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Mikeadatrix

How Skins Could've Been "Innocent" and Trade Inn Discussion

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Exhu    161
13 minutes ago, leonseye said:

Rare skin drops are clearly intended to remain rare, that's why they are... y'know, rare.  And when you get one, whether through playing the game or trading, you can at least feel somewhat special for having one.

 

My first and only elegant drop was a Poop Bag. I didn't give a crap (pun totally intended) about that bag. I immediately started trying to trade it away.

My first distinguished drop was a Formal Body Shell. I never play WX. I didn't feel special at all, I was disappointed and have been trying to get rid of it since.

Case in point: rarity means nothing to me, I care more about whether or not it's an item I'd actually use. I would prefer a tuxedo glove drop over a Formal body shell drop any day

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leonseye    805
1 minute ago, Exhu said:

Several of these "six" people are regular posters who have been really active in the forums and actually a 6:1 ratio is a pretty big difference. Considering there probably aren't too many people who have even read through the thread and seen Joe's post, I'd say that's a pretty big reaction.

Considering that there are 4 people who liked his post, that ratio is very clearly not what you think it is.

And who cares how "active" they have been in forums?  One player is just as important as any other.  Having a loud mouth or being more talkative than others does not make your opinion any more important that another's.

Just as my penchant for posting frequently does not make my opinion more valid than anyone else's.

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Exhu    161
Just now, leonseye said:

Considering that there are 4 people who liked his post, that ratio is very clearly not what you think it is.

And who cares how "active" they have been in forums?  One player is just as important as any other.  Having a loud mouth or being more talkative than others does not make your opinion any more important that another's.

Just as my penchant for posting frequently does not make my opinion more valid than anyone else's.

Well if Klei is still how I'm hoping it is, they tend to listen to the people who speak up instead of just "liking" posts. It's called taking the time to spell out your stance on a matter and your reasoning behind it. I see a lot of people pointing out more valid reasons for why they are making a bad call rather than a good one.

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leonseye    805
10 minutes ago, Exhu said:

Well if Klei is still how I'm hoping it is, they tend to listen to the people who speak up instead of just "liking" posts. It's called taking the time to spell out your stance on a matter and your reasoning behind it. I see a lot of people pointing out more valid reasons for why they are making a bad call rather than a good one.

That is just absolutely silly.

I have 340ish more posts than you.  Does that mean that my words should carry 4x more gravity than yours?  Of course not, that's ludicrous.

This entire thread is basically just complaining that people value certain things moreso than others and that pseudo "prices" reflect that perceived value.

If people didn't feel they were worth that much, they wouldn't be paying that much.  But they are.  So this entire argument sorta falls flat on its face.

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Exhu    161

 

Just now, leonseye said:

This entire thread is basically just complaining that people value certain things moreso than others and that pseudo "prices" reflect that perceived value.

No, that's just your way of trying devalue how the rest of us feel. All you are doing is complaining about other people stating their stance on things. I'm done giving you my attention, I'll go back to actually making productive posts now.

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Zeklo    17,389

So basically you guys are not content with not being able to trade dupes into the rarest items...? And you're worried about it because if you don't have money you don't get cool items?

That's blasphemy.

You're right about that with the way it is now people with money have more access to them. Change it to how you say and guess what? People with more time have more access to them. Would that be anymore fair? Fair and unfair don't play a part in this. It isn't that black and white.

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leonseye    805
Just now, Exhu said:

 

No, that's just your way of trying devalue how the rest of us feel. All you are doing is complaining about other people stating their stance on things. I'm done giving you my attention, I'll go back to actually making productive posts now.

I haven't actually complained about anything.  At all.

I've only explained how a free market trade system works, which apparently is a foreign concept to some.

I'd feel a lot more sympathy if everybody didn't already have the exact same access to the exact same drops from the very start, but they did and still do.

The only reason for a trade system at all is just to help get these things more easily.  It does not bar anyone from anything.

