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@Lumina Ok xD I'd just quote myself here or say the same again on a different / longer way. I'm not discussing against you or others, I just find amazing that some people make such long posts about such a subject, that I wanted to help a bit with a different point of view that makes me live without overthinking.

I can see balance being KEY on competitive games where I come from, where all I want is that every player has the same tools and the rest is based on skill. In DST, a skilled player can play and enjoy ANY character. In fact, some of the most skilled players use the more helpless characters to enjoy a more pure experience, or just the character they like the most in terms of aesthetics, background, fun, playstyle, or whatever it is. This is not a fact that I just made up, this is how it is, in this very game.

 

If developers decide to change things and update the game to keep it interesting, AMAZING NEWS.

Years of discussion for balance? I'd say please nope, but it's up to you <3

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It being competitive is irrelevant. I don't think anyone needs any character to directly be as  'strong' as other characters.  
They just want a reason to play the character.  If people want a challenge they pick Wes.  The beefalo-manure characters like Winona do not give me a bigger "challenge", they just bore me.  Boring with no real reason to play them.  But each player in this community has different reasons for playing another character.  A lot of people in this thread, want beef-manure Willow to be stronger because that gives them a UNIQUE reason to play her.

I'm a Willow "main" btw, I only play her, not because she's mechanically interesting but because I just like her sprites.  Her actual mechanic design is boring as all can be though.  I'm past the stage of where this game doesn't challenge me, but I sure wish she was mechanically a fun character.  Wes is mechanically fun because he's distinctly giving you the biggest challenge in the game.  Willow is mechanically boring because there's no reason to really play her unless you're like me.  If they removed all of willows traits, it wouldn't make any difference to my experience with her.  

Anyway, I just want to let people know that Klei does not and will not ever care what you think when it comes to balance.  
Quit with the conspiracy theories and head-scratching, it should be evident in 2018 that Klei does not care, and next time you question why won't they do X or Y, just remember that single fact so you can move on with your life.

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16 hours ago, mochilo said:

You can't tell an artist to change a piece of his song or his painting because you think it would be more appropriate in a different way.

The most absurd thing I've read all day. Of course you can. Doesn't mean they are obligated to listen, but you can tell any artist anything you'd like, so long as it doesn't fall under the blanket of threats and/or harassment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let's_Get_It_Started

I'm not a fan myself of The Black Eyed Peas, but here is a perfect example of a musical artist changing their hook to avoid backlash and controversy. Numerous people weren't pleased with the use of the r-slur, and it was changed.

As an artist myself, I acknowledge that if I put my drawings on the internet on a public forum people are allowed to say whatever they please about them. I believe it's important to be able to be criticized if you're looking to improve, these people are offering another perspective on your artwork, something you might not have seen, or maybe you did see it, and left it in thinking it wasn't that big of a deal.

All of what I just said applies to video games as well. If there's something a person dislikes about a game, they can whine and type as many paragraphs as they'd like, (as I am doing now and will continue to do), and that's fine. As much as I groan whenever I see Abadabadoo posting about how much he hates DS from the ground up, I suppose that's just the nature of things...

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On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 9:06 AM, mochilo said:

I will drop an informative bomb that may surprise some of you. Ready?

This is not a competitive game. There is no reason to compare characters against each other or make them equal. 

 

BOOOOM

 

There is a reason if you actually play the "boring" characters and see the potential for so much more.

There is a reason if you actually care about good game design in the slightest and want to see the game balanced in a fair, fun way.

There is a reason if you want to help the community thrive because they can pick whomever they want and get an enriching, fulfilling experience regardless of their choice.

20 hours ago, mochilo said:

I tried to put it quite simple, to reach everyone's understanding :geek:

I didn't even express my personal opinion or made an argument about it. Just trying to end a never-ending story with a simple fact that could help to stop making up unexistent "needs". It's up to you to look at the subject from a point of view or the other; to see that as a "problem" or a virtue of the game, or simply a decission from the developers team or the person who created the game and wanted it that way. You can't tell an artist to change a piece of his song or his painting because you think it would be more apropriate on a different way.

