Cheerio

[Game Update] - 265724

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Lifegrow    1,525
2 minutes ago, Cheerio said:
  • Fix for crash that could occur when loading/generating a world with abyssalite surrounded by vacuum.

View full update

 

Any official update as to what the rubbery floop is happening with temperatures "averaging out" yet ?

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Lutzkhie    345

only on insulated tiles/pipes, but what about the area, raw abyssalite they will still use the average, the ice will melt before you even get there

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Cheerio    2,674
8 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

Any official update as to what the rubbery floop is happening with temperatures "averaging out" yet ?

If you're still having the problem after this update, would you mind uploading a save file that has the issue?

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pnambic    17
8 minutes ago, Lutzkhie said:

only on insulated tiles/pipes, but what about the area, raw abyssalite they will still use the average, the ice will melt before you even get there

That was papered over in the second of the three updates we got so far today, by forcing naturally occurring abyssalite to the temperature of its non-abyssalite surroundings (link below). Exploring through the veins can get pretty toasty/chilly now. Also, make sure you don't dig out a biome's protective layer accidentally. And you shouldn't build anything non-insulated out of abyssalite, unless you know exactly where it's coming from and are OK with its temperature. On the flip side, you shouldn't build insulated things out of anything else; it's as good as it ever was in that role.

 

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crypticorb    529

This fix seems to be damage control for the thermal averaging patch, but it does work, mostly. One small problem is when abyssalite spawns next to neutronium, it sets itself to absolute zero (-272oC) Anything constructed using that material could cause issues.

This isn't exactly an edge case, as I often carve out abyssalite from the magma layer to get to the magma, and having 1700o and -272o abyssalite being used for construction could wreak havoc.

asdfr12344556.png.a2f147ef279eba05507886911b03d904.png

Another oddity that is new as of this thermal averaging patch is that hidden volcanoes and vents spawn with -35oC material surrounding them.

asdfr12344556.thumb.png.6f4d5053e2536ee95687a9343f99293e.png

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39 minutes ago, Lutzkhie said:

only on insulated tiles/pipes, but what about the area, raw abyssalite they will still use the average, the ice will melt before you even get there

 

Not really... The biomes are protected by a layer of 4 titles of abassalyte.

The problem is that this layer has the temperature of one of the two biomes. By the time this equilibrates, (10 cycles), it melts one or two ice cubes (or cool 1 or 2 tiles of the other biomes).

It is playable. But the generation of worlds would be improved if the layer of abassalyte had 2 temperatures instead of one.

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PhailRaptor    946
1 hour ago, crypticorb said:

Another oddity that is new as of this thermal averaging patch is that hidden volcanoes and vents spawn with -35oC material surrounding them.

asdfr12344556.thumb.png.6f4d5053e2536ee95687a9343f99293e.png

The "bricked over" Geyser/Vent/Volcano locations have always been colder like this.  The specific temperature might be different, but the overall behavior is not new.

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avc15    416
2 hours ago, Lutzkhie said:

only on insulated tiles/pipes, but what about the area, raw abyssalite they will still use the average, the ice will melt before you even get there

Anything 2thick abyssalite will still act like a perfect insulator. The abyssalite on top will still transfer heat with its biome, and the abyssalite on bottom will still also transfer heat with its biome, but heat won't be able to go across the two.

So you are somewhat right in that it will still take more to "repair" holes in biomes without a complete intact abyssalite barrier than before. However, it's not so daunting a task as you might think. At worst, you'll find some small gaps to plug.

Edited by avc15

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Alpe12    124

Haven't played my current game since these changes started until now.
And it definetly requires some changes.
I have a tank of polluted PH2O at about 5C from a geyser. I used to have 2 Thermo Aquatuner inside it to keep them cool, and input in them H2O at 80C for an output at about 50C.
Now I removed them and put the H2O directly through radiant pipes inside the tank (they were already in place, but didn't provide much change).
And following a full packet of water (80C), after only 4 pipes it's already at 49,8C. I think that's waaaaaay too strong. Probably a much bigger "radiator" would be needed to achieve that, not only 4 pipes.
I think the problem wouldn't be so latent with geometric average.
image.png.1d1854c9510458d4d0f627676aa8adec.png

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ALPHAP2712    10
3 hours ago, Lutzkhie said:

only on insulated tiles/pipes, but what about the area, raw abyssalite they will still use the average, the ice will melt before you even get there

Wait.. if abyssalite connect with abysslite .Average of that is abyssalite ,isn't it?

