How Skins Could've Been "Innocent" and Trade Inn Discussion

[leonseye]

1 hour ago, RalphKastro said:

just a bit envious of all the attention this got over all those threads discussing Summer and Old Bell. Maybe random cosmetic drops really are the actual future of video games and I'm just missing out.

Hehe, I would've assumed it wasn't the drops themselves, but the potentiality of real money being involved that stirred up the hornets' nest.

[leonseye]

Just some random quotes from the Trade forum today:

"Wendy GoH 10 key" - that's $25 

"Wilson GoH 7 key" - $17.50

"Woodia GoH 6 key" - $15

"Wolfang GoH 6 key" - $15

"He has 5 keys and wants a Wigfrid GoH. I hope he knows that thie GoH goes as high as 25 keys. " - that's ~$62.50 in US dollars, for those who are paying attention.

"I give you random marketable item and you place it on market for 7.5$, than i buy it so you get money that way. And then you trade me that  Distinguished Silk Loungewear." This was a very weird offer and i guess this guy was going to scam me by returning his item because of 1 day trade hold." - scammers be scamming still.

Just pointing out to those who are afraid of "overpriced items", they are already considered overpriced to some people.  The price fluctuation here ranges from $15-$60+ w/ no real idea of how much any of these items go for, other than hearsay.

And of course, scammers trying to scam any way that they can.

These are just a few reasons why the move to Steam Marketplace is happening and, I believe, a GOOD thing.

[Mikeadatrix]

16 minutes ago, leonseye said:

Just some random quotes from the Trade forum today:

"Wendy GoH 10 key" - that's $25 

"Wilson GoH 7 key" - $17.50

"Woodia GoH 6 key" - $15

"Wolfang GoH 6 key" - $15

"He has 5 keys and wants a Wigfrid GoH. I hope he knows that thie GoH goes as high as 25 keys. " - that's ~$62.50 in US dollars, for those who are paying attention.

"I give you random marketable item and you place it on market for 7.5$, than i buy it so you get money that way. And then you trade me that  Distinguished Silk Loungewear." This was a very weird offer and i guess this guy was going to scam me by returning his item because of 1 day trade hold." - scammers be scamming still.

Just pointing out to those who are afraid of "overpriced items", they are already considered overpriced to some people.  The price fluctuation here ranges from $15-$60+ w/ no real idea of how much any of these items go for, other than hearsay.

And of course, scammers trying to scam any way that they can.

These are just a few reasons why the move to Steam Marketplace is happening and, I believe, a GOOD thing.

I agree. There are upsides to it. I just really really really want unfair trades to stop. I took a warning point just to try to fight for equal rights for skins. . . . . I should probably lie down.

[MenaAthena]

1 minute ago, Mikeadatrix said:

I agree. There are upsides to it. I just really really really want unfair trades to stop. I took a warning point just to try to fight for equal rights for skins. . . . . I should probably lie down.

I think you took a warning point for being rude, not for skin rights.

[Mikeadatrix]

4 minutes ago, MenaAthena said:

I think you took a warning point for being rude, not for skin rights.

Mmmm I took the point for defending my post (this one). He was enforcing overpriced trades. Which is dumb in every sense. I'm gonna drop it now. 

[MenaAthena]

2 hours ago, Mikeadatrix said:

Mmmm I took the point for defending my post (this one). He was enforcing overpriced trades. Which is dumb in every sense. I'm gonna drop it now. 

*opens mouth to say something*

*thinks about it for a moment*

*closes mouth and shrugs*

[leonseye]

5 minutes ago, MenaAthena said:

*opens mouth to say something*

*thinks about it for a moment*

*closes mouth and shrugs*

Yeah, I know, he wasn't really doing that, from what I could tell.

Whatever.

[Mikeadatrix]

17 minutes ago, leonseye said:

Yeah, I know, he wasn't really doing that, from what I could tell.

Whatever.

Can we please drop it? 

[ImDaMisterL]

27 minutes ago, Mikeadatrix said:

Can we please drop it? 

Well, you did say that wanting "overpriced trades" was "dumb in every sense". It's kinda wrong to just say something like that and expect people not to reply back about it, I mean, you just insulted their opinion. (Even though I don't really think that's what they wanted...)

But you are right, quoting JoeW, "If you find that your post is more about another person and less about the original topic, the post is no longer constructive or helpful to the conversation."

Let's refrain from calling other's ideas "dumb", no matter how much you disagree with them, because in this case you could simply write down the reasons as to why what they want wouldn't be as benefitial as your or some other idea, and let's go back to giving suggestions for the benefit of this system and everyone using it, eh?

