Does Wes make sense in DST?

[Muttbutt]

I don't get the arguement here. So you're saying because Wes is a challenge character, peole should pick Wigfrid over him? Why not Wolfgang over Wigfrid since Wolfgang is way better at fighting than her? Why not just remove every character that isn't Wickerbottom, Maxwell, and Wolfgang? 

Wes doesn't offer that much help gameplay wise, no. He is more of a morale character, and gives players more of a reason to try and play well, while also wanting to play and have fun. The game is too easy for some, and Wes gives them an incentive to play and help others survive. 

Some people play characters based on looks. Wolfgang again is one of the best characters gameplay wise, but I love Wes because he is cute and far more better to look at than Wolfgang imo.

Together means team work, and Wes makes a team really come together, having that small handicap giving you a reason to work faster and generally be more efficient.

I'd much rather play Wes and have fun with friends over being Wigfrid and be bored, as well as no need to depend on a team. I might as well play singleplayer at that point.

[Axehilt]

13 hours ago, BlindGunner said:

Maybe because we don't see it as valid or logical?

Sorry were logical points eventually raised by the second page?  None were raised in any responses I saw.  It was mostly just people joking around and avoiding taking the topic seriously, or failing to understand that the game rules (server settings) are a vastly superior way to create a "hard mode" experience.  

[Axehilt]

8 hours ago, SuperPsiPower said:

There is a difference between ganging up on someone and giving constructive criticism. 

There is no way to bring any sort of new playstyle out of wes because of how he is now. When they said "balance" they more or less excluded wes cause he functions perfectly the way he does now, he was "balanced" on release by limiting his balloons in a world, sanity cost for a balloon, and the fact others can't use it.

And for arguments sake, @Clwnbaby recently showed me that with his balloons you can effectively farm for nightmare fuel which is pretty helpful for magic.

The OP clearly stated the objective reality of Wes being underpowered.  

The thread's response (including your baseless claim that Wes "functions perfectly the way he does now") hasn't been what could be considered "constructive criticism" because the objective truth the OP presented still stands uncontested.  The attempts to field subjective reasons why Wes should suck have been unfounded too (because like I said the core two arguments are aesthetic and hardmode, and (a) he'll still be a goofy balloonmancer if he's balanced so he'll retain his aesthetic, and (b) players can still host or join hardmode servers as any character, and if Wes became balanced there will simply be that much more variety to hardmode play.)

Also not sure what you're trying to point out with the balloon thing.  The OP never stated Wes is completely and literally useless, and the OP even clarified this in a later post.  So it's irrelevant if there's something Wes can do, unless you can show that thing is so valuable as to make Wes balanced with the other characters.  You and I both know it doesn't.

So this wasn't constructive criticism, it was a bunch of folks ganging up on someone who had a legitimate, objective balance concern.

[SuperPsiPower]

18 minutes ago, Axehilt said:

The OP clearly stated the objective reality of Wes being underpowered.  

The thread's response (including your baseless claim that Wes "functions perfectly the way he does now") hasn't been what could be considered "constructive criticism" because the objective truth the OP presented still stands uncontested.  The attempts to field subjective reasons why Wes should suck have been unfounded too (because like I said the core two arguments are aesthetic and hardmode, and (a) he'll still be a goofy balloonmancer if he's balanced so he'll retain his aesthetic, and (b) players can still host or join hardmode servers as any character, and if Wes became balanced there will simply be that much more variety to hardmode play.)

Also not sure what you're trying to point out with the balloon thing.  The OP never stated Wes is completely and literally useless, and the OP even clarified this in a later post.  So it's irrelevant if there's something Wes can do, unless you can show that thing is so valuable as to make Wes balanced with the other characters.  You and I both know it doesn't.

So this wasn't constructive criticism, it was a bunch of folks ganging up on someone who had a legitimate, objective balance concern.

The "balloon thing" wasn't directed torward you.

See Clwnbaby's post.

