I Think New Characters Would Help DST

[spideswine]

6 minutes ago, Dorozco said:

I'll end up playing as Wilson, anyways.

But winona is the better wilson.

Kappa.jpg

[fimmatek]

3 minutes ago, spideswine said:

But winona is the better wilson.

Wilson is way better because he could build a magical door that kidnapped him into a supernatural world.

[FreyaMaluk]

21 minutes ago, spideswine said:

Sure we are all aware of KCDA, but the experienced community as a whole is purist(there are are very good reasons behind that), and I think you're very well aware of that, it's very hard not to be.

Except that I don't want to play solo,and this: https://imgur.com/a/tolgW

is a great way to do just that.

And would you be fine with me playing some spiffy custom char, like say puppy princess musha?(Just a heads up: this is a trick question)

What the hell are you talking about? The original pudgy beef isn't even hanged yet, and I still think he deserves worse.

Well "In my opinion there's nothing here to discuss" is an awfully empty statement, is it not?

Can you really blame anyone for assuming you meant "There's nothing here to discuss, period"?

I'm not really complaining, this thread is a discussion, and I'm pointing out that due to where the playerbase is at, mods can't do much in dst(at least server mods), because people want to play with others, and these others tend to not want to play with mods(noobs don't care as much, but the experienced/knowledgeable player base is very purist, and I'm guessing you know that).

My point being: mods aren't a solution to the OP, and they don't suggest on it's validity either.

I don't use anime characters or unbalanced characters.. anyways.. you seem to be just running in circles and drowning in a ridiculously tiny glass of water.. I'm off.

[spideswine]

2 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

I don't use anime characters or unbalanced characters..

 

2 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

anyways.. you seem to be just running in circles and drowning in a ridiculously tiny glass of water.. I'm off.

I totally agree with you, considering my main point talking with you was that custom chars turn people away.

You totally got me there.

[FreyaMaluk]

56 minutes ago, spideswine said:

 

I totally agree with you, considering my main point talking with you was that custom chars turn people away.

You totally got me there.

it has nothing to do that.. just with the fact that you don't wanna discuss.. you wanna IMPOSE

[spideswine]

19 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

it has nothing to do that.. just with the fact that you don't wanna discuss.. you wanna IMPOSE

No, granted there are some things I don't want to discuss, like the fact most of the experienced playerbase is purist(and also that winona was poorly made), and you know that to be true.

As far as the rest goes, you only say that I impose because you agree with me, but want to pretend to not for some reason.

When I suggested one of the few custom characters who actually play differently AND have decent art(which is already a small minority), you instantly shut it down, because you're about just as much as purist as the rest of the experienced players are, but for some reason want to pretend them not to be.

[MondayNight]

5 hours ago, spideswine said:

puppy princess musha

Look! It's a puppy! Not a pleb puppy mind you, but a sparkling wonderful princes! Is Puppy Princes Musha!

[Lumina]

I think part of the thing is that it's hard to change habit. And mods require this.

Other problem is that there are so many mods that seing "mod" on a server means nothing and can't help you to find modded server fitting your taste.

 

I dislike character mod that have speed as a bonus, without downside, for example. And it's pretty common. For me, speed is very powerful and so i avoid character with this bonus.

 

22 hours ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

 

But realistically speaking, as Klei stated already their plans for a couple of Forge-like future events that would introduce new mechanics and further the lore, new characters would be a low probability - more so even after how Winona was received (I for one still wish for an introductory video about her and her role in The Constant).

 

About this, maybe some characters could be rewards for event. It's unlikely i guess (since event aren't available all year), but still a possibility. Or just the possibility that an event brings a new character to the team because the portal allowed they to come in the Constant.

But i wouldn't expect something like this that soon.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

18 hours ago, Jynn said:

I don't think Rainbow and DST are comparable, because they are two vastly different games

having a character in DST that provides a new and interesting take on the Survival aspect, with balanced features that aren't over powered or game breaking, or mediocre like Winona,  is almost certainly a TON more work than Rainbow SIx Siege adding in another character to a FPS shooter

 

not really comparable at all

I don't see how one is easier than the other. If anything, DST would be easier to make balanced characters because it's not a purely competitive game like Rainbow.

