Wigfrid is considered OP? Why..!?

[GuyNamedChris]

Uh...tl;dr?

[Begeesy]

4 hours ago, FTR said:

You don't have to to "take a trip to kill mobs". As I said before, you heal all the time so you will end all fights with more health than other characters, ESPECIALLY when you kite.

I take this as "when fighting mobs you get more hp more than you lose, mobs being a main source of damage"

when low on hp (which everyone does otherwise you never died in don't starve) you may have to take trips to clustered mobs like the example shown in your video.

4 hours ago, FTR said:

Besides, you compare wrong things because you don't have to actively seek fight to heal as Wigfrid, you heal ALL the time when fighting, even when hurt a little bit you immediately restore this health, Wolfgang also fights and potentially loses health while fighting PLUS he has to go and pick up cactus, losing his armor durability.

4 hours ago, FTR said:

Wigfrid rarely goes low on health/sanity, you know why? Because she always heals herself when fighting things. It's infinitely better than relying on mushrooms/cacti and other healing things.

Lifesteal is comparable to how you get healing items when killing animals with any character but you can't store lifesteal when your full on stats (for the animals that don't, hunger is easily translated into health/sanity via tent). For example, a spider gives you a 25% gland for 8 hp or 20 with salves, 25% silk that could be use for top hat or creating tents, or 50% monstermeat hunger that could be translated into hp. I could just kill spiders 2 times faster (2 hits divided by 1 hit ignoring his 1.25 speed) as wolfgang and get more than lifesteal and not have to suffer from not being able to take advantage of mushrooms, cacti or any other nonmeat food. Its basically the argument "1 extra spider loot is better than 4 hp and sanity" since 1x loot cancel out.

4 hours ago, FTR said:

Well as I showed in my video, I only lost 12% durability while healing myself from 1 to full hp/sanity, and that's only because I screwed badly 2-3 times. So yes, you do lose more durability by collecting cactus and this cannot be prevented.

getting hit is inevitable for any player so it's not far away from unpreventable. If it was soo preventable wigfrid's built-in armor and easy helms wouldn't even matter which is majority of what she brings to the table, so don't try that argument bud. Anyways, you get 135 sanity (15 extra to negate dusk in the video) at the cost of 43.2 damage to your helmet which is less than half of 90ish damage your helmet took.  So even with a football helmet, cacti would've lost less durability.

[CarlZalph]

1 hour ago, Chris1488 said:

Uh...tl;dr?

Summed up the main points below, mostly by paragraph:

4 hours ago, FTR said:

Wolfgang is bad because he has a constant food drain and also sucks as a base builder because he's constantly eating food.

 

Food isn't an issue, and should only be considered in efficiency terms.

 

Wolfgang being able to kill things quicker doesn't even compare to the +hp/+sanity you get when smacking things as Wigfrid.

 

Direct quote: "Ditching backpack is the worst decision you can make, but perhaps if you are playing Wolfgang you are used to being inefficient burden anyway so I understand where such thought comes from."

 

Everything Wigfrid brings to the table can't be replaced by items and a base.

 

I don't see why one would use body armour and have a boss drop head item over a head armour and a backpack.

 

Wickerbottom is a late-game character and only shines then.

Wolfgang is for bosses but not for regular playing.

WX-78 is not useful no matter how many gear levels.

Dragonpie takes too long to get so I use Bacon and Eggs instead.

 

Direct quote: "I am extreme hoarder, I want gather as much as I can at any situation, and then spend hour sorting my 20 chests..  Instead of going to mine rocks, you can go mine rocks, kill Walrus on the way, then maybe gather some more other stuff. Basically trips are long, so it's better to do few things on one trip than having to go to camp all the time because you are full. And not full because you are not good at 'managing inventory' but full because you just gathered as much useful stuff as you can."

 

Wigfrid is better because you don't need to waste armour durability on cactus.

Wolfgang isn't as efficient compared to others, sure.

This seems to be a crux of your argument and everything else is revolving around it: efficiency.

It shouldn't matter how efficient you are so long as the net gain is better so you're always bringing in profit.

 

Also backpack ditching lets you use boss drop items which are pretty good, such as the eyebrella, and if caverns are enabled then the belt of hunger if you really don't want to worry about food.