Edit: This is also my last post here, I gave all my valid reasoning and nor does the OP care anymore, and some people can't understand my point of view. I think it's about time for this thread to be locked, since the OP clearly is done with the whole conversation.

[Moon64]

An experienced player using Wes will be several times more helpful than a new player using Wicker, Wolfgang, Max, Webber, etc.

Just because he doesn't much of a unique talent to bring to the table, doesn't mean he can't be an effective and helpful teammate.

Balloons also make pretty nice decor.

[thisbird]

I've seen several people with opinions like this one, and I honestly don't understand it.

The way I see it, Wes is fine as-is. I absolutely never cringe when a Wes enters my server; on the contrary, the Wes players I run into tend to be courteous, helpful, and really know their stuff. He's a challenging character, but by and large people pick him because of that, and know how to handle him.

I've seen people throw out Wes' uses as far as balloons and nightmare fuel go, so I won't double down. But I will throw out one no one has brought up yet.

I play DST a lot with random strangers, but I also play with irl friends. My irl friends want an easier time, and they routinely set the world gen to less wolves, no deerclops, etc. And that's fine; their focus is on other things in the game. But before we start a new game, I know I can ask them, "Hey, what are the world gen settings?" And if they're too easy, I just let them know, "Okay, I'm going to play Wes."

He offers the unique ability to present something of a challenge when the people you want to play with have a different difficulty level than you might prefer. And no other character comes close to offering that.

His only real downside is that I've seen him get so much hate on the forums, I hesitate to bring him into a public game. It's a real shame. It's a game for pretendy funtimes on the internet. People should be able to play who they want without worrying about getting kicked on sight or invoking ill-will from the other players before so much as a word is spoken.

(That said, I do like the ideas floating around about some kind of team-benefitting ability that still makes it harder on Wes. Raise another's sanity at the cost of your own, heal at the cost of your health, etc.)

[Hezel]

Why complain about diversity ?

[or1239]

oh man, so many people repeating the same said things over and over :\

[Hezel]

17 minutes ago, or1239 said:

oh man, so many people repeating the same said things over and over :\

Here, you dropped your fedora.

 

[Shian]

5 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

 

No. Just no. It's not "entitlement" to wish somebody had added an otherwise absent Wigfrid to the mix instead of a third Webber or whatever. It's just how I feel; it's how I do things, and how I wish others did things. I don't think I deserve or have a right to anything, so take your overly charged e-word and shove it.

Fine, call it a small preference or concern, the point still stands.

I responded to this thread because the original question of whether Wes makes sense in dst is interesting and should be considered, but it's been considered and rebutted and now it's going nowhere. I'm washing my hands of this thread.

[Mudley]

2 hours ago, Hezel said:

Here, you dropped your fedora.

I don't think "le fedora maymay" fits quite well with the post you just quoted.

[ADinosaur]

  Everyone keeps saying the same thing, "Wes is meant to be hard." What OP is trying to say is so that he can help the team in ways other than the basic and usual that everyone else would do. "Oh but he loses hunger faster so he has to collect it more frequently and in bigger quantities!" Frequency isn't based on whether or not the Wes was to help the team. It's just that he has to feed himself. Bigger quantities are often the same story as well to make the trips less frequent, but can sometimes be to help the team (Which every other character can also do.)

 

  Can Wes grow beards and save resources? Can Wes craft lighters that you can cook with? Can Wes have 300 hunger, more health, speed, and damage? Can Wes summon ghosts and lose less sanity through the night? Can Wes know everything in tier 1 science at the get-go and craft and use books? Can Wes have a infinitive durability talking axe, turn into a werebeaver, and gain sanity from planting pinecones? Can Wes make shadow monsters that do the work for him? Can Wes craft better spears and helmets and gain sanity and health from killing foes? The only thing Wes can really do is make himself go insane faster than every other character. But that's not a direct upside. It's more or less a debenefit being used as a benefit. OP wants Wes to have a direct benefit to the TEAM, not himself.