Ooooor you can keep thinking you are more right than others and keep discussing it forever, creating amazing posts full of well constructed arguments and ideas that will go nowhere. It's all about your point of view of choice.

So what would you rather us do? Clearly this is something that matters to the community, and as such we're gonna discuss it. Instead of advocating we don't discuss this perhaps we should encourage feedback and discussion of balance in order to help Klei develop the game further. I respect not wanting eternal posts that go on and on however you don't have to post here, there's plenty of alternatives on the forums.

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10 hours ago, Lumina said:

Well, yes of course you do. And of course it was done during history. How it is possible to say something so untrue ?

Some people pay artist for precise work (so they tell them to change it and do whatever they want). Some artists ask for feedback. Some artists don't ask for feedback but are still open to them. If the artist express that they doesn't want feedback, you have to respect this, of course.

 

But here, we are in a game when we were involved multiple times (first beta, ANR beta, Forge beta, not even including classic Don't Starve and RoG beta). We are in a game from a studio that ask for feedback often (a lot of game have Early Access of some kind). We are in a forum with a suggestion section. And in this very topic, we have someone saying this :

(And it's just one example)


So yes, we can tell them what change we would like to see, what will make the game better for our point of view. The artistic statut of the game doesn't prevent this. However, we can tell them, but we must respect them in the process : being polite, keeping in mind that whatever we are expressing is a point of view, not a revealed truth, and accept that they have the final word (because we aren't patrons paying for a work).

 

So please, don't try to end discussion with an argument as fragile and irrelevant as "game is art, you can't ask for change". Especially when we have a message here showing that this kind of discussion is perfectly ok. There is no point trying to end things to the pleasure of ending things. If people need to discuss this matter, and if this matter is allowed to discuss (and it is), then this discussion could go forever, it's not a problem, especially since we can freely not read this topic, or not post on it, if for whatever reason we don't like this subject.

 

As long of course as people are polite and respect Klei's decisions, but as far as i can tell, this is the case, people asking for a change are polite here.

 

Everything about this post sums up a lot pretty nicely. All we can do is remain civil and respectful while providing feedback for Klei to utilize.

   

9 hours ago, mochilo said:

@Lumina Ok xD I'd just quote myself here or say the same again on a different / longer way. I'm not discussing against you or others, I just find amazing that some people make such long posts about such a subject, that I wanted to help a bit with a different point of view that makes me live without overthinking.

I can see balance being KEY on competitive games where I come from, where all I want is that every player has the same tools and the rest is based on skill. In DST, a skilled player can play and enjoy ANY character. In fact, some of the most skilled players use the more helpless characters to enjoy a more pure experience, or just the character they like the most in terms of aesthetics, background, fun, playstyle, or whatever it is. This is not a fact that I just made up, this is how it is, in this very game.

 

If developers decide to change things and update the game to keep it interesting, AMAZING NEWS.

Years of discussion for balance? I'd say please nope, but it's up to you <3

Balance is a key factor in every type of game. Can you imagine if in Pac-Man one of the ghosts just immediately teleported to the player and killed them? Or in Mario Bros, if you could just fly around and kill all the enemies at your will? It'd ruin the experience! And I'm not gonna argue it's impossible to enjoy the "boring" characters, as that would be extremely hypocritical (willow main btw). All we're suggesting is that buffing the several characters this post outlines would provide players with a more enriching experience within the game.

I mean you yourself refer to the characters in debate as "helpless" which pretty much sums up a lot of what we've been trying to say.

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Let's also not forget that people want characters rebalanced because it keeps them from getting bored with the game.  Different characters bringing a different gameplay experience allows a player to enjoy the game in a variety of ways.  That's fun to me.  If I pick Winona, what's the difference from that and the other characters who are dull?  Nothing.  It's just the same dull experience.  

