V2C

[Game Update] - Herd Mentality (BETA 198138)

Recommended Posts

ShadyPK    250
57 minutes ago, CarlZalph said:

It'd be neat to make the dark heart act like a life-giving amulet that you don't need to haunt- it would instantly restore your health pool and break(squish?) when you would have normally died.

 

This is, of course, if Klei doesn't have an idea to do with it.

I personally suspect it will be used in summoning the skeletal creature you put together from the fossils.

I wonder of the Shadow Heart, Moonstone Gem, and other stuff might be all part of one huge recipe

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Auth    8,973
Just now, GiddyGuy said:

I think @PeterA would object to that...

And anyone who knows how to make meatballs, pierogies and froggle bunwichs.

I'll admit, when I'm not playing wigfrid my main diet mainly consists of red caps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lumina    2,132
3 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

Hounds and Giants are easier to deal with, and the Dragonfly and other new bosses are completely optional.

Hounds and Giants are easiers to deal with ? Why ? Usually i find them more dangerous than in classic DS, but i play with one or two friends. Maybe it's related to the number of players on the server ? And so, easier when you are close to max players ?

3 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

And there's nothing in the game to supplement that decrease in difficulty as if this latest patch, the new team is too busy making more cosmetics and adding what the original designers thought would ruin the theme of the game.

I don't agree at all.

My experience is totally different. The more objective you have, the greatest the risk.

Because when you are focusing on adding cute fence around your farm, you aren't preparing winter. You spend resource you could use for survival. You don't harvest food, twigs, grass, you don't get some useful stuff.

When you spend time finding the ending table, you aren't searching something more useful. When you are capturing bird for feather for sign, you spend resource you could use for things more useful.

Of course, usually, nothing extreme. People will still do the important things and spend free time for decoration. But decoration could distract people, make them become less prepared than usually, or without the resource they would usually have. Not enough to starve awfully but enough to ADD challenge and not remove it. Because decoration is useless, so any time devoted to decoration is a time not spending in something useful, meaning that you have globally an higher difficulty.

So decoration add challenge. And of course, decoration could encourage you to fight Dragonfly, Toadstool and others dangerous things, so it create new difficult situations.

 

Of course, not mandatory, but still.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FreyaMaluk    1,298
2 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Why would you be playing and cooperating with selfish players in the first place?

 

time zones.... plain and simple... BTW, have you played in random dedicated servers?? I bet you haven't.

2 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

I do actually know about bee boxes and if you look back at a post I made I actually mention the thing about them and also why I think bee hives being renewable should be a thing. Essentially they're a world aesthetics thing and a much more reliable source of initial bees than fricken tumbleweeds, but what would I know, I've only played 1800 hours of the game.

If you can get bees from your own beeboxes why should you even consider going on a hunt for tumbleweeds just for the bees?? This makes no sense to me... You can have 1800 in the game, but this is not a very clever way around that problem in particular.

Edited by FreyaMaluk
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sinister_Fang    7,192
3 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

Hounds and Giants are easier to deal with

That's just one of the pitfalls of not having a scaled difficulty based on player count. But then again, with tooth traps both hounds and giants are fairly easy to deal with in DS as well. Heck, just get a dark sword and a tam and you've pretty much beaten everything.

3 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

and the Dragonfly and other new bosses are completely optional.

The new bosses being optional is perfectly fine. I would have loved to see optional bosses in DS that were meant to test your skill in the game. After you've survived a year or two and raided the ruins there's not much to do other then complete the wooden thing and start (almost) all over again. The optional bosses at least gives you something to do. The dragonfly could have been kept as a seasonal giant, but at the least making her optional and giving her some gem drops made thulecite renewable. Eh, either way, I wouldn't mind. The point I'm making is that the bee queen, toadstool and shadow chess pieces being optional doesn't seem like a big deal.

3 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

And there's nothing in the game to supplement that decrease in difficulty as if this latest patch

Yeah, I can agree with that. Although the game simply becomes easier due to having too many players and the lack of a difficulty scaling mechanic. Giving enemies and bosses 2x or 3x health only works if you have 2 or 3 players in total. Any more then that and the balance is broken making fighting them a lot easier. Excluding combat(because I literally just talked about that), the general survival aspects are pretty much untouched. A new game mode that removes telltale hearts would be nice though. Revival is fairly easy in DST and that makes the game a lot easier. The booster shot could also be made more costly so that the health penalty of reviving with a heart actually matters.

3 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

the new team is too busy making more cosmetics

I personally don't see anything wrong with cosmetics. I'll admit that the current system is a tad clunky, but it's fine. It doesn't have any effect on actual gameplay. And it's not like the team is even putting 100% of their time into making them. If that was the case we would have a crazy amount of unique skins and little to no new content.

