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AlbertDelRiver

Wigfrid is considered OP? Why..!?

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TitanCat    503
4 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

I think the discussion should continue, I'm actually enjoying it because I like these friendly exchange of rebuttals. Why do people keep insisting on ending discussions when two parties disagree with each other? Personally, I enjoy reading long arguments because I can learn something from them and I like it even more if I can participate myself. It's only bad if someone is expressing hostility towards others, and there is no sign of hostility in this current thread.

One thing I still don't understand is how nobody except me brought up the fact that she can only eat meat, a very significant downside. And when I bring it up, nobody bothered to argue against it. She loses out on a lot of healing and sanity restoration food, that actually means she's a lot harder to manage than Wolfgang. Yes, Wolfgang requires more hunger management, but food is so abundant and available to be eaten at all times, while Wigfrid outright cannot eat most types of food. The healing and sanity restoring Crock Pot dishes, along with Blue Caps and Cooked Cactus Flesh, really make health and sanity extremely easy to manage, but Wigfrid absolutely cannot take advantage of them.

She can't drink coffee!!!! Seriously, SHE CAN'T DRINK COFFEE!

@Electroely Yes, any character can by trapping the Dragonfly between Fire Pits, by using roads, or by using the Walking Cane. Though, Wolfgang is the only character that can dodge her naturally. WX78 while overloaded too.

You know what. I think you're right about that, makes me want to jump into these banter

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AnonymousKoala    3,635
26 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

I think the discussion should continue, I'm actually enjoying it because I like these friendly exchange of rebuttals. Why do people keep insisting on ending discussions when two parties disagree with each other? Personally, I enjoy reading long arguments because I can learn something from them and I like it even more if I can participate myself. It's only bad if someone is expressing hostility towards others, and there is no sign of hostility in this current thread.

One thing I still don't understand is how nobody except me brought up the fact that she can only eat meat, a very significant downside. And when I bring it up, nobody bothered to argue against it. She loses out on a lot of healing and sanity restoration food, that actually means she's a lot harder to manage than Wolfgang. Yes, Wolfgang requires more hunger management, but food is so abundant and available to be eaten at all times, while Wigfrid outright cannot eat most types of food. The healing and sanity restoring Crock Pot dishes, along with Blue Caps and Cooked Cactus Flesh, really make health and sanity extremely easy to manage, but Wigfrid absolutely cannot take advantage of them.

She can't drink coffee!!!! Seriously, SHE CAN'T DRINK COFFEE!

@Electroely Yes, any character can by trapping the Dragonfly between Fire Pits, by using roads, or by using the Walking Cane. Though, Wolfgang is the only character that can dodge her naturally. WX78 while overloaded too.

Also worth mentioning: You don't have to be on a full stomach to get the damage boost. You won't get the full deal if you're not high enough, but you will still get a boost from being Mighty in general.

And Wigfrid's meat perk also means that Bunnymen are basically always hostile to you(Unless you use chester/Hutch).

Currently playing Wigfrid in a run, her diet is fairly annoying because of how many good things are there to eat she can't use. Blue Mushrooms, Cooked Cactus Flesh, Honey, etc. are useless to her as anything more than filler. You can't even use butterflies, one of the easiest food sources. 

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Electroely    3,159
40 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

@Electroely Yes, any character can by trapping the Dragonfly between Fire Pits, by using roads, or by using the Walking Cane. Though, Wolfgang is the only character that can dodge her naturally. WX78 while overloaded too.

No, I mean ever character can without the use of anything. Just their feet and a weapon.

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JohnWatson    3,451
2 minutes ago, Electroely said:

No, I mean every character can without the use of anything. Just their feet and a weapon.

I'm pretty sure that only applies to the stomp attack. You need a speed boost to dodge the swipes.

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TitanCat    503
13 minutes ago, Electroely said:

No, I mean ever character can without the use of anything. Just their feet and a weapon.

