Cheerio

[Game Update] (Preview Branch)- 211197

Recommended Posts

Keyimin    62

P.S. The hatches not eating out of storage containers anymore is pretty annoying without a new mechanic to deal with it. Yes, for now we can just set all of our storage containers to "sweep only" and dump a container out for the hatch, but that shouldn't be the permanent solution. Cleaning up is one of the few things dupes will do without a specific order to do so when they have nothing else to do, and using "sweep only" prevents that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Vilda    183
6 minutes ago, Keyimin said:

Cleaning up is one of the few things dupes will do without a specific order to do so when they have nothing else to do, and using "sweep only" prevents that.

That's kinda the point? You really usually don't have the space to store everything you dig out. And who cares if it's lying on floor somewhere deep outside of base.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keyimin    62

I currently have 3 hatches "domesticated" inside my base, like many others, that used to eat from the compactor. If I dump the compactor so they can now eat, my dupes will inevitably start sweeping it up when they have nothing to do. What exactly is the point of forcing me to use a "sweep only" feature as a "solution" that?

The point is that while I understand not letting us feed the hatches from storage, there should be a better way to manage this added in its place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keyimin    62
13 minutes ago, Executive_Lurker said:

When will the purple backpack/laser gun bug be fixed. Not that big of a deal ATM just a peeve 

I've grown to like the purple guns :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ghosticus    9
40 minutes ago, Keyimin said:

I've grown to like the purple guns :D

I thought this was a feature until I saw the bug reports. I thought if they had a high digging skill, their tool got all techno. Now I'm kinda sad it was a bug.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keyimin    62
1 minute ago, Ghosticus said:

I thought this was a feature until I saw the bug reports. I thought if they had a high digging skill, their tool got all techno. Now I'm kinda sad it was a bug.

Yanno, it'd actually be pretty cool if they could have different "skins" for their little tools/guns based on their skill set/levels!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oxidizer    4

Was the coal generator "unfixed" ? It seems to overheat in a matter of seconds (and then takes damage for ages, even if disabled). Even with one cooling fan on each side (or built in the middle of 4 wheezeworts), it cant go through a full load of coal without overheating and taking damage. Seems a bit silly for something that is only producing 600 watts.

I think the problem might have something to do with atmospheric pressure. The lower the pressure, the faster is seems to overheat (which doesnt make any sense - surely, radiant heat doesnt care about pressure, and lower pressure means the hot exhaust gases can move away from the generator faster). Is the game trying to cool the generator exclusively through conduction with the surrounding air? 

This is made worse by the fact that, at a boundary between two gases (ex., oxygen and carbon dioxide), the game typically creates one or two tiles of very low pressure. If any hydrogen or chlorine manage to get close, you can easily have a big blob of "low-pressure" tiles around the generator, which then becomes insulated from the (denser) atmosphere 2 or 3 tiles away, and since there doesnt seem to be any radiant heat loss, the game just concentrates all the heat on the generator itself. The cooling fans don't actually move the air (and don't seem to care about pressure), so they just cool some tiles to a really low temperature, practically without affecting the generator. I have literally seen ice forming on the tile next to the generator while it damages itself due to overheating. 

Changing the way the game handles gas boundaries to calculate pressure properly would probably help, but there should always be radiant heat loss as well (maybe cast a few rays until they hit something?), independent from air pressure. 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Octyabr    222

I almost feel the devs are more worried about content/art in this alpha phase, which is a completely valid decision, than the base mechanics, only releasing hot-fixes here and there.

Currently there's only conduction to spread heat, no radiation or convection. So gas tiles with small weight will heat up incredibly fast, and heat up contiguous tiles with a lot more mass incredibly slow.

A heavy change I would make is the way the game deals with gases: Instead of dealing with individual tiles, manage whole rooms, treat the total mass of all the gases, and by extension its pressure which stabilise uniformly, and heat transfer.

Nevertheless I'm quite satisfied with what we have now, and the lot is yet to come.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oxidizer    4

I'm pretty sure the slow "spread" of pressure is deliberate, to force players to install air conditioning, etc., instead of just having one big open base. The problem is the way the game can't handle mixed gases, and each tile can only contain one gas type. That leads to those strange (and very big) ultra-low-pressure boundary zones.

One possible solution (to keep most of the current mechanics while avoiding those artefacts) would be to run the gas composition simulation at a higher resolution (ex., each of the "construction" tiles would contain 3x3 or 5x5 "gas" tiles), but still calculate the pressure and mass based on the larger (current) tile size, by averaging the gas sub-tiles. That would return saner values for pressure since the "boundary" would now have a smaller weight. And it would probably also help with flow through small (1-tile) openings.

But there still needs to be (at least) radiation, and ideally also convection (although the latter can be tricky due to the way gases in the game are designed to stratify rather than mix - i.e., should hot CO2 rise above cold oxygen, should a room filled with a single gas have higher density and lower temperature at the bottom, etc. - changing those behaviours can radically change the intended gameplay).

 

Edit - Regarding the hatch feeding issue, I think the quickest solution would probably be to add a "locked?" checkbox to containers. If it's not locked, hatches can eat what it's inside, if it's locked, they can't. But I assume there are plans to let players actually capture hatches and move them, etc. (perhaps they will be components in some machines?), so maybe in the long run we'll have hatch feeding bowls.

