Shian Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 The thing to consider is that DST is a game where you are free to choose how you play. Yes, when 4 people of equal skill (hypothetically) play and one character is Wes then they would be better off picking another character, but what if the extra difficulty is exactly what they want? Wes ' ability is his inability. He brings an extra challenge to the table, and that's his contribution to the team. It's the same as setting touchstones to none, but using a character instead. And as I said, choice. if you don't like Wes don't play him or kick him out of your server, but don't change him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiddyGuy Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 39 minutes ago, ADinosaur said: What does he bring? Balloons that are almost useless. Parties. :^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soto8969 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 You can simply don't choose Wes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperPsiPower Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 5 minutes ago, Shian said: kick him out of your server, but don't change him. Just because someone plays wes doesn't mean you HAVE to kick them. Remember when Willow was known to be the No. 1 Grief character? Thats basically saying the same thing for Wes and kicking Wes for being Wes. I agree with what you say, but kicking people based on who they play is a little unfair and discouraging. So I would advise you not to encourage that please. As for the entire thread, who cares if Wes serves no real purpose? I mean, take it from my point of view; He isn't broken, cheap, or hard to use. He is just standard character survival. And what difference would it make if Wes was removed from DST? If you don't like him, don't play him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudley Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Again, gotta love how people is just concentrating on circlejerking, but completely avoiding the main question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faintly Macabre Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 18 minutes ago, Soto8969 said: You can simply don't choose Wes. 18 minutes ago, SuperPsiPower said: And what difference would it make if Wes was removed from DST? If you don't like him, don't play him. Never suggested removing him, and since people play this game Together, the issue I have does not simply go away if I don't play him; I don't, and still have a concern, so it's obviously not as simple as that. Is it really necessary to be so dismissive? I just want a reason to want him to be around, and not feel like opportunity is being wasted by virtue of his presence in place of another character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezukie Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Well in single play Wes was a challenge, he didn't help you or give you any perks. That remained the same in Together since the characters are about different play styles, not balance. Wes play style is he makes you use more resources and do more work for the challenge of it (Although I would admit he isn't very hard to play even with his downsides.) and that's why people play him. He makes sense by being different and not following the other characters as they all have their different play styles so does our mute mime. And just because you play together doesn't mean everyone has a great role that benefits all to every extent, since this is again about different play style not balanced play styles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soto8969 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Mezukie said: Well in single play Wes was a challenge, he didn't help you or give you any perks. That remained the same in Together since the characters are about different play styles, not balance. Wes play style is he makes you use more resources and do more work for the challenge of it (Although I would admit he isn't very hard to play even with his downsides.) and that's why people play him. He makes sense by being different and not following the other characters as they all have their different play styles so does our mute mime. And just because you play together doesn't mean everyone has a great role that benefits all to every extent, since this is again about different play style not balanced play styles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlZalph Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 5 minutes ago, Mezukie said: different play style not balanced play styles. What about all the characters that were changed for balancing reasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faintly Macabre Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 Still not asking for BALANCE. And he could have a different playstyle while still bringing something to the table. Why are people having such a hard time with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asparagus Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 He brings effective Nightmare Fuel Farming methods to the table... his balloons can get him insane quickly and then you can farm as many nightmares as you like... then you can have more dark swords or whatever for everyone... plus, have you tried popping a balloon field while nightmares are around? glorious XD He makes sense in DST in that he is the underdog... it is up to the player to make him succeed or not... From what I see his most effective asset is his Balloons that as I stated will make him go insane quickly and you and your group can farm nightmares indefinitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezukie Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 5 minutes ago, CarlZalph said: What about all the characters that were changed for balancing reasons? Those were more for griefing reasons that I understand, and they aren't really balanced either after the fact. Each character still excels in certain aspects of the game over others in ways that people choose them for that reason, which isn't balanced. 5 minutes ago, TheHalcyonOne said: Still not asking for BALANCE. And he could have a different playstyle while still bringing something to the table. Why are people having such a hard time with this? For the most part Wes was made to not bring anything to the table since single player, most like him this way. They like the fact that he doesn't bring anything as he's suppose to be a challenge and while this may not seem good for together it's just how he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faintly Macabre Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 6 minutes ago, Mezukie said: Those were more for griefing reasons that I understand Willow is the only one as far as I'm aware that was changed to combat griefing. 