[AlbertDelRiver]

Quote

 

> Starts thread asking why people think Wigfrid is better than other characters

> Compares Wigfrid to Wolfgang

> Starts comparing Wigfrid to other characters as well

> Wonders why people compare Wigfrid to other characters

You started comparing Wigfrid to Wolfgang in the very first post, and now you acccuse me for comparing those two.

That's some next level hypocrisy.

 

It's already way too good. Wigfrid's lifesteal should be removed completly, so then her meat-only diet downside would actually matter.

How am I a hypocrite? I had admitted that Wigfrid is more flexible than Wolfgang and that they shouldn't be compared, as I was agreeing with @CaptainChaotica and @GiddyGuy

I thought Wigfrid was literal trash before this post, but my way of thinking of towards her has completely flipped.

 

The fact you kept comparing Wolfgang and Wigfrid character and ability after I posted that goes to show you don't ever let anyone have peace.

 

 

 

 

[bubben16]

Is this post seriously still going? Come on guys,  you've been arguing since last year! 

Yeah i know dumb joke everyone has used haha...

But seriously, why continue this pointless argument. You can argue how much you want, but in the end, Wigfrid does her thing and Wolfgang does his thing. They both offer fun playstyles. Just play the one you feel is better. Im sure that you could have done something else with the time you have taken to write all these posts.

(Sorry if i sound rude or anything maybe but im pretty sure everyone is getting tired of this whole WIGFRID VS WOLFGANG thing)

[hkhm]

every time wickerbottom is brought up in this thread i laugh because every time i play with other people i get one of two things:

"wickerbottom sucks late game so could you just get a shovel and dig up all the saplings/grass/berry bushes for us and make an alchemy engine and then leave so we can have a useful character join?"

or

"wickerbottom is only good in the late game so could you please leave and rejoin later on so we can have a useful character join?"

and here everyone is arguing about who is better, wigfrid or wolfgang when i need to know: is wickerbottom only useful in the early game or late game because i can't for the life of me figure it out after 931 hours playing her in dst.

(i'll just go back to lurking now.)

[JohnWatson]

18 hours ago, hkhm said:

every time wickerbottom is brought up in this thread i laugh because every time i play with other people i get one of two things:

"wickerbottom sucks late game so could you just get a shovel and dig up all the saplings/grass/berry bushes for us and make an alchemy engine and then leave so we can have a useful character join?"

or

"wickerbottom is only good in the late game so could you please leave and rejoin later on so we can have a useful character join?"

and here everyone is arguing about who is better, wigfrid or wolfgang when i need to know: is wickerbottom only useful in the early game or late game because i can't for the life of me figure it out after 931 hours playing her in dst.

(i'll just go back to lurking now.)

Wickerbottom is one of the best characters, if not the best. She has essentially no downside, she has a huge head-start early-game, and she is godlike for late-game survival with her books.

[Sunsoft]

Ugh, why people keep saying that Woodie needs a buff? His dst variant is absolutely fine unlike ds, where he is overpowered as hell. The fact that beaver mode is weak, it is intentional.

Beaver mode is mainly meant only for gnawing trees and geting WOOD, not attacking.

If he gets buffed, it should be only his beaver form damage protection.

[Arlesienne]

On 12/29/2016 at 5:43 PM, AlbertDelRiver said:

Late game, Willow can help kill dragonfly.

Late game, Wes has world dominance.

After eleven pages, we got the winners. Thank you for your time, everyone, now don't let me detain you further !

[superfast]

On 12/30/2016 at 5:39 PM, AlbertDelRiver said:

would you care to elaborate what are these "silly" and "misleading" things that either i've talked about

 

A little late to reply, I haven't checked here being busy with holidays etc. I won't put all silly things here because nobody likes long posts and quotes are messy. This is just four things from one comment I saw:

On 12/29/2016 at 4:43 PM, AlbertDelRiver said:

It's very funny that Wolfgang doesn't have to hunt late game, isn't it? He can now explore with friends and kill any monsters in their way.

There is no exploring to be done in the late game. Your exploring should have been an awfully long time ago.

On 12/29/2016 at 4:43 PM, AlbertDelRiver said:

Late game, Wilson clutters base with Meat Effigies, which never go obsolete considering they're portable touchstones, and removes the need to drop to a low sanity to kill bunny-men in the caves.