Rainbow puts a lot of work in keeping the characters balanced, but radically making them different from the previous. I feel like you've never played Rainbow, because it's not just about shooting: one characters has robots that can zap you, another can set booby traps, another can track people's footprints, another is basically a ninja and now they've added new characters, one that can disrupt people's gameplay and give out their positions by hacking their phones, making them ring (which is hilarious btw), and the other turns freaking invisible.

My point is...They all have powers. In in that sense, it's very similar to DST. And I don't see how DST is such a hard game to keep balanced, or at least more so than Rainbow.

 

[Tumalu]

15 hours ago, Toros said:

@Tumalu you’re wrong about woodie’s perks.  etc

Oooh, good to know. You're right in that it really isn't well documented. I read things on the wiki and assume that whoever put them there knew what they were talking about. Although, reading it again, it only says time double for pigs, and then 1 minute for rock lobsters which is... let's see, more like one third... jeez, this -is- convoluted. A one-third boost is definitely disappointing, though. And I can just use other methods of mass log farming, and sanity isn't a huge deal... zzzz. And so Woodie's elegant goes back off the list of forge item priorities, I'll have fun with other favorites.

[Toros]

5 minutes ago, Tumalu said:

Oooh, good to know. You're right in that it really isn't well documented. I read things on the wiki and assume that whoever put them there knew what they were talking about. Although, reading it again, it only says time double for pigs, and then 1 minute for rock lobsters which is... let's see, more like one third... jeez, this -is- convoluted. A one-third boost is definitely disappointing, though. And I can just use other methods of mass log farming, and sanity isn't a huge deal... zzzz. And so Woodie's elegant goes back off the list of forge item priorities, I'll have fun with other favorites.

Fun fact: Pig loyalty time is based on the hunger value of the offering, while it's a fixed amount of time for bunnymen (who only accept carrots) and rock lobsters (who only accept food that is considered a "mineral").  However, rock lobsters aren't befriended for as long per "mineral" as bunnymen are per carrot.

Also, most of the time people only befriend creatures briefly to make them murder each other or chop trees, so you rarely need them for long enough that you'd even benefit from Woodie's perk.

8 hours ago, spideswine said:

1) It's there, and it's impossible not to notice(well it's possible if you just started playing, but that's besides the point).

2) It's very hard to change that, food just doesn't have that much variables, and different food takes more inventory slots, it's nearly unavoidable that one food will crowd out the others.

3) With the current state of the workshop, it's more like looking for a needle in a haystack, there are very few quality mods, and even less that are more than just "not bad", whereas it's absolutely flooded with low quality unbalanced garbage.

 

4) It doesn't end there either, a lot of the more experienced players take a certain level of pride in their knowledge of the game, and a decent chunk of that knowledge is fairly obscure stuff(like say pigman bait). Even if you would somehow find a mod worth adding, people likely won't appreciate people knowing that mod gaining an advantage over them, thus not even liking such a mod.

5) Granted if a mod reaches very high popularity, or is based on things they are already familiar with(like say a shipwrecked port) people will look at it differently, but as things stand the experienced playerbase is very purist, even more so towards character mods.

1) Vanilla elitism is pretty obvious but if you're using your friends list as a metric, then surely half the community has a 4 star or better rated mod on the workshop, because that's how anecdotal evidence works.

2) There are actually a ton of levers are ways to balance food beyond just tweaking the hunger/sanity/health restoration.  Secondary stats like glowing, damage, speed (not a fan of this, but since SW implements it the point is valid), you could make a food that made shadows/spiders/clockworks neutral for a while.  They even could've made more utility dishes (deadly feast, for example).

3) Good thing they have sort functions that do 99% of the work for you, then.

4) Vanilla elitists won't appreciate it, but you also self-select against people like me on your friends list (which is something I think we both are 100% for) which means you don't see all parts of the community.  I play vanilla + rezecib's rebalance + a wolfgang nerf I wrote the vast majority of the time.  Every experienced player knows the poorly balanced parts of the game, I don't understand why accepting it also means rejecting improvements that aren't only from the developers.

5) Again, your segment of the community who are vanilla elitists feel that way.  A number of steamers use challenge mods, many community servers use mods (particularly if they enable pvp) and there's never been a "right" or "wrong" way to play this game messaged from the developers.  It's only a vocal minority of the community that says otherwise.

However, we can definitely recognize a logical flaw when vanilla elitists condemn low quality mod characters but don't also condemn low quality vanilla characters (looking at you, half-finished shipwrecked cast, DST Woodie and Willow).

