Wigfrid is considered OP? Why..!?

[KoreanWaffles]

2 minutes ago, PillsStealer said:

Boy, why won't this thread die...

 

How about this, we ban every character except Wes.

There, now everyone will be equal and the same no matter what. 

FTFY

[SuperPsiPower]

Can this thread die already lol

[Begeesy]

I know I'm going to be the only one on this one, but if you IGNORE the thread would die on its own, not any part of you have to be here. After all, thats how I was treating the people who bring nothing to the argument by ignoring them until now. If anything you're keeping it alive.

no force is needed since no one has said nothing bad yet.

[mochilo]

[FTR]

21 hours ago, Begeesy said:

Or is it that it proves your point so it's valid? Do I really have sit down and explain to y'all like retarded children that it's invalid?s/o to all that got the reference. You set up an experiment to see how an independent variable manipulate the dependent one. If there are confounding variables or other variables controlling the dependent, we aren't really getting the true answer and we don't know how far off from the true answer we are, putting us back at square 1. There's a reason we, pro-wolfgang-ers didn't experiment ourselves because how hard it would be to take out the confounding variables.

It's valid because it's valid? I don't understand, if you disagree you are welcome to provide arguments and your way of thought.
I really don't see any variables you talking about. The experiment was mainly to show my points (more than Wigfrid & Wolfgang comparison) which most Wolfgang fans don't get it or refuse to acknowledge, which are:
- Combat activities in dst actually take tiny percentage of your time
- Wolfgangs actual speed is does not make that big difference either, because you are never actually sitting at 25% speed bonus, it's always less. You also waste lots of time to do other activities like picking carrots, berries, eating food, cooking additional food to make up for hunger/sanity loss, which completly negates any time you would gain from your double damage modifier and bonus speed

Those two things will be proved regardles of maximum and minimum possible variables in such test (which is just distance between tracks which is always similar), the differences are just not big enough. There is reason why I kept it simple, no berry or carrot picking, no butterfly hunting (all of which would work against Wolfgang total performance). Wolfgang actually gains more efficiency from his speed bonus than his damage multiplier.

 

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Of course it's never actually 1.25 but his hunger is also actually never 3x but oh wait, that helps your argument. At this point you're just giving me more prove that your statistics is incredible. You literally pulled 10-15% out your a** since at your LOWEST(not average) speed was 19.33% at your lowest hunger 283 shown in the video (2nd trial, 1st run with Wolfgang). And don't think I'm crediting your video because I used the your food distribution when Wolfgang.

My lowest was actually 17% but screw details. In normal gameplay your average speed is surely way lower than in 1 minute sterile enviornment test.

 

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What is it, does an ideal wigfrid cultivate berries/ other nonmeat food or not?

Of course she does, but she needs less of it therefore needs less time to do it or has more to share with other members of the team so they have more time to do other things. Alternatively you can just rely solely on meat, that totally works.

 

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You are implying in early game that carrots and berries is a worse food source than meat(it actually should be "you don't have to kill animals for meat as Wolfgang because carrots and berries")  but the fact that she spawns with meat and without it she would be 10 times harder in early game begs to differ.Take BluesyBuesy's lastest video for example, he easily gained enough mushrooms, carrots and berries to feed though out preparation and fighting without eating any meat EVEN IN WINTER. If having problems in winter, gang can easily switch to meat, that's the perk of having options.

She would be harder but not by much. Considering Wigfrids op lifesteal, even noming cooked monster meat is totally viable, because you will heal your health/sanity right away. SuperPsiPower actually had good point. Althrough it's obviously better to combine raw products to get better food value. About that video..

- fresh world with lots of freshly spawned resources

- winter had zero impact in this case because it's fresh world and winter is all about limiting resources renewability

- only one player, there is huge difference between resources availability in world with just one player and few players

So this proves nothing. Overall meats are superior in dst and relying on berries/carrots/butterflies can only work so long. You will have to deal with frozen/withered plants sooner or later. So I would say Wigfrid has way more options because she is not actually effected by seasons and not forced to get food in such big amounts as Wolfgang.

 

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Bit extreme but punching a spider to death also saves at lot of resources too. The only example where you save weapons for bosses i can think of is a morning star for toadstool since it's always wet and you don't have to throw balloons for it to be effective. Also you're implying most bosses are hard, take how you can kill deerclops with an axe day 1. If any thing, a group of mobs can be a hassle as they can stunlock you if you mess up verus just one hit. I know everyone that ruins died to a group of Splumonkeys at least once.