 

Amulets are preferable to effigies and easy to acquire. Also, gathering beard hair from beard lords is a bad way to go about getting beard hairs.

On 12/29/2016 at 4:43 PM, AlbertDelRiver said:

Late game, Willow can help kill dragonfly.

 

I think this is obviously silly without any explanation needed.

On 12/29/2016 at 4:43 PM, AlbertDelRiver said:

Late game, Wendy can explore ruins and caves with little sanity issue.

 

Also quite obvious. Wendy's lower sanity drain is actually an advantage in the early game. By late game, tams are available for all and her sanity advantage becomes irrelevant.

 

Anyway, I get that you really like Wolfgang and think he is great. He is great. But your reasons might be a bit confused. I recommend you gain some more experience, perhaps try to understand more about the game and understand more about the other characters available and how they relate to each other. Players who choose only one character will inevitably have limited knowledge and experience.

[hkhm]

On 12/31/2016 at 7:39 PM, JohnWatson said:

Wickerbottom is one of the best characters, if not the best. She has essentially no downside, she has a huge head-start early-game, and she is godlike for late-game survival with her books.

oh i totally agree.

it is just that when i play her, no matter when i join the server, i keep getting told by the other players to play a useful character... like wigfrid or wolfgang.

so this whole this thread has had me laughing about who is better... wigfrid or wolfgang... when the answer is so obviously wickerbottom.

(or wes, as i play him too.)

[AlbertDelRiver]

15 minutes ago, superfast said:

Anyway, I get that you really like Wolfgang and think he is great. He is great. But your reasons might be a bit confused. I recommend you gain some more experience, perhaps try to understand more about the game and understand more about the other characters available and how they relate to each other. Players who choose only one character will inevitably have limited knowledge and experience.

 

Don't patronize me, I know fully well what I have said or explained.

I have tried other characters, but they're too relaxing or not tense enough.

Except Wes, he is bes.

I have tried Wilson or Wigfrid, but they are too relaxing and/or don't feel as if I'm contributing to anything except when being Wolfgang.

There's a reason why almost no one plays Wolfgang, he requires a high skill cap, the fact you tell me to "gain more experience" sounds as if it's coming from a troll or someone who doesn't fully understand the game.

The constant hunger drain and Wolfgang's wimpy form is difficult to manage, which makes him one of the most hardest characters to play, not just his hunger but how much resources he consumes. 

Wes is the hardest character though, without any debate.

 

 

 

 

 

[mochilo]

Because she is a viking.

[JohnWatson]

@AlbertDelRiver superfast isn't even arguing against Wolfgang. He's just saying that we shouldn't be only playing one character because that limits  how much we learn.

Personally, I don't have a "main" character. So, I kind of agree with him. I'm just staying on this thread because there are guys like FTR calling Wolfgang absolute useless, when he's one of the greatest characters. 

[AlbertDelRiver]

8 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

@AlbertDelRiver superfast isn't even arguing against Wolfgang. He's just saying that we shouldn't be only playing one character because that limits  how much we learn.

Personally, I don't have a "main" character. So, I kind of agree with him. I'm just staying on this thread because there are guys like FTR calling Wolfgang absolute useless, when he's one of the greatest characters. 

It's not so much the fact @superfast is arguing against Wolfgang but the fact he had the heed to call me "inexperienced", personally I have tried other characters but they don't feel exciting enough or potent enough compared to Wolfgang.

Wolfgang suits me an aggressive play-style, you could say.

[GuyNamedChris]

 

[TheKingDedede]

[Begeesy]

Quote

especially Wigfrid that has amazing self-sustain.

As explained earlier, if your looking for sustainability webber wins by a long shot.

On 12/29/2016 at 5:40 PM, FTR said:

She is stronger early game than any other character late game, maybe with exception of Wickerbottom, but definately not Wolfgang. A bit more speed and damage does not make Wolfgang better character in late game.

Don't get the idea of a player needs this to be better than wigfrid, this is just an example that shows that any character can do what wigfrid does better.

Any character equipped with a bat bat (late game you can farm bats with bunnymen), any armor that provides 90% protection and your choice of nonmeat farm-able sanity. You can effectively farm hp better by leeching chester's regenerating health with batbat's 6.8 hp per hit. This is no doubt better than lifesteal, doing at most 2hp per hit even with 4/3 health efficiency. 90% protection is 50% more health efficient than built-in armor with gold helm, sporting 85% protection.

the fact that no late gamers do this but thrive in other ways shows that wigfrid's play style is not the way.

