How Skins Could've Been "Innocent" and Trade Inn Discussion

[WillowCrocker]

1 minute ago, Gingerbread said:

If Klei really makes the items marketable, I will not be in the forums.. I will stop having Gingerbread Cookies servers too. I wish a good luck to Klei with new community they wanna build.

I will also sell my distinguished item whenever it is tradable. Good luck with that Klei.

I might be with you. I'm scared my dreams of one day having an Orphan Willow are crushed. Lol

[thegreatmanagement]

2 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

There is always a factor that will make something unfair. As I stated in a different discussion here, say I can only play 1 hours a day compared to someone who can play 8 hours a day. Suddenly I might not even get as many drops. Is that to be considered fair? Perhaps I'm comparing apples to oranges, but the both of them are still fruit. 

That's not really something unfair as much as it is a product of having played more than another person. The more you dedicate, the more you get. You are still getting skins for playing less, but you're only getting less skins than the other person. The bottom line is that you are still getting skins, but just at a lower amount than someone else. Not a lower chance. 

[leonseye]

5 minutes ago, Gingerbread said:

2 minutes ago, thegreatmanagement said:

That's not really something unfair as much as it is a product of having played more than another person. The more you dedicate, the more you get. You are still getting skins for playing less, but you're only getting less skins than the other person. The bottom line is that you are still getting skins, but just at a lower amount than someone else. Not a lower chance. 

The more money you dedicate, the more skins you get is unfair, although money generally is the result of time spent.

But dedicating more time to get more skins is not unfair...?

At no point does anybody have a lower chance than anyone else to get a skin through playing the game, so that's not even a real argument.

PS) Sorry format is so wonky, forums are not being kind to me for some reason.

[Zeklo]

3 minutes ago, thegreatmanagement said:

That's not really something unfair as much as it is a product of having played more than another person. The more you dedicate, the more you get. You are still getting skins for playing less, but you're only getting less skins than the other person. The bottom line is that you are still getting skins, but just at a lower amount than someone else. Not a lower chance. 

Can't we apply the "more you dedicate, the more you get" to money? I know my argument is rudimentary, but it has merit.

EDIT: Looks like me and leonseye have the same idea on this one.

[thegreatmanagement]

5 minutes ago, leonseye said:

The more money you dedicate, the more skins you get is unfair, although money generally is the result of time spent.

But dedicating more time to get more skins is not unfair...?

At no point does anybody have a lower chance than anyone else to get a skin through playing the game, so that's not even a real argument.

PS) Sorry format is so wonky, forums are not being kind to me for some reason.

But the thing is, we aren't supposed to dedicate money to games to enjoy them - we're supposed to dedicate time. That's how games work basically - we spend our time playing them and in return we get joy and satisfaction. Bringing money into this basically bypasses all of this and gives a shortcut to those lucky enough to afford it. If we wanted money (and large and dependable amounts of money for that matter) we wouldn't be playing DST - we would be working at jobs. Many people don't play the game just for the skins, they play it because they love this game inside and out. Exhu, me, and many many different people can also attest to this. 

4 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Can't we apply the "more you dedicate, the more you get" to money? I know my argument is rudimentary, but it has merit. 

Read above. 

[Sheauwn]

6 minutes ago, Gingerbread said:

6 minutes ago, Gingerbread said:

If Klei really makes the items marketable, I will not be in the forums.. I will stop having Gingerbread Cookies servers too. I wish a good luck to Klei with new community they wanna build.

I will also sell my distinguished item whenever it is tradable. Good luck with that Klei.

If Klei really makes the items marketable, I will not be in the forums.. I will stop having Gingerbread Cookies servers too. I wish a good luck to Klei with new community they wanna build.

I will also sell my distinguished item whenever it is tradable. Good luck with that Klei.

Don't you think that abandoning such a great game is too extreme? I understand that the market could fail, but it can also succeed.

The obvious fear here is that the market will cause items to be too expensive, which will probably happen at first, but keep in mind that the skins are what they are: skins. Its not like they are selling deerclops survival packages.

[Zeklo]

1 minute ago, thegreatmanagement said:

But the thing is, we aren't supposed to dedicate money to games to enjoy them - we're supposed to dedicate time. If we wanted money (and large and dependable amounts of money for that matter) we wouldn't be playing DST - we would be working at jobs. Many people don't play the game just for the skins, they play it because they love this game inside and out. Exhu, me, and many many different people can also attest to this. 

