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debugman18

Up and Away: Redux (That means a rewrite.)

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debugman18    1122
18 minutes ago, MilleniumCount said:

Well, hello there!

Besides other responsibilities I would love to work again on U&A if I am allowed to.

Of course! Anybody who has done work for the mod, or desires to do work for the mod, is welcome to continue/start doing work for the mod.

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Mobbstar    14123

Compulsory motivational GIF

tim-gunn-slower.gif

I'll do what I can to support this. Which is not a lot, compared to everybody else... but surely I can do something, right?

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debugman18    1122

Well, as far as I can tell, these are the largest hurdles (not counting the refactoring of prefabs), ones that Wicker has solved previously:

Custom worldgen screen. I was able to do this without Wicker previously. Same goes for the main screen.

Custom world tiles. Actually, not specifically a Wicker thing, so this should continue to function.

Biome specific weather. Should be solvable with dummy entities. Save the current weather condition from each biome with the dummy entity, then use a biome-specific dummy to change the weather back and forth.

Whirlwinds teleporting the player. Should be solvable. Somehow.

Beanstalk climbing. Should be not only solvable, but easy.

Shopkeeper and his quests. Should be easily solvable.

That's all I can think of off of the top of my head.

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simplex    2619
On 13/03/2016 at 8:37 PM, debugman18 said:

In the long term, I'm refactoring the mod from the ground up, and unplugging Wicker from it.

 

Ouch. That's a bit extreme, isn't it?

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debugman18    1122
2 hours ago, simplex said:

 

Ouch. That's a bit extreme, isn't it?

It's not malicious. You've done more to bring Up and Away to life than I have.

I just don't understand Wicker well enough to manipulate it when the time inevitably comes that an update breaks it, be it DLC or multiplayer. It always does come. I'm not a terribly experienced programmer, and right now I don't think I have the time to learn all that I need to in order to patch Wicker.

I really, really want to see Up and Away do well. With multiplayer, with Shipwrecked, with whatever DLC Klei releases in the future.

I've tried to contact you, for what its worth. I don't like summoning you just to fix stuff. I know you have a job, and your own life, and Up and Away shouldn't feel like one as well. I want Up and Away to last, without banging my head against something I just don't understand. I have a lot on my plate in real life, so I want the time I spend on the mod to be fruitful, not frustrating.

Without you around to update it, Wicker won't always keep compatibility with the game. I don't have the capability to fix it, presently.

When I don't even hear "I'm just busy, I'll come by later" back from you, I can't count on you showing up and fixing things. You shouldn't have to be an on-call handyman for the mod, either.

I just want this mod to not be dead. Having read my explanation, is that really that extreme of a solution? Compared to the mod being completely dormant "until further notice"?

I want Wicker to be a part of Up and Away. I want you to be a part of Up and Away. However, without knowing when or how Klei will break something, Wicker is and has been a time-bomb for me. I've asked for help on the forums, and gotten some help. Which led right into more problems that I can't fix.

So, where do we stand?

Edited by debugman18
I a word.

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simplex    2619

@debugman18

I know it's not malicious. I was aiming for a lighthearted opener, but I do get your stance. Originally, wicker was meant as a "plug and play" framework that, while enabling complex mod behavior/structure with relatively simple mod code, wasn't too tightly bound to the mod itself, or even the game. In this original period, not only were mods using it fairly detachable from wicker, but game changes breaking wicker were rare and trivial to fix (by someone who knows how wicker's internals tick). The advent of DST changed things, since, by requiring wicker to become a compatibility layer between the mod and different games, the mod became strongly reliant on it to function, as wicker became reliant on the inner workings of DS and DST. Because of this, without someone to fix wicker when game changes break it, splitting U&A from wicker is not only understandable but a logical necessity; also, due to the level the mod had to become reliant on wicker in order to be cross-compatible with DS and DST, large scale refactoring (if not rewriting) of the mod would be required to make it standalone from wicker, resulting, as you put it, in a redux (since the more complex and ambitious features are unfeasible to reimplement without wicker).

 

Now, what I'd like to see is for U&A to continue its development, with wicker, maintaining DS (with or without RoG and SW) and DST compatibility. I say this not just because I wrote wicker and I believe U&A would be much better off with it, but because I think you seriously underestimate how much work it would take and how many mod features would have to be gutted in order to leave wicker behind. And as I mentioned, I'm fully aware this requires my active presence in developing and adjusting wicker to at least account for game updates.