6 hours ago, spideswine said:

But winona is the better wilson.

Kappa.jpg

This is basically irrefutable, but irrelevant because the trend I've noticed is that Wilson players are not interested in mechanics.  They don't care that there are more interesting options available (both easier and more challenging) even if they are able to understand the difference.

[Jynn]

1 hour ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

I don't see how one is easier than the other. If anything, DST would be easier to make balanced characters because it's not a purely competitive game like Rainbow.

Rainbow puts a lot of work in keeping the characters balanced, but radically making them different from the previous. I feel like you've never played Rainbow, because it's not just about shooting: one characters has robots that can zap you, another can set booby traps, another can track people's footprints, another is basically a ninja and now they've added new characters, one that can disrupt people's gameplay and give out their positions by hacking their phones, making them ring (which is hilarious btw), and the other turns freaking invisible.

My point is...They all have powers. In in that sense, it's very similar to DST. And I don't see how DST is such a hard game to keep balanced, or at least more so than Rainbow.

 

 

you're right, i have never played it. But i still feel ti'd be easier adding in a character to a FPS with combat-related abilities, and balancing those, than it would be to come up with a character with abilities that would make it a interesting but not OP addition to a survival game

I can't see why it'd be easier to add them here in DST. If you add a character, and you want a new survival experience with that character, then they have to be able to do things no other character can do (think of Webber's befriending of Monsters as an example of game-changing feature that you are asking for)

To do that, they'd have to A.) Find something unique to do and B.) balance it so it's not too over powered, OR too mediocre to satisfy people. 

That's not exactly an easy job, especially when they also need to C.) find a way to make it work in the lore they are developing and D.) come up with balanced stats for that character that are, like the ability, not too powerful or too horrible to work with. 

i'd love to hear some of your ideas on what a unique character concept could be that adds a fresh survival experience

[spideswine]

35 minutes ago, Toros said:

1) Vanilla elitism is pretty obvious but if you're using your friends list as a metric, then surely half the community has a 4 star or better rated mod on the workshop, because that's how anecdotal evidence works.

My friend list, your friend list, everyone's friendlist.

Sure let's pretend this is just a bunch of isolated cases that just apply to everyone you or I talk to by pure coincidence.

37 minutes ago, Toros said:

2) There are actually a ton of levers are ways to balance food beyond just tweaking the hunger/sanity/health restoration.  Secondary stats like glowing, damage, speed (not a fan of this, but since SW implements it the point is valid), you could make a food that made shadows/spiders/clockworks neutral for a while.  They even could've made more utility dishes (deadly feast, for example).

I mean in the base game, yeah, not sure how liked it would be(I don't like the way coffee works for now), have fun doing it via a mod without everyone seeing it as broken.

38 minutes ago, Toros said:

3) Good thing they have sort functions that do 99% of the work for you, then.

They don't have a "sort out op ****, weaboo ****, lame ****" button, there's popularity and ratings, and even these two don't mean much.

39 minutes ago, Toros said:

4) Vanilla elitists won't appreciate it, but you also self-select against people like me on your friends list (which is something I think we both are 100% for) which means you don't see all parts of the community.  I play vanilla + rezecib's rebalance + a wolfgang nerf I wrote the vast majority of the time.  Every experienced player knows the poorly balanced parts of the game, I don't understand why accepting it also means rejecting improvements that aren't only from the developers.

Not really, I'm somewhat of a mod fan, especially since I need them to hang beefalos, so I don't select against people like you, if anything I self select in favor of people like you, but you people are VERY difficult to find.

As far as rejecting improvements outside of the game developers go, we are stuck in a self reinforcing loop, hell if I gave you a list of worlds to play in(no friends/hosting) but only modded ones, it'll take you ages to sort out all of the ones with the ****ty mods(*cough* extra equip slots *cough*), it's just easier to play vanilla, and then mod authors also target the vanilla audience less and less.

This isn't something which is bound to happen, this is just where the community is at, and considering this character mods are not an answer to the OP.

45 minutes ago, Toros said:

5) Again, your segment of the community who are vanilla elitists feel that way.  A number of steamers use challenge mods, many community servers use mods (particularly if they enable pvp) and there's never been a "right" or "wrong" way to play this game messaged from the developers.  It's only a vocal minority of the community that says otherwise.

