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[Game Update] - 272331

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BlueLance    807
1 minute ago, chemie said:

I migght actually use the power station buff tinker thing for my H2 gens now....

That makes me happy, I never use it, but heck your making use of what you have and that is important!!

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goboking    1,549

The heat increase to Natural Gas Generators is pretty huge.  It's jumping from 20W to 50W.  That's going to overwhelm the Wheezeworts I'm using to cool my power plant.  Ouch.

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0xFADE    460

Can you pick what metal the tinker uses yet?  Because you know the dupe will prioritize the shiny steel and tungsten over the piles of gold you've gotten from your geyser. 

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goboking    1,549

With natural gas gens getting a pretty stiff nerf maybe we'll finally get palmera trees so we can more reliably fuel hydrogen generators. 

 

Or maybe I need to just build a prison block and sentence dupes to hard labor on manual generators.  What?  Don't look at me like that.  I'll feed them pickled meal and give them a mesh tile floor to sleep on (can't let their Ugly Crier tears go to waste, after all).

Edited by goboking
meal, not mill
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BlueLance    807
Just now, 0xFADE said:

Can you pick what metal the tinker uses yet?  Because you know the dupe will prioritize the shiny steel and tungsten over the piles of gold you've gotten from your geyser. 

I havnt seen anything about it

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Alfons100    332

While I am agreeing on nerfing the Fertilizer Synthesizer meta to encourage other power methods, it makes no sense for it to be Power-negative and the only benefit being fertilizer. You got the option to do 2 things with your pee water: Refine it to vital water again, or make it into potential powersource while getting fertilizer as well. Now it is more streamlined. You don't even need that much fertilizer to begin with to get sufficient for your entire colony. I guess the Farm stations could consume much more Fertilizer, which gives a better need for large amounts of Fertilizer makers.

With the Solar Panels having even more potential wattage, and Shinebugs no longer glowing when overcrowded(which is fair), it basically kicked the Shinebug-power gimmick people were experimenting with some more. Shinebugs should emit more Lux depending on the rarity/happiness, so you can actually invest a little energy out of them if you'd like.

The key here is that, both of these changes kill potential variety, even when gimmicky, it just encourages a more linear progression route with less little fun things you can do to minmax. 

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BlueLance    807
3 minutes ago, Alfons100 said:

While I am agreeing on nerfing the Fertilizer Synthesizer meta to encourage other power methods, it makes no sense for it to be Power-negative and the only benefit being fertilizer.

An aquatuner is 1200W and that is a power negative. Sure the cooling is better than fertilizer. but still Power Negative.

 

3 minutes ago, Alfons100 said:

The key here is that, both of these changes kill potential variety

Ehhh, everyone using the synths for gas kills variety. now people have to come up with something to keep up with their power demands. Not saying everyone uses it, but it is a make and forget.

Edited by BlueLance
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0xFADE    460
11 minutes ago, Alfons100 said:

The key here is that, both of these changes kill potential variety, even when gimmicky, it just encourages a more linear progression route with less little fun things you can do to minmax. 

Gimmicks are what makes games fun.

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chemie    654
34 minutes ago, goboking said:

The heat increase to Natural Gas Generators is pretty huge.  It's jumping from 20W to 50W.  That's going to overwhelm the Wheezeworts I'm using to cool my power plant.  Ouch.

but you will only need one and probably automate so it only makes as fertilizer demands so no need to run all the time anyway

Edited by chemie

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goboking    1,549
Just now, chemie said:

but you will only run and probably automate so it only makes as fertilizer demands so no need to run all the time anyway

I currently have a bank of three with automation cycling them so that only two are active at any given time.  A power station, some meticulous spreadsheet calculations, and heavy use of automation allowed me to power just about everything with just two NGGs.  Even if I can still manage 100% uptime on two natural gas generators, going from 40W to 100W is going to hurt.

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Parusoid    348
4 hours ago, Grimgaw said:

Why would you want to do such thing when fertilizer just became a very hard thing to make?