No actually you're still wrong, only fast character like wolfgang, wilbur can dodge the dragonfly's attack

Yes you can run away from it, but kiting one is impossible unless that you're using can or a long ranged weapon

Dragonfly can move really fast and it's swipe attack and stomp attack is almost preformed instantly

Have you even fought the dragonfly

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AlbertDelRiver    256

LOL why does dodging even matter as Wigfrid? Isn't she a tank? 

 

As for Wolfgang isn't kiting dragonfly impossible even with the 1.25x speed? I've tried to kite Dragonfly but I still get hit, it might be due to ping or lack of skill but I'm pretty sure you can only kite dragonfly with a walking cane.

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BluesyBuesy    681
7 minutes ago, TitanCat said:

No actually you're still wrong, only fast character like wolfgang, wilbur can dodge the dragonfly's attack

Yes you can run away from it, but kiting one is impossible unless that you're using can or a long ranged weapon

Dragonfly can move really fast and it's swipe attack and stomp attack is almost preformed instantly

Have you even fought the dragonfly

edit: oh, and A-plus thread. It's amazing that people are arguing that Wigfrid is better than Wolfgang. Maybe they're trolling us?

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TitanCat    503
18 minutes ago, BluesyBuesy said:

 

Cmon, Ya didn't even try to attack it, that is just simply running away from it

But sincerely applaud you sir, for uploading this video just for the sake disagreeing with my comment

I honestly though that dodging mean you also attack it. I guess this is what electroely meant by dodging

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Electroely    3,159
6 minutes ago, BluesyBuesy said:

dit: oh, and A-plus thread. It's amazing that people are arguing that Wigfrid is better than Wolfgang. Maybe they're trolling us?

This thread is pretty much a flame thread. I really don't know why am I still replying to this. Oh, and thanks for providing proof for me. Didn't wanna start recording and editing again. My first video was already horrible as is...

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FTR    285
8 hours ago, AnonymousKoala said:

If you spend many days in wimpy form you're not a good golfwank for the most part haha. That's like playing Wig but never making armors and or spears. You're missing the entire point.

Feeding Wolfgang isn't hard with how abundant food is. Wigfrid is a tanker which gives the team armor that's above a football helm but below a thule crown, Wolfgang gives the team food with his might since he is the better fighter. Even if you don't upkeep the max hunger, you're going to want to be close to it to deal more damage and that isn't hard. 

As said before, the meta will be the meta. Wolfgang, Wicker and WX will forever be the top tier characters. Meta.

You actually spend a lot time in whimpy form when there is shortage of food, which can happen a lot in early game. Besides that staying in whimpy form when you are not fighting (which is again - more time than when you DO fight), is advised as you consume less food. Doesn't matter if you have lots of food or not, you shouldn't just throw it away and that's what you do when you are in normal or mighty form while not fighting. Even in whimpy form Wolfgang consumes more food than any other character.

Wigfrid helmet is the best in the game considering that thule crown is not a reliable armor to have - limited resources, problematic access, lack of any water resistance, overall bad item that's not worth the hassle. Meanwhile Battle Helm is easy to craft and you can practically spam it for everyone. Imo. Battle Helm is absolutely top head armor in the game.

If I would ever have to choose a teammate wolfgang or wigfrid, I wouldn't even think a second. I played solo dst playthrough as Wolfgang (killed all giants solo etc.) so I definately know how good he can be in certain situations (killing Deerclops melee under 30 seconds ftw.), but he comes nowhere near close to Wigfrid overall usefulness. Wolfgang's damage it's unnecessary overkill most of the time in exchange for annoying downside.

People that think Wolfgang is better than Wigfrid need to look at things from wider perspective, this game is not only about killing giants.

Maybe this will be controversial but this is my opinion of most to least useful characters:

Wigfrid                > Wickerbottom > Webber > Woodie (<3) > Wendy > Wolfgang > WX-78 > Wilson > Willow > Wes

 

I didn't include Maxwell because I don't have much experience with him, but I think I would place him somewhere between Webber and Wolfgang. Webber requires some skill to play but when he is played right he can really provide insane amounts of quick silk and monster in no time, even quicker than Wendy. Wigfrid is far above all other characters.