A lot of people are asking for these changes because it would make the game more fun for them.  It doesn't have to be more complicating than that.  
I would like Willow changed, not to make the game easier or fair for me.  But because I just want her to be more fun to play.  I just want to have fun on this game, but at times it's like Klei doesn't want you to actually enjoy the game. (Beefalo Taming for example, or the shipwrecked DLC characters) 

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On 3/19/2018 at 12:09 AM, Korlie said:

Could be a couple reasons why they refuse to buff the obviously underpowered anymore.

 

- Their director got tired of it and refuses to allow it anymore

- They think the characters are actually balanced

- They're stubborn and refuse to admit they're wrong

- There isn't any time in their schedule to do it

- They stand by the decisions they made in the first place

You forgot

-They see it as a lot of work with comparatively little gain.

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On the topic of character balance there is one issue that I have personally with the balance and I'll try to keep my thought easy to read and tidy.
 

Weaknesses and Strengths sometimes aren't a weakness or a strength 
Now when I say this I don't mean abilities that have ups and downs. I mean when a character has a strength and the weakness that Klei chooses just isn't really too much of a weakness and vice versa.Sometimes this leaves characters with easy weaknesses and almost no significant strengths. Lets use Wolfgang, Winona and Wigfrid as examples. 

Wolfgang, with his ability to have 300 HP and deal 2x damage AND have increase speed with the only downside to this being his increased hunger drain kinda is completely broken. His strengths counter his own weaknesses. Think about it with a high health pool, increased speed and doubled damage you can fight any shadow monster as long as you have a weapon and some armour (or you can just kite them) and you can also kill alot of things that drop food very easily. Combined with the fact that his hunger drain scales with how mighty he is just some basic managing can make Wolfgang very powerful early, mid and late game.

Winona, she has no downsides mentioned so she should be really good right? Well not really. All of her upsides are very situational (Which is one issue with Wicker's insomnia). She builds fast, sure that nice, but it doesn't give her something that other characters can't do. Everyone can build, but she builds a half second faster, meh. Getting one hit from the dark is also pretty cool, but again its not really that big because light.Now the most useful part of her kit her tape is actually just an early game sewing kit that gets out classed by it by the 3rd or 4th hound attack or whenever you attack houndmounds. Every character has something that the others don't that gives you a reason to play them and Winona has a downgraded sewing kit that you can make a bit easier.

Wigfrid, is probably one of the best examples of a great weakness. Being able to only eat meat effects you through-out the entire game. Yes her upsides make it easier to get meat like I said for Wolfgang, but Wolfgang can still use regular farms mid and late game and never really has to go out of his way to feed his hunger. The bigger part of this downside is less feeding herself and more of the fact that Wigfrid is unable to use a large amount of useful foods in this game like butter muffins, trail mix, dragonpies or taffy to name a few, but this doesn't completely disable her. This means that she can't heal with food as easily so this effects her fighting strengths keeping her healing buff in check by limiting her quick healing (She still can heal with food, but it has to be meat so it does the longer animation)

If you use this thought process while looking at all the characters it comes up pretty commonly.

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1 hour ago, spideswine said:

You forgot

-They see it as a lot of work with comparatively little gain.

The players will have more fun leading to longer life-span of the game and more replayability and variety in playstyles.  
It will lead to more sales due to people buying skins for characters they like (because now they have more characters they like)  

They just don't care is all, no theory crafting needed.  
It is less work than releasing an event with a whole ton of limited-time content.  
If they suddenly made Winona fun to play, then people will start buying Winona skins more, increasing their revenue.  
They sell merchandise of don't starve characters, people only buy the stuff for characters they like, and it could potentially double the amount of money they make if the people who buy these merchandise, like twice the amount of characters than they did before.  

Funny enough, the boring characters have relatively simple fixes to make interesting that they could put in within a week.  
Every event I only get stuff for Willow, if Winona wasn't boring that would mean that Klei gets double my money.  and they could fix Winona in a single day. (I do programming also)

Over time players quit the game cause they're bored, it reduces the amount of money Klei makes on the next event, because now they have less players buying their stuff.   You can keep those players by releasing updates that make the game more fun. (such as fixing characters)  There is a lot to gain by preventing players from quitting out of boredom.

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2 hours ago, TealsMyth said:

with the only downside to this being his increased hunger drain kinda is completely broken.

