Where I think Don't Starve franchise went very wrong...

[MasterWolf]

1 hour ago, Rellimarual said:

If we’re going to measure this stuff by forum posts (which seems foolish, given that a handful of non representative people can generate a ton of forum posts about nonsense, but let’s just say for now that we are), then let me point out that while the topic on concerns about Halloween skins did generate 211 posts, those were, as I said, driven by people freaked out by the mistaken belief that the most desireable skins were going to continue to cost hundreds of dollars, or even more, as the OP of that thread feared. 

No one has posted on that thread for 12 days. It’s not in the first page of active topics, or the second, or the third. It has become inactive because those fears turned out to be unfounded. 

My only issue with you is your characterization of the Halloween event as a “fiasco.” It has been just fine, a small treat offered by the devs, especially appreciated by those of us who aren’t interested in the forge. The hysteria among a few forum posters that greeted its first week or so has died down as people realized this.

I don’t have a big problem with the current system, but I also don’t have a problem with buying skins directly from Klei. I bought the full Forge set even though I don’t really like most of them, just to support the devs. Obviously, any skins you can buy in a big package will be viewed as less desireable than skins you can only get by chance and putting in a lot of hours in the game, because rare things are valued more than things that can be easily gotten by anyone.

I know plenty of players who don’t care about skins or actively don’t like them. Just because a topic about the Halloween skins got a lot of posts, doesn’t mean its representative of all the people who like and play the game. I like skins! But I would not play a game just to get skins. That’s nuts — if you don’t enjoy a game enough on its own, why would you care about being able to play it with a character with a somewhat different hairdo?

It wasn't the only thing that was discussed, it was just the beginning of the conversation. The OP ended up paying a lot of money, I think it was somewhere around $65. The main issue that people talked about was the fact that the "drop rate" was ridiculous low for non-commons. It has become inactive because people kept saying the same **** over and over again. And the people that were mostly posting ended up buying the skins at a high price. I called it a fiasco, because Klei failed to deliver the skins to people in a fair way. This made many people upset because they realized the only way they would get them would be via the marketplace. AS stated by you in the post that you waited until you could get the skin you wanted at a lower price.

If you didn't have a problem with the current system, you wouldn't have posted in that forum. And I was not talking about buying skins from Klei directly. I KNOW that Klei is going to have micro transactions in their game, most games nowadays do. I would rather pay for the skins directly from Klei than pay some ******* in the marketplace.

I said MOST people, not all. And I know you like skins, you posted in that forum a lot about it.Not only that, you buy skins at the marketplace, YOU actually care about skins! I was attacking your premise that skins did not matter, and that people that expect not to pay for them are spoiled children. I just stated the truth, 10 years ago, games rewarded players with merit based rewards. Idling for skins to get a random chance for a gift is merit-less.

1 hour ago, Toros said:

What I love about your post is that it is 100% wrong about the experience ever being a lonely one, and you condemning the caves and ruins for not providing an interesting endgame.  That’s exactly what was added in DST with fuelweaver.  The endgame in DS was always replacing Max on the throne, the story continues in DST which is effectively a sequel.

1) Lumina and you are both at a basic level of understanding which is why I’m attempting to educate you on things you don’t know you don’t know.  It’s not that I don’t understand what you’re saying, but there is a pile of clear evidence that Klei is not going to gouge their customers.  I listed those reasons, you may need to read them for the first time.

The games industry is not “moving toward microtransactions” they’ve been here for the better part of a decade.  They aren’t inherently a bad thing either.  Using cosmetic items to help fund development and free content allows players with extra money to pay more, and players without not to miss out on gameplay and content.  Done responsibly, it has some real advantages over paid DLC, as I have already stated.

I understand there were a lot of complaints about halloween skin prices during the two week period they took to stabilize, but it was the shouting of dim children without an understanding of supply and demand.  With prices so high people were trading in like crazy which drove the prices down again.  A number of normally dropping skins have been $20 and none of the forge content is tradeable which eliminates a similar concern.

You’re complaining about taxes, and I’m pointing out that there’s a difference between building public roads and subsidizing the costs of huge corporations.

My god man, you are so arrogantly delusional. It is completely hopeless to have a conversation with you. I know the OP is annoying, but taking out your frustrations about him in a sarcastic way does not do anything productive, it just wastes people's time.

Just ignore him @Lumina, it is pointless to interact with someone like that.

