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werlpolf    64

When I read the messages about being against the new touchstones, then I get the following feeling of the 'old' motivation of the pro gamer: They want to kick the players out of the public PvP servers permanently by 'their' skills. These touchstones stands now on their way. Wildernes, which is really fitting for PvP and perma death, is not accepted, because they cry that these worlds are being raped as hell not realizing, that they actually raiding them most. Wilderness could simply be resetted differently. Its not a problem of surival or the new touchstones.

You guys must realize, that its different fighting in DST or in Starcraft or any egoshooting. Living 10 days on the world and running after 1 day guys is the poorest thing you can actually do in e-sports. 2nd worst: when the opponent got enough time to scale up the 'progamer' leaves the server. In other games leaving means loosing, but how can I explain this....?

Just make your own 'public' PvP server without touchstones. Klei does not develop for a minority, who freaks out when the game seems to be somehow easier. Everything has pros and cons. Actually it gets harder for the 'pros' when the killed people get ressurected again. PvE has not become easier with that. Besides, their were many ghosts, just sitting camping on the world. Now they ve given a chance to get alive again. This will take some of their 'grieferness' making him more deciding leaving the server or searching for a touchstone rather camping.

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t0panka    1,587

 

43 minutes ago, BeastNips said:

Sense of Ownership "Give us our game back" "We ALL find this too easy."

Klei took DS+ROG and put more players there, higher up few monsters HP and made actually few things even easier than in DS/ROG and with updates like these this seems to continiue. So the same challenge/survival is now done with 2-6 people and that makes challenge/survival trivial even for 2 not so experienced players. This is not good multiplayer game this is fast change of single player to make it somehow multiplayer. DST needs lot of tuning to be made for proper multiplayer experience because right now it is just "play DS with other people in world"

43 minutes ago, BeastNips said:

Sense of Entitlement "It's up to the game creator to make it challenging, not us"

Ehmm YES it is up to the game creator to make game enjoyable. If you start focusing on new players that are dying over and over to most basic and first feature of this game = dark = you wont have good game for anyone else. ALSO those new players will really quickly learn (if they actually care) some stuff and will end up being advanced/experienced players soon. Can you give me example of game where developers are focusing updates on new players because they for example cant use medkit in some FPS game? Or reload weapon? Or whatever else super basic feature of some game? And remember that DS/DST is uncompromising game but lately there have been lot of compromises made for DST :/

43 minutes ago, BeastNips said:

Direction of Challenge "It was already too easy and you've made it easier"

Again take DS+ROG = you need lets say 2 game years to have cool base, explore everything, get all best items, defeat all giants, etc. You are playing alone! Now lets take DST = basically same world and everything is the same but there is 6 people that can do stuff so from 2 game years is 2 seasons and everything is done, killed, explored, build. Also there is only 1 cave, 1 guardian, same amount of thulecite and other stuff that we had for 1 player we now have for 6 players :D So there wasn't any challenge to begin with in DST.

TTA should change this. New players dying to dark or starvation over and over that needs these updates wont be surviving year or more in game so TTA should be proper late game DLC for experienced players because you need experience to get trough 1-2 years. I am expecting A LOT from TTA for late game of DST since here late game begins after winter/spring

 

@werlpolf if you don't like PVP or you obviously didn't played it leave it be plz. Look at PVP servers ... there is LOT of people playing there and it is not minority at all + PVP is part of the game and it is kind of broken so developers should either delete it or make it work right? Same as if some other mode/option was broken right?