Even basic spear is way better than punching and doesn't cost much resources, so that's actually great value. I didn't say you should save weapons only for bosses. In general it's better to keep expensive weapons with decent damage for monsters that can actually hit you back or drain your sanity. I belive this approach to conserving resoures is correct, but then again it may be biased because I am extreme hoarder. I am kind of person that's going to have 3 chests of pine cones and 4 chests of grass/twigs. I may even have full chest of pig skin and I will still use spear for spiders because I hate wasting resources.  THEY WILL RUN OUT EVENTUALLY ALRIGHT?

 

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Tl;dr

In most of my arguments, you use her sustainability as a free get-out-of jail card. Applying your logic, webber would be the best character. 'Oh, wigfrid has a 1.25 damage multiplier which makes you hunt kolafant faster (not even a speed boost like Wolfgang to shorten trip of hunting which has about 75% priority in determining the time) but webber doesn't even need to hunt; he can literally stay at base and make spider wars to survive.' This isn't obviously the case though, webber is FORCED to make spider wars to survive or he'll actually be harder to play, whereas wigfrid is FORCED to kill stuff every 2 days or she'll actually be harder to play. Wolfgang can take advantage of whatever comes to him from meat to nonmeat. Characters like Wolfgang have more leg space in play style, allowing them to advance faster.

Don't let it die but let it be presumed dead for 9 days then reply whereas I mostly reply the day after.

Well, the thing is, staying in base won't get you very far. Wigfrid can put her perks into good use at any situation, any place. Sustainability & Flexibility at its finest.

Wolfgang can advance faster, but he will eventually start lagging behind and first winter/summer is just nail to the coffin for him. And if you want to also build proper camp by yourself, he is definately not the fastest and most effective character.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

On 18/12/2016 at 6:58 PM, AlbertDelRiver said:

Lately I've been playing DST and searching on forums and everyone seems to think Wigfrid is over-powered. 

She carries the ability to create "cheap" armour, however it really isn't cheap considering it takes a non-renewable source being gold, also rocks but with moon rocks you can technically say it's renewable.   (proven wrong later on the thread)

She has a 1.25x damage multiplier which to some is alot but to me is barely anything compared to Wolfgang's Mighty 2x. dmg!

 

She has lower sanity and hunger stats than wilson, which begs the question of why people think she is op? She has 50 more max HP than normally, however her lower sanity and hunger forces her to be on the prowl.

Am I the only one here who thinks Wigfrid is balanced? Her vampiric ability is gimmicky if you ask me and she can't eat all type of culinary foods, which is why I never pick her and instead decide to be Wolfgang. 

 

I guess some argue she's a better Wilson in a sense of the 1.25x dmg and is equipped for exploration but she doesn't really excel in battle compared to Wolfgang.

I mean...She's an easy character to play as. After Wigfrid was released, I exclusively played as her. It ended up making me really awful at the game. Whenever I try playing other characters, I'm useless

I think it's because of her sanity. It just isn't a issue when you play as her. Oh and her health! It recovers when you fight. I've gotten so used to that, that now managing other character's health I find really difficult. 

But I agree, she's OP compared to other characters in the initial days, but after like Day 10, she's really crap compared to Wolfgang, Wickerbottom or robot.

[AlbertDelRiver]

29 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

I mean...She's an easy character to play as. After Wigfrid was released, I exclusively played as her. It ended up making me really awful at the game. Whenever I try playing other characters, I'm useless

I think it's because of her sanity. It just isn't a issue when you play as her. Oh and her health! It recovers when you fight. I've gotten so used to that, that now managing other character's I find really difficult. 

But I agree, she's OP compared to other characters in the initial days, but after like Day 10, she's really crap compared to Wolfgang, Wickerbottom or robot.

Finally a well thought reply that isn't from Beegezy or FTR with their continuous small detailed debates and rebuttals.

[FTR]

> well thought

> no arguments

^.-

[AlbertDelRiver]

10 minutes ago, FTR said:

> well thought

> no arguments

^.-

Can we move on already, how about instead of lurking in this already long over-due dead thread, you give me your opinion on the next one I made?

this isn't 4chan stop using implying/qutotation marks 

 

[Begeesy]

@FTR tl;dr

say we drop the topic to give your keyboard the 8 hours of sleep it needs and settle our differences in pvp like real men.

[FTR]

15 hours ago, Begeesy said:

@FTR tl;dr

say we drop the topic to give your keyboard the 8 hours of sleep it needs and settle our differences in pvp like real men.

Sure. I am more than willing to continue discussions but this one definately dried up, since my arguments are ignored or countered with something that doesn't make any sense whatsoever so we won't get anywhere with this. Everyone just repeating same things since page 4.