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Alpe12    124

Just noticed this post is in the General Discussion not Developer log.

Edited by Alpe12

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Mutineer    26

I am just wondering, what Isolated pipes do in general? I usually build then out of the igneous rock, except when I really need isolation. They seem did not spread heat as much as standard pipes.

Why this material you ask? Because it is basically useless and one usually get it in huge amount.

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Stoof    34
9 hours ago, Lutzkhie said:

only on insulated tiles/pipes, but what about the area, raw abyssalite they will still use the average, the ice will melt before you even get there

From my experiments a single layer abyssalite wall will prevent all heat transfer and a single layer of raw abyssalite will prevent heat transfer, nor is the abyssalite changing temperature.  I'm on 265724, am I missing something?  Looks back to before they messed with it to me.

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Oozinator    2,375

Klei turned magically ONI into crap for me.
Actual patch, new worldgen.
Watch the abbyssalite veins. Most biomes broken. Ice is melting and magma heat spreading.
image.thumb.png.24521c15b40f6772163e5fa63215526b.png
image.thumb.png.c1ef4777d50045a8abd4b9daf06a2d65.png
image.thumb.png.29d006666dfce75b7f6f5ca06492e2ba.png

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Kabrute    1,070

you have biome crossover in the first pic, bottom of your ice biome has caustic in it, might need "medication" but its already growing weezeworts to counter it.
Oil biome, for me, has always been near 80c and yours leaked out into the caustic, actually looks like a blob of oil in that "bleed" area

image.thumb.png.764aca4cc6c6b9136b6c3f4d8f7af686.png

 

so not the abysallite but the biomes bleeding over into each other.

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Oozinator    2,375

It makes no difference for me, what is bleeding into each other.
ONI gets more and more random micro experience.
There are to much random numbers influencing a game, when worlds are generated. This "try" at balancing is very bad approach to fix it.
All that new preview stuff to include radiant pipes, to boost them?
Map is to small for such experiments.
Players tend to look with debug into the world, to see if it's worth to put the hours of gameplay into.
That takes the exploring factor away, one of the only interesting random aspects of this game.
Players tend to load and reload for dupeselection. Is it not sign of bad gamedesign, when players "need" to abuse that?

When you have >500 hours on the gameclock and the redo again factor gets boring, game fails at design.



 

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Kabrute    1,070

When you have >500 hours the game already won, but I get what you say though I stopped debug scoping my worlds when they put so many geyser it don't matter, there will be some way of supporting 10 dupes forever even if we have to get creative, and they(klei) have added new ways of being creative.  Imagine you use just piping and no thermos to transfer heat/cold for making nat gas boiler that carries that heat to a steam turbine while using pipe sensors to direct the flow of those temps as necessary where necessary

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29 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

When you have >500 hours on the gameclock and the redo again factor gets boring, game fails at design.

 with over 1k hours i can assure you this is not the case for all players, and no i don't use debug or sandbox or whatever. Do not assume that all people play this the same way

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llunak    78
46 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

There are to much random numbers influencing a game, when worlds are generated.

That's the point, isn't it? If you get the pretty much the same world over and over again, what's the point of playing it again?

46 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

This "try" at balancing is very bad approach to fix it.
All that new preview stuff to include radiant pipes, to boost them?

Agreed, but you are mixing two things together. Ruined thermodynamics have nothing to do with things being or not being random.

46 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

Players tend to look with debug into the world, to see if it's worth to put the hours of gameplay into.
That takes the exploring factor away, one of the only interesting random aspects of this game.
Players tend to load and reload for dupeselection. Is it not sign of bad gamedesign, when players "need" to abuse that?
 

Players do not need to abuse that, it's their choice. It may just as well be a sign that those (not all) players are spoiled and would fail badly at the marshmallow test. What's the point of playing a (survival) game if there's not much challenge?

Besides, what's actually your point? Random numbers when generating worlds is bad, except that exploring this random world is fun, but random dupes are not fun ... huh?

 

46 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

When you have >500 hours on the gameclock and the redo again factor gets boring, game fails at design.

No. If you've spent already 500 hours on it, it's already done a pretty good job.

Oh, "redo again"? Well, if your idea of fun is doing exactly the same thing over and over again, then I can see your point.

 

Edited by llunak
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