But true Klei does not need to develop for minority but updating hardest mode of game to make it more easier is little bit unlogical since there are those 2 modes for new players. It is like open Starcraft - set difficulty to hardcore and then write to Blizzard that "game is too hard change it plz" :/

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BeastNips    105
Quote

Klei took DS+ROG and put more players there, higher up few monsters HP and made actually few things even easier than in DS/ROG and with updates like these this seems to continiue. So the same challenge/survival is now done with 2-6 people and that makes challenge/survival trivial even for 2 not so experienced players. This is not good multiplayer game this is fast change of single player to make it somehow multiplayer. DST needs lot of tuning to be made for proper multiplayer experience because right now it is just "play DS with other people in world"

I think you're missing my point. You've gone so far in the game you can't remember when it used to be frighteningly difficult. It is still difficult for new players. Klei didn't make these changes for the fun of it; there are obviously a lot of newer players having issues with the game. The next part of this honestly just sounds like you don't enjoy the game, which is fine of course, but lots of people do so I don't think it should be changed because some people don't like it. 

Quote

Ehmm YES it is up to the game creator to make game enjoyable. If you start focusing on new players that are dying over and over to most basic and first feature of this game = dark = you wont have good game for anyone else. ALSO those new players will really quickly learn (if they actually care) some stuff and will end up being advanced/experienced players soon. Can you give me example of game where developers are focusing updates on new players because they for example cant use medkit in some FPS game? Or reload weapon? Or whatever else super basic feature of some game? And remember that DS/DST is uncompromising game but lately there have been lot of compromises made for DST :/

"Your job is to make an enjoyable game." to which a game creator replies with "For who?". "Make an enjoyable game" is far too broad of a brief, it's also not what I said. It's not Klei's job to make the game challenging for a certain group of people (what I said). I'm an advanced/experienced player and I still really enjoy the game; lots of people I play with are exactly the same. This isn't a subscription game where I expect to constantly get a new challenge, it's a one-off payment that happens to be multi-player. At some point I'm going to find this game too easy and get bored of it. You and I are already past the point where we will be affected by small changes being made to the earlier game to make it easier so they are largely irrelevant. If new players want to start topics saying "Just started playing don't start and I hate it because it's too easy." then I'll listen, but at the moment I don't think this point stands up to basic scrutiny. 

Quote

Again take DS+ROG = you need lets say 2 game years to have cool base, explore everything, get all best items, defeat all giants, etc. You are playing alone! Now lets take DST = basically same world and everything is the same but there is 6 people that can do stuff so from 2 game years is 2 seasons and everything is done, killed, explored, build. Also there is only 1 cave, 1 guardian, same amount of thulecite and other stuff that we had for 1 player we now have for 6 players :D So there wasn't any challenge to begin with in DST.

This is highly opinionated and speculative so I won't comment in regards to the community other than by saying this has repeatedly not been my experience. I'm frequently reaching the first summer with barely setting foot in caves for example; depends on the group/world etc. 

My general opinion of your post is that you either A) Don't like the game or B) Don't like the game anymore. That must be tough because it's probably my favourite game and I'd be pretty annoyed if I grew bored of it, but it's going to happen eventually. 

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werlpolf    64
14 minutes ago, t0panka said:

if you don't like PVP or you obviously didn't played it leave it be plz

I understand all of you guys. For me PVP is the only option playing, since in non-pvp you can burn and get away with it (When I play in non-pvp, then I play Willow). Else you would need mods like friendship...

The fighting in PvP is - saying it in your way - indeed broken. Its like luck, who lands the first hit and preasuming when the other opponent hits, because you gonna avoid it in order to attack right after. The ping / lantency / reaction time makes you need to concentrate in simply avoiding mechanics. Then their is the torch-strategy - a really painfull and long fight - I am thinking in giving rather up and joining another server, then really investing this time for that kind of 'fight'. This whole kiting and running needs a change! You must be able to deflect attacks and having different types of attacks and different types of weapons, which functions after the stone, scissor, paper principle. But when I try to understand you guys, I realize that DS is indeed not anymore a new game and still carries these primitive fight-mechanics. These are fine for singleplayer and PvE, but not for PvP! Winning, because someone don't know what movement prediction is and I am telling him during the fight and he still insists in killing me and in keeping fighting, is not a win for me. [wigfrid's cry emote]

 

Lastly, the touchstones are good, since it absorbs a hard fall of the player. I agree, that the game becomes easier with the bird flints and other stuff. Therefore I think it can be made more difficult during the living (touchstones makes easier after the living). Maybe getting harder food and consuming more food while running, chopping, mining. I even thought about a stamina system, thats prevent people to hunt eachother endlessly and a weight-system, which forces weaker people to drop some of their stuff to be able to run away from the big mighty wolfgang bandit....