I think you forgot that Wolfgang's real "weakness" is his increased sanity drain from darkness and monsters. But that's ok. It's so negligible that your point still stands.

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2 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

I think you forgot that Wolfgang's real "weakness" is his increased sanity drain from darkness and monsters. But that's ok. It's so negligible that your point still stands.

I forgot to mention it directly. oops. that's what I mean when I randomly talk about the shadow monsters.

 

5 hours ago, TealsMyth said:

Think about it with a high health pool, increased speed and doubled damage you can fight any shadow monster as long as you have a weapon and some armour (or you can just kite them)

 

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8 hours ago, 364266_1452783569 said:

The players will have more fun leading to longer life-span of the game and more replayability and variety in playstyles.  
It will lead to more sales due to people buying skins for characters they like (because now they have more characters they like) 

That's not really my impression. Replayability comes mostly from the game itself, I don't feel(except for wicker maybe) that the characters(even the good ones) are different enough from one another to add much replayability. Also I mostly see other people playing one character or all of them, and those which aren't tight with their money often buy skins for characters they barely play.

8 hours ago, 364266_1452783569 said:

It is less work than releasing an event with a whole ton of limited-time content.  

Sure but such an event boosts the amount of players they have temporarily by a large margin, coincidentally they also release new skins while this player boost is ongoing, which tends to lead to solid profits, apparently.

8 hours ago, 364266_1452783569 said:

if they suddenly made Winona fun to play

And how would they do that? You can try to give her a bunch of new mechanics, but that is a lot of work and you're not really sure how it'll be received. You can easily just end up with another wicker or another webber.

8 hours ago, 364266_1452783569 said:

Funny enough, the boring characters have relatively simple fixes to make interesting that they could put in within a week.  

I don't think so.

Make them less subpar? Sure. But I don't think them being subpar is the problem.

8 hours ago, 364266_1452783569 said:

They sell merchandise of don't starve characters, people only buy the stuff for characters they like,

Uhh...Some people have an obsession with cosmetics, people buy stuff for characters they don't like all the time. Devs make quite a lot of their money off of them.

8 hours ago, 364266_1452783569 said:

Over time players quit the game cause they're bored

And I don't think some minor changes to characters will change that. You'll need a serious overhaul to have at least some impact, and even that can backfire.

8 hours ago, 364266_1452783569 said:

You can keep those players by releasing updates that make the game more fun.

Constant updates tend to take a lot of work.

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I don't get why you are raising doubts and questions when you have a whole thread of people that are stating that by making these changes it will add to their experience.  I am literally telling you right now that making the characters more interesting adds to my replayability.  Why do you think these threads exist? Do you think people ask for buffs for no reason?

It's not something that requires any theories or guess work.  I played Don't starve when it was in beta, and then I quit the game after getting bored.  Guess what made me come back?  It was an update where they released characters.  Then I had quit again, and DST came together, and I never went back to singleplayer...UNTIL they released shipwrecked and I wanted to try the DLC characters.  I play shipwrecked as Walani (who also sucks) and if she didn't exist I wouldn't have been playing shipwrecked.  

You're making theories based on what you see and you're disregarding the opinions of people who are telling you directly what they want and why.  I am telling you that making the characters better will add replayability, if you doubt my words it makes it feel like I shouldn't bother replying.
Your argument is biased because in the first place many of these characters are boring to begin with, you don't have an accurate assessment of how things would be if all characters were interesting yet, so it's not fair to judge it when you haven't seen the impact of rebalancing could do.

I had quit this game for a year and just recently came back and I am already semi-bored because: 

1. I missed the limited-time events so there is absolutely no new content available for me. (Thanks Klei)
2. The lack of replayability with a diverse cast of characters.  They play too much the same.  There's the few characters who are interesting then there's the list of dull characters with traits that add nothing to the gameplay experience.

The surge in playerbase from a limited-time event coming out is just evident that these players have quit because they had nothing new to do.  Having diverse characters to play would be something new to do for them.