3 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

and adding what the original designers thought would ruin the theme of the game.

Elaborating a bit more on things that would "ruin the theme of the game" would be nice as well. That's kinda vague and difficult to actually discuss.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ShadyPK    250
29 minutes ago, Weirdobob said:

I think it'd be funny as all heck if all the useless items in the game were used in a big crafting recipe for something even more useless.

 

DST  accomploshrine = 1 glommer wing, 1 shadow atrium, 1 iridescent gem(i think thats how you spell it), 1 thick fur, 1 orange gem, 1 rot, 1 phlegm, 1 redcap - Together, they make a mess of an object that when interacted with makes your player do an animation that lasts one entire minute that cannot be escaped from no matter what circumstances. When used 100 times it gives you 20 billion thulecite so your game crashes. A perfect late game goal.

Watch as it makes the Deadly Feast for everyone to consume

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tainted-Petals    502
5 hours ago, Lumina said:

Hounds and Giants are easiers to deal with ? Why ? Usually i find them more dangerous than in classic DS, but i play with one or two friends. Maybe it's related to the number of players on the server ? And so, easier when you are close to max players ?

I don't agree at all.

My experience is totally different. The more objective you have, the greatest the risk.

Because when you are focusing on adding cute fence around your farm, you aren't preparing winter. You spend resource you could use for survival. You don't harvest food, twigs, grass, you don't get some useful stuff.

When you spend time finding the ending table, you aren't searching something more useful. When you are capturing bird for feather for sign, you spend resource you could use for things more useful.

Of course, usually, nothing extreme. People will still do the important things and spend free time for decoration. But decoration could distract people, make them become less prepared than usually, or without the resource they would usually have. Not enough to starve awfully but enough to ADD challenge and not remove it. Because decoration is useless, so any time devoted to decoration is a time not spending in something useful, meaning that you have globally an higher difficulty.

So decoration add challenge. And of course, decoration could encourage you to fight Dragonfly, Toadstool and others dangerous things, so it create new difficult situations.

 

Of course, not mandatory, but still.

But this is assuming people are going after decorations right away in a new world.  Or that everyone is looking for said decorations.  Whenever I start a new world, there are tasks designated, once a base is set up, and most things are prepared for harsher climates, then we go out searching for decorations.  

Really, it isn't a challenge at all if you know how to prepare yourself and have set tasks in mind.  

I want to add that the most I've ever played with on a server is one other person, so this isn't assuming I'm always playing with 6 or 8 people.  I either play alone or with 1 other person and still find it too easy (and yes, this is with settings rarely altered)

Edited by Tainted-Petals

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lumina    2,132
1 hour ago, Tainted-Petals said:

Really, it isn't a challenge at all if you know how to prepare yourself and have set tasks in mind.  


Yeah, if.

It's the key.

 

Not everyone knows how to prepare. Not everyone will like to prepare during a moment and wait until this point to do news and fun things. So decoration could make survival harder. Not everytime, not for everyone. But it exists.

In any case, decoration could make the game harder, but isn't making the game easier, so it's perfect. You have more purpose if you like it, it doesn't change anything if you don't. So why being against decoration ? You don't lose anything and it's more content for players, content that could make the game more challenging (yes, everyone doesn't know how to be perfectly prepared. Also, mixing survival and decoration is great to avoid being bored).

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tainted-Petals    502
Just now, Lumina said:


Yeah, if.

It's the key.

 

Not everyone knows how to prepare. Not everyone will like to prepare during a moment and wait until this point to do news and fun things. So decoration could make survival harder. Not everytime, not for everyone. But it exists.

In any case, decoration could make the game harder, but isn't making the game easier, so it's perfect. You have more purpose if you like it, it doesn't change anything if you don't. So why being against decoration ? You don't lose anything and it's more content for players, content that could make the game more challenging (yes, everyone doesn't know how to be perfectly prepared. Also, mixing survival and decoration is great to avoid being bored).

 

 

At what point did I say I was against decorations?  I didn't.  I quite enjoy them actually, I'm just stating that it doesn't add any challenge to the game.  That's all.  It's purely decoration, and that's fine.  All I personally want is just more lore, that is it.  The decorations are nice and all, but I am lore starved because they've changed stuff from DS to DST that seems to have messed a little with the lore and I just want this tangle to be out in the open.  That's all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lumina    2,132

This question wasn't for you, it's more global because some people seem to be angry/annoyed about decoration. Again, i explained it adds a challenge, but yeah, it's subtle. Maybe it's not the case for you, but there is a lot of players with differents playstyles.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mday    389

Funny how some people keep asking for challenge.