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BeastNips    105
5 minutes ago, Kuirem said:

I have trouble making sense in those two. A game never belongs to its community it is the opposite. Now it is up to the game developper to listen to the community or not, whatever they chose there is always a risk to lose people from the community.

You say that " we are the worst people to steer the games direction because of how long we've played ", yes maybe but it does not mean that what old players say should be completely ignored as they often have a better insight than the new players and sometimes even than the developpers themselves (just look at some PvP competitive game where Devs had completely messed up the balance because they did not listen to their pro players)

The big problem here is just not making the game easier but completely destroying its identity. Don't Starve is a Survival Game, that's its core and those changes go against its core.

What Survival Game means? It is a game when you have to survive :-o. Yes I know I am a genius. Well the basic of surviving is that you absolutely do not want to die. To oppose that look at games like RPG where you can rez with a spell or a handful of Gold or FPS where you will get back into the battle after a few seconds. In a Survival, Death should have a higher price than that, perma-death is often chosen as an answer. For a multiplayer it can be a bit harsh so generally it is replace by just losing part of your progression.

Now I liked what they did with DST, when you die you lose a % of your health (that you can eventually recover) and you will also heavily drain the Sanity of other players. So there is a non-negligible price to pay for both you and your mates so that you really want to avoid death. But what with those change? Now you have 2 "free death", a sanity drain much less significant and it becomes ridiculously easy to restore lost health. Where is the incentive to avoid death when you can recover that easily?

If Klei does not want for DST to stay a survival game I am fine with it, with their talent I am sure they could make an awesome Harvest Moon multiplayer. They just need to decide and stop trying to make a game in such an unstable equilibrium on the border of Survival it will just end up in a mess. As I have already mentioned in my previous reply a simple solution could be to specialize the different game modes so players who want a multi survival can do it and players who just like the ambiance and want to build their base without worries can do it too.

Klei listens to us constantly which can be clearly seen in the dev-log. What Klei shouldn't allow us to do is steer the game, especially not concerning updates that largely only affect the early game. We're too experienced and have completely lost the perspective of a new player. PvP is something Klei has never pretended is working properly and they've stated they'll revisit it. The truth is that PvP is a small section of the community and not something that was ever a priority for Klei, so I don't think that comparison works.

Your survival game comments are great but I'm not sure what your point is. DST has evolved and it's an enjoyable experience for thousands of people. I'm sorry if it's moving away from what you think it should be but that happens. If these changes prove unpopular then fewer people will play the game and the devs will change them back I assume. If not, then you have to accept that the changes are popular with the majority of the community.

I don't think a game as unique as Don't Starve is running the risk of getting in a mess with what it's trying to be because it's so unique, however this is heavily based in future speculation so I'm not going to comment on that at length. In terms of gamemodes, I think you already have plenty options to make a challenging game including Wilderness which still has a (kind of) permadeath. 

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Ginosaji    84

with caves it makes 4 free revivals, but the cave touchstones have to be generated within natural spotlight areas near the cave exits to make them useful to begin with. because if you resurrect on a cave touchstone and respawn without anything to give light, charlie is going to end your fresh respawn very quickly. its not even possible to leave resources near the touchstone because you cant interact in the total darkness.

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11 hours ago, VexTheHex said:

 Not really feeling part of this update. I'm not sure easier revivals will help the game as the first winter, dragonfly (optional) and the ruins (optional) are the hardest content. After that, it's up to human error and by then you should probably have Life Giving Amulets. And winter isn't soo bad once you learn ice is god mode with a crock pot. I'd like to see end game content or harder challenges added into the game before we make it easier. 