 

Edited by Oxidizer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
fonyo    15

This version cannot seem to spawn geysers. Is it only me? I tried to use reload level but that crashes the game with a bunch of 'WTF' messages.

BTW, game is much smoother in this version at 300+ days with 23 duplicants in a huge base. Lag starts happening much later (don't have to reload the whole game every hour anymore). Thanks for this! Although, geysers are still uncontrollable (had a steam tile with 200k+ kg that, I think, started breaking everything after a reload). Steam and water just doesn't cool down in the cold biome.

Edit2: it took me 5 tries to find a world with a geyser. Am I the only one so unlucky?

Edited by fonyo
addition

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
xbeo    8

With so much confusion about whether a change in behaviour is a feature change or just regression:

If a software developer is using TDD or BDD, which every sane developer does (sadly not so much in the gaming industry), and he is doing a public testing phase, wouldn't it be cool if the tests or the specs would also be public? I am sure that way there would be much less confusion about the behaviour of the software/game.

---

Of course this would be utopia, in the real world even the developers don't know how their code behaves. Or management would think that its a security issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sai05    12
7 hours ago, Oxidizer said:

Was the coal generator "unfixed" ? It seems to overheat in a matter of seconds (and then takes damage for ages, even if disabled). Even with one cooling fan on each side (or built in the middle of 4 wheezeworts), it cant go through a full load of coal without overheating and taking damage. Seems a bit silly for something that is only producing 600 watts.

I think the problem might have something to do with atmospheric pressure. The lower the pressure, the faster is seems to overheat (which doesnt make any sense - surely, radiant heat doesnt care about pressure, and lower pressure means the hot exhaust gases can move away from the generator faster). Is the game trying to cool the generator exclusively through conduction with the surrounding air? 

This is made worse by the fact that, at a boundary between two gases (ex., oxygen and carbon dioxide), the game typically creates one or two tiles of very low pressure. If any hydrogen or chlorine manage to get close, you can easily have a big blob of "low-pressure" tiles around the generator, which then becomes insulated from the (denser) atmosphere 2 or 3 tiles away, and since there doesnt seem to be any radiant heat loss, the game just concentrates all the heat on the generator itself. The cooling fans don't actually move the air (and don't seem to care about pressure), so they just cool some tiles to a really low temperature, practically without affecting the generator. I have literally seen ice forming on the tile next to the generator while it damages itself due to overheating. 

Changing the way the game handles gas boundaries to calculate pressure properly would probably help, but there should always be radiant heat loss as well (maybe cast a few rays until they hit something?), independent from air pressure. 

i read your posting 3x times . if its about heat use water . they use water to in real life ^^ to cooling down 

this picture in ice biome but in normal ( slime ) normal should be 30 - 50*C

ce1a2a5decfa4f37b9d9352eef49a5ed.png

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Vilda    183
6 hours ago, fonyo said:

Edit2: it took me 5 tries to find a world with a geyser. Am I the only one so unlucky?

finding geysers regularly, but since TU I have yet to see a Puft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
fonyo    15
1 hour ago, Vilda said:

finding geysers regularly, but since TU I have yet to see a Puft.

Oh, now you mentioned, there seem to be fewer spawns but there are at least a couple of them in each map. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
fonyo    15

My Turner is spending all his time recovering. :) 

"Yeah boss, just five more minutes..."

 

turner.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oxidizer    4
8 hours ago, cpy said:

Maybe in future gasses will be able to mix?

I doubt it. The whole point of the game is to manage which gas goes where. In a real atmosphere, carbon dioxide and oxygen (for example) would be mixed evenly throughout the whole base, defeating that aspect of gameplay. And there wouldn't be a separation between "contaminated" and "uncontaminated" water, either; one would simply blend with the other to produce infinitely varying degrees of contamination. That would be a very different game. The designers clearly want gases and liquids to have separate "types", the issue is the way the game handles boundary tiles (and the very awkward heat simulation - but I'm hoping that is going to improve a lot).

 

6 hours ago, sai05 said:

 if its about heat use water . they use water to in real life ^^ to cooling down 

I'm pretty sure most coal-fueled electrical generators aren't cooled by dripping water onto them :D. The ones that do use water heat the water directly (and then use steam to generate electricity), but the water is piped in (or added to a reservoir). If the coal generators in ONI were meant to work like that, they would have a water inlet (or duplicants would fill them with water).

At maximum air pressure (and surrounded by a single gas) they don't overheat, the issue is the way the game creates low pressure at boundary layers, and the way it doesn't take heat radiation into account at all (which would cool an object even in total vacuum). It's not that hard to simulate, either, so I hope it's something they are planning to add (independently of fixes to the gas boundary pressure issues).

Edited by Oxidizer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sai05    12
On 3/24/2017 at 8:10 AM, Minalia said:

I had a hatch eat a bunch of stuff but no coal... so i dunno!

you need space Hatch will product coal if they moving if you stay in unclear space liek there is debris in there they wont poop coal , summary you nead tile / land clear from any debris except coal for let them poop 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TopSloth    16

Ever thought of making the first three dupes you get have a certain amount of point and you can allocate them yourself? with each good trait you would have to choose a bad trait and you can choose vomiter or destructive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now