[Mikeadatrix]

13 minutes ago, ImDaMisterL said:

Well, you did say that wanting "overpriced trades" was "dumb in every sense". It's kinda wrong to just say something like that and expect people not to reply back about it, I mean, you just insulted their opinion. (Even though I don't really think that's what they wanted...)

But you are right, quoting JoeW, "If you find that your post is more about another person and less about the original topic, the post is no longer constructive or helpful to the conversation."

Let's refrain from calling other's ideas "dumb", no matter how much you disagree with them, because in this case you could simply write down the reasons as to why what they want wouldn't be as benefitial as your or some other idea, and let's go back to giving suggestions for the benefit of this system and everyone using it, eh?

I know that but tell me, someone saying "We don't need fair trades? All I care about is profit! 25 keys for my Wigfrig!"

Do you say, Sounds good keep scamming! or No sir thats wrong. Whatever. I don't care anymore. I'm just looking forward to tomorrow.

[WriteOff]

Bring on the market, i have 518 Items ready to rock and roll.

#gohardorgohome

 

[ImDaMisterL]

2 minutes ago, Mikeadatrix said:

I know that but tell me, someone saying "We don't need fair trades? All I care about is profit! 25 keys for my Wigfrig!"

Do you say, Sounds good keep scamming! or No sir thats wrong.

There are ways to say someone is wrong without the need to insult them and/or their idea.

[MenaAthena]

@ImDaMisterL, @Mikeadatrix, Shshshshshshhh... Sh. *crams cookies in both of your mouths*

Now, let's get back on topic.

[JoeW]

I would prefer not to need to lock this topic, it doesn't need to get personal to have a constructive conversation.

[The Letter W]

3 hours ago, leonseye said:

Just some random quotes from the Trade forum today:

"Wendy GoH 10 key" - that's $25 

"Wilson GoH 7 key" - $17.50

"Woodia GoH 6 key" - $15

"Wolfang GoH 6 key" - $15

"He has 5 keys and wants a Wigfrid GoH. I hope he knows that thie GoH goes as high as 25 keys. " - that's ~$62.50 in US dollars, for those who are paying attention.

"I give you random marketable item and you place it on market for 7.5$, than i buy it so you get money that way. And then you trade me that  Distinguished Silk Loungewear." This was a very weird offer and i guess this guy was going to scam me by returning his item because of 1 day trade hold." - scammers be scamming still.

Just pointing out to those who are afraid of "overpriced items", they are already considered overpriced to some people.  The price fluctuation here ranges from $15-$60+ w/ no real idea of how much any of these items go for, other than hearsay.

And of course, scammers trying to scam any way that they can.

These are just a few reasons why the move to Steam Marketplace is happening and, I believe, a GOOD thing.

Holy beard hairs that's insane. I'm definitely not seeing the downside to the marketplace move atm.

[leonseye]

11 minutes ago, The Letter W said:

Holy beard hairs that's insane. I'm definitely not seeing the downside to the marketplace move atm.

Isn't it, though?

I don't mind speaking objectively about the current situation, but I feel that actually LOOKING at what is happening RIGHT NOW in the trading ecosystem drives home the point far more eloquently than I ever could.

I fully understand the fears expressed thus far, but I also understand that those fears have already been realized for quite some time now.

People seem to be demonizing the marketplace w/out considering that the status quo is already a pretty terrible situation for many players.

[WriteOff]

Ive watched many fads rise and fall, marketability will indeed improve the current trade system and fund some extra $$$ for Klei.

on the flip side it will also attract scammers and such, scammers do not care what game an item is from, they only see value.
So as soon as this all goes live, you can expect an influx of at least 10% of dodgy people trying to scam anything with a marketable price tag on it, this theory is based on years of previous experiance and research into systems like this going into place

 

**EDIT** For all those worried about skins skyrocketing in value, for every skin thats sold klei gets a cut, im assuming this will be a 15% fee on market place. (will be either 10, 15 or 20%)
If this is the case, if you sell a skin for $25 wallet, Klei will receive roughly $3.70 purely in market fee, and steam will take its 5% on top aswell for market fee's on its market place.
$3.70 is almost the price of DS when its on a -75% discount.

Now imagine 20 skins sell roughly at this figure, Klei just ran in $74USD on market fee's... thats $74 they can pay to an employee to build a walking cane skin, and tomorrows $74 can go to finally making my white tophat dream come true.

