I Think New Characters Would Help DST

[landromat]

mods are like fanfics. I prefer vanilla stuff and some qol mods

[spideswine]

1 minute ago, FreyaMaluk said:

in public servers, but you can make friends and try and experiment with mods. it's worth it.

Unfortunately custom char mods will even turn most friends away.

[minespatch]

4 hours ago, PillsStealer said:

Yes! More characters so we can get angry for it not meeting our expectations! More 24 page threads about character balance!

"Wilton is op. He needs debuffing underwear"

[Jynn]

I don't think Rainbow and DST are comparable, because they are two vastly different games

having a character in DST that provides a new and interesting take on the Survival aspect, with balanced features that aren't over powered or game breaking, or mediocre like Winona,  is almost certainly a TON more work than Rainbow SIx Siege adding in another character to a FPS shooter

 

not really comparable at all

[Mario384]

I'd rather Klei focus on fixing what we have as of right now, as mentioned, Woodie and Willow are in desperate need of touch-ups.  Heck, Maxwell could even use a bit of quality of life work done to his workers, but his situation is no where near as bad as Woodie and Willow's, as even those two are playable, their unique features were sprayed by a fire hose and watered down to hell.  Even though Willow got Bernie (I don't mind it, but it wasn't needed?  I've grown to like Bernie, but he's useless in most cases) Woodie got... double follower time for some reason, their main perks (fire immunity and werebeaver) are useless.

[Tumalu]

37 minutes ago, Mario384 said:

Woodie got... double follower time for some reason, their main perks (fire immunity and werebeaver) are useless.

Woodie also gets 5 sanity for planting pinecones- pretty good, considering how easily he drowns in the things it makes sanity a non-factor. Dig all the graves, freely farm nightmare fuel the minute you can prototype log armor, and hang out in caves. And double follower time is somewhat useful if you want to have rock lobsters clear the ruins for you, those things are -tanks-.

But I definitely agree that the werebeaver could use a tweak to make it less actively oppressive. It lets him farm wood like a Maxwell with 4 shadow loggers, at least. Honestly, if he started out this way, people probably wouldn't mind him so much, he's not -that- bad; he just plays completely different than he did in single player. People pick Woodie wanting werebeaver like singleplayer, but in DST Woodie is more just sanity/logs. (Maxwell with more HP? >.>) With a side of minor follower perk.

But it -is- a bit of a shame, because the werebeaver is really interesting, and in DST it's sort of wasted.

(this thread's topic is so close to character balance I can't help it auuughhh)

[KoreanWaffles]

35 minutes ago, Mario384 said:

their unique features were sprayed by a fire hose

It's a good thing Willow has fire immunity!

[VexTheHex]

 I was hyped for some people to show up ever since DST became a thing. I'm fine with the current cast, but it's always nice to think of what we could get as well. After quite some time we got Winona now. I'm happy to see a new face, but I find she is very stale. Her being a "better" Wilson as others have stated is not a good character design. I'm glad for those who love her and appreciate we got a new character though. She just really missed the mark for me.

 I would honestly take Warly over her easily. His portable crock pot and being able to make other recipes (obviously a few wouldn't work, but he could get a few replacements) easily make him more game changing than her. Balance wise he may of been some trouble, but I do think he could of been interesting.

[Toros]

On 11/30/2017 at 4:02 PM, Starlogy said:

my guy youre saying we need new characters but winonas a new character.

and sure you make the point that she brings nothing new to the table but simply put it, that's not true.

her faster crafting, while unnoticable at first, makes megabases so much faster to make.

duct tape literally replaces sewing kits for her, providing a way to manage clothing without the need for hound teeth. plus in my opinion the tape is better, as you have 40 charges with a max stack over 5 with a sewing kit.

I’m not sold on the “time saved for a megabase” argument because I think maxwell saves more time with his workers than Winona ever could.

Her sewing kit is definitely a redundant feature because hound waves deliver far more teeth than you will ever need.  It’s a pretty useless perk when you consider by the time you have clothing worth sewing you probably half half a stack of hounds teeth saved.

I’m tempted to disagree with @TheKingofSquirrels on principle but I strongly feel quality over quantity.  I see no reason Wilson should be so dull, Willow and Woodie should be so weak, nor why Wx/Wicker/Wolfgang should be so absurdly powerful with minimal drawbacks.

@Tumalu you’re wrong about woodie’s perks.  He gets 45 insulation (Wilson’s stage two beard) and has the “polite” tag which gives a 50% bonus for follower time for bunnymen and rock lobsters and extends the max amount of time that a pigman can be befriended from 2.5 to 3 days.

It’s convoluted, not documented (and most people just believe unfounded rumors instead of checking the code) and generally not very useful.  Especially when you consider how easy it is to stockpile carrots from bunnyman farms and rocks in general.

Woodie has a lot of neat mechanics and is the best character at dealing with a world that has been picked clean of flint (go werebeaver and gnaw boulders) or a winter start (lucy provides plenty of firewood, and Wilson takes 9 days to equal his passive insulation).