[Sinister_Fang]

2 hours ago, Master Wolf said:

All lootboxes are horrible because they are gambling, and they prey on people.

That only work if it's actual gambling. No one is paying real money for these lootboxes. They are not exploiting gambling addictions. This is just some random loot earned from playing the actual game. It's no different then random loot like you'd find when playing something like Skyrim, Monster Hunter, or just about any other RPG in existence.

Again, I think this is just the stigma that comes with the word "lootbox". The random gift mechanic has been in DST for quite a while now, and not once have I heard anyone complain about it being gambling and exploitative. It's just random loot. It only becomes gambling when you're able to purchase random loot packs with real currency.

[MasterWolf]

29 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

That only work if it's actual gambling. No one is paying real money for these lootboxes. They are not exploiting gambling addictions. This is just some random loot earned from playing the actual game. It's no different then random loot like you'd find when playing something like Skyrim, Monster Hunter, or just about any other RPG in existence.

Again, I think this is just the stigma that comes with the word "lootbox". The random gift mechanic has been in DST for quite a while now, and not once have I heard anyone complain about it being gambling and exploitative. It's just random loot. It only becomes gambling when you're able to purchase random loot packs with real currency.

Just because you don't pay it with money, does not mean you are not paying for it in other ways. You are paying for the chance at a random item with your time. It is different than the loot in other games that you are required to grind for hours to get the good stuff, and not every RPG has this ****ty mechanic. Skyrim has a lot of static loot that doesn't change. Fallout 4 has more of a random loot element. But what you are talking about is more about a change in statistics, rarity, or special/unique attributes in the items. You are gambling for the attributes of the item, not for an item. And the drops in those (except monster hunter) is much higher than in DST. But ultimately, DST is not an RPG. And the drop system is there for people to idle and gamble for a skin.

They do complain when new, limited edition skins appear. Here, in your own words:

Before the war chest, the random gift was in fact gambling. The problem is that many people do not recognize gambling when it is presented to them in a video game. FFS, A LOT of people are okay with systems in place such as Overwatch. Those people will defend Overwatch to death, and claim it is not gambling, or that it is okay because it is just skins and not important to game play.

Quote

Gambling: The activity of playing a game for stakes or betting on an uncertain outcome.

You risk your time in DST (the stake), for an chance to get a skin you want (the uncertain outcome).

Is DST current lootbox as vile as in other games? NO. Is it gambling and still bad? YES. Would I be less upset if people didn't constantly contradict themselves in the forums? YES.

[Day One Webber]

[Sinister_Fang]

If we're using time as a stake, then life is just a series of one small gamble after another...

[Rellimarual]

2 hours ago, Master Wolf said:

 

If you didn't have a problem with the current system, you wouldn't have posted in that forum.

No, I posted in that thread to say that the hysteria was not warranted because the prices would come down if people simply waited, as the prices always do, and as they did. All you have to do is wait. 

There’s a big difference between enjoying skins and claiming that they’re an integral part of gameplay. They’re not. I know plenty of players who don’t care about them at all, and even some who hate them.

This thread has gotten out of control on this subject, which is not even what the OP was complaining about, as he is one of the ones who doesn’t like skins. The Hallowed Nights Event was not a fiasco, as is pretty obvious now that the dust has cleared. That’s all I have to say.

[Aalda11]

5 hours ago, Toros said:

What I love about your post is that it is 100% wrong about the experience ever being a lonely one, and you condemning the caves and ruins for not providing an interesting endgame.  That’s exactly what was added in DST with fuelweaver.  The endgame in DS was always replacing Max on the throne, the story continues in DST which is effectively a sequel.

I'm sorry, what? DS was never a lonely experience? Are you quite all right?

And yeah, I know what was added in DST. On some level it is a better game, richer, with more content (by this point maybe too much content for my tastes). But again, the social experience of DST kills everything I love about the original game. I tried to play the game solo, unfortunately all the monsters are scaled for multiplayer and it takes forever to kill them. Too bad.

Btw I'm not an anti-multiplayer gamer at all, I actually like cooperative games. In theory DST should be right in my alley. But it isn't.

[MasterWolf]

2 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

If we're using time as a stake, then life is just a series of one small gamble after another...

I love how you ignored most of what I said, and tried to focus on something that might take away from what I said. In your own words:

Quote

"Being able to unravel skins into a currency to make any skin you want feels much better then playing the lotto or just flat out buying a skin off the market."

