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w00tyd00d

What do you think of Don't Starve's difficulty?

What is your stance on the game's difficulty?  

220 members have voted

  1. 1. What is your stance on the game's difficulty?

    • Too hard!
    • Too easy!
    • Just right!
    • Could use just a LITTLE improvement...


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Torasko    17

Well, tomorrow the new update is coming. I bet this topic is going to get really interesting once we know what the new update brings to the table.

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Ickorus    10

Both, starts off fairly easy but then gets some horrible artificial difficulty later on in the game. (Hounds and increasingly large packs of them, bleh, the rest of the late game is easy besides them though)

I'd like to see the game become a bit more difficult in regards to the longer you play the harder it gets but I don't like the current method of just sending increasingly larger packs of and more deadly enemies at you, I'd rather it was a bit more subtle than that (Such as reduced resources as the game progresses and such so a player who's mindful of the islands resources will last longer than someone who just destroys everything in sight.

I also wouldn't mind more powerful enemies appearing as the game goes on so long as they weren't just sent directly at you like the hounds are, perhaps the animals of the island(s) could mutate or something?

To stop the camping in base I'd love to see things like meat effigys and plants on farm plots and such have a chance of turning on you too, like in a bunch of the suggestions on the forums so people won't be able to just spam things and remain in their base forever with no worry of the outside world?

Edited by Ickorus

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Kuse82    10

Game is just too hard for new players, and which is why it puts off new players from taking a chance on this game. The mechanics are punishing and is only viable by various exploits of camping/hoarding...

I would like to see vast improvements to make it easier for newer players or those that are just not used to these kindof games. Maybe a grace period or a tutorial...options to customize ones experience in the game.

I'm not saying make the game easy street I'm saying to streamline the experience for all audiences. Hardcore and Casual alike..otherwise you just won't make a decent profit and Minecraft will continue its reign of existence.

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Game is just too hard for new players, and which is why it puts off new players from taking a chance on this game. The mechanics are punishing and is only viable by various exploits of camping/hoarding...

I would like to see vast improvements to make it easier for newer players or those that are just not used to these kindof games. Maybe a grace period or a tutorial...options to customize ones experience in the game.

I'm not saying make the game easy street I'm saying to streamline the experience for all audiences. Hardcore and Casual alike..otherwise you just won't make a decent profit and Minecraft will continue its reign of existence.

What's up with all the fan boying over Minecraft? You can't just expect a game like this to top something as big as that. And everyone who has bought this game is a new player, some fail miserably and others get the hang of it. Everyone will get the hang of it in time. Except you, you will forever be on the forums complaining about how hard this game is.

Edited by Wilson P. Higgsbury

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Moonkis    153

Game is just too hard for new players, and which is why it puts off new players from taking a chance on this game. The mechanics are punishing and is only viable by various exploits of camping/hoarding...

I would like to see vast improvements to make it easier for newer players or those that are just not used to these kindof games. Maybe a grace period or a tutorial...options to customize ones experience in the game.

I'm not saying make the game easy street I'm saying to streamline the experience for all audiences. Hardcore and Casual alike..otherwise you just won't make a decent profit and Minecraft will continue its reign of existence.

Game hard? Pffft, learn by trial and error, that's how I and my friends did it, without the wiki. If you don't want a challenge then don't play DS. I don't get why that is so hard.

I think Binding of Isaac is hard, but I took the time to learn it now I complete the game every 3'rd run or so. I don't jump in on the Binding of Isaac forum and say:" hey this game is to hard for my liking, please make it easier or have an easy mode. ".

The game is not meant to be easy, if it's to hard and you don't like the difficulty then don't play it man.

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Kuse82    10

What's up with all the fan boying over Minecraft? You can't just expect a game like this to top something as big as that. And everyone who has bought this game is a new player, some fail miserably and others get the hang of it. Everyone will get the hang of it in time. Except you, you will forever be on the forums complaining about how hard this game is.

You took only a fraction of what I said and took it out of context...Lets try and stay on point and discuss how this game can be improved in various respects for all audiences who want to enjoy the content.