Of course some of those characters can be way more useful when closely cooperate with certain other characters like WX-78, Wickerbottom and Maxwell.

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Czeraphine    139
1 hour ago, JohnWatson said:

She loses out on a lot of healing and sanity restoration food, that actually means she's a lot harder to manage than Wolfgang.

 

Her healing and sanity restoration alone can depend on killing things outright such as spiders, small swarms of bees and bats, and frogs. She Doesn't need restoration items for them. I am assuming, of course, that the player is at least somewhat advanced and have the ability to kite everything. That means she is easier to manage than Wolfgang.

Additionally, if a player is relatively advanced enough, she can prowl about on an all cooked monster meat diet. Nowadays, with the Bundling wrap, her food problem doesn't really have that much of a problem either. Of course, that applies to all characters at this point. So this is pretty much moot.

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AlbertDelRiver    256
13 minutes ago, Electroely said:

This thread is pretty much a flame thread. 

You're right, this thread is extremely hot, you might as well call me Mister Fahrenheit.

 

hotter than fire.PNG

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AlbertDelRiver    256
37 minutes ago, FTR said:

 

People that think Wolfgang is better than Wigfrid need to look at things from wider perspective, this game is not only about killing giants.

But it's DST, and who needs to explore as Wolfgang when you have other characters who are more suitable towards exploration such as Wilson (Winter), Wendy (low sanity drain from darkness) and WX-78 (when upgraded he can go on a long time with a food stock pile considering he isn't a picky eater) lastly Wigfrid (lives off spiders, 'nuff said)

Wolfgang is a hunter, not an explorer, he's the type of a character to farm nearby spiders or werepigs with efficiency for food (bacon n' eggs, hambats) until he stock-piles for the base and then is able to explore with the other characters.

 

 

 

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JohnWatson    3,451
5 minutes ago, Czeraphine said:

Her healing and saity restoration alone can depend on killing things outright such as spiders, small swarms of bees and bats, and frogs. She Doesn't need restoration items for them. I am assuming, of course, that the player is at least somewhat advanced and have the ability to kite everything. That means she is easier to manage than Wolfgang.

Additionally, if a player is relatively advanced enough, she can prowl about on an all cooked monster meat diet. Nowadays, with the Bundling wrap, her food problem doesn't really have that much of a problem either. Of course, that applies to all characters at this point. So this is pretty much moot

Her health and sanity regeneration is so small it does not make up for how she can't eat health and sanity restoration food. Wolfgang ends fights faster and with more health, and he can also eat more health restoration food.

You're also forgetting that Wolfgang can also use the Bundling Wrap and he can take more advantage of it as he deals more damage with the Ham Bat and he eat way more types of food.

19 minutes ago, BluesyBuesy said:

edit: oh, and A-plus thread. It's amazing that people are arguing that Wigfrid is better than Wolfgang. Maybe they're trolling us?

Ah, so it is possible to dodge the swipe without a speed boost, however you can't seem to get a hit in.

Also, I'm pretty sure they genuinely think Wigfrid is better, they don't seem to be trolling.

17 minutes ago, FTR said:

You actually spend a lot time in whimpy form when there is shortage of food, which can happen a lot in early game. Besides that staying in whimpy form when you are not fighting (which is again - more time than when you DO fight), is advised as you consume less food. Doesn't matter if you have lots of food or not, you shouldn't just throw it away and that's what you do when you are in normal or mighty form while not fighting. Even in whimpy form Wolfgang consumes more food than any other character.

This absolutely isn't how Wolfgang is played. I could easily maintain Mighty mode from Day 2 and the speed boost also helps you run around the edges of the map faster in the early days. It's not that hard to punch butterflies and pick berries, you know. If you have food and have a good stock, there's no reason not to eat them. I have never gone Wimpy while playing Wolfgang, there's almost no reason to do so.

17 minutes ago, FTR said:

Wigfrid helmet is the best in the game considering that thule crown is not a reliable armor to have - limited resources, problematic access, lack of any water resistance, overall bad item that's not worth the hassle. Meanwhile Battle Helm is easy to craft and you can practically spam it for everyone. Imo. Battle Helm is absolutely top head armor in the game.