You recognize that it IS gambling, yet say otherwise. I don't know what else to say, really.

1 hour ago, Rellimarual said:

No, I posted in that thread to say that the hysteria was not warranted because the prices would come down if people simply waited, as the prices always do, and as they did. All you have to do is wait. 

There’s a big difference between enjoying skins and claiming that they’re an integral part of gameplay. They’re not. I know plenty of players who don’t care about them at all, and even some who hate them.

This thread has gotten out of control on this subject, which is not even what the OP was complaining about, as he is one of the ones who doesn’t like skins. The Hallowed Nights Event was not a fiasco, as is pretty obvious now that the dust has cleared. That’s all I have to say.

How you don't have a problem with the market place:

 

This is how you are not concerned about the drop rate of non commons, and how you will not do anything to increase the rate:

Whoever said they were an integral part of gameplay? This is what I said:

Quote

" Most people want the skins in the game, THEY are what brings most people back to the game. People I know ranging from casual to hardcore gamers, they come back to the game because of the skins. Hell, A LOT of the posts in the forums are about skins. So your contradicting views are in the minority. "

It got out of control because people like you started to spew things that were not true out of their mouths. It was a fiasco, I proved it to you. If you want to drag your heels and pretend I am wrong, go for it. After all, it is Thanksgiving and your are spending your time being a **** to a complete stranger, just because you have to be right.

[Lumina]

6 minutes ago, Aalda11 said:

I tried to play the game solo, unfortunately all the monsters are scaled for multiplayer and it takes forever to kill them. Too bad.

Some mods could solve this, if you aren't against mod.

[Aalda11]

6 minutes ago, Lumina said:

Some mods could solve this, if you aren't against mod.

Really? I tried it maybe a year ago and I clearly remember I was looking for a mod like that but I couldn't find anything. I'll give it another try then, if I find one I'll be VERY happy.

[Lumina]

1 minute ago, Aalda11 said:

Really? I tried it maybe a year ago and I clearly remember I was looking for a mod like that but I couldn't find anything. I'll give it another try then, if I find one I'll be VERY happy.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=764204839

Try this one maybe ?

[Toros]

1 hour ago, Aalda11 said:

I'm sorry, what? DS was never a lonely experience? Are you quite all right?

And yeah, I know what was added in DST. On some level it is a better game, richer, with more content (by this point maybe too much content for my tastes). But again, the social experience of DST kills everything I love about the original game. I tried to play the game solo, unfortunately all the monsters are scaled for multiplayer and it takes forever to kill them. Too bad.

Btw I'm not an anti-multiplayer gamer at all, I actually like cooperative games. In theory DST should be right in my alley. But it isn't.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lonely I know I'm linking definitions a lot, but I'm finding it necessary.

The world of Don't Starve has never fit any definition of lonely.  The world is teeming with life, much of it neutral or friendly.  You can befriend pigmen, bunnymen, and rock lobsters to fight along you.  Glommer and Chester (and packim) are friendly companions, and you're even greeted by Maxwell when you start every game.  Pigmen have their own villages, you aren't the only intelligent life in the world.  It's no more lonely than most adventure games which focus on a single protagonist.

I don't understand what you mean by "too much content for my tastes." Or rather, I do but that doesn't make any sense when so much of the content is entirely optional.  Given most of it can also be turned off, I'm not confident you know what you want out of this experience.

That said, I can recommend the health scaling mod you were linked if you find DST too challenging for you.  I find DS combat too easy and DST more appropriate to the challenge I expect from seasonal bosses, but one of the nice things about this game has always been customizing it to fit your tastes.

 

3 hours ago, Master Wolf said:

Just because you don't pay it with money, does not mean you are not paying for it in other ways. You are paying for the chance at a random item with your time. It is different than the loot in other games that you are required to grind for hours to get the good stuff, and not every RPG has this ****ty mechanic. Skyrim has a lot of static loot that doesn't change. Fallout 4 has more of a random loot element. But what you are talking about is more about a change in statistics, rarity, or special/unique attributes in the items. You are gambling for the attributes of the item, not for an item. And the drops in those (except monster hunter) is much higher than in DST. But ultimately, DST is not an RPG. And the drop system is there for people to idle and gamble for a skin.