 

[superfast]

13 hours ago, AlbertDelRiver said:

It's not so much the fact @superfast is arguing against Wolfgang but the fact he had the heed to call me "inexperienced"

The reason I think you are inexperienced is because your comments display limited knowledge of the game. Inexperience would explain the many incorrect and misleading statements about the game.

[AlbertDelRiver]

58 minutes ago, superfast said:

The reason I think you are inexperienced is because your comments display limited knowledge of the game. Inexperience would explain the many incorrect and misleading statements about the game.

13 hours ago, Chris1488 said:

 

That awkward moment when I realized Smash Smouth had ripped this artist/band off.

 

13 hours ago, TheKingDedede said:

The pain never ends...

 

[superfast]

41 minutes ago, AlbertDelRiver said:

 

I'm not trying to troll you. You asked me to point out some comments that were silly and incorrect. So I did.  I suspected you are inexperienced and suggested you gain more experience to prevent more incorrect information being spread. It is lazy to call me a troll because you dislike my reply.

[artemiyME]

tl;dr

I have not read whole thing but was True Madness' notorious Wigfrid "Do Starve" challange ever mentioned? The one where he survived what 45+ days without EATING at all as wig? That's one OP point to Wig

Also was the "Wigfrid vs Old Bell" ever mentioned? that's second OP point to Wigfrid.

Also think of PVP, but I probably shouldn't go in that direction...

[Begeesy]

Hello Art, Im a regular user of your servers and discord, Im glad you can join us.

19 hours ago, artemiyME said:

I have not read whole thing but was True Madness' notorious Wigfrid "Do Starve" challange ever mentioned? The one where he survived what 45+ days without EATING at all as wig? That's one OP point to Wig

I haven't had any first/second hand experience with this but I feel like this is because most healing is nonmeat food which wigfrid can't eat in the first place therefore she suffers less than other players if you take away all foods.

19 hours ago, artemiyME said:

Also was the "Wigfrid vs Old Bell" ever mentioned? that's second OP point to Wigfrid.

This is not OP because SHE CAN ONLY EAT MEAT! This is a superficial point which is similar to FTR's point that she can kill deerclops by tanking with her intial gear. We already know that wigfrid have a great initial but is that all she offers? 

 

19 hours ago, artemiyME said:

Also think of PVP, but I probably shouldn't go in that direction...

Finally someone talking in familiar territory, if PVP was took in consideration the argument would've been over a long time ago. She's only good for spawn camping in pvp as a gang can dig up blue caps, hammer pig and bunny houses for unlimited supply of food, healing, and armor.

[HamBatter]

32 minutes ago, Begeesy said:

I haven't had any first/second hand experience with this but I feel like this is because most healing is nonmeat food which wigfrid can't eat in the first place therefore she suffers less than other players if you take away all foods.

You should try playing her. You don't need to use healing food (but can still use healing items) as your HP will usually stay over 3/4 full as long as you keep that helmet on and play within her generous limits.

It may be an inconvenience to go out of your way to get meat (which is why asap Crock Pot is often recommended, though not actually necessary) but you can always eat raw Meat or cooked Monster Meat you find along with way without caring about her low-maintenance sanity.

[Begeesy]

50 minutes ago, HamBatter said:

You should try playing her. You don't need to use healing food (but can still use healing items) as your HP will usually stay over 3/4 full as long as you keep that helmet on and play within her generous limits.

umm yeah, lifesteal is basically a compromise (that's not necessarily better than) for not eating nonmeat healing so if you take one away, the other one would obviously be better(taking out all foods takes out nonmeat healing in the challenge). My point is that challenge is shifted in wigfrid's favor much like 'everything lots' challenge for wolfgang. I feel like you was talking about without the challenge.

 

50 minutes ago, HamBatter said:

It may be an inconvenience to go out of your way to get meat (which is why asap Crock Pot is often recommended, though not actually necessary) but you can always eat raw Meat or cooked Monster Meat you find along with way without caring about her low-maintenance sanity.

If you're low on meat you're definitely lower on sanity since you can't store lifesteal (when your stats are full) but you can store hunger though meat.