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Kuse82    10

Some great gaming community you have here where you bash people who only bring constructive criticism to the game. Don't like what I say then don't comment.

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Some great gaming community you have here where you bash people who only bring constructive criticism to the game. Don't like what I say then don't comment.

My apologies, it's just there are too many people complaining that this game is to hard and there are too many people complaining that this game is too easy. It gets on my nerves, plus Klei has been dishing out updates for quite some time. They can't just turn around, drop everything and focus on difficulty.

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w00tyd00d    193

Game is just too hard for new players, and which is why it puts off new players from taking a chance on this game. The mechanics are punishing and is only viable by various exploits of camping/hoarding...

I would like to see vast improvements to make it easier for newer players or those that are just not used to these kindof games. Maybe a grace period or a tutorial...options to customize ones experience in the game.

I'm not saying make the game easy street I'm saying to streamline the experience for all audiences. Hardcore and Casual alike..otherwise you just won't make a decent profit and Minecraft will continue its reign of existence.

What you need to remember tho is that this game is a survival game first, sandbox game second. It's not meant to be so much like minecraft's feel of "do whatever you feel like doing," it's supposed to be "ok, what do I need to do next in order to stay alive." The reason the devs are putting in more sandbox'y kind of things are for the people who have the surviving thing down pat and want to add in another thing to do to add on top of the challenges they're forced to face against. If you aren't having at least a little struggle on day 100+ (other than big packs of hounds) the game's not doing its job right. At least that's how I see where Klei wants to go with it.

As for the tutorial request, it really shouldn't be necessary. The game is made so that you have to think outside the box and use the crafting recipe sort of as your "guide" as to what you can do next. You're only instruction is not to starve, so you know that you're going to need food. Everything else you should discover on your own and learn from your mistakes (deaths). If you, as a player, need a reference to something or have a question you can always refer back to the forums if you want, but the devs have stated that it is absolutely not necessary to do so in order to learn how to play DS. What makes the game fun and rewarding (again, my opinion) is when you accomplish the things you failed to do so before, or when you kill the thing that killed you before (treeguard, tentacle, etc). It's very empowering knowing you had so much trouble with it before and then now it's like nothing.

I like minecraft, too, don't get me wrong (redstone is f&$%ing genius), but I play this whenever I'm feeling a challenging survival game and then play minecraft whenever I just want to build stuff. Minecraft's survival aspect is just so miniscule compared to DS's now lol.

EDIT: wow I got ninja'd like 4 times there lol

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w00tyd00d    193

And please everybody, keep it civil! All opinions are welcome, even if you don't agree with them. All I ask is if you don't agree, don't attack. Lest I remind all y'all of these.

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leapster    18

Okay I'll start off saying I attempted to read this whole section but I didnt get through all the posts so my apologies if I double up some things prev said.

My thoughts on the difficulty stem from 2 large differences in the player base which have already been somewhat pointed out. You have the brand new fresh beginners and then you have the vets who have played and replayed and grown with the updates that have been released.

Myself personally, I am a HUGE gamer from all genres and was gifted this game by a friend. (loved it so much bought my brother and friends copies too - gotta support the devs :D )

Now I noticed some major things when we all first started playing.... initially I died .. a lot - I had no clue of the tentacles or how to find/get manure from beefalo originally until I came to the forum... I would start off - grab random items eat some stuff stab a few things and hope I didn't get killed at night by the hounds cause I had no clue how to fight them. So as an experienced gamer who just jumped right in it was actually somewhat difficult to figure out. Once I did get it figured out and the hang of it the first couple of play throughs to day 100 / 150 were extremely fun and still very challenging (I had a lot to explore and a huge base to build/setup - now know I could replant things to create a 'base')

My brother and friends had a similar experience adjusting to the game and first digging in. Now we come to the part where we have all gotten the hang of it and the challenge slowly starts to disappear and you get a good base and a strong feel for how to fight the monsters etc.