Such changes, now you need phosporite AND dirt to make fertizer? What do we need fertilizer for now,when sleat wheet take dirt?

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Soulwind    251
22 minutes ago, BlueLance said:

I power my base from 2 hydrogen gens, super proud of them both.

Two h2 gens can barely run a single aquatuner.   Your base must be either tiny or super efficient. 

10 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

Such changes, now you need phosporite AND dirt to make fertizer? What do we need fertilizer for now,when sleat wheet take dirt?

 berries and shrooms

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Parusoid    348
1 minute ago, Soulwind said:

 berries and shrooms

If i recall correctly berries needs only irrigation and shrooms needs slime to fertilize it

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0xFADE    460

All these changes to the planting sub-game just make the critter ranching meat grinder more appealing.  Except now you won't likely be making any extra fertilizer to keep sage hatches.  Pufts are still just fine cooked up with a little peppernut.

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BlueLance    807
Just now, Soulwind said:

Two h2 gens can barely run a single aquatuner.   Your base must be either tiny or super efficient. 

The Latter, Most of my things are intermittent. and the excess hydrogen I generate gets pumped into a chamber and a backup pipe. Aquatuner can run for about 2/3rds of a cycle before it needs to go back off for a bit

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chemie    654
29 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

If i recall correctly berries needs only irrigation and shrooms needs slime to fertilize it

You need fertilzer for micronutrient for your farm stations which will still make sense so you use 50% less to make those plants grow.

23 minutes ago, BlueLance said:

The Latter, Most of my things are intermittent. and the excess hydrogen I generate gets pumped into a chamber and a backup pipe. Aquatuner can run for about 2/3rds of a cycle before it needs to go back off for a bit

my 16 dups usually use <2000w and if I turned off all the fert makers, it would be even less.

24 minutes ago, 0xFADE said:

All these changes to the planting sub-game just make the critter ranching meat grinder more appealing.  Except now you won't likely be making any extra fertilizer to keep sage hatches.  Pufts are still just fine cooked up with a little peppernut.

the worry is it breaks some things and you flag one.  No fertilizer for sage which means no coal so nerfing NGG also nerfs the alternative coal solutions.  I think the dirt change also hurts farming in general.

Edited by chemie
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BlueLance    807
Just now, chemie said:

my 16 dups usually use <2000w and if I turned off all the fert makers, it would be even less.

I also go for 16 Dupes!!! High 5!!. 

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0xFADE    460
4 minutes ago, chemie said:

the worry is it breaks some things and you flag one.  No fertilizer for sage which means no coal so nerfing NGG also nerfs the alternative coal solutions.  I think the dirt change also hurts farming in general.

Yes, that is stuff that will happen when you make sweeping changes without letting things settle.

Sleet wheat already consuming very cold water was already bad enough.

Hopefully they have very large spreadsheets in place that show what happens to an average base when things like that are tweaked.

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Lilalaunekuh    848

I like the changes depending the compost and fertilizer synthizer:

- Should dirt or fertilzer be the low quality material ? (so feeding sage hatches dirt sounds more reasonable)

- Sand / regolith is abundant so running a water sieve is now an even better solution to treat polluted water

- Fertilizer is your way to reduce to water consumption of your farms so reducing the needed polluted water to create fertilizer is good

Edited by Lilalaunekuh
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TheExceed    111
4 hours ago, BlueLance said:

Or you make use of several sources of power, store the nat gas and when you have enough burn it, rinse repeat. Its not like Natural gas is the only power supply and you shouldn't really have a one stop shop thing. There are several sources of power in the game, and your still jumping to only natural gas. 

  • Hydrogen
  • Coal
  • Petroleum
  • Solar
  • Steam
  • Dupe
  • Nat Gas

Sure some of the low end geysers could use adjusting, but Natural gas is not the only power supply out there

No but I haven't seen anyone make an appropriate steam system that worked. So that one is out the window. (without abusing a bug)
Dupe power depends on having a decent amount I stick to around 6 for 400+ cycles. 
Petroleum is technically dupe power unless you heat oil to petro.
And solar needs more balancing and is late game.
Hydrogen geyser come out pretty hot. 900+F and are fairly rare. In terms of electrolyzer systems that is efficient enough to run hydro genie without eventually running out of power.