His only actually bad feature is werebeaver form’s stats being garbage and the sanity drain.

[FreyaMaluk]

6 hours ago, spideswine said:

Unfortunately custom char mods will even turn most friends away.

you need new friends then.. lol

[Donke60]

7 hours ago, minespatch said:

"Wilton is op. He needs debuffing underwear"

 What

A shooter generally especially this one have a lot more mechanical depth or just mechanics, so they have more freedom when making a new character, woodie, Williow, Maxwell other wilson(but better) all introduced in some form a new mechanic or mechanics to them. They also did this with SW as well and so making a character as Kiel has done so far would mean probably new mechanics to think of which is a lot more time just from thought alone. Also they made Winiona fit into the story line so for DST you probably will not get a new character unless it fits canonically. I can say that with almost complete certainty.

Hamlet might introduce more playable characters I don’t really want it too. But when people talk about hamlet it’s either new characters or “will the pigs be racist against Webber?”  The last part being the STUPIDEST question like they were racist in the first place.

 

I would of made more points but @Toros did that for me now time to bring this to Discord cause I have too much time right now 

[spideswine]

3 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

you need new friends then.. lol

I mean sure noobs probably won't mind custom characters, but then again I don't really want to play with noobs either.

It's just the way people make custom chars, either the art is subpar, either they are op ****, either they are primadonnas, or a combination of these features, I can't really blame anyone for not wanting to play with them.

[Toros]

59 minutes ago, spideswine said:

I mean sure noobs probably won't mind custom characters, but then again I don't really want to play with noobs either.

It's just the way people make custom chars, either the art is subpar, either they are op ****, either they are primadonnas, or a combination of these features, I can't really blame anyone for not wanting to play with them.

I’m not sure where the attitude that “experienced players prefer vanilla” comes from but I’ve been playing since DS was in beta.  Vanilla DS/DST has unfortunate balance not just between the characters but between the given strategies for a situation.  If you ignore the options that are relatively expensive and inefficient the game’s content shrinks dramatically.

How many crockpot recipes are actually worth making?

How many magic/ruins items don’t even have niche uses? (Looking at you, bat bat and OMB)

We’ve already discussed that most of the mods are low quality, but separating the grain from the chaff is always necessary when looking at community produced content.

There still are a lot of mods that are fun and balanced (or nerf things that deserve it).

Joeshmocool stuff is arguably the best player of all time, and he not only used mods but wrote them.

[spideswine]

10 minutes ago, Toros said:

I’m not sure where the attitude that “experienced players prefer vanilla” comes from

It's there, and it's impossible not to notice(well it's possible if you just started playing, but that's besides the point).

10 minutes ago, Toros said:

How many crockpot recipes are actually worth making?

It's very hard to change that, food just doesn't have that much variables, and different food takes more inventory slots, it's nearly unavoidable that one food will crowd out the others.

10 minutes ago, Toros said:

We’ve already discussed that most of the mods are low quality, but separating the grain from the chaff is always necessary when looking at community produced content.

With the current state of the workshop, it's more like looking for a needle in a haystack, there are very few quality mods, and even less that are more than just "not bad", whereas it's absolutely flooded with low quality unbalanced garbage.

 

It doesn't end there either, a lot of the more experienced players take a certain level of pride in their knowledge of the game, and a decent chunk of that knowledge is fairly obscure stuff(like say pigman bait). Even if you would somehow find a mod worth adding, people likely won't appreciate people knowing that mod gaining an advantage over them, thus not even liking such a mod.

Granted if a mod reaches very high popularity, or is based on things they are already familiar with(like say a shipwrecked port) people will look at it differently, but as things stand the experienced playerbase is very purist, even more so towards character mods.

[Donke60]

1 hour ago, spideswine said:

I'm just being lazy

FTFY

[spideswine]

1 minute ago, Donke60 said:

FTFY

Says the guy with the 4 letter response.

[Donke60]

Just now, spideswine said:

Says the guy with the 4 letter response.

I'm mean that's what most of your argument amounts too. I know are a purist experience so you want things changed at the core. However what you want is not going to happen. Now if you use mods, even though it is work you can have the experience you want. What you are doing isn't working and is just madness it isn't really worth discussing what you want.

[spideswine]

4 minutes ago, Donke60 said:

I'm mean that's what most of your argument amounts too. I know are a purist experience so you want things changed at the core. However what you want is not going to happen. Now if you use mods, even though it is work you can have the experience you want.

Except that this game is called "don't starve together", if the vast majority of people with the same amount of experience as me don't want to play with mods, then I can't have that experience with mods.

4 minutes ago, Donke60 said:

What you are doing isn't working and is just madness it isn't really worth discussing what you want.

I don't remember appointing you to "judge of the validity of discussions", hell, I don't even remember anyone else doing that.

If you don't think there's anything to discuss here, then don't discuss anything here.

[FreyaMaluk]

2 hours ago, spideswine said:

I mean sure noobs probably won't mind custom characters, but then again I don't really want to play with noobs either.