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ItsPizzaTime    836
2 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

So basically you guys are not content with not being able to trade dupes into the rarest items...? And you're worried about it because if you don't have money you don't get cool items?

That's blasphemy.

You're right about that with the way it is now people with money have more access to them. Change it to how you say and guess what? People with more time have more access to them. Would that be anymore fair? Fair and unfair don't play a part in this. It isn't that black and white.

I don't think you read Joes post my friend. We are not getting the "rarest items" from trading up.

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Zeklo    17,389
Just now, ItsPizzaTime said:

I don't think you read Joes post my friend. We are not getting the "rarest items" from trading up.

What did I misunderstand? You can only trade up to spiffys, correct? Now people are complaining that instead of a bunch of common dupes they'll end up with spiffy dupes.

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Asparagus    9,108
3 hours ago, JoeW said:

Yeah, We have many of these same thoughts. When the Trade Inn is added, you will be able to trade 9 of an item for an item the next tier above it, up to Spiffy -- You will not be able to trade for distinguished or elegant items. Elegant and Distinguished items are meant to be rare and special and we aim to keep it that way. 

In addition to that, we will be turning on marketability for items so that you can choose to sell them on the steam market rather than use them to trade up through the Trade Inn. At first, some people are going to sell too high, and some people are going to sell too low, but then things will even out as the community decides what the items are worth to them. This will allow people to better understand the value of the items that they have and let's players have more choices for how they can get different items. 

1 minute ago, ItsPizzaTime said:

I don't think you read Joes post my friend. We are not getting the "rarest items" from trading up.

Thank you, I was making a post about this but you pretty much summed it up...

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Exhu    161
7 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

So basically you guys are not content with not being able to trade dupes into the rarest items...? And you're worried about it because if you don't have money you don't get cool items?

That's blasphemy.

You're right about that with the way it is now people with money have more access to them. Change it to how you say and guess what? People with more time have more access to them. Would that be anymore fair? Fair and unfair don't play a part in this. It isn't that black and white.

I think trading 20 commons/10 classies/5-10 spiffies (just an example) would be a pretty good amount for an elegant/distinguished item, which I am more than willing to trade (and was hoping this would be the sort of thing the Trade Inn would implement). Saying that "fair and unfair don't play a part in this" is absolutely stupid. Fairness should most definitely play a part in it. I have bills to pay, and even if I had extra money to spare, I wouldn't want to spend it on digital cosmetics for DST, I'd spend it on more important things. Having access to items that are supposed to be "rare" (and completely RANDOM) just cuz you have money in a game that wasn't even going for marketability IS unfair.

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ItsPizzaTime    836
Just now, Zeklo said:

What did I misunderstand? You can only trade up to spiffys, correct? Now people are complaining that instead of a bunch of common dupes they'll end up with spiffy dupes.

The fact that you think spiffys are rare is a good place to start out where you're wrong. Especially once this "trade-inn" hits, they'll be pretty much the same as a common in terms of rarity,

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leonseye    805
Just now, Zeklo said:

What did I misunderstand? You can only trade up to spiffys, correct? Now people are complaining that instead of a bunch of common dupes they'll end up with spiffy dupes.

I believe they are saying the entire thing is "worthless" because they won't be able to trade a bunch of their lower-tier dupes for Wigfrid GoH or other Elegant / Distinguished items.

And others are complaining because they don't feel that a Wigfrid GoH should ever be worth more than 1 other GoH, of say Wes or WX-78, etc, no matter how much more demand there is for some items as compared to others.

At least, that's how I understand it.

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leonseye    805
3 minutes ago, Exhu said:

I have bills to pay, and even if I had extra money to spare, I wouldn't want to spend it on digital cosmetics for DST, I'd spend it on more important things.

Then don't spend it on digital cosmetics.  Just play the game and get drops like the rest of us who aren't willing to pay for drops.

There is nothing unfair about this.  Do it the hard way for free, or do it the easy way by trading items of value.