I agree, money shouldn't be involved in this, but alas it is. While you shouldn't need to dedicate money to enjoy DST you can. That is a viable options for those who want to, but that isn't the only way. You could also go the hard and narrow and hope for a good drop (like I am). Of course one option is quicker than the other, but money often has that effect. 

You say that you play the game not because of skins, but rather because you love the game. This is a whole 360 isn't it...? Then why does this matter to you in the first place? I don't mean to stab you in your side, but as someone who is constantly viewing the trading forums I am more than familiar with your inventory. Shouldn't someone like me who has nothing above spiffy be more concerned than you are...?

[leonseye]

11 minutes ago, thegreatmanagement said:

But the thing is, we aren't supposed to dedicate money to games to enjoy them - we're supposed to dedicate time. If we wanted money (and large and dependable amounts of money for that matter) we wouldn't be playing DST - we would be working at jobs. Many people don't play the game just for the skins, they play it because they love this game inside and out. Exhu, me, and many many different people can also attest to this. 

 

Read above. 

You don't have to dedicate money.  Nobody does.

All that you have to dedicate is time.  Money is being used as a convenience measure to bypass time.  Nobody has to do this.

You say that people aren't playing this game for skins (I'm certainly not), and yet you personally have stated that other people selling skins is directly effecting your enjoyment of the game:

26 minutes ago, thegreatmanagement said:

Wigfrid and her Guest of Honor still make me smile every time I just see her set because she is my favorite character, and we've had great memories together. For me, if someone else is jarred from enjoying this or something like this because of the simple reason they can't afford it, that's where I call absolute hogwash. 

This certainly makes it sound as though you feel that a person who isn't rocking a sweet Wigfrid GoH and Valk armor is somehow being subjected to a lesser gameplay experience due to their lack of rare skins for their favorite character.

But would you not be playing Wigfrid w/out her GoH?  Would DST itself be less fun?

I find it just very strange that several months back, we were all happily playing this game w/out any skins and all was well, and now that they've given us a pretty awesome bonus and are even giving us a way to bypass the TIME investment through money for those who wish to choose that route, we are acting like spoiled, entitled children.

...why?  The game is better than ever; why act like this?

[WillowCrocker]

1 minute ago, Zeklo said:

I agree, money shouldn't be involved in this, but alas it is. While you shouldn't need to dedicate money to enjoy DST you can. That is a viable options for those who want to, but that isn't the only way. You could also go the hard and narrow and hope for a good drop (like I am). Of course one option is quicker than the other, but money often has that effect. 

You say that you play the game not because of skins, but rather because you love the game. This is a whole 360 isn't it...? Then why does this matter to you in the first place? I don't mean to stab you in your side, but as someone who is constantly viewing the trading forums I am more than familiar with your inventory. Shouldn't someone like me who has nothing above spiffy be more concerned than you are...?

No offense, but you sort of are taking a stab at them. Their inventory doesn't really matter in this discussion...

[Sheauwn]

Just now, leonseye said:

You don't have to dedicate money.  Nobody does.

All that you have to dedicate is time.  Money is being used as a convenience measure to bypass time.  Nobody has to do this.

You say that people aren't playing this game for skins (I'm certainly not), and yet you personally have stated that other people selling skins is directly effecting your enjoyment of the game:

This certainly makes it sound as though you feel that a person who isn't rocking a sweet Wigfrid GoH and Valk armor is somehow being subjected to a lesser gameplay experience due to their lack of rare skins for their favorite character.

But would you not be playing Wigfrid w/out her GoH?  Would DST itself be less fun?

I find it just very strange that several months back, we were all happily playing this game w/out any skins and all was well, and now that they've given us a pretty awesome bonus and are even giving us a way to bypass the TIME investment through money for those who wish to choose that route, we are acting like spoiled, entitled children.

...why?  The game is better than ever; why act like this?

Any time an improvement to a character is added, people go nuts. If your character doesn't look the best, then you want it to look the best. Thrown in the possibly of money and bam, you get a line straight from Philip J. Fry. The skins have made people insane over them. Only the stable people can refrain from the addiction. I still look for skins I want, even though I have tons of better things to do.