It's just the way people make custom chars, either the art is subpar, either they are op ****, either they are primadonnas, or a combination of these features, I can't really blame anyone for not wanting to play with them.

dude.. I gave you some examples of good modders... just try some mods .. don't generalize ALL mods, cuz some are OP.

[Ressayez]

Ohhh nooo, a King of Squirrels thread derails into petty arguing? Who could have foreseen this outcome.

[spideswine]

6 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

dude.. I gave you some examples of good modders... just try some mods .. don't generalize ALL mods, cuz some are OP.

And I told you: it doesn't matter, my friend list as a whole is purist, they also have other friends/servers to play in, and as I've said "find new friends" isn't realistic either, as the experienced playerbase is very purist as a whole.

Dst server mods aren't a solution to anything, unless you want to play solo, or stay bad.

2 minutes ago, Ressayez said:

Ohhh nooo, a King of Squirrels thread derails into petty arguing? Who could have foreseen this outcome.

It's not his fault, people are derailing it by feigning naivety.

He is 100% right about winona, she was just poorly made, and doesn't imply anything about how new chars can affect this game.

[FreyaMaluk]

40 minutes ago, spideswine said:

And I told you: it doesn't matter, my friend list as a whole is purist, they also have other friends/servers to play in, and as I've said "find new friends" isn't realistic either, as the experienced playerbase is very purist as a whole.

Dst server mods aren't a solution to anything, unless you want to play solo, or stay bad.

well... id think "the experienced playerbase is very purist as a whole"

I think SOME very vocal purist are against any mods, which is a bit ridiculous IMO, since the core of the game is mainly "your game, your rules," which translates into a wide range of changes you can make to your game to make it more interesting to YOU. 

And since YOU aren't completely happy with the characters the game has, YOU can look for some modded characters to make the game cooler for YOU in the meanwhile, since now you cannot access new direct klei characters.

As I said before, some of these very VOCAL purist don't even know or try cool mods in the workshop. I think they have this stupid idea that the game is some strict code of rules on how to play the game, which is, as I said before, total bollocks.

And if you wanna try some cool mods and have fun experimenting with some extra additions, I can invite you to play with me someday. I won't judge you cuz you need something refreshing to come back into the game.

Or, you can just admit, you are done with the game. And that's ok too.

 

[Donke60]

1 minute ago, spideswine said:

don't remember appointing you to "judge of the validity of discussions", hell, I don't even remember anyone else doing that.

If you don't think there's anything to discuss here, then don't discuss anything here.

well sorry I guess I always need a big sign that reads 'IN MY OPINION"

 

44 minutes ago, spideswine said:

Except that this game is called "don't starve together", if the vast majority of people with the same amount of experience as me don't want to play with mods, then I can't have that experience with them.

then IN MY OPINION, you should just accept things and enjoy from what the game is, If you are unwilling to use mods. You of course have the right to complain I just think your complaints are falling on more then my deaf ears.
 

 

[spideswine]

22 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

well... id think "the experienced playerbase is very purist as a whole"

I think SOME very vocal purist are against any mods, which is a bit ridiculous IMO, since the core of the game is mainly "your game, your rules," which translates into a wide range of changes you can make to your game to make it more interesting to YOU.

Sure we are all aware of KCDA, but the experienced community as a whole is purist(there are are very good reasons behind that), and I think you're very well aware of that, it's very hard not to be.

22 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

And since YOU aren't completely happy with the characters the game has, YOU can look for some modded characters to make the game cooler for YOU in the meanwhile, since now you cannot access new direct klei characters.

Except that I don't want to play solo,and this: https://imgur.com/a/tolgW

is a great way to do just that.

22 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

And if you wanna try some cool mods and have fun experimenting with some extra additions, I can invite you to play with me someday. I won't judge you cuz you need something refreshing to come back into the game.

And would you be fine with me playing some spiffy custom char, like say puppy princess musha?(Just a heads up: this is a trick question)

22 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Or, you can just admit, you are done with the game. And that's ok too.

What the hell are you talking about? The original pudgy beef isn't even hanged yet, and I still think he deserves worse.

16 minutes ago, Donke60 said:

well sorry I guess I always need a big sign that reads 'IN MY OPINION"

Well "In my opinion there's nothing here to discuss" is an awfully empty statement, is it not?

Can you really blame anyone for assuming you meant "There's nothing here to discuss, period"?

16 minutes ago, Donke60 said:

then IN MY OPINION, you should just accept things and enjoy from what the game is, If you are unwilling to use mods. You of course have the right to complain I just think your complaints are falling on more then my deaf ears.

I'm not really complaining, this thread is a discussion, and I'm pointing out that due to where the playerbase is at, mods can't do much in dst(at least server mods), because people want to play with others, and these others tend to not want to play with mods(noobs don't care as much, but the experienced/knowledgeable player base is very purist, and I'm guessing you know that).

My point being: mods aren't a solution to the OP, and they don't suggest on it's validity either.

[Dorozco]

I'll end up playing as Wilson, anyways.