You are not somehow entitled to the rarest of items in the game simply because other people have gotten them.

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Exhu    161

Just going to take a wild guess here and say that the people saying we are all just whining have all the items they already want in the game, and will be the people flooding the market with over priced "cosmetics".

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Zeklo    17,389
6 minutes ago, Exhu said:

I think trading 20 commons/10 classies/5-10 spiffies (just an example) would be a pretty good amount for an elegant/distinguished item, which I am more than willing to trade (and was hoping this would be the sort of thing the Trade Inn would implement). Saying that "fair and unfair don't play a part in this" is absolutely stupid. Fairness should most definitely play a part in it. I have bills to pay, and even if I had extra money to spare, I wouldn't want to spend it on digital cosmetics for DST, I'd spend it on more important things. Having access to items that are supposed to be "rare" just cuz you have money in a game that wasn't even going for marketability IS unfair.

I don't disagree, I'm just saying from my point I don't have the money to spend (nor would I... they are free after all) and I don't always have time to spend. To your "I have bills to pay" I could say "I have places to be things to do". Couldn't I claim the same just with a different spin? I don't have the time/money that others do so do I have a claim to saying it is unfair? I don't think it is fair, but that's just how some things go.

4 minutes ago, ItsPizzaTime said:

The fact that you think spiffys are rare is a good place to start out where you're wrong. Especially once this "trade-inn" hits, they'll be pretty much the same as a common in terms of rarity,

You misunderstand again. People are not happy that spiffy is the highest they can go with the trade inn. My comment was stating I think it is dumb that people expect to get the rarest items with this system (elegant & distinguished). That is what they want not how it is.

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leonseye    805
Just now, Exhu said:

Just going to take a wild guess here and say that the people saying we are all just whining have all the items they already want in the game, and will be the people flooding the market with over priced "cosmetics".

...all I have is about 6 lumberjack shirts and 1 brown skirt.  Oh, and a catcoon blue backpack skin.

I'm not going to be flooding anything.

I just recognize that there's nothing unfair about the system, even if I may want other cooler skins.  I also happen to know that I can just play the game and get them eventually, or not, and it's still fun for me.

The game is still a blast to play w/ my friends and fiance, and not having the coolest latest awesomest hair styles and outfits does not negate that fact in any way.  It's just a bonus, and THAT is what the skins system was supposed to be, imo.

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Akrone    70

Totally agree with @Weirdobob. I think Klei must should consider the fact about 'Marketable items'. Or this could be the beginning of the end. I really do not want to sound pessimistic or disrespect anyone, but I've seen many games fall thanks to the money. I really really loved the point that they were not marketable, and reading all this has been a big disappointment. For now Klei, is in your hands. When they are other people that set a price for the objects, is when no one can do anything. I really love DS/DST more than any game, not just the game, also the developers and the community, I've always said. Please consider some other way. I know my words can not change the plans that you have about the game. But please, just think of everything that could lead to this. As always, sorry for my bad English and I hope not to offend anyone with that comment. I just think, like everyone, that we do not want this community to become toxic and filled with people who do not care about the game, if not just for the money.

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TemporaryMan    1,472

At 9 commons to a classy and 9 classies / 81 commons to a spiffy, I can't help but think most classies and spiffies will be natural drops, not trade-inns.  They're not that rare.

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Zeklo    17,389
1 minute ago, Akrone said:

Totally agree with @Weirdobob. I think Klei must should consider the fact about 'Marketable items'. Or this could be the beginning of the end. I really do not want to sound pessimistic or disrespect anyone, but I've seen many games fall thanks to the money. I really really loved the point that they were not marketable, and reading all this has been a big disappointment. For now Klei, is in your hands. When they are other people that set a price for the objects, is when no one can do anything. I really love DS/DST more than any game, not just the game, also the developers and the community, I've always said. Please consider some other way. I know my words can not change the plans that you have about the game. But please, just think of everything that could lead to this. As always, sorry for my bad English and I hope not to offend anyone with that comment. I just think, like everyone, that we do not want this community to become toxic and filled with people who do not care about the game, if not just for the money.