If you think personal observations matter more than anything I say, then go look at the workshop mods.  
There's 2 mods that add shipwrecked characters with both having around 100k subscribers.  
Now my personal observation has the backing of nearly 200k people, in the fact that peoples enjoyment of the game comes from the experience they have with their characters.

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9 hours ago, 364266_1452783569 said:

I don't get why you are raising doubts and questions when you have a whole thread of people that are stating that by making these changes it will add to their experience. 

Because what adds to the experience of one guy can take from the experience of another.

You don't even need to look far for an example, people will actively avoid modded characters even though they can just not play them if they don't like them.

9 hours ago, 364266_1452783569 said:

Why do you think these threads exist? Do you think people ask for buffs for no reason?

Why do you think modded characters exist? And why do you think people actively avoid them?

Fact of the matter is people don't just want more unique characters, they also want them to be unique in a rather particular way. It's not easy to achieve, especially if you want to make everyone happy.

9 hours ago, 364266_1452783569 said:

You're making theories based on what you see and you're disregarding the opinions of people who are telling you directly what they want and why.

You're doing the same thing, which is exactly my point. This isn't some easy change which will make everyone happy.

Hell let me give you a (honest and non theorhetical example): If I had to change one character in the game, that character would be WX.

Because with all due respect to wolfgang, wolfgang at least has some depth to him and isn't a ******* reverse wes on steroids. Lol 50% MS, 2.67 the hp of others, eats stale food with no penalties, and free light to boot. Oh and weaknesses? "Rain deals some minor damage" and "Don't die". It's a ******* modded character.

So naturally I want to beat the living **** out of him with the nerf bat, needless to say some people won't be too happy about it.

9 hours ago, 364266_1452783569 said:

The lack of replayability with a diverse cast of characters.  They play too much the same.

And you really think that some minor change will change that?

9 hours ago, 364266_1452783569 said:

The surge in playerbase from a limited-time event coming out is just evident that these players have quit because they had nothing new to do.  Having diverse characters to play would be something new to do for them.

Not necessarily. Besides any addition would do that, and most of them have arguably lower risks involved.

9 hours ago, 364266_1452783569 said:

If you think personal observations matter more than anything I say, then go look at the workshop mods.  
There's 2 mods that add shipwrecked characters with both having around 100k subscribers.  
Now my personal observation has the backing of nearly 200k people, in the fact that peoples enjoyment of the game comes from the experience they have with their characters.

Didn't you just say that the shipwrecked characters suck?

I mean if you take it as new content then sure, people generally like new content. But that's quantity, not quality, and you're not talking about adding new chars, you're talking quality, and if we look at the workshop as a basis, I can give you plenty of ****/meh mods with plenty of subscribers.

Oh and speaking of mods, there's plenty of character rebalances out there as well, how popular are those? Why do you think that's the case?

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13 minutes ago, 364266_1452783569 said:

I don't get why you are raising doubts and questions when you have a whole thread of people that are stating that by making these changes it will add to their experience.  I am literally telling you right now that making the characters more interesting adds to my replayability.  Why do you think these threads exist? Do you think people ask for buffs for no reason?

There are thousands of DST players, but in a thread maybe only a few dozens. This thread has around 140 posts which means that maximal 140 people posted here, and then we didn't take into consideration that some people made multiple posts. So only a small part of the playerbase expressed themselves here. If we ask for a change that doesn't necessarily mean that most of the players would benefit from that. 

19 minutes ago, 364266_1452783569 said:

It's not something that requires any theories or guess work.

Yes it does. Just imagine what DST were if Klei implemented everything that was asked for. Not only many mods and new characters, but new mechanics, a ton of re- (or un-) balances, not to mention contradictory wishes.

22 minutes ago, 364266_1452783569 said:

I played Don't starve when it was in beta, and then I quit the game after getting bored.  Guess what made me come back?  It was an update where they released characters.  Then I had quit again, and DST came together, and I never went back to singleplayer...UNTIL they released shipwrecked and I wanted to try the DLC characters.