A key part to balancing the difficulty I believe would be a way to 'select' a difficulty mode if this could be possible - difficulty modes could potentially be based on: size of the world, amount of resources available, certain features that might or might not occur (such as sanity meter or winter when they are released) and maybe even an option to have shorter days and longer nights might make for a fun experience. (I have setup a trail of campfires to travel at night to various locations to not waste daylight running)

I think a feature that would possibly enable or disable some of the feature sets could really help the game from a "difficulty" standpoint and would be a nice way to help introduce beginners and also let vets amp their game up.

With extreme setting maybe you start getting hounds by night 5 or something and you start in winter with limited resources to gather so the vets that feel things might be too easy or have too much time to form a nice base and food supply really would have to stay on their toes.

As a programmer myself I am trying to look at this from a viewpoint that wouldn't take a lot of time from developing the game further or potentially turning away future users due to not being able to easily jump into the game. If some of the feature sets are modular (which would be my guess to some extent since they are loaded in different patches) it might be possible to make these different feature sets "toggle on/off" for a change in difficulty.

I'd be curious to know if people agree or disagree with this type of difficulty setup or if you feel that by being able to "create or customize" the world you are playing in takes away from part of the learning experience or excitement of the game.

As it stand early game 1-45 seems pretty solid for new players to adjust and get a good feel. 50-75 is moderate - if you aren't prepared this can be difficult but if you created a nice stockpile and a decent base it isn't very bad and gives you a lot of time to explore. 100+ personally starts to get more challenging but mostly due to masses of hounds and I have countered that with multiple firepits around my base so I can kite better.

Happy hunting!! Looking forward to hearing replies - please no flames/rage however I am more than happy to hear any sensible criticisms pro or con for my ideas.

PS after thought - just noticed the post about a tutorial and in a sense that might be too much "hand-holding" in a way but I would wonder if it would be possible to implement some form of maybe tips or hints system. Where if someone hasn't yet come in contact with a certain item like manure and they are already on day 10-15 then in most cases they just don't know where it comes from or how to get it (was my problem for awhile - i could never find the beefalo) maybe some bird that flies by or (i forgot his name) the guy that loads you into the game when you start new - could drop in and say some form of "hint" (Wilson there is a foul growing stench coming from the SE you should investigate that) and in a way it might lead a newer player to some pigs or beefalo manure.

Just quick thought.

Edited by leapster

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The most sane wall of text next to Mobius's walls.

The option to change the difficulty would be nice, though I won't look at it if it was implemented. You did a nice job of actually explaining without any "harsher than I could be comfortable with comments". Plus it would be nice for certain players *cough* Kuse82 *cough*. More reputation for you!

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Kuse82    10

The option to change the difficulty would be nice, though I won't look at it if it was implemented. You did a nice job of actually explaining without any "harsher than I could be comfortable with comments". Plus it would be nice for certain players *cough* Kuse82 *cough*. More reputation for you!

..............................

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Torasko    17

Game is just too hard for new players, and which is why it puts off new players from taking a chance on this game.

I was a new player once - believe it or not - and the difficulty was one of the first things that appealed to me. After a few deaths, I was able to last for longer than 60 days. Your argument is not valid, so speak for yourself.

I would like to see vast improvements to make it easier for newer players or those that are just not used to these kindof games. Maybe a grace period or a tutorial...options to customize ones experience in the game.

And by doing this you compromise the "uncompromising survival" that Klei Entertainment promised the game to be. Don't Starve shouldn't be a game that holds your hand and tells you what to do. It should be an experience about exploration, tension and challenge. Too little games have that nowadays in order to "appeal to a bigger audience" and that's exactly one of the things that's wrong with the current generation of video games.

I'm not saying make the game easy street I'm saying to streamline the experience for all audiences. Hardcore and Casual alike..otherwise you just won't make a decent profit and Minecraft will continue its reign of existence.

