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[Game Update] (Preview Branch)- 210162

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Risu    500
2 hours ago, Ecu said:

Hrm.  So other than the obviously questionable mass input issues, that is only 100g water and 100g algae per second.  That's honestly not all that absurd of a rate of production.  It is just a bit weird that you get so much for so little slime.  That does indeed make puft abuse a whole lot more desirable for sure.

God I hope this math is wrong. After reviewing the code and plugging in numbers, I'm getting a conversion of
30kg slime => 1 tonne of polluted water and 1 tonne of algae every 100 seconds.

Just. A tonne. Does the game even have UI to show that?

Ummm yeah. Go watch the storage on it. It tries to work when it's storage is at like 480kg of water and just instantly stops. It's going to take a long time before it can run another 100 seconds to dump another 1000kg into the storage.20170316080327_1.jpg
 

EDIT: Okay caught right after a conversion. Yeah. That's bad.20170316091941_1.jpg
 

Edited by Risu

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Kulze    12

So, my personal experiences with the 'Thermal Update':

-The idea is great, the added buildings are great as well.
-Mealwood not producing seed anymore makes sense.
-A missing other permanently (!) sustainable food source is a huge turnoff for me personally at least.
-Every building breaking at 75C is just ******** thought. That definitely needs to get fixed according to the buildings, especially pumps and generators. Batteries are fine as well as working machines, but not being able to produce steam with machinery is just ridiculous, I can easily build you something doing that for a fairly small amount of water in an hour with simple materials rl. Also handling steam or any sort of molten material at the moment is impossible.

Wouldn't it be for the food and steam problem I would say it's a definite update for the game, sadly right now I'll roll back to the 'old' build. I hope it gets fixed by then, otherwise I simply see no reason to even bother with it until next months update. Making it very hard to be sustainable is great, making it impossible just ruins the fun, at least for me. (Yeah, I know there are exploits to make it happen, but I don't want to need them to be able to play)

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Risu    500

Edit: Nope. The algae terrarium actually isn't bugged because the interval is 1 so the bug has no effect.

Which probably explains why nobody caught it.

OH JESUS CHRIST. The fertilizer maker is hit the hardest. Let's see here...
1.2 tonnes of polluted water converts to 20kg of fertilizer every 30 seconds.
(Assuming the pipe can provide 1.2 tonnes of water in 30 seconds)

Thankfully it is is bugged where it halts production if the pipe goes empty (even though there is 1.2 tonnes of water in it) and it never stops adding water to the storage so the pipe is always empty at some point in the 30 seconds required and because they changed it to all or nothing, it restarts from the beginning if it ever stops.
 

Edited by Risu

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So to sum it up:

  1. No practically sustainable food source exists now (mush and bristle both require insane amount of resources and as such can't be considered practically sustainable)
  2. Steam generation is impossible (everything breaks from steam's temperature)
  3. Dealing properly with larger amounts of excess heat is impossible (everything breaks at a mere 75 C°)
  4. Oxygen is now the least valuable/easiest resource

This needs a serious rebalance-hotfix ASAP. Because the current state is nonsense.

BTW, I'm pretty sure the 75 C° breaking point wasn't intended because they were saying "New ways to generate steam" about the update, so I think they intended the Tepidizer to be able to boil water.

Also, how does the overload mechanic work? Does it look at the whole circuit or only how much a piece of cable needs to handle? Because in the first case you would have to have several separated generator-battery-consumers network parallel, which is ridiculous. I like the idea of having to watch wire load, but you need to be able to build sensible wiring systems.

Speaking of, some way of controlling the power distribution would nice - like a power limiter, that would be essentially a "valve" for power.

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Risu    500
4 minutes ago, StormHUN said:

Also, how does the overload mechanic work? Does it look at the whole circuit or only how much a piece of cable needs to handle? Because in the first case you would have to have several separated generator-battery-consumers network parallel, which is ridiculous. I like the idea of having to watch wire load, but you need to be able to build sensible wiring systems.

Speaking of, some way of controlling the power distribution would nice - like a power limiter, that would be essentially a "valve" for power.

Yeah the power grid is stupid right now. You have to upgrade every single wire in the system if you need more power. Location doesn't matter. There is no flow or conductivity.
 

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Vilda    183
5 minutes ago, StormHUN said:

Also, how does the overload mechanic work? Does it look at the whole circuit or only how much a piece of cable needs to handle? Because in the first case you would have to have several separated generator-battery-consumers network parallel, which is ridiculous. I like the idea of having to watch wire load, but you need to be able to build sensible wiring systems.

Whole circuit, which sucks but makes kinda sense. You have to separate circuits, no backbone cable and branch out.

5 minutes ago, StormHUN said:

Steam generation is impossible (everything breaks from steam's temperature)

Machine-wise. There are geysers now and magma still works.

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Kulze    12

Actually, I made a huge mistake, as we all did.

The breaking point of machines can be raised.... with gold amalgam.

So you actually CAN make steam, and CAN heat up water. You just can't do it with the common copper. A tooltip would have been nice for that, as I found out by 'mistake' when hovering over the materials, so it's still a viable option.

We clearly need a better adjustment for it thought since melting other materials is now out of the way basically since they have way higher temperature requirements, only lava is a viable source for doing so, and that is not permanent.