Before the war chest, the random gift was in fact gambling. The problem is that many people do not recognize gambling when it is presented to them in a video game. FFS, A LOT of people are okay with systems in place such as Overwatch. Those people will defend Overwatch to death, and claim it is not gambling, or that it is okay because it is just skins and not important to game play.

You risk your time in DST (the stake), for an chance to get a skin you want (the uncertain outcome).

Is DST current lootbox as vile as in other games? NO. Is it gambling and still bad? YES. Would I be less upset if people didn't constantly contradict themselves in the forums? YES.

To add to the long list of things you don't understand, we have the definition of gambling.  The skin drop system is not gambling as it doesn't meet the criteria.  http://www.dictionary.com/browse/gambling

You get up to 4 free skin drops per week at basically fixed intervals, with absolutely nothing wagered (you don't even need to be actively playing, so your assertion that you risk your time is absolutely false.  Even if you did, people don't play this game waiting for skin drops, they play the game for the game).  Some of these are more rare and can be traded with other players if there is a demand for them, while others are common and can be converted into more rare items.  There's no risk, no wager, no chance of losing anything especially when you consider the other option is simply not having skins at all.  All items are purely cosmetic thus there's no difference in the gameplay between a skinless game and one with every skin unlocked.

There's no "gambling" when talking about RPG loot either in the examples you provided, because the most powerful items are always either static drops or crafted.  MMOs with low drop rates of powerful items... there's an argument to be made, but it wouldn't apply to cosmetic items in that case either.

You are absolutely wrong about this comparison in DST on a fundamental level and you are severely misusing the concept of "gambling".  Because you take the concept incorrectly so far out of context, the term might as well be meaningless to you.  Everyone here is the same or less informed for having read your argument.

[Sinister_Fang]

1 hour ago, Master Wolf said:

After all, it is Thanksgiving and your are spending your time being a **** to a complete stranger, just because you have to be right.

*Sigh*

There's no point in discussing this with you anymore. You're making things way too personal to try and prove a point, and resorted to petty name-calling. I simply have an opinion that differs from yours. So let's just agree to disagree and move on with our lives. I was done with this hours ago.

[ImDaMisterL]

Hey guys, this is a friendly reminder to stay calm and collected while discussing, so that this thread doesn't de-rail. Name-calling and the likes only leads to toxicity, and toxicity leads to a whole barn full of kitties being destroyed.

Think of the kitties.

Oh, and happy Thanksgiving!

[minespatch]

1 hour ago, ImDaMisterL said:

happy Thanksgiving!

[Rellimarual]

6 hours ago, Master Wolf said:

How you don't have a problem with the market place

I was willing to cut you some slack because you seem young and overwrought, but you are a very dishonest quoter.

1. I never said that I thought the inflated prices at the beginning of the event were OK. I said that new skins are always offered for sale at inflated rates at the very beginning and that so far the prices have always come down to a reasonable level. Which is exactly what happened:

I posted statements to this effect multiple times, which you have obviously seen in going back over that thread searching for this nonexistent "proof" that I was up in arms about the event:

"This has to be a joke" refers to my belief that the $1K+ price asked for the Wigclops skin was probably just someone trolling after seeing all the hysterics in the forum. I really don't see how you can interpret that as me being up in arms about the basic skin drop rate. I never was, and I would know. I never said anything to that effect. Suggesting that people try the Trade Inn does not constitute a protest against the entire skin drop system because the Trade Inn is part of that system. But even if it did, that's not relevant to what I've been repeating all along, which is that it is silly to freak out about how high the prices are for brand new skins because the prices will eventually come down. And they did.

My other posts consisted of reminders that skins that had once been highly priced when new had come down a lot during the Halloween event and it was a good time to snap them up. THAT IS AND HAS BEEN MY ONLY POINT: Skins that are offered for ridiculous  amounts when they are new will come down in price over time. All you have to do if you would prefer to pay less is wait.

[spideswine]

16 hours ago, Aalda11 said:

Really? I tried it maybe a year ago and I clearly remember I was looking for a mod like that but I couldn't find anything. I'll give it another try then, if I find one I'll be VERY happy.

Have you considered just playing wolfgang?

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

17 hours ago, ImDaMisterL said:

Hey guys, this is a friendly reminder to stay calm and collected while discussing, so that this thread doesn't de-rail. Name-calling and the likes only leads to toxicity, and toxicity leads to a whole barn full of kitties being destroyed.

Think of the kitties.

Oh, and happy Thanksgiving!