 

What I want is to, indeed, be here providing support and further developing U&A. I know I set a bad precedent going AWOL twice, in particular the second time since it shortly succeeded a reunion I had mustered myself. Both times, I've fallen into the trap of thinking personal issues preventing me from dedicating my time to U&A would be quickly resolved, except they weren't and things snowballed to the point where I hadn't logged back in here for months. While I can't promise I'll always be available to work on U&A, especially since we don't know how long that will take and for how long new DLC and game updates will keep being released, I'll do my best to at least give status updates and provide basic support when I'm not able to properly invest myself here.

 

So, with that being said, I'm willing to jump back on board to fix what's broken and carry from there.

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debugman18    1122
4 hours ago, simplex said:

@debugman18

I know it's not malicious. I was aiming for a lighthearted opener, but I do get your stance. Originally, wicker was meant as a "plug and play" framework that, while enabling complex mod behavior/structure with relatively simple mod code, wasn't too tightly bound to the mod itself, or even the game. In this original period, not only were mods using it fairly detachable from wicker, but game changes breaking wicker were rare and trivial to fix (by someone who knows how wicker's internals tick). The advent of DST changed things, since, by requiring wicker to become a compatibility layer between the mod and different games, the mod became strongly reliant on it to function, as wicker became reliant on the inner workings of DS and DST. Because of this, without someone to fix wicker when game changes break it, splitting U&A from wicker is not only understandable but a logical necessity; also, due to the level the mod had to become reliant on wicker in order to be cross-compatible with DS and DST, large scale refactoring (if not rewriting) of the mod would be required to make it standalone from wicker, resulting, as you put it, in a redux (since the more complex and ambitious features are unfeasible to reimplement without wicker).

 

Now, what I'd like to see is for U&A to continue its development, with wicker, maintaining DS (with or without RoG and SW) and DST compatibility. I say this not just because I wrote wicker and I believe U&A would be much better off with it, but because I think you seriously underestimate how much work it would take and how many mod features would have to be gutted in order to leave wicker behind. And as I mentioned, I'm fully aware this requires my active presence in developing and adjusting wicker to at least account for game updates.

 

What I want is to, indeed, be here providing support and further developing U&A. I know I set a bad precedent going AWOL twice, in particular the second time since it shortly succeeded a reunion I had mustered myself. Both times, I've fallen into the trap of thinking personal issues preventing me from dedicating my time to U&A would be quickly resolved, except they weren't and things snowballed to the point where I hadn't logged back in here for months. While I can't promise I'll always be available to work on U&A, especially since we don't know how long that will take and for how long new DLC and game updates will keep being released, I'll do my best to at least give status updates and provide basic support when I'm not able to properly invest myself here.

 

So, with that being said, I'm willing to jump back on board to fix what's broken and carry from there.

Well, I'll keep the redux as a side project, just in case. **** happens, that's fine.

For now, though, we should move discussion to the new forum. We can do all sorts of fun things there.

Edited by debugman18
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Mobbstar    14123
5 hours ago, TheFlorifant said:

so i know this thread is two years old, but i would love to help again

I'm busy developing Island Adventures for DST, sorry.

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ImDaMisterL    21269
5 hours ago, Mobbstar said:

I'm busy developing Island Adventures for DST, sorry.

If you would pick this up after that, call me. I'm always ready for strings.

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debugman18    1122

No ETA for anything, and there won't be a rewrite. It is a buggy mess right now. I am making progress, however.

Annotation 2018-11-08 184030.jpg

Edited by debugman18
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debugman18    1122
25 minutes ago, MilleniumCount said:

  Hmmmmm?

Hmmmm?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=261980676

Mmmmm.

To expand on this, though, the mod isn't being rewritten. It's being developed again, however. With the help of Zarklord, the issues that existed within Wicker have been solved, so now I can start getting everything working with the newest updates (and eventually DST, but single-player is my only priority right now.) Currently, most things that worked before work again. I'm pushing relatively frequent updates to the steam workshop page (and here) in order to minimize the issues people may have with the mod in it's current state.

The mod is in need of artists/animators/writers again!

Edited by debugman18
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ArcticFox789    702

Wow this really unlocked some memories coming back on here! Must be all of about seven years since I was on the forums in general now, but nice to see at least some of you gave it another go, not sure how far along you all got with the redux mind, but it was too good a concept to have it just die first time out. 

If any of the old team see this by some coincidence - unlikely on a thread that's been dead for nearly a year but you never know, hope you guys are all doing well! Been a long old pandemic - to the point where I've ended up searching through forums I frequented aged like 13/14 - but this little nostalgia trip has really put a smile on my face (and reminded me just how cringe inducing I was as a teenager :D).

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