You're making theories based on what you see and you're disregarding the opinions of people who are telling you directly what they want and why. Not everyone plays DS/T because of the characters, some are more interested in other mechanics. I for example don't care much about a character update, rather about new events, items and mechanics in the game.

As far as I can tell, spideswine didn't mean that they don't want a character rebalance, but that it would require a lot work to make it actually interesting and balanced for most of the playerbase. And that wouldn't necessarily worth the effort right now, and I agree with them. Besides, Klei stated that they have more important stuff to do at the moment (the events for example), but once these are over they'll look into what they should do next and will consider if/how to rebalance stuff.

30 minutes ago, 364266_1452783569 said:

1. I missed the limited-time events so there is absolutely no new content available for me. (Thanks Klei)

Sorry to hear that. If you actually care about DST and its update, you can subscribe to it on steam to see Klei's announcements in your activity tab, or you could read the forums regularly. The Forge was announced two month prior its launch and the Hallowed Nights, Winter's Feast and the Chinese New Year events seem to return every year. 

33 minutes ago, 364266_1452783569 said:

2. The lack of replayability with a diverse cast of characters.  They play too much the same.  There's the few characters who are interesting then there's the list of dull characters with traits that add nothing to the gameplay experience.

1 hour ago, spideswine said:

That's not really my impression. Replayability comes mostly from the game itself, I don't feel(except for wicker maybe) that the characters(even the good ones) are different enough from one another to add much replayability.

Here I totally agree with spideswine. The characters give a different flavour to the game but not an entirey different gameplay that would make me want to replay the whole game just because of them. Replayability comes from the randomly generated worlds, the world settings and different servers and groups (public servers, large endless servers, HTS, small world with friends etc). I can fully understand if you need a more diverse cast of characters but that doesn't mean that most of the playerbase needs it as well or that it were a priority to Klei.

I don't say that I don't want some character rebalance. It's just far less important for me than for you.

40 minutes ago, 364266_1452783569 said:

The surge in playerbase from a limited-time event coming out is just evident that these players have quit because they had nothing new to do.  Having diverse characters to play would be something new to do for them.

As you see events bring back old players.

You say that they quit because there was nothing new for them. If that's true, after a character rebalance they would play more, but then they would get bored again after playing the updated characters and once there is nothing new for them, they would quit again. Rebalance would be a one-time help while events keep adding new content to the game. Events also bring new players as well, which I don't think would be the case for a rebalance.

I'm curious, which are those few characters that you like and what makes them intereting for you?

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10 hours ago, 364266_1452783569 said:


They just don't care is all, no theory crafting needed.  
It is less work than releasing an event with a whole ton of limited-time content.  

They care, i think. And if it's less work to change character, the thing is : most people dislike change.

 

This isn't a problem with events. No one will complain if during one event Wes is actually useful. No one will say "it's not the purpose of wes, wes should stay useless". No one will complain if during one event Wilson is more popular than Wickerbottom. At worse they'll regret that they can't play their favorite character, but they also know that things will be back to normal.

But change this in the base game and people could become frustrated that their favorite character is no longer the most powerful, or blame Klei because now they like the skill of Winona better but they got head skin of Wickerbottom and they are "useless" now, or because they don't like Willow but she is so powerful now they feel they have to play her, or they really dislike how wolfgang is now, even if it's funnier to play because he is less powerful now, or whatever a change will create.

 

The other problem is : changing character only is often not enough. You need content with this, because it will distract players for the change or give them reasons to change playstyle. Especially if some of the change can be seen as "negative" at first or if people need time to adapt, master the change and find them fun.

And also because tiny changes feel even more tiny when they are alone, when it's easier to find them satisfying when you have enough change around you.

Finally, because adding content could help to give usefulness or purpose to some character. One quick example : let's say they add poisonous enemies in DST (not corrosive one like in Forge), it will make WX more useful.

 

But if you have to do a rebalance and create content to go with it, this is a lot more content than just adding a few perks.