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8 minutes ago, Kulze said:

The breaking point of machines can be raised.... with gold amalgam.

Oh!!! Nice catch!

I need to see how this works in practice, but still I believe some rebalancing is needed here, because a coal generator breaking at 75 is just ridiculous.

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Kulze    12
8 minutes ago, Dogbarian said:

That's just too funny, making a coal generator out of gold. :)

Yeah, definitely :p But makes this build far more viable, hats up for this change, I take back everything bad I said about it. With some proper balancing it will be awesome.

Also, for planting seeds: Dropping seeds on the ground plants them automatically after 9 cycles if it's dirt (or natural tiles?) So getting them to do that will be a viable source of renewable food, lowering the humongous amounts of resources needed to do it. Sounds quite like an exploit, but probably the way to go for this build.

Edited by Kulze

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Risu    500
8 minutes ago, Dogbarian said:

That's just too funny, making a coal generator out of gold. :)

Gold and Mercury.
 

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Kulze    12
19 minutes ago, Vilda said:

Making it out of gold does not help breaking, I tried.

Yeah, you can stop them from breaking by setting up a strong gas pumping system, suck up all the gas right away, put it into a cooling chamber and then suck it back out after being cooled.

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heckubis    138

yah the everything breaking every10 seconds and complete lack of reason when it comes to wiring. you can place everything high gauge and it still breaks. 6 dupes came in to repair a generator while I was dismantling it trying to replace it with a couple gold ones for the extra heat resistance sure they last longer but with constantly broken wires it really doesn't help.

the space heater does next to nothing same with the tepidizer. and the hydrofan makes liquid co2, but still dosnt cool down the air enuf to keep the researcher at the adjacent computer from getting hurt

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Beowulfe    123
38 minutes ago, heckubis said:

yah the everything breaking every10 seconds and complete lack of reason when it comes to wiring. you can place everything high gauge and it still breaks. 6 dupes came in to repair a generator while I was dismantling it trying to replace it with a couple gold ones for the extra heat resistance sure they last longer but with constantly broken wires it really doesn't help.

the space heater does next to nothing same with the tepidizer. and the hydrofan makes liquid co2, but still dosnt cool down the air enuf to keep the researcher at the adjacent computer from getting hurt

The high gauge wire changes the amount of current the wire can take, it has no effect on temperature.

That being said, if a wire is breaking, there's a VERY likely chance it has nothing to do with temperature and everything to do with the amount of current you have on the circuit. Split your wiring into multiple circuits! This is new with this patch, you need to manage your wiring, you can't just connect everything.

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Beowulfe    123
1 hour ago, Kulze said:

The breaking point of machines can be raised.... with gold amalgam.

So you actually CAN make steam, and CAN heat up water. You just can't do it with the common copper. A tooltip would have been nice for that, as I found out by 'mistake' when hovering over the materials, so it's still a viable option.

Just as a note, the breaking point of pipes can be raised even further with Abyssalite. Gold Amalgum on pipes is, I believe, +50 degrees limit... Abyssalite provides +2000. You can't use it for the machines, unfortunately, but it's great for pipes.

 

That being said, I can't say for sure on liquids, but on gas piping, if anything state changes (from gas -> liquid) while in a pipe, the pipe will break, no matter what it's temperature limits are. I think that's actually a good thing, causes us to have to improvise other methods to state change things. Already have a solution to get around that for liquid oxygen. :D

Edited by Beowulfe

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heckubis    138

well nothing on my system was capable of generating past the voltage threshold of the high gauge wires so that should not be causing any breakage. and breakages will occur even between the short distance between the generator and the batteries, generator being 800w wire holding up to 2k should be fine. but wires just break anyway

 

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johnruby    6

The coal generator is always overheated once it's producing power. Even when I place it in a ice biome, it still has 120C while working. Using hydrofan to cold down seems unrealistic because it needs continuous manually operating and it is super inefficient.

What should I do? Coal generator is dead to me under this update (beta) !

Edited by johnruby
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22 minutes ago, Beowulfe said:

That being said, I can't say for sure on liquids, but on gas piping, if anything state changes (from gas -> liquid) while in a pipe, the pipe will break, no matter what it's temperature limits are.

Does this mean no more solid oxygen? =(

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11 hours ago, johnruby said:

The coal generator is always overheated once it's producing power. Even when I place it in a ice biome, it still has 120C while working. Using hydrofan to cold down seems unrealistic because it needs continuous manually operating and it is super inefficient.

What should I do? Coal generator is dead to me under this update (beta) !

Wheezewortz + ice biome?  Also try using gold to build it , not sure if you can...i only remember using gold on batteries.

Also carbon dioxide trap heats...

Edited by chestnutcute

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Beowulfe    123
1 minute ago, chestnutcute said:

Does this mean no more solid oxygen? =(

You can still do it! Just need to find other means. :) I just posted a thread in general discussion on how to make liquid oxygen, I suspect a similar method could be used to make solid oxygen, if you'd like. I'll look into the easiest way to get it to solid form later tonight.

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Just now, Beowulfe said:

You can still do it! Just need to find other means. :) I just posted a thread in general discussion on how to make liquid oxygen, I suspect a similar method could be used to make solid oxygen, if you'd like. I'll look into the easiest way to get it to solid form later tonight.

Alright , i'll look up on your thread =P thanks for the info~ :D

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