If ice wouldn't work as filler, 90% of the players would starve in there first winter ^__^

That would be fun, please Klei. ^__^

I don't see why so many people dislike the "new" Touchstone mechanic, it is exactly the same as in DS and ROG and it is fair, the real problem in my opinion is the Telltale Heart.

3x Gras

1x Spider Gland

and some health points

That is a way bigger problem in my book than 2 Touchstones for every player, that recipe shouldn't even be able to revive someone with less than 10% of there max health, but maybe thats just me.

Good work with the touchstone Update Klei, it makes sense and works, please consider a change with the Telltale Heart.

Edited by HeilerderWelten
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JohaneBrote    253
24 minutes ago, HeilerderWelten said:

If ice wouldn't work as filler, 90% of the players would starve in there first winter ^__^

That would be fun, please Klei. ^__^

I don't see why so many people dislike the "new" Touchstone mechanic, it is exactly the same as in DS and ROG and it is fair, the real problem in my opinion is the Telltale Heart.

3x Gras

1x Spider Gland

and some health points

That is a way bigger problem in my book than 2 Touchstones for every player, that recipe shouldn't even be able to revive someone with less than 10% of there max health, but maybe thats just me.

Good work with the touchstone Update Klei, it makes sense and works , please consider a change with the Telltale Heart.

I agree with fellow Skull Knight here, Telltale Heart is probably the bigger issue. So how about if we keep the changes to Touchstones but also do away with the whole Telltale Heart thing altogether? I mean you'd get the 2 free revives like you do in DS (great for newbies dying to silly stuff), and after that just use what you were supposed to be using in the first place, effigies and amulets. 

Also, would it make sense if the Touchstones needed to be activated beforehand like in the base game? I mean people seem to agree that revival was pretty balanced in single player, would it be so bad if we tried to keep it as close to that as possible?

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ToNiO55    298
23 hours ago, ToNiO55 said:

Hi,

I don't know if I am alone in the case and if this is normal since this update,

but I think main menu of my game is either zoomed to 200% or he is stuck at a base resolution of 800x600

  Reveal hidden contents

160308084637141467.jpg

160308084638465028.jpg

someone have same thing or iam alone in finding this?

 

23 hours ago, Ipsquiggle said:

Oh yes, we adjusted the "max zoom" to account for larger resolution monitors.

Hi @Ipsquiggle,

do you think it's possible to set the zoom for larger resolution monitors.? or you going fixed the problem?

thx for your help

Edited by ToNiO55
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McLovinDST    41

Opinion from a fan.

Birds and flint: Just wow.

1 Touchstone per player: Incredible. Only gives good outcomes (less griefing, more chances to explore, etc.).

New booster shot recipe: I just have one thing to say... I feel like booster shots are now really too easy to craft. I think death penality is a perfect way to make the player aware of the dangers after beeing revived. On top of this, it is making less experienced players more carefull about their health. At the end of the day, I feel if we make booster shots too easy to craft, some player may exploit this new update by not making the diffrence between beeing dead of alive since beeing dead would almost bring no consequences to the player whatsoever.

Anyway, that's my onpinion. Keep up the good work Klei!

 

21 hours ago, Gingerbread said:

also my default backpack is always rabbit bpack for some reason even though i never make it. beforehand it was saving the last backpack i made from same computer and it was making same backpack in each game.. now it always makes rabbit bpack as default. i dont know why... i bought this rabbit bpack from market and now it always attempt to make this bpack instead of other one.

Same for me

Edited by McLovinDST
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Kaio17    89

• In Controller Inventory, you can now hold the Get Half button and press the Drop button to drop a single item from a stack

Happy to see that my bug report was read, sadly I kind gave up the game, nothing new, tired about hell summer, sad about do resets on cave to have some to do.

Praying for this beefalo stream..

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Gingerbread    324
5 hours ago, MenaAthena said:

Alright, let's compare how touchstones work in single player vs. survival mode with this new update.

