didn't have any issues heating the regolith quite quickly and that one was a non-optimal design with a very short thermal-exchanger.  So, I don't think the material that either being shipped through the tile, or the material of the tile itself matters as much.  If you don't want thermal transfer to the tile; use insulated abyssalite tiles.  For thermal transfer; use a metal that can survive the temperature in question.

 

1 hour ago, psusi said:

So producing enough steel to make bunker tiles seems problematic.  What is the next best way to hold back the onslaught of meteors?  The small ones seem to be stopped by normal tiles and sometimes create regolith tiles instead of balls ( what decides that? ), which can then stop other meteors, but sometimes it gets destroyed and the big ones blow right through normal tiles, and even seem to take out abyssalite.

 

I recall that Brothgar did a decent video on what materials survive meteors the best and it's apparently based upon a hardness factor that we don't see normally in the game and no, it's not the digging hardness one.  Basically, diamond, abyssalite, and granite are you next best options for creating a meteor shield without turning to exploiting steam turbines :D

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So producing enough steel to make bunker tiles seems problematic.  What is the next best way to hold back the onslaught of meteors?  The small ones seem to be stopped by normal tiles and sometimes create regolith tiles instead of balls ( what decides that? ), which can then stop other meteors, but sometimes it gets destroyed and the big ones blow right through normal tiles, and even seem to take out abyssalite.

Is not problematic whit RU. If you dig all the fossils in the oil bioms you will have enough to covet all your top part of the map...I started a new game and kind rush for steel production. I started the beginning of walling at cycle 185 and finis at 295...so is possible.

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I'm also trying to make a sustainable regolith magmaficator, specifically one that could keep up with the uninterrupted flow of a conveyor loader (20 kg/s or 12t/cycle). It's by far the most complicated thing i've ever tried to do in ONI. I began to build a debug prototype (starting with a bigger build and then working toward making it more compact, efficient and survival friendly) but I have a hard time figuring how to stabilize it.

 

5ba72af9ef41a_Capturedecran2018-09-23a01_28_02.thumb.png.48cc43e14e3ab7916f71e68e943753d3.png

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The regolith can easily be pre-heated up to 1360C, and melt at ~1410C while being on the submerged conveyor rails. I've seen in another thread that the aquatuner does not break from overheating and thought it might be useful in this case.  On the other hand I since made an heat exchanger and dramatically reduced the amount of energy required to keep the magma liquid, so I might end up using the glass forge instead.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

The issue I have is controlling the magma temperature. For example, I think there is no way to regulate the heat supplied from the aquatuner / glass forge in order to keep the magma just above 1410C. Also, the incoming 1300C+ regolith is clearly not enough to cool down the magma and keep it from flooding the system, like so.

 

5ba732fd23fe2_Capturedecran2018-09-23a02_29_49.png.f81ccdf82f78571d895fb13d8a4cd851.png

 

I'm thinking of rerouting the conveyor to go directly from the heat exchanger into the magma pool instead, and introduce a separate cooling system to keep the temperature of the cooling room around 1083C, with the help of a liquid metal sensor like the one suggested by Saturnus. (only a copper one).

The igneous rock itself should be removed quickly enough before it becomes too cold. In the end, I don't really mind a little extra investment in cooling or heating, if it's allowing me to have a better control over the production flow. The ideal output would be a steady 20kg/s of ~1000-1100C  igneous rock. I wonder how much steam turbines could be powered with this.

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1 What you do whit all the magma? in your build you only accumulate magma...

2 In my build i didn't preheat the regolith.. i just want to melt it and get out of the game.

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What do you think of it? Are those bugs very isolated? Or should the devs fix them as soon as possible in your opinion to keep the game in a healthy state? 

A lots.. the question is what you do whit the igneous rock after...

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10 minutes ago, tzionut said:

1 What you do whit all the magma? in your build you only accumulate magma...

Nah this is an unwanted situation. The goal is to cool it into igneous rock.

 

13 minutes ago, tzionut said:

2 In my build i didn't preheat the regolith.. i just want to melt it and get out of the game.

You could melt a lot more regolith, and faster, if you preheated it to 1300C beforehand. Unfortunately, it would also means that you can't get rid of it afterward... but in any case it's not possible to keep up with the amount of regolith in the game right now.

