Balance: dragoon heart for (almost) every obsidian item?

[hyiltiz]

I don't recall it, but it seems some of the latest releases changed the recipe for obsidian based items (mostly tools). It really doesn't make a lot of sense to always require a dragoon heart, which has a fairly small drop rate (even smaller than the tam-o-shanter!), to upgrade a tool you already had, while still requiring a resource already pretty hard to come by (obsidian).

Obsidian is very hard to find, let alone trying to stockpile; farming it requires lots of other resources. If you want to mine, then you need TONS of explosives; if you get by trawl net, then you need significant amount of them, which needs lots of rope (tent also requires 3 rope, and you can sleep, become invincible, get lots of HP and sanity, and use lots of times); if you get it from the lava spit of dragoons, given you have dragoon farm (late game!), you need lots of ice.

Then, why require the dragoon heart? It is obviously encouraging a tons of dragoon dens so you get both of the resources. Reminds me of the purple gem. But we used purple gem sparingly, and it could do marvelous jobs; teleporting DEERCLOPS around.

[NoQuitting]

Another way to get Obsidian is to use ice on the lava pools. Also there is so many Dragoons it is easy to get them because you get to kill a lot of dragoons. Just get used to putting monster meat in a crock pot recipe so you can take advantage of all that monster meat you will be collecting. Also you can build more dragoon dens to get more dragoons. If you don't care about your world's sustainability you can just take a hammer to all the dragoon dens and make whatever you want.

[stl1234]

Ice is fairly easy to obtain. Which makes obsidian fairly easy to obtain during dry season. I got half a stack of obsidian in the last dry season, and I don't exactly have a good setup for it (about half of the dragoon eggs fall into to the ocean). Obsidian is no grass, but isn't exactly hard to obtain either.

How many dragoon hearts you have is a function of  how many you kill. How many you kill depends on how do you kill them. Dragoon are hostile to anything, so it is relatively straightforward to set up a dragoon farm, as long as you pay attention to keep flammables far away.

These tools are very good, I think they have the right kind of balance between how hard is it to obtain them vs. how much help they are.

40 minutes ago, NoQuitting said:

a hammer to all the dragoon dens

Dragoon dens cannot be hammered down, they require explosives to demolish.

[hyiltiz]

I am going to explode the **** out of them, then get all the loot then jump to the next world.

[TeoSS69]

Some things :

1. Obsidian can be also gotten from Trawling in Dry Season. Ice + Volcano Staff also gives you more Obsidian than you used to make the Staff. Wickerbottom's new book also spawns Lava Pools without the Dragoon Eggs.
2. The only useful item apart from the Conch and Stick is the Obsidian Spear (Winter heat source). Wildbores + MM from Dragoons make the other two tools, useless. So you're not gonna use that much Obsidian anyway.
3. There's this new plant in the game now.

[AnonymousKoala]

2 hours ago, TeoSS69 said:

Some things :

1. Obsidian can be also gotten from Trawling in Dry Season. Ice + Volcano Staff also gives you more Obsidian than you used to make the Staff. Wickerbottom's new book also spawns Lava Pools without the Dragoon Eggs.
2. The only useful item apart from the Conch and Stick is the Obsidian Spear (Winter heat source). Wildbores + MM from Dragoons make the other two tools, useless. So you're not gonna use that much Obsidian anyway.
3. There's this new plant in the game now.

That Dragoon farm Kreygasm

The obsidian tools are pretty much a luxury item.

9 hours ago, hyiltiz said:

I don't recall it, but it seems some of the latest releases changed the recipe for obsidian based items (mostly tools). It really doesn't make a lot of sense to always require a dragoon heart, which has a fairly small drop rate (even smaller than the tam-o-shanter!), to upgrade a tool you already had, while still requiring a resource already pretty hard to come by (obsidian).

Obsidian is very hard to find, let alone trying to stockpile; farming it requires lots of other resources. If you want to mine, then you need TONS of explosives; if you get by trawl net, then you need significant amount of them, which needs lots of rope (tent also requires 3 rope, and you can sleep, become invincible, get lots of HP and sanity, and use lots of times); if you get it from the lava spit of dragoons, given you have dragoon farm (late game!), you need lots of ice.