Get over yourself. Don't Starve and Minecraft both offer VERY different experiences, so please stop using Minecraft as the primary argument for your silly statements. Plus, learn something about commercial marketing and how the economy works before you start whining about profit. I'm pretty sure Klei Entertainment is very calculated when it comes to making a buck or two, and they don't need to compromise an excellent gaming experience in order to raise this. Edited by Torasko

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w00tyd00d    193

Plus it would be nice for certain players *cough* Kuse82 *cough*

Leave the "calling out" out of it too, please. The last thing I want is this thread to be a hate thread. Just because someone see's the game differently than you doesn't mean you have to be a jerk to them. Same goes both ways, don't feed the people who are giving you crap either, just leave well enough alone. Debating is much, much more different than bickering, and I know you all are mature enough to know the difference. Last time I will ask, please keep yours posts civil not just on this thread, but all threads. Be respectful towards your fellow gentleman in the name of science. :D

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leapster    18

Thank you for the positive comments. I apologize from the giant walls of text... I do believe essay writing and being thoroughly truly sunk in when I was going through schooling :) I just thought of something else I wanted to add after catching up on the comments and I can see where Kuse82 is coming from and also you Wilson.

Something that has changed in gaming and in a way I sort of blame it on the popularity of WoW (can I say that here or is there a no-naming rule?) What I mean is with that game growing to a player base of millions and also effectively expanding the age range of gamers a few (what I consider detrimental) problems have come from that game alone.

The player mentality that if it is too hard and we complain enough they will make it easier... This is the plague ruining some of modern gaming today. If you go back and are old enough think about playing console games... early Zelda or Final Fantasy (yes diff genre then this but I promise I will make my points) Those games you just purchased, you played it through, most people I know enjoyed them a lot and you never were in the mindset of - I'm stuck this is too hard... im going to write a letter to get them to change it and make it easier - it was never a thought... I'd stop playing or I'd think harder and figure my way through the puzzle or tough spot.

That self-motivated think for yourself attitude has in a sense died off in some of the younger generations and post-WoW gamer generation. It took down the difficulty of many many mmorpgs that were challenging and now most are now streamlined vs an old DAoC or EQ where you really had to explore and make friends to survive. (Yes this game is very different in genre but lets look at the mentality) The same can be said for the outcry at the ending of ME3 which bioware changed due to complaints (this should never happen people should accept the game for the game that the devs designed).

Gamers are somewhat accustomed to "easy" games now. They want to get it and beat it fast. To be the first to max cap or the first ones done and this game is far far far from that sort of game play. To play this game slowly and carefully is to fully experience it. But you will have that mindset of "win win win fast fast fast" migrating over only to be diluted by "what do I do now and where is my guideline or set of rules" - you broke their mold and now they either adapt or they don't continue playing (but we are focusing on how to keep them playing and gaining customers - I got to keep in mind Klei's bottom line with how we want the game to develop - they stop making money we stop receiving the awesome game/updates we have come to love.

However conversely to keep this game up and running you have to cater in a way to some of those players... they make up a HUGE % of the gaming community now and in order to make sales and keep things afloat sadly sometimes you gotta give them a bit of the "easy-mode" that is somewhat my theory behind my previous posting, with having options or a possible hint system that could be enabled/disabled to be that "guide" these types of players are used to.

Personally give me some old school Baldures(sp?) Gate or Mist and I will rack my brain for hours in pure pleasure of solving the puzzle. But that is my style and to be successful Klei has to work all the angles.

League of legends is a good example of a very very easy learning curve to enter the game and get playing but it has an extremely hard learning curve to play very well - That community has become very volatile because the game itself did not do a good job of helping the player base grow with the game and learn properly and you see a lot of angry users and dissent with the game even thought they are making a killing with it currently.

As I said I realize some of my points are on completely different genres of game types and game play but you gotta remember most of the gamers' mindsets won't change game to game. I hope this helps put some things into a bit more perspective when we think about too easy vs too hard and factor in the need for Klei to continue to grow the player base to keep this game up and running.