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If you want the game to change, you can come to the forums and explain why. Klei devs definitely read the forums. But that doesn’t mean that as soon as you make your argument, it will be obviously to everybody how right you are and Klei will immediately jump to and grant your every desire. Them not doing what you want them to do is not a sign that they “don’t care.” Parents not giving their kids what they want when they tantrum is not a sign that the parents don’t care about their kids. It’s just a sign that they don’t agree, that you are quite possibly wrong, and that even if a lot of people on the forums agree with you they could be wrong too. It happens! All you have to do is look around at the real world for a sec to see how wrong lots of people can be when they are sooooo sure they’re right.

Or Klei could have other reasons for not doing what you want. It’s their game. You can argue for what changes you want to see, but imputing motives to the devs because you are in a snit that you’re not getting your way is ridiculous. Obviously they care about the game and the players because they are continuing to try to find ways to add new stuff to the game even though it’s basically finished.

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10 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

I think you forgot that Wolfgang's real "weakness" is his increased sanity drain from darkness and monsters. But that's ok. It's so negligible that your point still stands.

it is such a tiny amount that his X2 damage  turn it into like +5% stress gained lol. Not to mention he kills nightmares just sneezing at them because of high damage + them taking damage after they teleport (Is this supposed to even be like this? In DS only 1 attack can hit them and even in DST if you ride a beealo you can't hit them multiple times).

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I think one thing that would make everyone more fun to play is to only slightly nerf the strong characters like Wolfgang and Wicker Whether its raising the sanity drain for Wolf or making Wickers books more expensive(Just examples) and then just make all the characters as strong as those two are at what they do.

Lets use Webber (My main) for example. Webber is considered a mid tier character by most and I agree to an extent. To put Webber on the same field as Wicker or Wolfgang look at what he has now and either build off of that or give something new thats related to his kit and/or character. Maybe its making spiders not drains others sanity or having them cut trees like pigs too. Maybe giving Webber a disguise that will reverse the "is monster" effect when worn or making Webber able to craft spider eggs with an easier resource than papyrus. Maybe even letting Webber eat more foods that hurt others. These are just ideas that I'm throwing out there, but you get the idea.

Lets take Willow this time. She is considered one of the worst characters in the game and I think some simple tweaks from original Don't Starve could put her on a level of everyone else.Bringing back 100% fire immunity and bringing back inventory burning would be the easiest one, but of course putting some sort of limit on it to only X amount of items so it doesn't do more than around 50 damage per second or less (If you want you could also lower her damage stat so she doesn't out damage Wolfgang). This would make Willow fantastic for crowd control and pretty decent for bosses fighting wise. This would also make her very strong for cave exploration. Again these are just ideas if you want to share yours for other characters that would be neat too.

For one last one lets use Wilson. This is less his character and more that most mobs replace the need for a Wilson. Having bunnies and monkeys drop beard hair when insane completely makes Wilson's ability to create beard hair pointless. You usually don't want Wilson shaving until about spring and sometimes by then you can already just use other sources to get it anyways. Without changing his character the easiest way to make him more relevant is to make the life giving amulet only revive when worn on death and make it so enemies don't drop beard hair. You could also increase the growth of his beard or make it give more hair upon shaving. Right now the best thing Wilson has that others don't is strong natural insulation.

I believe that when making new characters or balancing old ones you should think what does this person bring to the table that others don't. There are alot of characters that don't bring much or leave alot to be desired.

Wilson - He would be the only one to bring beard hair, but you can get that in the world. He still has the strength that he has the best insulation in the game

Willow - Brings a reskinned torch with a smaller light and a longer durability.

Wolfgang - The King of the meta game bringing x2 damage, 300 HP, and increased speed while mighty with the downside of some extra hunger and sanity loss.

Wendy - Ghost sister that isn't too great at fighting things that you can just beat with an axe.  

WX-78 - Upgrading with gears to have the best stats (Wolfgang has a higher cap, but when he is at 300 hunger it drains faster anyways) and being able to go x1.5 faster when struck by lighting is pretty unique.

Wickerbottom - The Queen of the meta game with her insane flexibility she can make farms infinitely better, force regrow things like saplings, charge WX on command, mass produce the equivalent to a pan flute, create boss farms, farm for Krampus easier than others, ect. 