Single player: You find a touch stone, activate it, and then when you die you're resurrected. Since there are two touchstones in each world, you essentially get two free revivals.

Survival: You die, find a touchstone, and haunt it to resurrect. Since there are two touch stones in each world, and each player can only use a touchstone once, each player essentially gets two free revivals.

Am I the only one here who doesn't see too much difference between the two? In both games the player gets two free revival items, it's only the number of players that's changed. It's seems to me that this update actually makes it on par with the original uncompromising survival game.

 

difference is u gotta activate touch stone. If you cannot activate in ds single play u will be dead forever.. you dont damn stay in ghost form in ds and float around till you find your touchstone. secondly for ds, touchstones resurrect you right away it would be winter, harder start, ds winters are harsher than dst winters, same for summer, so if you get ressed in summer or winter like that, if touchstone is damn far away and if u got no starter items in a chest right by touchstone you are as good as dead. for dst, u can float around as a ghost and wait till the season is suitable for you. than haunt it and get ressed. u died without finding touchstone? no worries. just float around and find ur touchstone. u died? no worries. someone can always make a heart for you. u need to recover hp? no worries booster shot is now even easier to craft..

To sum up, ds is damn hardcore compared to piece of cake dst survival mode.

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V2C    5,918
  • Fixed bug with Wolfgang's health loading incorrectly when traveling to and from Caves
  • Fixed layering issues with HUD popups when Pause Screen is open

 

View full update

 

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FatPraline    8
Just now, Clwnbaby said:

  Imagine when Deerclops first came out but with today's Together crowd.  Do you think he would be as tough as he is (he's not tough but for newer players he is)?  NO WAY.  And we were just learning how to play the game as it was being developed.  The current Together crowd would get rid of his insanity aura and take away the freeze attack.  He would be a joke giant in comparison. 

That's just a terrible presupposition.

Don't Starve Together is not Don't Starve.

All this talk about "our game", "we the veterans want our hard game back", "we were here since the beginning", is becoming, like I said, a bit cringe inducing. Klei does not owe you, me, or anyone else, anything. However, Klei has been and I believe they will continue to be amazing and I am sure they will listen to constructive criticism and not whining mumbo jumbo.

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Clwnbaby    938

@FatPraline See dude you're the problem, I did offer constructive criticism not whining mumbo jumbo.  I wrote one thing you implied something else.  And no its not a terribly presupposition.  If you pay any attention at all, which you clearly don't, you can see a clear and obvious pattern.  Today's crowd would TOTALLY nerf him into the ground.  And stating that the people who payed for the game, all of the games, and have provided klei with the feedback to make such a good and enjoyable game all the sudden don't matter because we're telling Klei "you're not making the same game anymore" is wrong then you clearly don't understand how feedback works.

 

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DwerBomb    6,103
34 minutes ago, Clwnbaby said:

 And for any veterans who were actually here at the beginning of Don't Starve and argue we're being unreasonable with our difficulty requests I say "Really?"  Imagine when Deerclops first came out but with today's Together crowd.  Do you think he would be as tough as he is (he's not tough but for newer players he is)?  NO WAY.  And we were just learning how to play the game as it was being developed.  The current Together crowd would get rid of his insanity aura and take away the freeze attack.  He would be a joke giant in comparison. 

I don't want to get into all this drama, but I just want you to notice that, when the deerclops first came out, he didn't have the freeze attack, which was added in RoG.

Maybe DST will get more challenging too, in the future. 

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VexTheHex    211
7 hours ago, HeilerderWelten said:

If ice wouldn't work as filler, 90% of the players would starve in there first winter ^__^

That would be fun, please Klei. ^__^

I don't see why so many people dislike the "new" Touchstone mechanic, it is exactly the same as in DS and ROG and it is fair, the real problem in my opinion is the Telltale Heart.

3x Gras

1x Spider Gland

and some health points

That is a way bigger problem in my book than 2 Touchstones for every player, that recipe shouldn't even be able to revive someone with less than 10% of there max health, but maybe thats just me.

