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Oxygen Not Included - Early Access Coming May 18

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Octyabr    222

I would like something like Don't starve's adventure mode, something that requires certain preparation to do, something challenging but optional. So that when you feel that you have mastered the mechanics of the game you would say Adventure time! (no pun intended) only to find out that you are not ready yet and you must prepare some more before the next try.
-Based on personal experience in Don't Starve.

I also like the Idea of customising the options at start: available resources, stress gain rate, hardness of materials, diseases, gravity! and the occurrence of random events to list some.

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Lumina    2155
28 minutes ago, _Q_ said:

Ever heard of something called learnig?

I didn't, is it something real or did you mean learning ?

Because english isn't my native langage so i'm not sure if it's something existing or just a spelling mistake.

 

Anyway, everyone has his own way to have fun. I like this game and enjoy some progress i could make but some things are too complex for me and i don't feel like learning complex physics mechanisms just to enjoy the game. Maybe it would be better if there were some kind of "scenario", when you have to survive a certain number of day with some restrictions. It fit better ONI than DS i feel and it could add the challenge you are searching without making it mandatory for players that aren't expert.

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_Q_    645
54 minutes ago, Zervo said:

i think you read my post in the wrong direction and assuming the wrong things too.

 

And of course casual player can learn and probably love challenge too, just not in the same level as you or any other hardcore gamer.

I won't be surprise if there is a gamer who is quite smart or even a genius but don't like to play a game that is too hard or need a lot of learning curve or seriousness or lot of time to invest in.

 

as a matter of fact, you can see that in a lot of different game with survival or management theme, there is quite large gamer that love the game but want to play it with little or no challenge at all.

for example, i can imagine some of my friend who love to play this game, but in sandbox mode. which mean they will still be able to create things without any resource and all and want this as a feature not as a command box.

and i can see that my little cousin can play this game in that mode too.

just to let her have fun in her own way, not hinder by the game "challenge", she loves to build & design stuff :)

 

these people just want to build a colony, a big one, perhaps design and decorate things the way they want it.

they find "fun" in doing so.. not by clearing or being able to build a colony with highly management skill and thought or plan to make it efficient, free maintenance, etc..

 

there are different kind of fun & challenge, and each gamer have different taste.

we don't need to trample each other down.

 

i fall into the challenge category, but i still respect people who still want to play the game in moderate kind of difficulty.

There is big problem with early access that lets community have impact on game and various kinds of people that want to play it.

It will most likley end like with Don't Starve where the casual crowd won everything, few few small options left for other kinds of players,

Survival aspect got reduced to bare minimum and replaced by more sandbox, and optional items. While that kind of sandox may work for other types of games with more building options, Don't Starve is pretty limited in building aspect, build walls and change flooring and some decorations here and there, that is simply boring. Game ended up with adding some mechanics only to add items that completly disable that mechanic next day. No idea if you were around when they decided to add durability to clothing items, the forum went on fire from casual crowd and in the end they won, since cheap way of fixing any clothing item was added, and as long as you pay a bit of attention your items are still more or less eternal, not to mention some left over eternal items like walking cane.

The problem is the make it easy crowd is always more vocal, plus the developers themselves tend to water down the game to catter to larger crowd, as it means more money for them and is understandable to some point, but not when you just butcher all game mechanics to make it playable for 3 years old kids.

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Lumina    2155

Yeah, sure, you're right, all is the fault of casual 3 year old kid.


But i must admit i never saw any good suggestion for the also very vocal "make it harder" people. Just complain and "game is boring" and "make it harder", without any constructive criticism. I just remember TWO goods points that were "ice is too easy to use as a filler" and "cooked monster meat make it too easy to obtain eggs for bird cage". Other than that ? Pretty much nothing except "make game harder" (but how, you don't know), boring solutions that aren't really harder, things that you can do with preset (less food, less whatever, more whatever), or complex solutions that require too much work for not real fun.

 

But good ideas about how making the game harder, not that much. Especially, often they want to force people to play the way they play rather than suggesting solutions that allow casual, expert and middle skilled player to have fun.

 

So maybe instead of complaining about casual being a more vocal community people wanting to make the game harder should suggest better idea to achieve that. Because a lot of people are suggesting idea to make the game more rich and fun, and yes, more things could lower the difficulty of the game, but i don't see that much people suggesting fun idea to add to the game that will make it harder.

 

Anyway, a sort of "scenario" path when you start a colony with some special limitation could be a way to add difficulty without annoying people. For example, first you have to survive 20 days with all the things enabled. Then you have to survive 25 days with some limitation (recipe disabled), then you have to survive 30 days in a world with more monster, then 35 days in a world without massage table to remove stress and any new duplicant you have will have 15% starting stress, then you have a world without some biomes to make it harder, then a world when you will not have the upgraded foods, then a world when you duplicant will have some additional downside, then...

Each unlocked scenario could be done again and again, and you could of course do more day than the "win" limit. Or, why not various goal, like "20 days", bronze, "30 days", silver, "45 days" gold.

I don't want limitations, classic game. I want limitation, scenario.