Lets assume prices pump up to $50 each for GoH's, purely theory here not concluding any prices, just need a set figure for stats.
$50 per GoH and 50 sell per day! spitballing here but thats $225 daily for klei, that's steady income for future upgrades, more updates, faster support, for this game and future awesome releases.

 

Now imagine every single skin selling each day, accumulative fee's clocking up. so many people are so hell bent on what should and shouldnt that its bypassing the greatest perk of this, KLEI GETS PAID FOR ALL THE GREAT WORK THEY DO.
"Oh no we cant let skins skyrocket because i wont get the BP i desire" - tough titties, klei gives u drops free, its luck based, welcome to life.

TF2 key sales alone used to net thousands dailyback in the prime of trading as it was/is an accepted form on online steam currency.

Another example is CSGO which is now the most common currency type for online steam trading.
This is just 1 keys report im doing here, The Falchion Key.

Volume: 3,263 sold in the last 24 hours < im doing an undercut figure here as i cbf doing exact, but assuming each key sold to buyer @ 2.30, each seller gets $2, the 0.30c is fee's. each key is actually selling @ 2.50 atm to cover any random fee's im missing out on.
long story short 0.30cUSD multiplied by volume sold in 24h is $978.90, daily, JUST from falchion key sales.
There is about 8 or 9 key types also, along with an arsenal of weapons that fetch much much higher market fee's on bigger sell prices.

Stop beating on eachother and start showing the devs some damn respect, i for one will be happily be shuffling market fee's along to Klei

[VexTheHex]

2 hours ago, WriteOff said:

Bring on the market, i have 518 Items ready to rock and roll.

#gohardorgohome

 

 And that's why Tradeable or Market would of never been innocent. There would of always been people profiting off of the items in any steam trading system or marketing system. Even if all 518 were priced at 50 cents, that's still over 250 bucks. And trading itself was never innocent with people using keys and using idle account to help achieve such things. Nothing against the person I quoted either, just shows people could and can make profit off the DST items regardless of Marketable or Tradeable.

 

 At least the market will make Klei some money and hopefully give DST a longer future in return. And hey I finally got my first footwear drop the other night! Things aren't soo bad. <3

[WriteOff]

Are you saying profit is bad? I was buying all my skins from friends with the intent of building an entire collection of every single skin. feel free to find any thread, anywhere that i was attempting to sell my skins. You wont find any. i attempted to buy more, and trade out dupes for skins i had not yet obtained, but never tried to sell.

 

Please dont place me in the group of people that was daily trying to buy for nothing, only to sell it to a dedicated player for 500% more and ripping the ass out of the community as i sure as hell never done it.

Also profit is what has allowed to go continually do giveaways and such in our group for games and items forthe last several years, without profit from trading i simply could not have afforded it.

 

Klei turning on marketability has forced my hand, if i see a hype train about to leave the station, im going to get my rainbow afro wig, party platform shoes and rock out with my.. socks out until the hype train runs out of juice.

But only because Klei has switched on market.

[VexTheHex]

10 minutes ago, WriteOff said:

Are you saying profit is bad? I was buying all my skins from friends with the intent of building an entire collection of every single skin. feel free to find any thread, anywhere that i was attempting to sell my skins. You wont find any. i attempted to buy more, and trade out dupes for skins i had not yet obtained, but never tried to sell.

 

Please dont place me in the group of people that was daily trying to buy for nothing, only to sell it to a dedicated player for 500% more and ripping the ass out of the community as i sure as hell never done it.

Also profit is what has allowed to go continually do giveaways and such in our group for games and items forthe last several years, without profit from trading i simply could not have afforded it.

 

Klei turning on marketability has forced my hand, if i see a hype train about to leave the station, im going to get my rainbow afro wig, party platform shoes and rock out with my.. socks out until the hype train runs out of juice.

But only because Klei has switched on market.

 When the items become more about the profit than the items/game than yes it's a problem. But really most players will just be average players not looking for a way to profit. 518 repeats planned to be sold or 518 total now that the collection idea is dropped for profit? There's a big difference there. I have no problems with people collecting all the clothes as I'd love to eventually get them all.  I have no problem with people selling or trading the stuff they don't want either. I'm just saying and used your quote of the sheer number you plan on selling as an example that people can and had been using it for their own personal profit. With them adding the Market, people freaked people it'd become about the money. However, it already was with trading anyways. The only "innocent" method would of been an ingame style trading marketplace for = value. Common for Common or Elegant for Elegant. Then the the trade up thing could of existed as well. 