I'm being slightly over generalizing, mostly because I want to avoid pointing out minor exceptions(like yeah, streamers do things to make their streams more interesting, and pvp is so god awful that you kinda need mods for it), and there are also some minor mods that won't turn people away too often(better used on popular group servers).

But my point remains that as far as meaningful changes go, or character mods go, the experienced community is very purist, and you know that.

[Ressayez]

56 minutes ago, Toros said:

This is basically irrefutable, but irrelevant because the trend I've noticed is that Wilson players are not interested in mechanics.  They don't care that there are more interesting options available (both easier and more challenging) even if they are able to understand the difference.

The majority of Wilson players actually only play him only because he is hot.

Sources: me, one of my friends on steam, a guy on the forums

[GiddyGuy]

Just now, Ressayez said:

The majority of Wilson players actually only play him only because he is hot.

Sources: me, one of my friends on steam, a guy on the forums

Such a wholesome reason to play Wilson.

[spideswine]

Just now, GiddyGuy said:

Such a wholesome reason to play Wilson.

I mean...

Why do people play wendy again?

[GiddyGuy]

Just now, spideswine said:

I mean...

Why do people play wendy again?

Well at least he's in his early 30s and not 12.

[Ressayez]

1 minute ago, spideswine said:

I mean...

Why do people play wendy again?

Take it back or I'm gonna call an amdin and post three pages of replies on why you're wrong until I've properly exerted my moral authority on the internet.

3 minutes ago, GiddyGuy said:

Such a wholesome reason to play Wilson.

Thanks, it's part of my radical self care lifestyle diet plan.

[Jynn]

16 minutes ago, spideswine said:

I mean...

Why do people play wendy again?

 

because of the free NPC that'll attack things for you? =P no reason to waste resources or durability on defense / offense items when you can just kite things and have Abigail kill them, at no harm to yourself

[Toros]

20 minutes ago, spideswine said:

My friend list, your friend list, everyone's friendlist.

Sure let's pretend this is just a bunch of isolated cases that just apply to everyone you or I talk to by pure coincidence.

I mean in the base game, yeah, not sure how liked it would be(I don't like the way coffee works for now), have fun doing it via a mod without everyone seeing it as broken.

They don't have a "sort out op ****, weaboo ****, lame ****" button, there's popularity and ratings, and even these two don't mean much.

Not really, I'm somewhat of a mod fan, especially since I need them to hang beefalos, so I don't select against people like you, if anything I self select in favor of people like you, but you people are VERY difficult to find.

As far as rejecting improvements outside of the game developers go, we are stuck in a self reinforcing loop, hell if I gave you a list of worlds to play in(no friends/hosting) but only modded ones, it'll take you ages to sort out all of the ones with the ****ty mods(*cough* extra equip slots *cough*), it's just easier to play vanilla, and then mod authors also target the vanilla audience less and less.

This isn't something which is bound to happen, this is just where the community is at, and considering this character mods are not an answer to the OP.

I'm being slightly over generalizing, mostly because I want to avoid pointing out minor exceptions(like yeah, streamers do things to make their streams more interesting, and pvp is so god awful that you kinda need mods for it), and there are also some minor mods that won't turn people away too often(better used on popular group servers).

But my point remains that as far as meaningful changes go, or character mods go, the experienced community is very purist, and you know that.

A lot of the experienced community is very purist, and it makes sense that people who like things staying the same forever are the most active and have the most playtime.  But in my case I play probably twice a week for months, and then don't play for months, and then an update hits and I play twice a week+ for months, and then don't again.  I also spend probably 50% of the time I spend playing modding.

What the community could really use is a big collaboration mod called "vanilla+" that focuses on rebalancing features (particularly buffing weak options) and providing more information so new players don't have to learn through trial and error.

For example, a good mod I don't often use is the "epic healthbars" mod which shows boss hp totals with the art matching seemlessly.  There's a reason that most games provide a boss health bar, because without it you might not know that firefly is much, much harder than Goose/Goose without trying and dying and going to the wiki.  There's a reason that "Always on Status" is so popular, and that's because while denying the player basic information is a valid stylistic choice, I don't agree with it.  Knowing that winter is X days away without having to do some math and remember that spring and fall are 20 days and summer and winter are 15 days does reward experience and does make the game harder, but none of that is enjoyable.  Neither is doing math to figure out moon phases, or to not know what your personal temperature is (ambient temp is mostly worthless, which is what the in-game option gives).  It's cheap difficulty, probably turns people away from the game, and you can piece together probably half a dozen mods to get most of what I'm talking about.  ("Bee Nice" is another rebalance mod that makes the beekeeper hat worth making for convenience).