And no, I am not doing pvp in dst. Never did and never going to. Besides what would be point of this? It's not personal war or anything like that, we were discussing something we share common love for, so it would settle absolutely nothing. If you ever felt like I am attacking you personally at any point, you should know that was never my intention.

Some people get too involved emotionally when there is no reason for it.

[mochilo]

5 hours ago, FTR said:

Sure. I am more than willing to continue discussions but this one definately dried up

It dried up on the first page.

[Begeesy]

8 hours ago, FTR said:

And no, I am not doing pvp in dst. Never did and never going to. Besides what would be point of this? It's not personal war or anything like that, we were discussing something we share common love for, so it would settle absolutely nothing. If you ever felt like I am attacking you personally at any point, you should know that was never my intention.

Some people get too involved emotionally when there is no reason for it.

??? It was a joke

[Starlogy]

This is my first post, so you all should probably take this with a grain of salt, however I believe that how good a character is should be determined not only by their maximum potential, but also if it's easy to do it or not. And looking at Wolfgang and Wigfrid, I definitely see Wigfrid as the easier of the two. She doesn't need to rely on food to have her strength and damage resistance, and she can make unique armor and weapons.

Now I'm not saying that she's better than Wolfgang, because his 2x damage and 1.25 walkspeed at full hunger is amazing. And he can eat everything. But if it were me, I'd prefer Wigfrid simply because she's an easier character to manage.

Spoiler

but wes is better lol

 

[onedeagdrifter]

I don't think wigfrid is that good for ruins rushing is she?
I can't imagine clearing it out without blue shrooms.

[Rellimarual]

13 hours ago, onedeagdrifter said:

I don't think wigfrid is that good for ruins rushing is she?
I can't imagine clearing it out without blue shrooms.

She's great in the caves/ruins because every kill gives her a sanity boost. I've lived full time underground in a couple of runs by keeping some spider nests around and killing them every day. Totally restores your sanity.

[Destros09]

On 1/29/2017 at 11:50 PM, onedeagdrifter said:

I don't think wigfrid is that good for ruins rushing is she?
I can't imagine clearing it out without blue shrooms.

The problem with wigfred ruins rushing is simple

 

 

bunnymen on the way

[Rellimarual]

Bunnymen are what I live on down there. Couldn't survive without them, but I'm not really rushing the ruins. Still, Wig likes nothing better than a stack of steaks, and bunny villages are a great way to get that, the only way to get it underground.

[KoreanWaffles]

On 1/29/2017 at 10:50 PM, onedeagdrifter said:

I don't think wigfrid is that good for ruins rushing is she?
I can't imagine clearing it out without blue shrooms.

I would say Wigfrid is an exceptional character for ruins rushing, almost on par with WX78.

You only need a lantern, and basic materials for spears, helms, and campfires which you could get as early as day 4 (even day 2 if you're speedy). Make sure to get some living logs if you plan to craft staves. It's also recommended that you bring some food (I usually kill spiders and bring cooked monster meat) but it isn't necessary as you could always find Bunnymen.

While your exploring the ruins, you can easily maintain your health by slaying shadows as long as you know basic kiting skills. I restock on food by slaying Depth Worms (They drop 4 monster meat per worm!). The health you gain from fighting the Depth Worms will counteract the health cost of eating monster meat, assuming you cook it that is. You don't have to worry about sanity as Wigfrid, as slaying a single Terrorbeak will put you well over the sanity threshold. (Besides, more shadows = more nightmare fuel!) You can also easily face-tank the Damaged Bishops by the Ancient Pseudoscience Station pretty easily as long as you have a reasonable amount of health (I'd stick to ~100 to be safe) and two battle helms. As long as you're careful and kite properly in the ruins, you should be able to come back in one piece.

Side-notes:
-You may opt to bring an Opulent Pickaxe to save on twigs (While you're at it, you could prototype a Luxury Axe and craft a Pick/Axe in the ruins)
-If you decide to kill spiders on the surface for monster meat as your food source, chances are you got some silk drops which you can use to craft fishing rods. These are pretty useful in the ruins because ponds in the ruins yield eels which heal 8 health a piece (Fishing is a nice way to wait out the nightmare cycle)
-You can cheese kill the Ancient Guardian for a boost in health and sanity (alongside whatever goodies he may drop)
-I usually have a chest pre-built so that I may place it by the Ancient Pseudoscience Station to store any unused gems and thulecite
-It if decide to smash the clockworks in the ruins, don't hesitate to grab those frazzled wires. It's pretty easy to get 20+ or even a full stack of frazzled wires. At five gold a piece, trading to the Pig King could net you between ~100-200 gold nuggets! (just be careful, for where there are clockworks, there are damaged bishops)

[Rellimarual]

How do you cheese the Guardian? Get him stuck between two obstacles?