I have a feeling that is now the main goal of at least some of the users: to generate toxicity to silence serious criticism that they don't like. This works in their favour. I almost feel like the rules for the forum should be changed in that regard; instead of threads being permanently closed, them to be temporarily closed to get anyone who starts to get real toxic in a topic without contributing anything of value to the discussion, should get punished, not the topic itself, then for the thread to be re-opened to keep the discussion going if there's things to discuss still.

For anyone who wants to eat red mushrooms from all this, re-read what I wrote at the beginning. Do you have any idea as to what my points are here? You have fallen into the trap of accepting pretty much anything that is being put out, and then the little criticism that is being put out there, which is of major concern, get briefly mentioned at best, and toxicified to blocking of discussion completely. Only when the outrage is high enough for months does something get done in order to fix an issue.

On 23/11/2017 at 5:07 AM, Toros said:

@EuedeAdodooedoe I think the time has come to firmly but politely show you the door.  You have been the “squeeky wheel” on numerous occasions where you felt your invariably negative opinion was worth sharing on a daily basis.

It’s been clear from the start you don’t have coherent suggestions, know as much about game design and mechanics as a monkey does about quantum physics. I’m sure I’m not the only one who thinks you and two players whose names rhyme with “The Schming of Shumurrels” and “The Schmurator” clearly aren’t enjoying the game.  We certainly don’t enjoy you complaining near-daily about it on the forums, and I think it’s time you left.

I wish there was a nicer way to say this, but it’s clear you aren’t happy here, nor are we happy you’re here.  Doesn’t take a genius to figure out the solution where everyone is happier.

Forced positivity is always good, thank you for that, I really didn't get enough of this already.

 

I can certainly agree with @Master Wolf about the unfinished nature of pretty much everything that has been put out for the games and the lingering of old bugs and exploits. Nothing ever feels finished, and it doesn't get fixed if it's of old content that Klei doesn't want to bother with. How can you give respect for the company when it's doing that constantly?

As for the loot box... well, it's technically already here, and has been for a long time in the form of skin gift boxes and now for The Forge with actual rando drops, which is one step closer from the skin drops to actual random-item-purchase loot boxes. These two may not be the common method of lootboxes, but never the less, they are still loot boxes! It's just an extended method for the current gambling method. Klei seems to be basically dodging the definition, while at the same time, containing the loot box in the game with most being fine with it.

People keep justifying it with the same excuses other game fans have done basically; "games are expensive to make, so they need loot boxes and microtransactions to generate enough profit" while here it's "working on DS/DST is expensive, so Klei needs to have microtransactions and lootboxes for skins to generate enough profit". Whether or not they do is of irrelevance because there are other ways to generate money while still not splitting up the fanbase, something I'm glad they haven't done... yet? Oh, and ofc, the micro-transactions are here already, and Klei profits from that. It's no wonder there are some really, REALLY trashy aesthetic-ruining skins there. I am not against the concept of skins but there is a problem with the statement "if it doesn't affect the mechanics it's fine", because again; aesthetics are part of the game, they build up the game, and if you have bad aesthetics, part of the game is ruined in its feel and creating actual quality art for the game becomes more redundant. And you can't turn off all/certain skins on servers/for your client side at all!

On 23/11/2017 at 4:58 PM, Toros said:

They aren’t inherently a bad thing either.  Using cosmetic items to help fund development and free content allows players with extra money to pay more, and players without not to miss out on gameplay and content.  Done responsibly, it has some real advantages over paid DLC, as I have already stated.

Perhaps, but not all skins have actual quality put in them, and you can't switch them or certain skins off for your server nor your client side if you don't want to see them, so they are kind of forced upon your gameplay through other players having them. Sounds a bit dumb, but that's essentially how it is.

On 23/11/2017 at 5:30 AM, Toros said:

If you agree with eauadobo on any point, that is a clear sign you’ve gone astray.

While I would’ve preferred that there was a halloween costume pack just like the forge pack to limit the price of purely cosmetic items on the marketplace, it’s pretty clear there’s no harm being done.  If you don’t understand that limited time cosmetics with no gameplay effect are inherently a safe way for a developer to continue to fund development, I’m not sure further discussion between us will be productive.

Your fear that Klei will be lootbox driven is completely unfounded because not only is it not an issue now, they’ve consistently demonstrated that they won’t do anything in DST that either splits the community or allows power to be purchased with real money.