I'm slowly working on getting more character rebalance mods finished where they're balanced more around the Wigfrid/Wendy/Webber level.  Current project is Willow but her lighter works like lucy (respawns in her hand, only she can use it, has the same relationship to torches that lucy does to axes) and I'm not quite ready to publish it.  If we buffed Wilson, Willow, Woodie, Winona and nerfed Wolfgang, Wx, Wickerbottom there'd be a much narrower spread of character power.  For example, my Wolfgang nerf lowers his max health to 200 even while mighty, lowers his max sanity to 150, removes the speed boost while mighty, but gives him synergy with piggyback, marble armor (mighty form negates movespeed penalty on both) and he can carry "heavy" items at 75% speed instead of 25% speed.

I think there's a portion of even experienced players that wouldn't be strongly opposed to those things, or nerfing some of the OP aspects (like bee box honey production, monster meat into eggs, etc.)

[Lumina]

17 minutes ago, Toros said:

Knowing that winter is X days away without having to do some math and remember that spring and fall are 20 days and summer and winter are 15 days does reward experience and does make the game harder, but none of that is enjoyable.  Neither is doing math to figure out moon phases, or to not know what your personal temperature is (ambient temp is mostly worthless, which is what the in-game option gives).  It's cheap difficulty, probably turns people away from the game, and you can piece together probably half a dozen mods to get most of what I'm talking about.  ("Bee Nice" is another rebalance mod that makes the beekeeper hat worth making for convenience).

But the thing is : Bee Nice rewards you if you craft the bee hat (instead of having a nearly useless hat in most of the cases. Always on Status, on the other hand, remove the utility of some items or limit it a lot.

No need to craft a thermal measurer. No need to craft a moondial. Sure, in normal game, you can do math, but you also have options if you don't want to do the math. This mod make them useless.

I would rather prefer mod making these options more useful. One thing i want to try is more randomizing duration of season. So Autumn could be, for example, 18-22 days and winter 13-19. It will make both the game harder and less predictible... But this only have sense if you don't know that winter is coming, except if you did the effort to have this knowledge.

Same for ambiant temperature, you can imagine ways to provide the information to the player IF the player is doing something to obtain it, rather than giving it for free just like this.

 

It's why, for me, Bee Nice is great (even if a small mod) : it enhances something, you still need to do efforts (even if small) to obtain the bonus. And i dislike mods that are removing the small interest of an item (which is different than providing choice), i prefer mods that try to improve useless items (or offers choice, but aren't replacing something directly).

 

Another example : i wouldn't mind a mod adding a tool that let you have more information about a boss (like i don't know, a magic staff of knowledge), as long as it require in game efforts to obtain this information. But i don't really like the idea of having it by default, without doing anything in game.

 

Of course, this is personal taste. I could understand why these mods are popular. But i just don't put "Bee Nice" and various informations mods in the same category.

[spideswine]

28 minutes ago, Toros said:

A lot of the experienced community is very purist, and it makes sense that people who like things staying the same forever are the most active and have the most playtime.

I'm not sure about that, they just really like the base game, hell I think most of them want changes, they just want them to be official ones.

28 minutes ago, Toros said:

What the community could really use is a big collaboration mod called "vanilla+" that focuses on rebalancing features (particularly buffing weak options) and providing more information so new players don't have to learn through trial and error.

The main issue is that you'd want most people to see it as balanced, good luck with that.

28 minutes ago, Toros said:

For example, a good mod I don't often use is the "epic healthbars" mod which shows boss hp totals with the art matching seemlessly.  There's a reason that most games provide a boss health bar, because without it you might not know that firefly is much, much harder than Goose/Goose without trying and dying and going to the wiki.

I actually don't feel like it fits well with the game, because part of it is in fact not giving players information, and then from the perspective of a more knowledgeable player, it feels silly to me for a punching bag to have a big health bar above my screen.