8 minutes ago, Mezukie said: Each character still excels in certain aspects of the game over others in ways that people choose them for that reason, which isn't balanced. You may not understand what it means for things to be balanced. In fighting games, characters all excel in specific applications and people choose them based on those reasons, and they can most certainly be this way while still being balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalZahn Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, Asparagus said: He brings effective Nightmare Fuel Farming methods to the table... his balloons can get him insane quickly and then you can farm as many nightmares as you like... then you can have more dark swords or whatever for everyone... plus, have you tried popping a balloon field while nightmares are around? glorious XD Ah! Never thought of that! Craft him a hambat and armor, and let him go to town on some nightmares! It may not be necessarily an 'intended' perk, but it gets the job done pretty fast! I'm actually sold on this idea. Other than dancing on the edge of darkness, staying completely soaked, or using greencaps and other sanity foods, Wes has it easiest in getting the nightmare creatures! I suppose caves could make this ability obsolete eventually, but it's not too dissimilar to get immunity to fire with the scalemail (Willow) or getting a good source of beard hair from bunnymen/shadow splumonkeys/etc (Wilson), having the spiderqueen hat (Webber), or crafting better equipment than what wigfrid has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezukie Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 1 minute ago, TheHalcyonOne said: Willow is the only one as far as I'm aware that was changed to combat griefing. You may not understand what it means for things to be balanced. In fighting games, characters all excel in specific applications and people choose them based on those reasons, and they can most certainly be this way while still being balanced. Really? I thought there was more than her unless it was a thread for it instead. No game has true balance, someone will always be better then another in a certain fields, people choosing them for that reason. Balanced means everything is equal in proportion. if that is true then each character should excel at one certain thing but that isn't the case as with most fighting games or games in general. A lot of the time there is someone who out classes another and makes them useless. But that isn't the case with this game. They don't strive for balance but different play styles, which making Wes more useful then he already is would kill his challenge which is the reason he exists. It is fine that you want him to be more helpful but in all honesty he is helpful even with his downsides, he doesn't need flashy perks, or different allies, or different forms to survive and thrive with the rest of the group and make a great teammate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperPsiPower Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 34 minutes ago, TheHalcyonOne said: Still not asking for BALANCE. And he could have a different playstyle while still bringing something to the table. Why are people having such a hard time with this? Wes will always be the same. We know what you're trying to say but its futile to argue from your standpoint as his sole existance is simply to be a useless character. Why do people have such a hard time swallowing the fact that Wes is MEANT to be bad and his playstyle WON'T be changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faintly Macabre Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, Mezukie said: Really? I thought there was more than her unless it was a thread for it instead. No game has true balance, someone will always be better then another in a certain fields, people choosing them for that reason. Balanced means everything is equal in proportion. if that is true then each character should excel at one certain thing but that isn't the case as with most fighting games or games in general. A lot of the time there is someone who out classes another and makes them useless. But that isn't the case with this game. They don't strive for balance but different play styles, which making Wes more useful then he already is would kill his challenge which is the reason he exists. It is fine that you want him to be more helpful but in all honesty he is helpful even with his downsides, he doesn't need flashy perks, or different allies, or different forms to survive and thrive with the rest of the group and make a great teammate. If that's how you define balance then okay, I guess, but that is definitely not how the majority of the gaming community defines it. And most of the big-name fighting games in fact endeavor to maintain balance amongst their rosters, adjusting characters as necessary to ensure they all have roles in which they shine. Obviously they rarely if ever reach that magical point of PERFECT balance, but things don't have to be perfectly described by a word to be describable by that word. And Klei very obviously strove for balance among (most) of the DST roster; just take a look at the changes to Woodie, or giving WX higher base stats. 5 minutes ago, SuperPsiPower said: Wes will always be the same. We know what you're trying to say but its futile to argue from your standpoint as his sole existance is simply to be a useless character. Why do people have such a hard time swallowing the fact that Wes is MEANT to be bad and his playstyle WON'T be changed? You can't possibly say for certain that he will always be the same or that his playstyle WON'T be changed, and I'm not sure I'm necessarily suggesting his playstyle be changed. And I don't think he's MEANT to be bad; I think he's meant to be challenging. That doesn't preclude the possibility of having something to offer to the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soto8969 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Wes is not a regular character. He's the product of the greatest minds of a generation working together with the express purpose of creating the most useless character who ever lived. And you are just complaining about his only porpuse: Being Useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axehilt Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Wow why did everyone gang up on this guy with his completely valid and logical point? I mean half the arguments against are basically "but look at his aesthetic!" as though losing his aesthetic was somehow part of what the OP is asking for. (Hint: it isn't.) It's not like you can't create a Hard Mode server where challenges are ratcheted up. (And when all characters are balanced, now you can have that hard mode experience with multiple playstyles instead of just Wes!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeklo Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 1 minute ago, TheHalcyonOne said: I don't think the purpose was to be useless so much as challenging, but uh. Please just **** off if all you're going to do is be sarcastic and dismissive. This human emotion is known as "humor". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soto8969 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, TheHalcyonOne said: I don't think the purpose was to be useless so much as challenging, but uh. Please just **** off if all you're going to do is be sarcastic and dismissive. Sorry, i just wanted to do a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindGunner Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 1 minute ago, TheHalcyonOne said: I don't think the purpose was to be useless so much as challenging, but uh. Please just **** off if all you're going to do is be sarcastic and dismissive. He's challenging by being "useless." 3 minutes ago, Axehilt said: Wow why did everyone gang up on this guy with his completely valid and logical point? Maybe because we don't see it as valid or logical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faintly Macabre Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, BlindGunner said: He's challenging by being "useless." Being useless isn't being challenging, though. It's just being useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeklo Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, TheHalcyonOne said: The guy's been a dismissive smartass from the word go. You can certainly employ humor to that end. I think you've narrowed your mind too much to your own opinion. What you're saying is valid. Wes doesn't provide anything to a group. Their point is valid too. Wes isn't supposed to provide anything. For that reason you determined he doesn't make sense in DST. Others have determined he is fine in DST. The first part are facts. The second part are opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Mouse Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 We done here or this thread is going to continue repeating itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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