 

Consider:

1) All characters are unlocked from the start in DST, no grinding and they also included RoG

2) The rest of RoG content is included in DST at no extra charge, as well as an additional ANR expansion which adds exclusive content for everyone, for free.

3) The forge was developed as a free temporary gamemode where again, only cosmetic content can be bought, and assuming you wanted say, half the content you could do so via playing for free.

Your worries are benignly misguided, at best.  At worst they’re ignorant fearmongering.

Klei has been a consistently trustworthy developer across multiple games and types of games.  I’m getting really tired of people making inept comparisons to horrendously greedy publishers like EA who not only mismanage the franchises they have, but purchase and ruin popular ones.

I’ve pointed out numerous decisions that Klei has made that were missteps and often they’re due to listening too much to the community.

1) Oh, but the grind is the core of the game; that's what you have to do to succeed, or rather exceed. And what did The Forge introduce? Oh, more of ******* grinding! And this time for LOOTBOXES!

On 23/11/2017 at 5:30 AM, Toros said:

Your fear that Klei will be lootbox driven is completely unfounded

Of course it is!

I just realised NONE has attempted to address any of my initial points. You know, I really appreciate that some people would rather just **** on serious criticism about a thing they love so much that they really need more positivity for it.

[MasterWolf]

18 hours ago, ImDaMisterL said:

Hey guys, this is a friendly reminder to stay calm and collected while discussing, so that this thread doesn't de-rail. Name-calling and the likes only leads to toxicity, and toxicity leads to a whole barn full of kitties being destroyed.

Think of the kitties.

Oh, and happy Thanksgiving!

I really wish there was a block/ mute button. Some people in this forums are unreasonable and will just berate anyone that disagrees with their inanities. Logic fails in fandom.

@EuedeAdodooedoe there is this psychological phenomenon known as the "backfire effect" which can be used in this situation. Essentially, the more someone is given data to disprove their beliefs, the stronger those beliefs get. So even though you could present them with tons of data, facts, figures, they will still argue with you and become aggressive. Our beliefs define who we are, and when someone tries to "attack" those beliefs, they feel like they are being "attacked" themselves.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

On 23/11/2017 at 12:16 AM, xxVERSUSxy said:

 

1) Yes, there is DST lore in form of dissipated bits and pieces of a story, hints of one. But not an actual story. You've got some characters you know almost next-to-nothing about (beside Wilson and Maxwell), you have a world you don't even know the nature of (there is even speculation it's all fake, a pseudo-living stage with props), an ancient civilization of bug (?!) people gone through a cataclysmic event, the shadows themselves... all mystery. You have a big mystery. But is ok, is just a loosen premise/context for "here's a hostile environment, survive by getting the gigs of it via trial-and-error". Thus it comes into place said "road from scarcity to prosperity" as ultimate goal. So no, DST isn't story-driven, just your mystery-solving mind speculating about some bits and pieces, connecting dots where maybe there isn't even a connection to begin with; just theories.

2) "You're restricted to meleeing pretty much everything all the time" - not really; you can gunpowder everything into oblivion given enough determination, time and resources. Or use traps, mobs etc. Also darts (again if time and resources are at your free disposal). Regarding in-game  efficiency ..just don't give in to social pressure (aka "players end up playing the exact same way and get triggered when someone plays differently than them because the method is inferior") if you don't like that, letting others dictate what you can and cannot do. And sure, game isn't very polished and we can agree a lot of stuff could be made better... yet time hasn't passed for Klei to not do so anymore (look no further than Shipwrecked and its recent update).

3) "..nature of a player typically is to demand more comfort, not more challenge" - how does this apply to "the cosmetic in-game skins issue or "pls more raid bosses" one: people demanded more, and Klei gave us The Forge"? We got a game mode that is combat-challenging. You want more challenge in the base DST? Again, the time has not passed for that to happen (indeed WorldGen and its options would do some tweaking). More updates will come and is precisely because of "supply-and-demand between Klei and the fandom" we get our collective amount of desires somewhat translated into DS/T.

 

4) In the end it seems you just wanna be guided through a story (more or less in the vain of classic initiatory journey trope) where players are compelled (read forced) into perpetual scarcity survival all the beginning-to-end road. Namely what has been done already in other titles . And I think here you've misread DST and what is all about: freedom of choice. You can sit at gate and survive 1000 days in something akin to a mini-camp if you wish so (and have the how-to knowledge), avoiding fights altogether; or go nuts roaming the world and killing everything (otherwise grow Tallbirds in a corner, heh). Do whatever you want in the given context. And that's the great thing about DST - exactly what you actually want changed into a guided/directional experience (maybe the core of DST is not your cup of tea ..anymore?!).