28 minutes ago, Toros said:

There's a reason that "Always on Status" is so popular, and that's because while denying the player basic information is a valid stylistic choice, I don't agree with it.  Knowing that winter is X days away without having to do some math and remember that spring and fall are 20 days and summer and winter are 15 days does reward experience and does make the game harder, but none of that is enjoyable

I actually think that the lack of information is very fun at first, but as you say just becomes annoying later on, so it's good that said mod exists and I'm definitely a fan of it, but I think it's better for people to start off without it.(also it's a client mod)

28 minutes ago, Toros said:

I'm slowly working on getting more character rebalance mods finished where they're balanced more around the Wigfrid/Wendy/Webber level.  Current project is Willow but her lighter works like lucy (respawns in her hand, only she can use it, has the same relationship to torches that lucy does to axes) and I'm not quite ready to publish it.  If we buffed Wilson, Willow, Woodie, Winona and nerfed Wolfgang, Wx, Wickerbottom there'd be a much narrower spread of character power.  For example, my Wolfgang nerf lowers his max health to 200 even while mighty, lowers his max sanity to 150, removes the speed boost while mighty, but gives him synergy with piggyback, marble armor (mighty form negates movespeed penalty on both) and he can carry "heavy" items at 75% speed instead of 25% speed.

I think there's a portion of even experienced players that wouldn't be strongly opposed to those things, or nerfing some of the OP aspects (like bee box honey production, monster meat into eggs, etc.)

The way things are now is that a mod needs to reach a certain popularity(very high one at that) for people to feel comfortable with it, and I kinda doubt people will be out on the lookout for nerfs.

[Toros]

30 minutes ago, spideswine said:

1) I'm not sure about that, they just really like the base game, hell I think most of them want changes, they just want them to be official ones.

2) The main issue is that you'd want most people to see it as balanced, good luck with that.

3) I actually don't feel like it fits well with the game, because part of it is in fact not giving players information, and then from the perspective of a more knowledgeable player, it feels silly to me for a punching bag to have a big health bar above my screen.

I actually think that the lack of information is very fun at first, but as you see just becomes annoying later on, so it's good that said mod exists and I'm definitely a fan of it, but I think it's better for people to start off without it.(also it's a client mod)

4) The way things are now is that a mod needs to reach a certain popularity(very high one at that) for people to feel comfortable with it, and I kinda doubt people will be out for the lookout for nerfs.

1) I don't understand that position, to be honest.  There are definitely mod characters that are better than the SW ones, and the Willow and Woodie nerfs are a huge misstep that it doesn't appear the devs have any interest in correcting.  I don't see why an intelligent person would want to play an official version over a version that was better balanced given the choice.

2) Fortunately for me personally 90%+ of the time I'm playing with my fiancee in a server we host so I don't depend on other people's approval, but you make a fair point.  Most of this community either doesn't care about balance changes or isn't able to tell OP features from UP features.

3) Like I said, it's a stylistic choice the devs made to be very limited with their information.  But if I was a new player I wouldn't know that bee queen isn't practical to fight solo without potentially frustrating trial and error.  If the wiki didn't exist or was slightly more inaccurate than it is, the only way to learn anything would be from trial and error or a huge time investment.  More information would help new players and wouldn't make things easier long-term, which is probably a good change overall.

4) I agree, and nerfing mods are invariably a lot less subscribed to than buffing ones.  Personally though, I'd rather play with a few people in a more balanced game than a mod that has tons of subscribers.

34 minutes ago, Lumina said:

But the thing is : Bee Nice rewards you if you craft the bee hat (instead of having a nearly useless hat in most of the cases. Always on Status, on the other hand, remove the utility of some items or limit it a lot.

No need to craft a thermal measurer. No need to craft a moondial. Sure, in normal game, you can do math, but you also have options if you don't want to do the math. This mod make them useless.

I would rather prefer mod making these options more useful. One thing i want to try is more randomizing duration of season. So Autumn could be, for example, 18-22 days and winter 13-19. It will make both the game harder and less predictible... But this only have sense if you don't know that winter is coming, except if you did the effort to have this knowledge.

Same for ambiant temperature, you can imagine ways to provide the information to the player IF the player is doing something to obtain it, rather than giving it for free just like this.

 

It's why, for me, Bee Nice is great (even if a small mod) : it enhances something, you still need to do efforts (even if small) to obtain the bonus. And i dislike mods that are removing the small interest of an item (which is different than providing choice), i prefer mods that try to improve useless items (or offers choice, but aren't replacing something directly).

 

Another example : i wouldn't mind a mod adding a tool that let you have more information about a boss (like i don't know, a magic staff of knowledge), as long as it require in game efforts to obtain this information. But i don't really like the idea of having it by default, without doing anything in game.