[thegreatmanagement]

Just now, Zeklo said:

I agree, money shouldn't be involved in this, but alas it is. While you shouldn't need to dedicate money to enjoy DST you can. That is a viable options for those who want to, but that isn't the only way. You could also go the hard and narrow and hope for a good drop (like I am). Of course one option is quicker than the other, but money often has that effect. 

You say that you play the game not because of skins, but rather because you love the game. This is a whole 360 isn't it...? Then why does this matter to you in the first place? I don't mean to stab you in your side, but as someone who is constantly viewing the trading forums I am more than familiar with your inventory. Shouldn't someone like me who has nothing above spiffy be more concerned than you are...?

I agree with the money statement too. It's just, the only other way isn't a realistic way to accomplish your goals; it'd take an unreasonable amount of time for something that doesn't make up for the time spent. 

On the second part - yes I do like to trade in the forums. A lot. You raise a good point, if the prices rise I do look to benefit hugely from this. But the thing is, I don't care about money or making a monetary profit. I care about collecting the items this game has to offer because they, at least to me, help me enjoy the characters and the concept of the game a whole lot more. I love the Don't Starve art style and game - it's one of the most charming games I've ever had the joy to play, and the skins are a huge plus of creativity and imagination with it. In game the tab for your clothes is called "my collection" after all, not "my loot" I look for skins for the same reason everyone else does - just I have more from the work I've done trading (sorry to you by the way :/ I have terrible luck getting items too honestly - my stuff I got almost entirely from trades, which may not be possible to do in the near future) 

[Arcita]

1 hour ago, Akrone said:

Totally agree with @Weirdobob. I think Klei must should consider the fact about 'Marketable items'. Or this could be the beginning of the end. I really do not want to sound pessimistic or disrespect anyone, but I've seen many games fall thanks to the money. I really really loved the point that they were not marketable, and reading all this has been a big disappointment. For now Klei, is in your hands. When they are other people that set a price for the objects, is when no one can do anything. I really love DS/DST more than any game, not just the game, also the developers and the community, I've always said. Please consider some other way. I know my words can not change the plans that you have about the game. But please, just think of everything that could lead to this. As always, sorry for my bad English and I hope not to offend anyone with that comment. I just think, like everyone, that we do not want this community to become toxic and filled with people who do not care about the game, if not just for the money.

Hate to break it to you, but people already set prices. What the market will do is make it harder for people to shark newbies. At the moment, it's incredibly easy to take advantage of the legions of people who are unfamiliar with the general price of items. If they have the market available to them so that they can scope out what others are buying and selling their item for, then they can make informed decisions. The only other way I see this rectified is if Klei set up their own in-game trading system, but why go to that trouble when steam already has a nice, clean market set up?

Also, I'm incredibly disappointed to see people accuse Klei of doing this for monetary reasons. Doesn't their long record of integrity afford them the benefit of the doubt?

I do have some reservations myself. Currently you can trade several spiffy items for a distinguished, and sometimes even an elegant. Once the trade inn and steam market are opened up, I imagine the bridge between spiffy and higher tier items will be closed forever. The only way you'll be getting distinguished or elegant is if you're lucky or you pay money. I'm not really too fond of this future... I understand and agree that higher tier items should remain scarce, but I think it's imperative that this bridge between low and high tier not be closed. If you can find some way to do that, then I think trading will remain healthy. 

[Zeklo]

1 minute ago, thegreatmanagement said:

I agree with the money statement too. It's just, the only other way isn't a realistic way to accomplish your goals; it'd take an unreasonable amount of time for something that doesn't make up for the time spent. 

On the second part - yes I do like to trade in the forums. A lot. You raise a good point, if the prices rise I do look to benefit hugely from this. But the thing is, I don't care about money or making a monetary profit. I care about collecting the items this game has to offer because they, at least to me, help me enjoy the characters and the concept of the game a whole lot more. I love the Don't Starve art style and game - it's one of the most charming games I've ever had the joy to play, and the skins are a huge plus of creativity and imagination with it. In game the tab for your clothes is called "my collection" after all, not "my loot" I look for skins for the same reason everyone else does - just I have more from the work I've done trading (sorry to you by the way :/ I have terrible luck getting items too honestly - my stuff I got almost entirely from trades, which may not be possible to do in the near future) 

I don't have much else to say. That was a concluded my thoughts rather nicely. In the end we are all trying to look nice!

5 minutes ago, WillowCrocker said:

No offense, but you sort of are taking a stab at them. Their inventory doesn't really matter in this discussion...