Then, why require the dragoon heart? It is obviously encouraging a tons of dragoon dens so you get both of the resources. Reminds me of the purple gem. But we used purple gem sparingly, and it could do marvelous jobs; teleporting DEERCLOPS around.

People already mentioned how Obsidian is not that hard to come by, and the Tam O' and Dragoon Hearts really don't have such a small drop chance. a small chance is Krampus Sack, Butter, etc. 

[DeputyDeath]

5 hours ago, AnonymousKoala said:

People already mentioned how Obsidian is not that hard to come by, and the Tam O' and Dragoon Hearts really don't have such a small drop chance. a small chance is Krampus Sack, Butter, etc. 

Yeah, Tam is 25% chance. The reason why it feels low is because you'd have to wait (theoretically) 10 days in Winter get it.

Although my RNG obviously didn't listen to that because I had to wait 2 in game years to get a Tam o' Shanter, and I got it on the last day of the second winter after killing Mactusk every few days within a few seconds of him spawning. But on that same world, I got a krampus sack in my first summer after farming glommer for old bells. FML, right?

7 hours ago, TeoSS69 said:

1. The only useful item... is the Obsidian Spear (Winter heat source). 

The obsidian spear is also a good weapon to just carry around with you. It has a very good durability and can deal a ton of damage against groups of enemies, as well as being useful for fighting at night. Obviously, the ham bat has a higher durability and the cutlass supreme deals more pure damage, but the obsidian spear is the new golden machete equivalent, and that's great for people who like to fight on the move.

The machete is redundant because boars can cut down bamboo and vines now (finally), but the axe is still okay in my opinion. It can be good to carry it around when exploring in case you need some logs for a campfire.

[TeoSS69]

4 minutes ago, DeputyDeath said:

The obsidian spear is also a good weapon to just carry around with you.

It can be good to carry it around when exploring in case you need some logs for a campfire.

It's not that much worth it with Wolfgang and its damage isn't stable. Might be good with other characters though (better than Cutlass after 10 charges), haven't tested. That overheating is a ***** though.

Just keep 20 logs in that slot that you'd use for the Axe. Not that you need campfires after a while.

[DeputyDeath]

48 minutes ago, TeoSS69 said:

It's not that much worth it with Wolfgang and its damage isn't stable. Might be good with other characters though (better than Cutlass after 10 charges), haven't tested. That overheating is a ***** though.

Just keep 20 logs in that slot that you'd use for the Axe. Not that you need campfires after a while.

It's pretty good with Wolfgang. You can deal over 100 damage in mighty mode when the spear is charged, which is all you'll ever really need for standard enemies. I found it useful when using the slot machine for killing mosquitos and spiders. The overheating is only really a problem in dry season for me.

The reason I don't tend to carry a stack of logs is that I tend to use them all for flooring and chests, and use manure instead for fuel. Which is fine when you're roaming around your base but not so much when exploring.

Also, being able to craft boat repair kits on the go is handy, so having the axe available to cut down a few trees quickly is good. This was a life saver when I 'discovered' that a volcano bomb deals ~400 damage to your boat. I only had about 20 durability left, so I was pretty happy about having the axe.

[TeoSS69]

17 minutes ago, DeputyDeath said:

It's pretty good with Wolfgang.

It's actually pretty bad. The way damage is calculated  means that the extra damage from the charge is applied after Wolfgang's multiplier. So instead of doing 102 x 2 damage, Wolfgang does 51 x 2 + 51. 153 instead of 204. 154 is 17 damage more than a Cutlass and 9 more than a Morning Star. That translates to a couple less hits on a boss monster. 1 second less fight time is hardly worth burnt loot and overheating.

Cutting 10 medium palm trees at your base is the same as cutting 10 of them away from it. This way you're just doing it before hand. You'll return to your base for food, sooner than you will for logs. This way you'll also just need a normal flint axe instead of wasting obsidian.