Yes, the Battle Helm is real cheap and better than the Football Helmet. However, the Football Helmet is also real cheap and you can craft it without needing to be a character that can only eat meat.

17 minutes ago, FTR said:

If I would ever have to choose a teammate wolfgang or wigfrid, I wouldn't even think a second. I played solo dst playthrough as Wolfgang (killed all giants solo etc.) so I definately know how good he can be in certain situations (killing Deerclops melee under 30 seconds ftw.), but he comes nowhere near close to Wigfrid overall usefulness. Wolfgang's damage it's unnecessary overkill most of the time in exchange for annoying downside.

Well, then you chose a teammate that you can't easily heal and maintain sanity with cheap common food, suit yourself.

17 minutes ago, FTR said:

People that think Wolfgang is better than Wigfrid need to look at things from wider perspective, this game is not only about killing giants.

And this game is not just about eating meatballs.

17 minutes ago, FTR said:

Maybe this will be controversial but this is my opinion of most to least useful characters:

Wigfrid                > Wickerbottom > Webber > Woodie (<3) > Wendy > Wolfgang > WX-78 > Wilson > Willow > Wes

> Wigfrid at the top

> WX-78 at the bottom

Clearly you don't know the supreme triumvirate that is Wickerbottom, Wolfgang, and WX78. I already explained why these three characters are the best combination in previous post of mine.

17 minutes ago, FTR said:

I didn't include Maxwell because I don't have much experience with him, but I think I would place him somewhere between Webber and Wolfgang. Webber requires some skill to play but when he is played right he can really provide insane amounts of quick silk and monster in no time, even quicker than Wendy.

Wolfgang can one-shot Spiders.

17 minutes ago, FTR said:

Wigfrid is far above all other characters.

Is it because she can only eat meat?

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HomShaBom    65

Why are so-called "endgame players" talking about Wigfrid not being able to eat health/sanity restoring food?

First of all, an "endgame player" should know that Wigfrid has no need to eat to restore health and sanity. She gets both just by playing the game and killing things.

Fishsticks and Perogis are 2 very simple, cheap, and sustainable recipes that Wigfrid can eat for 40 HP. The only foods in DST that provide more than 40 health are Jellybeans, Mandrake Soup, and Waffles. Jellybeans are made with a boss drop, mandrakes are in very short supply, and butter is pretty rare. I can't even remember the last time I saw butter drop. So Fishsticks and Perogis, even though they don't heal as much, are much better options for healing since their ingredients are abundant and easily acquired.

The best sanity food, for every character, is Jerky, which Wigfrid can eat. Now before you try to counter that point with Ice Cream and Melonsicle, let me explain.

Melonsicle is only 5 sanity higher than Jerky (20 vs 15). Melonsicle has a spoil rate of 3 days so you have to make it when you need it. You can't just have a stack of it ready and waiting for you. It requires building farms, birdcage, bird trap, crockpot, mining ice, and an ice box to stop your ice from melting, and optionally manure to speed up melon production, and it takes away from the amount of dragon fruit you can grow. Jerky requires only a drying rack and lasts 20 days (40 in an icebox) so you can always have some ready for you whenever it's needed.

Ice Cream is 50 sanity, but it has the same spoilage problems that Melonsicles have. You can't premake it and eat it when you need it. It has to be made on demand. It requires a butter or milk. I've already mentioned how stupidly rare butter is, so milk is the most reliable way to make Ice Cream. Killing a Volt Goat for Milk will give you 3 Meat, which could be turned into 3 Jerky = 45 sanity. 1 milk = 50 sanity after combining it with ice and honey. And you can't even get the milk unless you charge the goat first, making it harder to kill in the process, which requires having a specific weapon to charge them or waiting for a rain storm and hoping that one gets struck by lightning. Jerky is still the better option.

You could make an argument for Melonsicle or Ice Cream being better than Jerky for Sanity, but I wouldn't. Jerky is much easier to get, you can always have some ready on hand when you need it, and it's only slightly less restorative to your sanity.