Yes I know, but it was still prominent to the discussion even as a low blow.

[leonseye]

3 minutes ago, thegreatmanagement said:

I agree with the money statement too. It's just, the only other way isn't a realistic way to accomplish your goals; it'd take an unreasonable amount of time for something that doesn't make up for the time spent. 

On the second part - yes I do like to trade in the forums. A lot. You raise a good point, if the prices rise I do look to benefit hugely from this. But the thing is, I don't care about money or making a monetary profit. I care about collecting the items this game has to offer because they, at least to me, help me enjoy the characters and the concept of the game a whole lot more. I love the Don't Starve art style and game - it's one of the most charming games I've ever had the joy to play, and the skins are a huge plus of creativity and imagination with it. In game the tab for your clothes is called "my collection" after all, not "my loot" I look for skins for the same reason everyone else does - just I have more from the work I've done trading (sorry to you by the way :/ I have terrible luck getting items too honestly - my stuff I got almost entirely from trades, which may not be possible to do in the near future) 

So this is the real fear, then?

You are concerned that the very possibility of trading items for money will effect your ability to trade for items w/out using money?

Because you clearly have no issue w/ the "value" of items or capitalizing on said value, only that others might be able to get these valuable items for cash now and you'll be left out in the cold w/ the rest of us peasants who have nothing to offer in trade?

[thegreatmanagement]

6 minutes ago, leonseye said:

You say that people aren't playing this game for skins (I'm certainly not), and yet you personally have stated that other people selling skins is directly effecting your enjoyment of the game:

This certainly makes it sound as though you feel that a person who isn't rocking a sweet Wigfrid GoH and Valk armor is somehow being subjected to a lesser gameplay experience due to their lack of rare skins for their favorite character.

But would you not be playing Wigfrid w/out her GoH?  Would DST itself be less fun?

I find it just very strange that several months back, we were all happily playing this game w/out any skins and all was well, and now that they've given us a pretty awesome bonus and are even giving us a way to bypass the TIME investment through money for those who wish to choose that route, we are acting like spoiled, entitled children.

...why?  The game is better than ever; why act like this?

It's not that people selling make me upset - it's that good people who can't get what they want because they can't afford it is what the issue is I'm pointing out. I think that yes, there should be an inequality in the value of items still, however when it goes past a line of what's obtainable through practical means, that's a problem in my eyes. 

You really don't have to have a sweet GoH or a distinguished piece to enjoy the game, that's true. It is still in a vain way a plus though, that's why skins are typically referred to as "vanity items" in the gaming world. It makes us feel happier about something that we are still happy about. 

It's also not giving us a way to bypass the time investment through practical means - that's a business choice, not a player popular choice. I don't think it's being entitled to disagree with an implementation also. Are we not allowed to have a say in our own communities? 

[leonseye]

1 minute ago, thegreatmanagement said:

It's not that people selling make me upset - it's that good people who can't get what they want because they can't afford it is what the issue is I'm pointing out. I think that yes, there should be an inequality in the value of items still, however when it goes past a line of what's obtainable through practical means, that's a problem in my eyes. 

You really don't have to have a sweet GoH or a distinguished piece to enjoy the game, that's true. It is still in a vain way a plus though, that's why skins are typically referred to as "vanity items" in the gaming world. It makes us feel happier about something that we are still happy about. 

It's also not giving us a way to bypass the time investment through practical means - that's a business choice, not a player popular choice. I don't think it's being entitled to disagree with an implementation also. Are we not allowed to have a say in our own communities? 

I'm not sure where I said that anyone was not allowed to have a say.  I'm fairly certain I've only ever said the opposite, even after being told that my voice somehow shouldn't matter when compared to those who post more often than I do...

I don't understand why you don't see trading money for the time invested in trying to get a good drop as a "practical" means.  Is it impractical because you aren't working?  Personally, as somebody who has real time constraints due to work, I feel that it's a very practical means (in fact, I have to be up for work in about 2.5 hours, lol).  This is an extremely common practice, as many of us have to work and relate fully to trading money for time (...time is money, etc).

And yes, I understand that having sweet new gear is fun.  Otherwise, I wouldn't want it; I wouldn't have asked about that sexy Samurai Wigfrid outfit I've been coveting since it was teased as a concept.  I get that.

What I don't get is how opening up trading to players who have money (but not time or other "valuable" skins) is "unfair" to anyone.  