[56933043043]

34 minutes ago, Rellimarual said:

How do you cheese the Guardian? Get him stuck between two obstacles?

 You can also drop 40 killer bees on it and beat it up while they fight it

Seriously though, killer bees are pretty good at it. I remember they used to be able to beat the guardian by themselves, but after the range nerf, they need additional support from a player to get the kill.

 

[mochilo]

Wigfrid is not considered OP. Why do you ask @AlbertDelRiver?

[mochilo]

2 hours ago, Rellimarual said:

How do you cheese the Guardian? Get him stuck between two obstacles?

Between a tomb and the end of the ground. I can add a screenshot if that helps.

[Begeesy]

4 hours ago, KoreanWaffles said:

I would say Wigfrid is an exceptional character for ruins rushing, almost on par with WX78.

You only need a lantern, and basic materials for spears, helms, and campfires which you could get as early as day 4 (even day 2 if you're speedy). Make sure to get some living logs if you plan to craft staves. It's also recommended that you bring some food (I usually kill spiders and bring cooked monster meat) but it isn't necessary as you could always find Bunnymen.

While your exploring the ruins, you can easily maintain your health by slaying shadows as long as you know basic kiting skills. I restock on food by slaying Depth Worms (They drop 4 monster meat per worm!). The health you gain from fighting the Depth Worms will counteract the health cost of eating monster meat, assuming you cook it that is. You don't have to worry about sanity as Wigfrid, as slaying a single Terrorbeak will put you well over the sanity threshold. (Besides, more shadows = more nightmare fuel!) You can also easily face-tank the Damaged Bishops by the Ancient Pseudoscience Station pretty easily as long as you have a reasonable amount of health (I'd stick to ~100 to be safe) and two battle helms. As long as you're careful and kite properly in the ruins, you should be able to come back in one piece.

Side-notes:
-You may opt to bring an Opulent Pickaxe to save on twigs (While you're at it, you could prototype a Luxury Axe and craft a Pick/Axe in the ruins)
-If you decide to kill spiders on the surface for monster meat as your food source, chances are you got some silk drops which you can use to craft fishing rods. These are pretty useful in the ruins because ponds in the ruins yield eels which heal 8 health a piece (Fishing is a nice way to wait out the nightmare cycle)
-You can cheese kill the Ancient Guardian for a boost in health and sanity (alongside whatever goodies he may drop)
-I usually have a chest pre-built so that I may place it by the Ancient Pseudoscience Station to store any unused gems and thulecite
-It if decide to smash the clockworks in the ruins, don't hesitate to grab those frazzled wires. It's pretty easy to get 20+ or even a full stack of frazzled wires. At five gold a piece, trading to the Pig King could net you between ~100-200 gold nuggets! (just be careful, for where there are clockworks, there are damaged bishops)

Ill rather go as woodie 

[AlbertDelRiver]

12 hours ago, mochilo said:

Wigfrid is not considered OP. Why do you ask @AlbertDelRiver?

Wigfrid has 25% passive armour, extremely renewable cheap armor and too easy to play as, best starting early game inventory.

I used to think she isn't OP when I started this thread, but by the end of it she clearly is over-powered.

I used to think Wolfgang's 25% speed boost wasn't linear, disappointing to find out it actually has to deal with hunger, most of the time you're 10-15% faster which is a minuscule difference to other characters, not to mention even his health decreases if it's below 300 hunger when Mighty which even makes taking track of his health and calculating the damage of being hit by a mob even harder. Then there's his most important perk, the 2x Damage, which only comes into play at less than 2 seconds, because you're dealing 1.25x - 1.99x damage otherwise.

My solution is to remove this linear dreadful change in mighty form, and instead make him starve from 3x, to 4x hunger while making his health 300 constant HP and his damage multiplier constant 2x, also his 25% speed, until he reaches 101 hunger in which he changes from mighty to normal, from normal to wimpy. Even make his sanity modifier from 1.1x to 2x considering he has constant 2x damage.

A lot of people are going to argue with me that the linear perk is a skill, feeding and keeping him at 299-300 hunger is a skill, but if you ask me, it's clearly bad character design considering Wolfgang allegedly is supposed to be a combat character, not a stuff-a-ton to unlock his abilities, which even then decrease in his buffed state.

My solution isn't to make him much more significantly stronger, it's to make him a much more reliable combat character, because that's his character design.

This makes me now realize why Wolfgang is one the most under-played characters in the game.

Nerfing her isn't the way to go at all, it would take what makes her unique as a character, instead other characters should be buffed/reworked in order to compete with her character design.

Why is this thread still going? Let it die.