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AlbertDelRiver    256
4 minutes ago, HomShaBom said:

 

You could make an argument for Melonsicle or Ice Cream being better than Jerky for Sanity, but I wouldn't. Jerky is much easier to get, you can always have some ready on hand when you need it, and it's only slightly less restorative to your sanity.

I agree jerky is a food commodity easier to farm/produce but muh ice cream...

 raw

I mentioned at the earliest of this thread that the only reason is that I don't pick Wigfrid is because of my freaky fantasy to eat all the food items in the game... Hell, I would main Warly if they ported him properly in.

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TitanCat    503
7 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

Wolfgang can one-shot Spiders.

How do you one shot a spider? 

seriously asking because curious

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AlbertDelRiver    256
Just now, TitanCat said:

How do you one shot a spider? 

seriously asking because curious

Fresh hambat, hunger higher than 280, with dark sword the hunger needs to be higher than 250.

Also you can 1 hit frogs with hambat and darksword (makes taking care of frog rain an useful farming method).

 

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HomShaBom    65
1 minute ago, TitanCat said:

How do you one shot a spider? 

seriously asking because curious

Spiders have 100 health, and with a full belly wolfgang does 2x damage. So he only needs a weapon that deals 50 damage to 1 shot a spider.

A fresh ham bat will do the job, or a tentacle spike, or a dark sword, or a morning star

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TitanCat    503
1 minute ago, AlbertDelRiver said:

Fresh hambat, hunger higher than 280, with dark sword the hunger needs to be higher than 250.

Also you can 1 hit frogs with hambat and darksword (makes taking care of frog rain an useful farming method).

 

Then i thought Wifgrid is OP

Well sorry pals I changed my mind, Wolfgang is the OP one to me

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HomShaBom    65

There's more to the game than just 1 shotting enemies that are already trivial to kill anyway. Wigfrid 2 shots spiders. Here's how Wigfrid kills spiders from a t3 den:

  1. Step on web to release 3 spiders
  2. Run off of web to prevent Spider Warriors from spawning
  3. Attack Spider A once and run back to dodge Spider B & Spider C's attacks
  4. Run back in to kill Spider A, then Spider B, then Spider C just in time before it gets a chance to attack again

And here's how Wolf gang would do it:

  1. Step on web to release 3 spiders
  2. Run off web to prevent Spider Warriors
  3. Attack Spider A and run away to dodge Spider B & Spider C's attacks
  4. Run back in to kill Spider B, then Spider C

The process is exactly the same, it's just 3 attack animations faster.

 

Or, an even faster way that every character can do to 0-shot spiders, drop down 3 Traps in a line. step on the web to draw out 3 spiders and train them into the traps.

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FTR    285
41 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

You're also forgetting that Wolfgang can also use the Bundling Wrap and he can take more advantage of it as he deals more damage with the Ham Bat and he eat way more types of food.

It was stated earlier that there are only two foods that are really worth eating that Wigfrid cannot eat. The best most powerful foods all contain meats. Bundling Wrap is discussion for another time, as this item in current state is overpowered so I personally don't take it into account in any discussions, yet.

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Her health and sanity regeneration is so small it does not make up for how she can't eat health and sanity restoration food. Wolfgang ends fights faster and with more health, and he can also eat more health restoration food.

She restores her sanity and health by fighting, which makes her one of the easiest characters to restore health and sanity with. I don't see correlation between "fights end faster with more heath so he can > eat more health restoration food" ? Not sure what you meant here.

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Ah, so it is possible to dodge the swipe without a speed boost, however you can't seem to get a hit in.

Not sure about others but I often switch between weapon and cane while kiting things and/or fight on road for additional speed.

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Also, I'm pretty sure they genuinely think Wigfrid is better, they don't seem to be trolling.

I really thought, based posts here that people that claimed Wolfgang is better were trolling. :D To me gap of usefulness between those two characters is huge, there is no even a competition.