[Soto8969]

and why is it bad for only one character not to have "something" for the "team"?

[ADinosaur]

2 minutes ago, Soto8969 said:

and why is it bad for only one character not to have "something" for the "team"?

Why is it bad for one guy not having to work and just leech off of the hard workers of the base? (Note I'm not directing this at Wes. Just players in general.)

[Soto8969]

24 minutes ago, ADinosaur said:

Why is it bad for one guy not having to work and just leech off of the hard workers of the base? (Note I'm not directing this at Wes. Just players in general.)

touché.

[Faintly Macabre]

49 minutes ago, Soto8969 said:

and why is it bad for only one character not to have "something" for the "team"?

I said I was done, but I just want to take a moment to give something a nod.

6 hours ago, thisbird said:

His only real downside is that I've seen him get so much hate on the forums, I hesitate to bring him into a public game. It's a real shame. It's a game for pretendy funtimes on the internet. People should be able to play who they want without worrying about getting kicked on sight or invoking ill-will from the other players before so much as a word is spoken.

This. Is. The. Point. Entirely.

I personally don't actually care all that much who you play. Either you're going to carry your weight or not; if you don't, then you don't, and I'll act accordingly. The fact is, I don't need books, I don't need better helmets and spears, I don't need lighters, etc. etc. I don't even need people. In addition to my team play I've actually got a pretty successful DST world I play solo in off hours and stuff (although for the life of me, in 300-some days I haven't managed to get the damned Ewecus to spawn, could use more people for that). So as long as you're fun to play with, I don't really give a damn who you play. At this point, you might think I was full of it, recalling this:

18 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

it won't make me cringe any less when I see a Wes has joined my game when we could have used some Wigfrid or Maxwell love.

Or this:

8 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

It's not "entitlement" to wish somebody had added an otherwise absent Wigfrid to the mix instead of a third Webber or whatever. It's just how I feel; it's how I do things, and how I wish others did things.

The reason I cringe, and the reason I wish others did things this way is because while I don't give a crap one way or the other, other people do. I've seen plenty of people get in a tizzy about who newcomers pick when they arrive, for various reasons. You can argue "well that's not right, don't play with those people," and you're right. Problem is, whether they should feel that way or not, a game could be going perfectly smoothly up to that point and suddenly the mood gets tense.

There's no way to completely avoid that because some people are just stupid or mean, like the people who apparently have hate-ons for Webber players (I don't understand this at all). But there's no way to defend Wes other than to say, "That's what they want." Unless you're buying this aesthetic stuff or the nightmare fuel thing, I guess.

So I just wondered if maybe he should be given something tangible that you could point to and say, "This makes it worth it," so that just a few more people could, in fact, play who they want without pissing people off. If this topic is any indication, apparently not, so whatever. Just noticed @thisbird's post and was thinking about the entitled accusation and felt like setting the record straight. I'm outie; peace.

[CameoAppearance]

I don't think Wes's underpowered/needy nature will actually be a big enough factor to negatively affect the group unless you've got a group of all expert players and maximally efficient gameplay is a vital consideration from character choice onwards. So, either you're playing a tournament or something, or you've set up your world to be much more challenging than the default through mods or worldgen customization and it'll be hard enough for a regular character to survive, much less someone with Wes' low health and big appetite.

If you're not playing with a group of experts -- I don't even mean beginners/people who suck at the game, I just mean intermediate players who don't know the game inside and out and haven't found the best strategies for everything -- then Wes' bigger appetite and the fact that he needs to hit mobs a few more times to kill them will disappear into the background, so long as the Wes is one of the better players in that group.

However, since he's harder to play solo and doesn't offer anything to the rest of the group by being around except some fun decorations, there is indeed not really much reason for people to play him if they're not already Wes fans. It'd be nice if Wes got some perks that made him more valuable to others without making the game easier for his own player, like people have suggested.