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Beowulfe    183
4 minutes ago, Lumina said:

But i must admit i never saw any good suggestion for the also very vocal "make it harder" people. Just complain and "game is boring" and "make it harder", without any constructive criticism. I just remember TWO goods points that were "ice is too easy to use as a filler" and "cooked monster meat make it too easy to obtain eggs for bird cage". Other than that ? Pretty much nothing except "make game harder" (but how, you don't know), boring solutions that aren't really harder, things that you can do with preset (less food, less whatever, more whatever), or complex solutions that require too much work for not real fun.

 

But good ideas about how making the game harder, not that much. Especially, often they want to force people to play the way they play rather than suggesting solutions that allow casual, expert and middle skilled player to have fun.

You're right, it's very important to carefully differentiate between difficulty, depth, and complexity, as they all achieve very different things. Most of the conversation so far has been discussing difficulty as a means to cover all three, which may not achieve the right goals in the end.

In general, the best approach is ensuring the game has a lot of depth. This promotes choice and options, and allows the end user to decide, for themselves, how much of a "deep dive" (and hence, what point of difficulty/complexity) they're willing to approach, as well as providing numerous avenues to explore once the player is comfortable enough to move beyond their current understanding of the game.

For those of you who don't watch Extra Credits, here's a pretty good video discussing the depth vs. complexity side of this:

 

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Masterpintsman    211

The upside of the concept of ONI is that there are plenty of knobs available to adjust the difficulty: Oxygen consumption, hunger, decor, health - only to name a few - allowing to raise or lower the pressure put on the player in regards of how hard it'll be to keep a colony alive.

It shouldn't be that problematic to implement a difficulty adjustment system that covers the whole range between insta-death-on-misclick and watch-bots-do-it, be it in absolute terms (all mechanics at once) or just to allow people who (dis-)/like a certain mechanic to turn down/up the effect it has on the world.

Key idea would be to give a sane default and then, instead of one-size-fits-all, add the option to tune that toward the players liking.

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Kasuha    1217

The game should be designed as moddable. For inspiration in another project in Unity / C#, take a look at Kerbal Space Program and what the community was able to do with it. Requires providing some modding API but then there won't be need for many knobs because wherever players start needing a knob, they will make their own.

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ImDaMisterL    21425
1 minute ago, Kasuha said:

The game should be designed as moddable. For inspiration in another project in Unity / C#, take a look at Kerbal Space Program and what the community was able to do with it. Requires providing some modding API but then there won't be need for many knobs because wherever players start needing a knob, they will make their own.

+1

Modding support would be amazing.

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Vilda    183
18 hours ago, RelaxedEnd said:

Please You Have To Listen To this When I try to destroy some blocks it wont work. plz fix.

Well, it works for everybody else, so how about a proper report with the circumstances and perhaps even screenshot, save and log output?

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Make it harder vs Make it easier.

 

Well as a hardcore casual user, I would just like to say, at the moment my colonies all die at around 200 cycles because I run out of coal/power/oxygen and they suffocate or boil.

 

Now if you make it easier, then I will play past 200 cycles and maybe do something great. But it might get pointless.

If you make it harder, then I will not find it fun and quit.  But you already have my money, so why would you care? But I would never buy another Klei game...

 

So, please make sure that there is always coal or some other fuel available. And yes I could get the double the number of dupes and have half of them permanently in hamster wheels.  But then the fun is gone, becaue I spend ALL my time harvesting food and de stressing the dupes.... boring.

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darwithe    0
11 hours ago, JulesDiplopia said:

So, please make sure that there is always coal or some other fuel available. And yes I could get the double the number of dupes and have half of them permanently in hamster wheels.  But then the fun is gone, becaue I spend ALL my time harvesting food and de stressing the dupes.... boring.

 

For the record a method of coal production is already in game by use of the creatures called "hatches". What needs to happen IMO is to make these types of things both more visible and more eh formal(?) I suppose.

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Masterpintsman    211
18 hours ago, JulesDiplopia said:

at the moment my colonies all die at around 200 cycles because I run out of coal/power/oxygen and they suffocate or boil.

With geysers the 'suffocate' part is quite easy as they give unlimited water that can be turned into oxygen and (with a detour through hydrogen) the power needed for that process. Cooling the place can be a bit of a challenge, but relocating some icecarrots solves the 'boil' part.

Edited by Masterpintsman

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cpy    725

Why 18.5? Cities Skylines mass transit is coming out and i can't play both :(

Why devs choose this date in particular?

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DatShadowJK    2413

Can it be on sale..

Pleeeeaseee!?

-edit-

Nvm.. 20% discount for those who purchased a Klei Game..

I bought 4 Klei Games.. Yeah I will not get it 20% off 

Edited by DatShadowJK

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rlxtte    0

For the next update i was wondering if you guys can include more saved file slots? I would love an option to have multiple saves for me to try and test out different methods to see which is best to use to sustain my colony. 

 

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Risu    500
5 hours ago, rlxtte said:

For the next update i was wondering if you guys can include more saved file slots? I would love an option to have multiple saves for me to try and test out different methods to see which is best to use to sustain my colony.


 

Save slots? Have you never clicked on Load Game or New Game?
 

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