Is it more unfair than the current system where I don't have a ton of time to play the game and thus don't have access to a lot of skins, so I can basically NEVER have a shot at trading for a Wigfrid GoH?

And even then, I don't really mind not having a shot at that, because I know that if I just play the game, I still have a much better chance at coming across the items that I want than from trading, as my inventory is abysmal.

 

[thegreatmanagement]

5 minutes ago, leonseye said:

So this is the real fear, then?

You are concerned that the very possibility of trading items for money will effect your ability to trade for items w/out using money?

Because you clearly have no issue w/ the "value" of items or capitalizing on said value, only that others might be able to get these valuable items for cash now and you'll be left out in the cold w/ the rest of us peasants who have nothing to offer in trade?

It's a legitimate thing to fear, for one trading DST items is supposed to help move the DST items one player wants to another player, and vice versa. It's a mutually beneficial transaction for both people who both have the same interest - getting items they like in game. 

I don't like when money gets introduced though because that leads to the focus shifting away from the DST items and towards money. I couldn't care less if I can't trade my spiffies for elegants or distinguisheds anymore (other than I'm going to have a few spare items lying around) 

The thing is that this system is going to create two different kinds of transactions: one for lower items being sent back and forth, and then a hugely lucrative market at the top for the oligarchs who can afford to get those items on their dimes. That basically locks everyone out from participating who doesn't have already upper level items or money. 

[leonseye]

1 minute ago, thegreatmanagement said:

It's a legitimate thing to fear, for one trading DST items is supposed to help move the DST items one player wants to another player, and vice versa. It's a mutually beneficial transaction for both people who both have the same interest - getting items they like in game. 

I don't like when money gets introduced though because that leads to the focus shifting away from the DST items and towards money. I couldn't care less if I can't trade my spiffies for elegants or distinguisheds anymore (other than I'm going to have a few spare items lying around) 

The thing is that this system is going to create two different kinds of transactions: one for lower items being sent back and forth, and then a hugely lucrative market at the top for the oligarchs who can afford to get those items on their dimes. That basically locks everyone out from participating who doesn't have already upper level items or money. 

People who don't have upper level items are already locked out from participating.  Just look around in this trade forum; it's already the case.

Or are you going to be giving me a Valkyrie Armor for my 5 Lumberjack Shirts?

[thegreatmanagement]

2 minutes ago, leonseye said:

I'm not sure where I said that anyone was not allowed to have a say.  I'm fairly certain I've only ever said the opposite, even after being told that my voice somehow shouldn't matter when compared to those who post more often than I do...

I don't understand why you don't see trading money for the time invested in trying to get a good drop as a "practical" means.  Is it impractical because you aren't working?  Personally, as somebody who has real time constraints due to work, I feel that it's a very practical means (in fact, I have to be up for work in about 2.5 hours, lol).  This is an extremely common practice, as many of us have to work and relate fully to trading money for time (...time is money, etc).

And yes, I understand that having sweet new gear is fun.  Otherwise, I wouldn't want it; I wouldn't have asked about that sexy Samurai Wigfrid outfit I've been coveting since it was teased as a concept.  I get that.

What I don't get is how opening up trading to players who have money (but not time or other "valuable" skins) is "unfair" to anyone.  

Is it more unfair than the current system where I don't have a ton of time to play the game and thus don't have access to a lot of skins, so I can basically NEVER have a shot at trading for a Wigfrid GoH?

And even then, I don't really mind not having a shot at that, because I know that if I just play the game, I still have a much better chance at coming across the items that I want than from trading, as my inventory is abysmal.

 

It's unfair to the people who profit from this. Do they really deserve the money they'd get from you for selling you an exceedingly rare skin from a game? Especially in the case that the skin was meant to (originally) have no value in the first place? They did get it for free, and they didn't put much extra work into getting it. In any market, its equity is based not only upon the benefit of the people who make the trades, but whether or not they make it out of a fair way. Without this, you could argue that illegal markets should be legitimate because they make two sides happy. On the way, I also have to work in order to survive; a lot of people do (or will have to) 

The people who can't afford to get the skins they want (because like WeirdoBob said, it's flown away from their reach) will be the ones who sit there and feel bad. 

[ItsPizzaTime]

21 minutes ago, Arcita said:

Also, I'm incredibly disappointed to see people accuse Klei of doing this for monetary reasons. Doesn't their long record of integrity afford them the benefit of the doubt?