[DeputyDeath]

9 minutes ago, TeoSS69 said:

It's actually pretty bad. The way damage is calculated  means that the extra damage from the charge is applied after Wolfgang's multiplier. So instead of doing 102 x 2 damage, Wolfgang does 51 x 2 + 51. 153 instead of 204. 154 is 17 damage more than a Cutlass and 9 more than a Morning Star. That translates to a couple less hits on a boss monster. 1 second less fight time is hardly worth burnt loot and overheating.

Cutting 10 medium palm trees at your base is the same as cutting 10 of them away from it. This way you're just doing it before hand. You'll return to your base for food, sooner than you will for logs. This way you'll also just need a normal flint axe instead of wasting obsidian.

Okay. Didn't know that about the spear regarding damage multipliers I've never had an issue with burnt loot though; I make it a priority to make sure something dies when not on fire if it drops decent loot.

On the thing about logs, I never have problem with food either when exploring because I stay in normal form until I battle something fairly strong, or just need to get rid of food for more storage. So I often spend entire seasons gathering resources out at sea without returning to base, hence it's just a better idea for me to carry an axe than return for logs.

[TeoSS69]

1 minute ago, DeputyDeath said:

hence it's just a better idea for me to carry an axe than return for logs.

Don't you also just find flint and twigs along the way?

[DeputyDeath]

1 minute ago, TeoSS69 said:

Don't you also just find flint and twigs along the way?

I'd rather just be able to cut down a fully grown tree in 6 swings. It's especially useful if I arrive on an island just before night falls, because it means I don't have to waste resources on a torch when I'll be making a campfire to cook food later anyway.

However, I usually stick with flint or golden axes with a group of friendly pigs when I'm at base.

[TeoSS69]

Just now, DeputyDeath said:

I'd rather just be able to cut down a fully grown tree in 6 swings. It's especially useful if I arrive on an island just before night falls, because it means I don't have to waste resources on a torch when I'll be making a campfire to cook food later anyway.

Fair enough. Whatever floats your boat.

[DeputyDeath]

15 minutes ago, TeoSS69 said:

Fair enough. Whatever floats your boat.

Pun intended?

[TeoSS69]

Just now, DeputyDeath said:

Pun intended?

You know it.

[Daggaroth]

I do find it a little strange that so many of the items that require Obsidian also require a Dragoon Heart. However, a lot of the Ancient recipes required Thulecite and Nightmare Fuel or Living Logs, so there is that comparison...

Obviously the Dragoon Den recipe makes sense, but I can't help but feel like it would be logical for the heart to be used for only the Obsidian Axe, Spear and Machete, because they all share the same heat charge ability. I'm a little unsure how a heart helps make a coconut bomb 

The hearts are not difficult to farm, but I can't help but feel that the reason they added the hearts to so many of the recipes to begin with was because Obsidian was so plentiful, and they wanted to prevent people from making loads of Volcanic items easily. However, Obsidian isn't as easy to get now, and the hearts just add to the frustration of trying to make the items now. I'm not really suggesting the recipes are unfairly difficult or anything, I just feel that the effort and time taken to get the items makes the item utility feel less worthwhile (like, how many players use the Thulecite Pick/Axe frequently). 

[AnonymousKoala]

8 minutes ago, Daggaroth said:

I do find it a little strange that so many of the items that require Obsidian also require a Dragoon Heart. However, a lot of the Ancient recipes required Thulecite and Nightmare Fuel or Living Logs, so there is that comparison...

Obviously the Dragoon Den recipe makes sense, but I can't help but feel like it would be logical for the heart to be used for only the Obsidian Axe, Spear and Machete, because they all share the same heat charge ability. I'm a little unsure how a heart helps make a coconut bomb 

The hearts are not difficult to farm, but I can't help but feel that the reason they added the hearts to so many of the recipes to begin with was because Obsidian was so plentiful, and they wanted to prevent people from making loads of Volcanic items easily. However, Obsidian isn't as easy to get now, and the hearts just add to the frustration of trying to make the items now. I'm not really suggesting the recipes are unfairly difficult or anything, I just feel that the effort and time taken to get the items makes the item utility feel less worthwhile (like, how many players use the Thulecite Pick/Axe frequently). 