I would say that games falling to money are ones which the things you buy actually affect the game. These are all vanity and cosmetics and don't even effect gameplay.

As for the toxic community part, I suppose that could be a possible outcome.

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Exhu    161
3 minutes ago, leonseye said:

and THAT is what the skins system was supposed to be, imo.

Ummm well making skins marketable would completely ruin it. I think you're arguing for the wrong side of the coin here.

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Gingerbread    324
27 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

So basically you guys are not content with not being able to trade dupes into the rarest items...? And you're worried about it because if you don't have money you don't get cool items?

That's blasphemy.

You're right about that with the way it is now people with money have more access to them. Change it to how you say and guess what? People with more time have more access to them. Would that be anymore fair? Fair and unfair don't play a part in this. It isn't that black and white.

well i am currently paying 2 DST money every month for my servers and reporting bugs about both gameplay and server problems after every update. What do u do to contribute to Klei other than having couple of elegant drops by some luck? So i would never pay even 2 bucks for any cosmetics. I would go buy a good looking knife but I would never ever pay a knife cosmetics for csgo. That is my preference. This is valid for any cosmetics for any game. With this play rate i am sure at some point i can get some elegant drops as well and currently i got distiguished item. So I can sell it for 100-200 bucks too. That is not the problem. Problem that I see is making a cosmetic more valuable than a base game is being greedy for a company in my opinion. I left minecraft because it is sold to microsoft back in the days. I like klei but he seems to make mistake for making them marketable. I am even OK not even allowing elegants and distinguished items to be traded via trade inn but i am also against making them marketable. I don't want to see a greedy company only thinks of himself but not the majority of the community who really contributed to them throughout beta stage with their 4500+ game hours (me, exhu and pizza time) and 30+ public servers for myself with caves...

Well exhu knows that I told her like maybe months ago that these drops are just cosmetics and i dont really understand why people are so keen to get good items.. I still don't understand why some people pay $500 for a skin that will not contribute to your gameplay. So I dont want this game to be turned into leave the game on for years to get a good drop and then sell it on market to get new games when there is steam discount.

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leonseye    805
4 minutes ago, Exhu said:

Ummm well making skins marketable would completely ruin it. I think you're arguing for the wrong side of the coin here.

You still haven't explained to me how this would effect the availability of these skins for free for everyone who is playing the game.

So no, I don't feel that it would "completely ruin" anything.  I still have the exact same chances of getting what I want whether they do this or not.

I just have less of a shot at BUYING something I wasn't going to pay for in the first place.  And heck, if I do get a duplicate of something of value that I liked, it will be worth more.

I'm not seeing the downside for me, personally.  Especially since I would have just been playing this game anyway.

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TemporaryMan    1,472
2 minutes ago, Akrone said:

I just think, like everyone, that we do not want this community to become toxic and filled with people who do not care about the game, if not just for the money.

Exactly.  Let's keep it how it is now, filled with people who hammer and burn our camps and mouth off at us, and traders who make bids of 9 commons and a classy for elegant items we didn't offer for sale in the first place.

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ItsPizzaTime    836
1 minute ago, Zeklo said:

You misunderstand again. People are not happy that spiffy is the highest they can go with the trade inn. My comment was stating I think it is dumb that people expect to get the rarest items with this system (elegant & distinguished). 

I just feel that this trade-inn isn't really solving anything. Sure I won't have as many commons as I once did, now I have all these spiffys. But, then what? Trade my spiffies for x money and hope that I have enough to get better things? I'm surely not going to wear a button shirt when I have a tux, and most others feel the same.. as for the market, this whole system is going to de-value everything below distinguished and raise the price of the rest. Especially now that the market will have actual prices and not just be based on keys.

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