Good work with the touchstone Update Klei, it makes sense and works, please consider a change with the Telltale Heart.

 Seeing as it's very rare to actually see people who knows the basics actually starve, I think Ice could really use a nerf. Didn't prepare for Winter? Oh it's fine, just use 3 ice and a monster meat for meatballs. Sounds like a healthy meal. 

 Deerclops spawning at random during Winter was also funner, you never knew what night he'd come to raid your base. Oh, and you could also end up with a 2nd surprise attack. Who cares they changed it that he wanders to destroy multiple bases when he spawns/disappears in a day's time. You basically just have the longest surviving guy/gal run away on the last day. Let Deerclops spawn near nothing. Bam. Done. Bearger works in similar fashion, always at the start of Fall and merely walking away from your base means he will spawn away from it and slowly wander back and forth. Deerclops needs to be feared though. 

 Life Giving Amulets are strong and make dying less scary. Telltale Hearts require someone to take a HP hit, be there for the revival, and also give the revived player a penalty. LGA negate all of that. Only downside is if you wind up where you don't want revived like the Ruins or Dragonfly. So making Touchstones and health penalties from revival less punishing, it basically makes the game as a whole easier. I'm not sure the game needs to be made easier when surviving through one year basically ='s you're set for life minus hounds or human error. And most changes to Deerclops and Touchstone have made it easier as whole. So surviving the first year has became less challenging. 

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TemporaryMan    1,412
6 hours ago, Hobgoblino said:

Meat effigy:

Single player: You lose 30 max health for each meat effigy in the world.

Survival: You have to spend 40 health (not permanent) to make it and 40 health (not permanent) to attune it. Any amount of players can use the same meat effigy. It doesn't cost 4 cooked meat either.

What?

(reads through recipes.lua)

Whaaaat?  When did that happen?  Vegetarian meat effigies... what's next, booster shots made from rot?

47 minutes ago, Clwnbaby said:

The current Together crowd would get rid of [Deerclops'] insanity aura and take away the freeze attack.  He would be a joke giant in comparison.  And that's my point.  Maybe Klei is different today than they were when they first developed the game or maybe the Don't Starve community is less experienced at actual gaming than the original Don't Starve community but this whole "everyone should always win" mentality is not the way you make a good SURVIVAL game as evidence by the their HIGHLY successful first survival game Don't Starve.

No sanity aura and no freeze attack sounds like a joke giant, all right.  It'd be almost like a Goose/Moose... that has an AoE attack so it can't be overwhelmed by groups of weak mobs... and is much more resistant to sleep darts.  And also stays awake all day and night.  And doesn't stop chasing to return to its nest.  And can trample trees and structures underfoot.  And deliberately smashes your camp.  Not that I think the Goose/Moose is a joke, mind you.  Except yes, yes I do.

I agree, the game does seem to be losing its loss condition.  If anyone wants DST without the possibility of losing, it's called Endless Mode.  I most recently died in Adventure Mode: went into a fight against clockworks with Maxwell and multiple logsuits, didn't think about the %age of my equipped armor because I had a spare, got killed by the burst of damage when it broke.  Lesson learned.  And that's the key: the consequences of dying in DS are severe enough that when it happens, you think about it carefully and make a plan of how to avoid it in the future.  I'm afraid with DST there's probably going to be people who don't take it seriously, don't try to learn any lessons from it and chalk it up as something that just happens every couple days.  And you know what?  That kind of complacency that drains on everyone else's efforts and resources is bad teamwork.  We need systems that encourage inexperienced players to learn and carry their weight in the team, and rewards them with a sense of accomplishment when they've done so.  Difficulty does that.  Being able to fetch their own reeds and spider glands for a booster shot without getting killed again in the process does that.  Getting everything handed to them without effort does not.

That said, I like the flint birds.  Not much you can do without flint.  Stalls everything for days before you eventually find a camp, a cave-in or somebody willing to share.

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