Thanks for reading. comments and replies always welcome.

while i was posting someone else made the post (sorry i couldn't work the quote maker lol) - Below is the short of what I was trying to get at and not to refute how they feel but to an extent you need to appeal to that bigger market and the difficulty of the game should be the attractive nature to play it but at the same time if you help new players out with the learning curve and they enjoy the game you have another user forever and this can easily roll over into other games created by Klei not just DS.

But below is truly one of the most difficult things to deal with in the gaming industry in today's society.

"Too little games have that nowadays in order to "appeal to a bigger audience" and that's exactly one of the things that's wrong with the current generation of video games."

Edited by leapster

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Torasko    17

I'm not sure about you guys but when 5 spider nests turn into queens in the same spot, it gets kinda difficult.

That's not part of the main difficulty of the game, that's just something that needs to be tweaked so it doesn't happen. The game is still in beta, so this is a perfect example of stuff that needs to be balanced.

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w00tyd00d    193

I'm not sure about you guys but when 5 spider nests turn into queens in the same spot, it gets kinda difficult.

Hahaha, I'm pretty sure that's a bug and that they're going to fix it Soon. ;) Although I think it's awesome to see a team of like a dozen pig men run in and have an epic battle with them lol. They usually lose....

EDIT: Dammit, ninja'd again. xD

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leapster    18

I had a jumping spider chase me to the pig hangout.. jump at me and land on pig king's head unable to move... Pig King now loves me because I made him his first ever spider hat w/ moving parts! ... somewhat thinking of lighting the spider on fire just to see what happens :D

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Valkama    10

That's not part of the main difficulty of the game, that's just something that needs to be tweaked so it doesn't happen. The game is still in beta, so this is a perfect example of stuff that needs to be balanced.

I actually find it rather fun, it gives me something to do late in the game.

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w00tyd00d    193

I had a jumping spider chase me to the pig hangout.. jump at me and land on pig king's head unable to move... Pig King now loves me because I made him his first ever spider hat w/ moving parts! ... somewhat thinking of lighting the spider on fire just to see what happens :D

LOL!

(ten characters)

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Dr.Cox    10

Heres a little solution for those who considers the game harder.

Go to Maxwell. [Aka the developers.]

Tell him to add food spoilation.

Problem solved.

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Moonphos    20

This is my feedback on the topic, only just reading the OP.

-

For players whom are more used to this type of gaming, whether Survival or Rogue-like (DS is a mix of both), its easily understandable after a couple of deaths. Genre-experienced players will likely to understand basic progression and prepare themselves (dying to Hound Assault, Tentacles, or Spiders) or take better precautions (dying to Hunger, Light Source, or Resources problem) for the next game. It's like FTL and BoI, you'll know what to do and what not to do after choosing different options to explore.

Inexperienced, newbie players will probably find the starting game hard. They will die more often at the beginning, but that's part of their learning process. Once they understand the way to succeed like experienced/veteran players, they should have little to no problem handling the DS world.

Noobies on the other hand... Well, they probably need to be spoon-fed/hand-held, just like any other games out there in the world. Or they'll rage-quit and QQ in the forum, like any other games out there.

-

Regarding the game itself, it's incredibly easy and dull at its current stage. Food is plentiful in the world so Starvation is not too much of a problem. Danger is... Mostly... limited to venturing out to explore the land. There's also a lack of goal (Story-mode type of goal), so there's little that a player can do once he/she has mastered survival.

The things that is available to do currently is limited to:

- Exploring the Map

- Trying out all the items available in the game

- Trying out all the characters and their unique traits

- Fortifying the base of operation

Further advance stuff is limited to:

- Locating the ultimate "Sweet Spot" for and against all kinds of attacks

- Items combo that works excellent in conjunction

- Beautifying the base of operation without compromising defense

- Self-created goals

After that, replayability simply dies. I personally haven't tried out Tooth Trap, Fire Dart and Spider Queen. Met a few Spider Warriors before I felt burned out, although I couldn't tell if they were pre- or post-nerfed ones, since I was working when I saw the hot-fix topic.

-

So, I feel that Early-Game (as well as Beginners play) is reasonably difficult, but Mid-Game is too easy.

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