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This absolutely isn't how Wolfgang is played. I could easily maintain Mighty mode from Day 2 and the speed boost also helps you run around the edges of the map faster in the early days. It's not that hard to punch butterflies and pick berries, you know. If you have food and have a good stock, there's no reason not to eat them. I have never gone Wimpy while playing Wolfgang, there's almost no reason to do so.

Are you talking about solo or multiplayer right now? It's not always wise to rely on blind chance of finding food while you have competition in form of other players looting everything as well.

You are going to willignly waste food because "there is no reason not to", which means you put time and effort into getting food you then wasted because of unnecessary need of staying in non-whimpy form when doing non-combat activities? That doesn't make much sense.

Wolfgang does not need his mighty form to kill things, and he pays the price regardless because in normal form he has no damage bonus but still consumes more food.

Quote

Yes, the Battle Helm is real cheap and better than the Football Helmet. However, the Football Helmet is also real cheap and you can craft it without needing to be a character that can only eat meat.

I said Battle Helm is better. You agreed and then said you may as well craft the more expensive and worse helmet. I don't really see what you tried to say here because you didn't present any logical argument, you just responded for the sake of responding.

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Well, then you chose a teammate that you can't easily heal and maintain sanity with cheap common food, suit yourself.

I choose teammate which provides tons of cheap, amazing weapons and armors, maintains his sanity and health perfectly fine without need of any foods or healing items and still contributes to even more damage than any other character except Wolfgang. How can you even say Wigfrid can't easily heal? That's literally the only character with self-healing perk AND character that takes less damage than any other.

Quote

> Wigfrid at the top

> WX-78 at the bottom

Clearly you don't know the supreme triumvirate that is Wickerbottom, Wolfgang, and WX78. I already explained why these three characters are the best combination in previous post of mine.

I know how good is Wickerbottom and I still think Wigfrid is even better. Maybe because Wigfrid is the most overpowered character in DST? Despite all Librarian awesomness it's still outclassed by Wigfrid, her perks and usefulness. WX-78 provides nothing to his team apart from being able to process spoiled food which is not a problem if you know how to manage your food and/or have teammates.

Quote

Wolfgang can one-shot Spiders.

Irrelevant because spiders are easily kited so you don't have to take any damage regardless and you are not in any danger. Other characters can two shot them with tentacle spike, Wigfrid can two shot them (day1), both of those without need to consume absurd amounts of food. There are characters that don't even have to fight spiders to kill them.

This is classic example of Wolfgang -damage overkill. One shot spider, cool, but why would I want that? Doesn't change anything.

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Czeraphine    139
37 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

Her health and sanity regeneration is so small it does not make up for how she can't eat health and sanity restoration food. Wolfgang ends fights faster and with more health, and he can also eat more health restoration food.

You're also forgetting that Wolfgang can also use the Bundling Wrap and he can take more advantage of it as he deals more damage with the Ham Bat and he eat way more types of food.

1

Her health and sanity regeneration isn't really that small. In fact, it's actually way more significant than it should be. Though, if you're comparing it to eating 5 blue mushrooms, and 5 cooked green cap, then it isn't as significant a boost as that. Being able to roam around like that isn't much of a problem though. Due to her ability to gain sanity upon murder, nightmares aren't really an issue. Let it be known that Wigfrid should always be played insane.

Her health gain is highly significant since, if kiting is allowed, you won't be hit very often. And, the few times you are hit doesn't matter so much as she lets you regain your health back easily.

Also, I'm not forgetting that Wolfgang can also use the Bundling Wrap. That is why I mentioned that all other characters can use it, and therefore the point I made was moot. All character's hunger problems are solved using it.

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TitanCat    503

Here is my short analysis on special team perk

Wilson: Provide easy source beard hair

Willow: Starting and Fighting fire, also bernie

Wolfgang: Strong fighter

Wendy: Abigail is a strong fighter, night activity

WX 78: Eats spoiled food, tanky stats makes a decent fighter

Wickerbottom: Crafts very useful books

Maxwell: Manual labor and ganking using codex umbra

Woodie: Manual labor as werebeaver, Strong fighter as werebeaver

Wigfrid: Strong fighter, makes quality gear and weapon

Webber: Access to armies of spider, also provide silk

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