This leaves coal and Nat Gas. Coal is good if you get into hatch ranching. Which is fine for some people.
Nat gas is good for people with early slush or pw geysers. Now they are no longer really all that useful.
Balancing should allows players to play the game different ways. Meaning I could go any power route and have sustainable system whether its from a geyser or from other processes. Not making something in the game less useful.

Like I said, players should be able to play how they want not forced to go down certain routes.

Edited by TheExceed
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trukogre    235
11 minutes ago, TheExceed said:

No but I haven't seen anyone make an appropriate steam system that worked. So that one is out the window. (without abusing a bug)
Dupe power depends on having a decent amount I stick to around 6 for 400+ cycles. 
Petroleum is technically dupe power unless you heat oil to petro.
And solar needs more balancing and is late game.
Hydrogen geyser come out pretty hot. 900+F and are fairly rare. In terms of electrolyzer systems that is efficient enough to run hydro genie without eventually running out of power.

This leaves coal and Nat Gas. Coal is good if you get into hatch ranching. Which is fine for some people.
Nat gas is good for people with early slush or pw geysers. Now they are no longer really all that useful.
Balancing should allows players to play the game different ways. Meaning I could go any power route and have sustainable system whether its from a geyser or from other processes. Not making something in the game less useful.

Like I said, players should be able to play how they want not forced to go down certain routes.

You advocate for variety, but your analysis shows that you are determined to find anything but the old broken fert maker cycle unacceptable.  It was overpowered, now it's gone, instead of dismissing every other option try them again and try to make them work.  You dismiss solar power as 'late game' but won't consider coal powerplants unless you can use them sustainably?  If you think coal power is early game, why does it need to be sustainable?  If early game power is sustainable, then there's no need for anything else, i.e., the old fert maker ngg obsoleting everything else.  I hope you give other power systems another chance, building FM/NGG in every base is old and tired, and now it's gone.  (Technically petroleum is dupe/oil hybrid power, not dupe power alone.)

Edited by trukogre
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Lutzkhie    345

uh devs care to explain the new ruin and weird sound
few more days, i really hope there is a new trailer animation or something

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TheExceed    111
1 hour ago, trukogre said:

You advocate for variety, but your analysis shows that you are determined to find anything but the old broken fert maker cycle unacceptable.  It was overpowered, now it's gone, instead of dismissing every other option try them again and try to make them work.  You dismiss solar power as 'late game' but won't consider coal powerplants unless you can use them sustainably?  If you think coal power is early game, why does it need to be sustainable?  If early game power is sustainable, then there's no need for anything else, i.e., the old fert maker ngg obsoleting everything else.  I hope you give other power systems another chance, building FM/NGG in every base is old and tired, and now it's gone.  (Technically petroleum is dupe/oil hybrid power, not dupe power alone.)

Its pretty much dupe power since it wont run at all unless a dupe initiates the process. (Unless you create petro)
Did I say bring back the old fert system? Not but they basically made it obsolete to even use them for any type of sustainable Ngas power.
If any power is sustainable, then it doesn't matter which power system you go with. The end game power gives more power, steam, petro, etc except the solarpower which they did buff slightly. If all the power was balanced and had the possibility to be sustainable, then it would be okay.

Coal power plants are reliant heavily on hatch ranching. Sure you can find quite a bit in the world. But enough for 500+ cycles? Probably won't get it all in time of hitting that marker. I have tried playthroughs without the Ngas powerplant and I personally didn't like the micromanagement needed for it. That being said, that's how I like to play the game not how someone else likes to play the game. It might be easier for some and not for others. 
 

Don't quote me assuming you know exactly what I mean or am thinking. The old fer maker is "old and tired" to YOU. lol Doesn't mean it is to anyone and everyone else. Also, don't at me with the bs "if you don't like micromanagement find a new game" bc that's just childish.

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