Even being able to melt 12t per cycle would barely make a dent into the regolith added into the game every cycle. I'm sure that we at least receive 10 times that amount through the meteors. You would use all the magma on the map, and still be nowhere finished with the regolith.

My regolith compressor can somewhat keep up though. I think the arm sweeper can store ~200t regolith per cycle. (In practice it still need to be optimized.) Plus I have no idea if keeping a lot of entities in a single tile is better of not than having a bunch of regolith scattered everywhere.

 

36 minutes ago, tzionut said:

A lots.. the question is what you do whit the igneous rock after...

-> Extracting the heat for power (Steam Turbine)

-> Feed to hatches (12t can support 85 hatches... lol)

-> Crush to sand, turn into glass

-> Building a ton of drywalls

-> ???

-> Just to see if it's feasible.

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I used the chlorine sensor to automate the input of regolith :) and the aquatuner to keep the magma hot. All is need for this design is the door compresor to pump the magma up.. Instead of ceramic i used obsidian.. the ceramic keep melted :)

The initial lava can be transported via bottle This setup is made in sandbox mode.. butt is doable in survival mode

Spoiler

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Post edit.

I have another idea to get of the melted magma without using any door compresor or the cascade efect...I will test it in sandbox mode and post again. (instead of playing i waste time but....)

Post post edit:

Spoiler

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Instead of transporting the regolith to the magma i transported the magma to the regolith... in this way you can skip the door compressor part... Build all in the void area and you can dispose anything by melting it.

It uses the indestructible aquatuner bug.. so if you don't agree to use it you can construct my previous build...

This is build in sandbox mode, and is easier to dispose of the troublesome regolith whit some cool water as benefit.

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14 hours ago, The Flying Fox said:

I recall that Brothgar did a decent video on what materials survive meteors the best and it's apparently based upon a hardness factor that we don't see normally in the game and no, it's not the digging hardness one.  Basically, diamond, abyssalite, and granite are you next best options for creating a meteor shield without turning to exploiting steam turbines :D

Yea, I used granite and it seems to hold up well on the small meteors, but the big blue ones not only destroy it, but fly right through it and hit something below.  If small meteors cover it in regolith tiles first, then that stops the big ones, but I can't figure out how to encourage the formation of tiles instead of balls.

14 hours ago, tzionut said:

Is not problematic whit RU. If you dig all the fossils in the oil bioms you will have enough to covet all your top part of the map...I started a new game and kind rush for steel production. I started the beginning of walling at cycle 185 and finis at 295...so is possible.

Yea, I didn't want to start over after the RU upgrade.

 

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10 hours ago, tzionut said:

This is build in sandbox mode, and is easier to dispose of the troublesome regolith whit some cool water as benefit.

I might actually use one of these to cool down my space base. Still, you would need a enormous number of aquatuners to melt all the regolith. I found it would require 15 of them to keep up with 20kg/s regolith (naphta loop) - or 8 (if using water or polluted water loop).

 

Here are the calculations in case I did something completely wrong or forgot something :

 

Energy needed to melt 20 kg/s of non-preheated regolith : 0,2 (DTU/g)/°C * 20000g * (1410-250)°C = 4640 kDTU

 

Energy from the aquatuner (naphta loop) : 2,191 (DTU/g)/°C * 10000g * 14°C = 306,8 kDTU

4640 kDTU / 306,8 kDTU = ~15,13 aquatuners

 

Energy from the aquatuner (water loop) : 4,179 (DTU/g)/°C * 10000g * 14°C = 585,1 kDTU

4640 kDTU / 585,1 kDTU = ~7,93 aquatuners

 

 

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1 hour ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

This is getting out of hand, the madness must stop! Please Klei, gives us something decent to deal with regolith the next update without turning the game into "Regolith Too Much Included".

i agree.

 

>>give us a robot which automaticly digs only regolith, and thats all it does, kind of like a rumba but oversized and plugs into a battery port :)<< it would also be neet if it moved super fast since comet dust covering your scanners leads to broken solar panel hell in only 2 cycles

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