 

Of course, this is personal taste. I could understand why these mods are popular. But i just don't put "Bee Nice" and various informations mods in the same category.

Does anyone actually make a moondial or a thermal measurer?  You see the moon phase every night, do you really need it during the day too?  I also don't care about the ambient temp, I care about my character's personal temp which is only clear when you're close to overheating or freezing.

[spideswine]

18 minutes ago, Toros said:

I don't understand that position, to be honest.  There are definitely mod characters that are better than the SW ones,

Well that's just of reasons not to use a mod(alongside weaboo/furry/op/etc chars), I mean take woka or weston, I think we can agree their art is very good, they fit in the don't starve universe, and they aren't op.

However...why would I want to play them? They are about as interesting as warly(who I don't like at all), so I'm not gonna use them for myself, and they still might turn away people(not so much hardcore purists as much as people scared by the custom char icon), I suppose I can use them if someone asks me to, but I haven't seen that happen, as seemingly people aren't interested in them either.

18 minutes ago, Toros said:

Willow and Woodie nerfs are a huge misstep that it doesn't appear the devs have any interest in correcting.  I don't see why an intelligent person would want to play an official version over a version that was better balanced given the choice.

The answer is simple: consistency and knowledge.

Say I'd want a woodie buff, and say others want it to, which one am I gonna use?

Some will buff him to levels others would be uncomfortable with him, or not buff him enough for people to see the point in it(hell, it's possible you'd get both of these for the same mod), and even if some were good, which one am I gonna pick?

Take wendy for example, a lot of her players take pride in just how familiar they are with the way she and abigails AI work, that's not gonna work for a mod rework that's not only isn't always present, but often varies depending on which mod you're using.

18 minutes ago, Toros said:

Fortunately for me personally 90%+ of the time I'm playing with my fiancee in a server we host so I don't depend on other people's approval, but you make a fair point.  Most of this community either doesn't care about balance changes or isn't able to tell OP features from UP features.

Or doesn't want to bother with fully analyzing and mastering something which rarely is present.

18 minutes ago, Toros said:

Like I said, it's a stylistic choice the devs made to be very limited with their information.  But if I was a new player I wouldn't know that bee queen isn't practical to fight solo without potentially frustrating trial and error.  If the wiki didn't exist or was slightly more inaccurate than it is, the only way to learn anything would be from trial and error or a huge time investment.  More information would help new players and wouldn't make things easier long-term, which is probably a good change overall.

Yes, but the wiki does exist.

Otherwise I'd agree with you.

18 minutes ago, Toros said:

I agree, and nerfing mods are invariably a lot less subscribed to than buffing ones.  Personally though, I'd rather play with a few people in a more balanced game than a mod that has tons of subscribers.

Yeah I'm having a lot of trouble finding a few people to consistently play with outside of purely vanilla settings(or maybe some very minor mods(setpieces)).(Oh and mods I disapprove of, mostly extra equip slots)

[Toros]

14 minutes ago, spideswine said:

Well that's just of reasons not to use a mod(alongside weaboo/furry/op/etc chars), I mean take woka or weston, I think we can agree their art is very good, they fit in the don't starve universe, and they aren't op.

However...why would I want to play them? They are about as interesting as warly(who I don't like at all), so I'm not gonna use them for myself, and they still might turn away people(not so much hardcore purists as much as people scared by the custom char icon), I suppose I can use them if someone asks me to, but I haven't seen that happen, as seemingly people aren't interested in them either.

The answer is simple: consistency and knowledge.

Say I'd want a woodie buff, and say others want it to, which one am I gonna use?

Some will buff him to levels others would be uncomfortable with him, or not buff him enough for people to see the point in it(hell, it's possible you'd get both of these for the same mod), and even if some were good, which one am I gonna pick?

Take wendy for example, a lot of her players take pride in just how familiar they are with the way she and abigails AI work, that's not gonna work for a mod rework that's not only isn't always present, but often varies depending on which mod you're using.

Or doesn't want to bother with fully analyzing and mastering something which rarely is present.

Yes, but the wiki does exist.

Otherwise I'd agree with you.

Yeah I'm having a lot of trouble finding a few people to consistently play with outside of purely vanilla settings(or maybe some very minor mods(setpieces)).(Oh and mods I disapprove of, mostly extra equip slots)

We can agree that extra equip slots is ********, but what mods would you use?