Woodie - The wood gathering character, except Maxwell does what he does and more. Werebeaver was nerfed into the ground with the transition to Together with its biggest trait being that he can dig saplings and grass up very early in the game except Wicker can craft a shovel just as quickly.

Maxwell - Bringing shadow versions of himself to rake in insane resources at great speeds with a huge price of  having 75 HP and losing some max sanity per shadow maxwell.

Wigfrid - Bringing mass produced Helmets and Spears for her teammates or herself is pretty neat.She has some battle buffs, and increase health but not anything as big as Wolfgang

Webber - Bringing the ability to get spider items really easy and having spider armies and having a bit more health than average makes him a decent battle character, but not being able to use pigs makes it more difficult to gather wood than any other character in the game.

Winona - Sewing kit reskin that is kinda nice early game except for the fact that most of your clothing items usually lasts until you can craft a sewing kit... huh

Now there is one thing I want to make clear I don't think balance is solely based on what unique things someone has and how many they bring but I strongly believe it helps a lot. Along with making the Characters feel more unique and fun themselves and making the characters feel different and unique in their own ways and not a "Wilson reskin" cough cough Winona cough cough. I'm sure that there is some stuff that I missed, but be civil about it if you're gonna point out that something that I said didn't make sense. Thanks for reading my semi-ranty wall of text.

 

Just now, TealsMyth said:

I think one thing that would make everyone more fun to play is to only slightly nerf the strong characters like Wolfgang and Wicker Whether its raising the sanity drain for Wolf or making Wickers books more expensive(Just examples) and then just make all the characters as strong as those two are at what they do.

Oh yeah one glaring issue with my argument with my issue is power crawl and making the game too easy. I'm aware, but I think you guys can be creative enough to think a solution to this... right?

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30 minutes ago, TealsMyth said:

Lets use Webber (My main) for example. Webber is considered a mid tier character by most

What? mid tier means he's in the middle, but who exactly is worse than webber? I can easily think of characters that are better(wolf/wx/wicker), but worse?

There's wes and everything else is arguable at best. He's low tier at best.

30 minutes ago, TealsMyth said:

Lets take Willow this time. She is considered one of the worst characters in the game

While unfortunately true, it's just something that stuck after she was overnerfed and people ignored the fact she was buffed afterwards. She's more or less wilson/webber tier.

 

*This is mostly here to point out how non trivial balancing characters is, as I(and I'm guessing others as well) can't seem to agree with things you see as trivial.

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6 minutes ago, spideswine said:

What? mid tier means he's in the middle, but who exactly is worse than webber? I can easily think of characters that are better(wolf/wx/wicker), but worse?

There's wes and everything else is arguable at best. He's low tier at best.

I said that because I personally think he's like a mid tier character being better than or atleast on par with Woodie, Wendy, Wilson, Willow, Wes and Winona which is half of the cast putting him at the lowish part mid-tier. There's alot of flexibility with Webber other than the pigs thing, but tiers are subjective so its whatever.

 

8 minutes ago, spideswine said:

While unfortunately true, it's just something that stuck after she was overnerfed and people ignored the fact she was buffed afterwards. She's more or less wilson/webber tier.

Willow's buffs were all kinda meh. I really like the direction they went with Bernie, but he dies really fast to terrorbeaks with them attack relatively fast and killing a full health bernie alone in 20 hits and with a Crawling horror added Bernie is destroyed in about 24 seconds (The DPS of a Crawling Horror and Terrorbeak together is about 41 dps). Which honestly sometimes doesn't feel like its worth the sewing kit uses.

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7 hours ago, Cpt. KatKit said:

it is such a tiny amount that his X2 damage  turn it into like +5% stress gained lol. Not to mention he kills nightmares just sneezing at them because of high damage + them taking damage after they teleport (Is this supposed to even be like this? In DS only 1 attack can hit them and even in DST if you ride a beealo you can't hit them multiple times).

That's exactly what I meant when I said the downside was "negligible". This strengths counter his weaknesses so well that his weaknesses barely have any impact whatsoever.

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