Ginger host a hardcore server, noone play on it. Art host it again, still noone show up.

DF can't be cheesed, noone go kite it on pub.

DF can be cheesed, everyone rush to cheese it to death.

I guess 99.99% players aren't really going for the challenge anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kzisor    1,057
19 minutes ago, Mday said:

Funny how some people keep asking for challenge.

Ginger host a hardcore server, noone play on it. Art host it again, still noone show up.

DF can't be cheesed, noone go kite it on pub.

DF can be cheesed, everyone rush to cheese it to death.

I guess 99.99% players aren't really going for the challenge anyway.

Or they aren't playing on public servers.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mday    389
Just now, Kzisor said:

Or they aren't playing on public servers.

You have to ask these players. Do they play on public and avoid soloing DF, or do they play elsewhere and find DF too easy to solo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EuedeAdodooedoe    1,186
On 11/26/2016 at 8:58 AM, Lumina said:

Hounds and Giants are easiers to deal with ? Why ? Usually i find them more dangerous than in classic DS, but i play with one or two friends. Maybe it's related to the number of players on the server ? And so, easier when you are close to max players ?

I don't agree at all.

My experience is totally different. The more objective you have, the greatest the risk.

Because when you are focusing on adding cute fence around your farm, you aren't preparing winter. You spend resource you could use for survival. You don't harvest food, twigs, grass, you don't get some useful stuff.

When you spend time finding the ending table, you aren't searching something more useful. When you are capturing bird for feather for sign, you spend resource you could use for things more useful.

Of course, usually, nothing extreme. People will still do the important things and spend free time for decoration. But decoration could distract people, make them become less prepared than usually, or without the resource they would usually have. Not enough to starve awfully but enough to ADD challenge and not remove it. Because decoration is useless, so any time devoted to decoration is a time not spending in something useful, meaning that you have globally an higher difficulty.

So decoration add challenge. And of course, decoration could encourage you to fight Dragonfly, Toadstool and others dangerous things, so it create new difficult situations.

 

Of course, not mandatory, but still.

What? I have not seen a professional or even a medium level player focus on creating a decoration rather than something they DESPERATELY need... ever! Where is this kind of logic coming from, describe your scenarios if you have any. Also you find Stagehand not the End table, you craft the End table.

Decoration doesn't encourage me at least to fight anything. I would fight Toadstool purely for the sake of having something bigger to do. And the fact that the shroom hats give out spores and slow down your hunger, which can be some bit useful when farming mushrooms. The lights might be kind of a decoration, I suppose, although generally they're more of a light that doesn't give out heat or breeze without requiring something requires a tougher resource to waste for fuel and doesn't make you lose sanity when standing near it (I'm talking of course about the night light... man, the thing essentially got made even less useful than before it seems). The Scaled furnace isn't a decorative thing at all either, it's a forever-lasting light and heat source that you can cook on! Plus, killing Dragonfly loots an important item, 1- 2 of that is important in renewing thulecite (green gems).

Even if all that Toadstool and Dragonfly gave in terms of important items was just decoration, if they were still stationary raid bosses, you would still see people going for them (though possibly not nearly as often as players beat them right now) because of not having anything else other to do in the game.

It isn't that I think there should be an incentive to fight the bosses (there is), but that bosses should at least, at some point come to you or be of somewhat a trap/consequence/surprise, like with my suggestion of Bee Queen being a guardian of bee hives, similarly to the Tree guard and evergreens, while Toadstool could act like a trap boss in its own biome, similarly how Depth worms are a trap mob with the glow berries (although at the moment, it's very easy to keep the trap thing away from danger since standing near a glowberry plant that is actually a depth worm will take away sanity, so @V2C patching this for a true surprise would really be great for improving the game design for them in relation to players).

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EuedeAdodooedoe    1,186
On 11/26/2016 at 9:01 AM, FreyaMaluk said:

1) time zones.... plain and simple... BTW, have you played in random dedicated servers?? I bet you haven't.

1) If you can get bees from your own beeboxes why should you even consider going on a hunt for tumbleweeds just for the bees?? This makes no sense to me... You can have 1800 in the game, but this is not a very clever way around that problem in particular.

1) I have played on random dedicated servers, a lot in fact. I mean, why would you go fight a giant with selfish players? Just fight without them and prep more or ask over players that actually aren't selfish, simple as, no?