[WildWesternWilson]

12 hours ago, Muttbutt said:

I don't get the arguement here. So you're saying because Wes is a challenge character, peole should pick Wigfrid over him? Why not Wolfgang over Wigfrid since Wolfgang is way better at fighting than her? Why not just remove every character that isn't Wickerbottom, Maxwell, and Wolfgang? 

Wes doesn't offer that much help gameplay wise, no. He is more of a morale character, and gives players more of a reason to try and play well, while also wanting to play and have fun. The game is too easy for some, and Wes gives them an incentive to play and help others survive. 

Some people play characters based on looks. Wolfgang again is one of the best characters gameplay wise, but I love Wes because he is cute and far more better to look at than Wolfgang imo.

Together means team work, and Wes makes a team really come together, having that small handicap giving you a reason to work faster and generally be more efficient.

I'd much rather play Wes and have fun with friends over being Wigfrid and be bored, as well as no need to depend on a team. I might as well play singleplayer at that point.

Wolfgang has big nipples when he's mighty, though. 

LOOK AT IT
SAVOUR IT

5 hours ago, ADinosaur said:

Why is it bad for one guy not having to work and just leech off of the hard workers of the base? (Note I'm not directing this at Wes. Just players in general.)

That doesn't tend to be the case with a Wes player, though. If you play the character who needs to see a doctor every five seconds, you won't be the one standing around waiting to die unless you are mentally deficient. 

[or1239]

10 hours ago, Soto8969 said:

and why is it bad for only one character not to have "something" for the "team"?

i guess Wes doesn't HAVE to have something like that (referring  to being able to help other player past: resources, food, hitting things together etc.)

it would just be a lot nicer ,  i mean Wes isn't the only player around anymore and you gotta be honest that game is a bit different now. 

characters weren't built to work with other players or their powers and playstyle but that doesn't mean we can't change or add things so they can have great combos and strategys  , and still be true to their original playstyle and be their own stand alone character.

characters's powers even compliment others already  , Maxwell being able to read Wickerbottom's books, players being able to use Willow's lighter and use Wigfrid's armor and spear, and the reason we are able to do that is so characters can bring something past the basics and make for interesting experience for not only themselfs but for others aswell,

And that doesnt mean players have to pick different characters  to fill the different 'missing roles' ether. even if the intire server picks Wendy, they still all get benifit from eachother's abigails, even if the intire server picks Wilson they all enjoy the extra beard hair and extra meat effigys.

Wes doesn't have to have something like that and it would be really nice if he did, and he can still stay his own challenge character while being able to support players with the basics and beyond.

 

[WildWesternWilson]

Can we just bury this and agree to disagree? 

[Faintly Macabre]

5 hours ago, WildWesternWilson said:

Can we just bury this and agree to disagree? 

The topic hadn't been touched in nearly 24 hours and was on the second page. :s

[WildWesternWilson]

51 minutes ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

The topic hadn't been touched in nearly 24 hours and was on the second page. :s

That's a start.

[The Letter W]

On 5/10/2016 at 4:11 AM, or1239 said:

 

Wes doesn't have to have something like that and it would be really nice if he did, and he can still stay his own challenge character while being able to support players with the basics and beyond.

 

if you have x amount of ice you should be able to make water balloons since he already has an infinite supply of balloons. of course, it'll still take a chunk out of his sanity when he crafts them. 

[Bahlsen]

1 hour ago, The Letter W said:

if you have x amount of ice you should be able to make water balloons

While I think it would be blasphemy to make Wes easier, a little and supportive tweak like this would be cool, and if someone thinks water balloons are useless let me tell this story : 4-5 days ago I decided to make water balloons for a prank, by filling mosquito sacks by a pond (discovered this method only recently...), when I came back to the base it was burning because of someone who apparently "made a mistake". It was highly satisfying to save the base thanks to the balloons.

[Axehilt]

On 5/10/2016 at 8:20 PM, Soto8969 said:

and why is it bad for only one character not to have "something" for the "team"?

It's not, in a single player game.

DST isn't a single player game.