1) You know what, you're right about that in terms of DST, my mistake. DS had this, but the games generally don't allow for a good progression. This, is what the game lacks in, not that it is good for not having it.

2) Demonstrate relying on these tactics by day 100 without having to grind to maintain these tactics. SW's spear guns seem to be the only decently reliable ranged weapons from my experience.

3) The Forge for a while indeed is a challenge, it really depends on how much you know the game, but even then you're kept a bit on your toes, that is what it did right. But I'm kind of surprised you have not addressed that I pointed it out as a moba experience and not really a survival one. In this game, I am after a survival challenge, which is what the game promised me. Instead, I got a lackluster survival experience which is really a social-club moba with a temporary moba challenge. And yet still, this is advertised as a survival game and almost nobody complains. Why? Your reply to my point doesn't address it here either. Your point doesn't disprove the fact that people keep demanding more comforting experiences, with decorations and skins, all of which is supplied, none of actual critical challenge.

4) For ANYONE who thinks the game is about

On 23/11/2017 at 12:16 AM, xxVERSUSxy said:

freedom of choice

in the way you play the game, you're lying to yourself, and to everyone else. Why?

1) If you're defining "the way of playing" being whether you choose to use a Puffy Vest on an occasion or not for instance, that is very misleading and delusional. It supposes that every one little thing you do somehow drastically changes your gameplay experience.

2) There is, really, only one general way people exceed and sustain their sessions to a point of being unstoppable: grind, grind, grind, expand, beat bosses for decorations, grind, grind, grind. This isn't what you have to do, but it is what everyone does, because you can easily do that in default mode. If it's something you could only do in a very easy mode of the game, that would make more sense. But people stick to defaults A LOT. Most people do. And because they do, you end up with everybody playing the same way. You get to a point where there is no more danger for you. I can't have a great experience in a multiplayer setting if the game doesn't help newcomers more and keeps the professions on their toes, while at the same time actually having some form of progression. Having the option to not progress is fine, but not having anything to progress to is truly stunning. The game has been out of beta for a long time, we now have temporary events, but nothing in the form of an actual self-contained experience that leads to something.

Single player's adventure mode demonstrated that Klei is capable of making at least some form of progressive experience. Server issues aside, I'm sure you could still create a decent experience of progression in multiplayer as well. But they don't do that, they have given up on that, because most current players have ingrained themselves that creating a megabase only to then restart should be the main goal of the game. It already doesn't help that the settings that nobody ever changes in the game because of the lack of support for newbies or any way to progress to a new world with changes settings, are themselves very badly optimised.

If the player is given to do anything they want in default mode without anything to actually challenge them, this is not a good thing. Player-choice is good to an extent, because otherwise you're going to come to crossing the line of having no real objective or challenge to the game, and DS/DST has officially done that.

[Sinister_Fang]

33 minutes ago, Master Wolf said:

I really wish there was a block/ mute button. Some people in this forums are unreasonable and will just berate anyone that disagrees with their inanities. Logic fails in fandom.

@EuedeAdodooedoe there is this psychological phenomenon known as the "backfire effect" which can be used in this situation. Essentially, the more someone is given data to disprove their beliefs, the stronger those beliefs get. So even though you could present them with tons of data, facts, figures, they will still argue with you and become aggressive. Our beliefs define who we are, and when someone tries to "attack" those beliefs, they feel like they are being "attacked" themselves.

C'mon, just drop it already. Take the advice of the post you quoted.

But if you really do want to ignore someone just because they have a differing opinion, then click on your name up in the top right. There's an option to add people to ignore right there.

[ItsPizzaTime]

1 hour ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Instead, I got a lackluster survival experience which is really a social-club moba with a temporary moba challenge. And yet still, this is advertised as a survival game and almost nobody complains. Why?

You post some really funny things sometimes.

You also seem to be teeming with ideas on how to make the perfect survival game. Maybe you should make one! Who knows, it might even be the best game ever with how enthusiastic you are about this.