Pick/Axe is such a good example. Like, its good and all, but when it comes to an unrenewable resource why would you make it that many times?

 

[Daggaroth]

Just now, AnonymousKoala said:

Pick/Axe is such a good example. Like, its good and all, but when it comes to an unrenewable resource why would you make it that many times?

 

Simply put, I really don't want more items to fall into the 'not remotely worth the effort' category, just because of a balancing oversight. High risk should equal high reward. I think it's tragic when items fall into that category, because it feels like the content becomes disregarded, a result that is bad for the developers (who put effort into making the item) and the players (that feel unsatisfied as a consequence)

[AnonymousKoala]

Just now, Daggaroth said:

Simply put, I really don't want more items to fall into the 'not remotely worth the effort' category, just because of a balancing oversight. High risk should equal high reward. I think it's tragic when items fall into that category, because it feels like the content becomes disregarded, a result that is bad for the developers (who put effort into making the item) and the players (that feel unsatisfied as a consequence)

*cough* sandbags.

Sandbags are unreliable as hell. Why do they even exist. 

[Daggaroth]

3 minutes ago, AnonymousKoala said:

Sandbags are unreliable as hell. Why do they even exist. 

Really? Since the Quacken update (I think) that fixed the puddles going through sandbags problem, they have been pretty good in my opinion. I always lay them out like this:

And I haven't had any flooding problems since. Plus, they make my jungle bases look a lot cooler  

Anyway, this thread is about obsidian and dragoon hearts, so we should probably stay on topic. I'm just saying there are items in the game that are less consequential than sandbags in my opinion. 

[AnonymousKoala]

9 hours ago, Daggaroth said:

Really? Since the Quacken update (I think) that fixed the puddles going through sandbags problem, they have been pretty good in my opinion. I always lay them out like this:

And I haven't had any flooding problems since. Plus, they make my jungle bases look a lot cooler  

Anyway, this thread is about obsidian and dragoon hearts, so we should probably stay on topic. I'm just saying there are items in the game that are less consequential than sandbags in my opinion. 

Yeah...No.

Sandbags are still horrible for me. 

[hyiltiz]

15 hours ago, DeputyDeath said:

The machete is redundant because boars can cut down bamboo and vines now (finally), but the axe is still okay in my opinion. It can be good to carry it around when exploring in case you need some logs for a campfire.

What is boars!?

 

12 hours ago, Daggaroth said:

Obviously the Dragoon Den recipe makes sense, but I can't help but feel like it would be logical for the heart to be used for only the Obsidian Axe, Spear and Machete, because they all share the same heat charge ability. I'm a little unsure how a heart helps make a coconut bomb 

Cocunut bombs have hearts; they are alive! IMHO, only the Obsidian Firepit is the most useful obsidian based item. Others have replacement items that could match the obsidian based ones when compared.

[DeputyDeath]

11 minutes ago, hyiltiz said:

What is boars?!?!

Wild boars are the pigs in Shipwrecked. When befriended (by giving them a piece of meat), you can take a swing at a tree to get them to start logging, or you can hit a vines bush/bamboo with a machete to get them to cut those down. They can also assist you in combat, and they're pretty damn strong due to their ability to kite; two of them took down a palm treeguard yesterday with no help from me.

[AnonymousKoala]

4 hours ago, DeputyDeath said:

Wild boars are the pigs in Shipwrecked. When befriended (by giving them a piece of meat), you can take a swing at a tree to get them to start logging, or you can hit a vines bush/bamboo with a machete to get them to cut those down. They can also assist you in combat, and they're pretty damn strong due to their ability to kite; two of them took down a palm treeguard yesterday with no help from me.

*bores.

Also they aggro when you're too close to them/stay for too long, which is why I consider them hostile in first place.