2) You... seriously? I said, before that " bees become much harder to obtain if you have lost all of your bee hives and only have bee queen for honey combs as you need 4 for a bee box " so, in other words, as it seems you're completely skipping over what I write, I'm describing a scenario where all the bee hives are destroyed, all the bee boxes have been destroyed, with all the bees from them dead, which results in tumbleweeds as the only way to obtain any form of bees. So, having an easier way to get bees renewably in a way that cannot be destroyed completely (the way I mean, not the hives themselves. As in, if bee hives are respawning in some way, say from the grumble bees that spawn from the giant bee hive, then since the giant bee hive keeps respawning, it will respawn bee hives over time, meaning it's an indestructible way of renewably getting bees. Got it?). Are you confused or do you get it now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mday    389

There should be an official preset, where dragonfly and toad will visit players base and won't de-spawn on its own.

Hope it can make people happy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lumina    2,132
11 hours ago, Mday said:

You have to ask these players. Do they play on public and avoid soloing DF, or do they play elsewhere and find DF too easy to solo.

I think it's more complex. A challenge you search doesn't necessary give you the same feeling that a challenge you have to face or flee. For example, if i want to fight hound in desert biome, i will recruit some pigs and kill them. But hound wave could be more dangerous because i could be less prepared or without pigs nearly or...

Also, killing dragonfly alone could be a kind of challenge, but not everyone like doing this, especially when it have no impact (except if you do a video and got some comments like "it's impressive"). So i guess that it's not really more rewarding than killing the boss with help.

I think that it's very great to have some boss you don't have to fight if you don't want to, like dragonfly, toadstool, bee queen. But i guess that people here lack some challenge that will come to them rather than challenge that they will search. The feeling isn't the same, especially in a survival game.

 

But i'm not sure these challenges should be hard and (for dragonfly), destructive. For me, i hate to have my entire base destroyed because of a boss, it's not fun.

And usually, since i play alone, boss aren't the funny part of the game for me.

 

I think that it would be great if we have more dangerous things appears in the world after the first year. Plenty of time for news players and the one who still have things to learn to enjoy the game and the difficulty (because i'm a little tired of "it's too easy", don't forget : it's not true for everyone), and providing new challenge for everyone reaching this point.

For example, frog rain in spring isn't a boss, but could still be really annoying or dangerous (especially at night), and could be very fun if you manage to reach a beefalo spot during the frog rain. It's a difficulty (agressives monster all around, stealing your inventory), it could be worse if you make mistake (like attacking them), and if you manage to use it well, you are rewarded.

Maybe you could imagine more event like this after year one. Challenging, breaking monotony, and fun.



Or adding variant to season. For example, a dry summer. Ponds are dried, they spawn moskito all day, even classic pond. Some animals like mole are becoming agressive because of the heat, and will search to attack you. So sometime you'll have classis summer, sometime dry summer, sometime another variant, and you'll have to adapt.

 

3 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:
On 26/11/2016 at 9:58 AM, Lumina said:

 

What? I have not seen a professional or even a medium level player focus on creating a decoration rather than something they DESPERATELY need...

Please, if you don't understand me, could you ask explanation more quietly ? I never spoke about doing decoration instead of something you desperately need.

But for example, i'm in winter, a base set, most of the things ok, and i spend some time searching one resource for a cool decoration stuff... And i forget to have some things against rain in spring. Nothing big and DESPERATE or anything, but still, it could lead to some hard days in spring that could be avoided, because instead of planning, i've done some fun things with decoration.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TemporaryMan    1,300
5 hours ago, SuperPsiPower said:

I don't wanna play on a modded server. I want an authentic gameplay experience. There is no satisfaction to be gained by playing on a server where there are 50 million mods that make the game easier or harder.

Gingerbread Cookies was a vanilla server, so that doesn't explain it.

I used to be a regular on GC before the hardcore server was added, and I can explain exactly why I didn't join it: that was around the same time that I figured out how many Oblivion saves I had to go back to find one that wasn't corrupt, so I didn't have much time for DST anymore.  By the time I decided I wanted to go back to DST for a while, GC was gone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mday    389
Just now, TemporaryMan said:

Gingerbread Cookies was a vanilla server, so that doesn't explain it.

I used to be a regular on GC before the hardcore server was added, and I can explain exactly why I didn't join it: that was around the same time that I figured out how many Oblivion saves I had to go back to find one that wasn't corrupt, so I didn't have much time for DST anymore.  By the time I decided I wanted to go back to DST for a while, GC was gone.

No temp, for a short period of time ginger had a 3rd server. It use a different sets of world gen rules that makes the server "hardcore". Then not long ago Art rehost it again for about 2~3 weeks before it was taken away again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
228    61

I really think feather pencil should be durable item, requiring more jet feathers and charcoal to craft, but with ability to refuel it with ink (butter + charcoal).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now