I do have some reservations myself. Currently you can trade several spiffy items for a distinguished, and sometimes even an elegant. Once the trade inn and steam market are opened up, I imagine the bridge between spiffy and higher tier items will be closed forever. The only way you'll be getting distinguished or elegant is if you're lucky or you pay money. I'm not really too fond of this future... I understand and agree that higher tier items should remain scarce, but I think it's imperative that this bridge between low and high tier not be closed. If you can find some way to do that, then I think trading will remain healthy. 

It's just the fact that this "solution" doesn't really help anything? Being only able to upgrade to spiffy really doesn't help the dupe situation because we're just going to end up with dupe spiffys in the long run, and we already have a somewhat stable economy in terms of what the general public accepts as a "good offer" so why are we using the steam market now?

I 100% agree with your view on the current situation, as I kinda stated our current trade economy between players is pretty solid in the fact that you CAN trade several spiffy for a distinguished and that the "bridge" between tiers will most certainly be divided.

I think if they're really going to go through with this they should add a small chance like 5% when trading up any tier that you get a distinguished or elegant instead.  Like if trading 9 common for a classy you hit the 5% and get a distinguished, and the same for classy and elegant.

[leonseye]

I've said time and again, an item is worth exactly what someone is willing to offer for it.  No more, no less.

Do they deserve the money they'd get if somebody feels the item they're selling is worth that amount of money?  Yeah, they do.

If they didn't, they wouldn't be able to sell it at all.  It's not the seller that determines value, after all.

[Sheauwn]

2 minutes ago, leonseye said:

People who don't have upper level items are already locked out from participating.  Just look around in this trade forum; it's already the case.

Or are you going to be giving me a Valkyrie Armor for my 5 Lumberjack Shirts?

That's a good point. The only way to get into the market is to #1 be lucky, or #2 buy in with a good amount of currency (other game currency). BTW, other game currency costs steam funds. I wonder what else could potentially cost steam funds?

[leonseye]

1 minute ago, Sheauwn said:

That's a good point. The only way to get into the market is to #1 be lucky, or #2 buy in with a good amount of currency (other game currency). BTW, other game currency costs steam funds. I wonder what else could potentially cost steam funds?

Exactly.  Right now, participation is limited to those who have currency in games that aren't even DST or skins that are considered desirable.  That is it.

But there are a SO MANY MORE people who have money than these 2 other forms of currency.  The argument seems to be that less people would be able to get cool items in the future, but the market is so incredibly niche right now, I don't feel that's even a possibility.

[thegreatmanagement]

4 minutes ago, leonseye said:

People who don't have upper level items are already locked out from participating.  Just look around in this trade forum; it's already the case.

Or are you going to be giving me a Valkyrie Armor for my 5 Lumberjack Shirts?

About what you said earlier that is too late to quote (sort of): that really is a true issue of inequaltiy, something that's beyond me to weigh in on because there wouldn't be a possible way to make that fair I can think of. I can't name a non-buying option that would help with that problem basically (sorry to hear that though :/) 

But the thing of that is that the reason why it's a locked issue isn't because of something related to the actual value of the items; its more of the system itself. I wouldn't make a trade of something of that nature because of how the skins were released: the common items first, (and a small number of them) and the valuable items later. This sets a system up for what we have now - the people who have already gotten all of the first released items only will want the upper items. That's perfectly logical, no one intended that. But the problem arises when everyone else jumped onto the "valuable item train" because of how profitable it was. That's where the issue you're pointing out is, not that your items can't be traded up. If the distinguisheds and elegants were released as the rest of the items were, this could be a very different story (like how skins were when they were first introduced - trading was broad and fluidly going both ways up and down) 

 

[thegreatmanagement]

6 minutes ago, leonseye said:

I've said time and again, an item is worth exactly what someone is willing to offer for it.  No more, no less.

Do they deserve the money they'd get if somebody feels the item they're selling is worth that amount of money?  Yeah, they do.

If they didn't, they wouldn't be able to sell it at all.  It's not the seller that determines value, after all.

The first statement, I agree with to all my heart I'm going to be honest. It's often one of the first things you see in many economics related books really. (from my experience) 

They do deserve the money in that sense as well - that I also agree with. 

But I don't think they deserve the ability to get that much from a product of their luck - people should be playing DST, not the lottery.