You seem to just be generally upset that people play this game in a way that makes them happy. People wouldn't be just "grinding only to make a megabase" if this isn't what made them happy and made the game an enjoyable experience for the majority. I'm sorry that you've gotten "so good" at this game that it is now not a challenge and is boring to you, at almost 2k hours I can still manage to find interesting things to do every time I'm on so I cannot relate to your feelings for the game. A story mode would be cool yes, I'm all for any of Klei's decisions to improve their game but with the amount of time I've put into this game for its price I think its close to perfect the way it is. Just my 2 cents.

[Ridley]

@Euedeobabble I would love to talk about Don't Starve design with you, but I am not sure what exactly most of your concerns are. You seem to list everything that you think is wrong, but the way you word things and your erroneous use of commas breaks down the flow of logic in your sentences. I feel like at times I have to decipher what your point is, especially in the OP.

Make it easier on me and focus on one topic. If the Forge "lootboxes" are a problem, focus a thread on that. If the end game of Don't Starve is a problem, focus a thread on that. Exploits, skins, lack of horror elements, base decorations, optimization of game play, and etc are too many topics at once. I want to go into in-depth examinations of these things, but I don't want to read multiple topic changing paragraphs. It feels like trying to fight a battle on multiple fronts.

In short, I am not tackling all these responses at once and I am just confused as to what your points are.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

1 hour ago, ItsPizzaTime said:

You post some really funny things sometimes.

You also seem to be teeming with ideas on how to make the perfect survival game. Maybe you should make one! Who knows, it might even be the best game ever with how enthusiastic you are about this.

You seem to just be generally upset that people play this game in a way that makes them happy. People wouldn't be just "grinding only to make a megabase" if this isn't what made them happy and made the game an enjoyable experience for the majority. I'm sorry that you've gotten "so good" at this game that it is now not a challenge and is boring to you, at almost 2k hours I can still manage to find interesting things to do every time I'm on so I cannot relate to your feelings for the game. A story mode would be cool yes, I'm all for any of Klei's decisions to improve their game but with the amount of time I've put into this game for its price I think its close to perfect the way it is. Just my 2 cents.

I'm more sad that I can't play the game the way I want to, which is an immersive way that has the game put some thought into this. I don't think everyone everywhere should be forced to have the type of experience I want to, but I don't want to be forced into playing with the MLG-mega base day 1000 playstyle, which is where almost every server is going to because of the ****ty game design in terms of defaut settings and different world settings and the fact that the change of settings isn't encouraged. More presets that actually have decent balance to it (e.g. Maxwell lights in Lights Out for one) to encourage people to play them more. You can find fun in DST, but it's the type of fun that matters to me, and what makes a game good. I can have times where the same thing I hate about the game can be fun, but it then turns meaningless when it becomes a chore and a grind.

You can enjoy trashy and mediocre games, but it doesn't make them any better than trashy or mediocre.

I don't expect a perfect game, not by a long run. But I would at least expect some decent amount of thought put into the game design to make something of progressive value that still allows for different experiences and allow you to progress at your own pace or not at all if you don't want to, if, say, you mess with the settings, and for the game to encourage to change the settings, which I don't think Klei is doing enough, and it's because the fan base doesn't demand it and instead eat up whatever gets thrown out, and keep the silence when things don't get patched or completed, just hype up the next thing that will be coming out. Large portion of the fan-base have been dulled to this basic, grindy and lacklustre type of experience, which is rather sad.

36 minutes ago, Ridley said:

@Euedeobabble I would love to talk about Don't Starve design with you, but I am not sure what exactly most of your concerns are. You seem to list everything that you think is wrong, but the way you word things and your erroneous use of commas breaks down the flow of logic in your sentences. I feel like at times I have to decipher what your point is, especially in the OP.

Make it easier on me and focus on one topic. If the Forge "lootboxes" are a problem, focus a thread on that. If the end game of Don't Starve is a problem, focus a thread on that. Exploits, skins, lack of horror elements, base decorations, optimization of game play, and etc are too many topics at once. I want to go into in-depth examinations of these things, but I don't want to read multiple topic changing paragraphs. It feels like trying to fight a battle on multiple fronts.

In short, I am not tackling all these responses at once and I am just confused as to what your points are.

True, my above response points out the main issue that I really wanted to address with this topic. Loot boxes just kind of tagged along, and should have been left to a different thread.

[Raspberry Shake]

You have to remember, that no matter how hard something is, your going to get better at it through trial and error. If you wan't to see this in action, buy the game for a friend and watch them struggle at surviving the first few days.