 

 But hey, Klei will profit from this. I'm cool with that. Rock on with your 518 items. 

[Mikeadatrix]

Tone it down a bit guys... Great comments but we need a little more calmness.

[leonseye]

1 hour ago, WriteOff said:

on the flip side it will also attract scammers and such, scammers do not care what game an item is from, they only see value.
So as soon as this all goes live, you can expect an influx of at least 10% of dodgy people trying to scam anything with a marketable price tag on it, this theory is based on years of previous experiance and research into systems like this going into place

I think it should be noted that there are already scammers w/in the system preying off of the unwary.

It should also be noted that while it's not impossible to scam someone through the marketplace, it becomes much harder as the trending prices are listed right there for you to see when making a trade, as well as not having to go through any of these obtuse hurdles that currently exist.

Someone puts up an item, you put up funds, you click okay and it is done.  It's quick and simple; no muss, no fuss.  It is not easy to trick somebody into thinking they are getting a more valuable item, as they can see right there what it normally goes for.

This is why you do not see people somehow paying $10 for a TF2 key when the price is ~$2.50.

12 minutes ago, VexTheHex said:

 When the items become more about the profit than the items/game than yes it's a problem.

Again, this has already happened.  Tradeability is being demonized as somehow being a cause to this, when it is truly a means to CURB the issue.

People are already selling these things for $50+.  I'm not sure how much more clearly I can say this.  It isn't about anything "becoming", it already IS.

What the trading ecosystem really needs is more transparency and a higher volume of items being traded to meet demands.  Right now, the supply is very low and demand is very high, and thus you have these insane prices.

Ease of use, transparency, and a currency that can actually be USED by every player are all extremely good reasons to move to the marketplace, and most players can recognize this.  If most players can recognize that trading what they don't need / want on the marketplace is just a smart and easy move, then there will be a higher supply and lower prices for all.

Certainly, there will likely be a period before that supply is at a level to drop prices for all of us (mainly due to the speed at which skins are acquired), but they WILL eventually drop.

[VexTheHex]

5 minutes ago, leonseye said:

Again, this has already happened.  Tradeability is being demonized as somehow being a cause to this, when it is truly a means to CURB the issue.

People are already selling these things for $50+.  I'm not sure how much more clearly I can say this.  It isn't about anything "becoming", it already IS.

What the trading ecosystem really needs is more transparency and a higher volume of items being traded to meet demands.  Right now, the supply is very low and demand is very high, and thus you have these insane prices.

Ease of use, transparency, and a currency that can actually be USED by every player are all extremely good reasons to move to the marketplace, and most players can recognize this.  If most players can recognize that trading what they don't need / want on the marketplace is just a smart and easy move, then there will be a higher supply and lower prices for all.

Certainly, there will likely be a period before that supply is at a level to drop prices for all of us (mainly due to the speed at which skins are acquired), but they WILL eventually drop.

 Ya, with the former post above I made it clearer that both ways (trade and market) create people playing or collecting the items for profit rather than experience. And like other market's the prices will start off very high (TF2 weapon skins crates for example) and then drop and stabilize. There will also be the person who doesn't pay attention or wants rid of their item and offers it much lower in which someone will buy it and possibly resell at the higher average price. Or skip with joy they scored a $1 GoH Wigfrid. 

 

 The people really disgusted with the market can also always form a group and work towards trading among each other as well. 

 

 Overall I support Klei making some extra cash and hopefully we can see DST and Don't Starve in general grow more. I'd love to see more late game mobs and tasks. :3

[WriteOff]

I was collecting non-marketable items with the intent on collection building, klei changed the system, im adapting.

518 items (non-marketable) for collection have turned into 518 items to potentially be traded inn or marketted due to Kleis decision to switch on marketability, also i feel the urge to regulary remind anyone reading that i did not participate in the usual methods of trading on forums, i sourced skins via my own networks, via my own deals, and 90% of them are long term friends.

evolution be evolving, and im here to survive.

 

Also @leonseye your referencing people sniping deals and sharking newbies for high tier items, paying them dirt in thier place.

Im talking about flat out scammers, "ill send this rise of the tomb raider key over after you send me those 4 elegants"
elegants are sent, person disappears, some poor kid has a very shitty day realising he just got burnt hard, lost 4 elegants and still doesnt own the latest tomb raider. its a daily thing, a constant struggle in our network. we have an entire ban database off steam that is used to reference who these people are.

ALSO (lol) @VexTheHex man take an economics class! you dont have to play a game, or be in a field to invest. real world we use brokers.
I have an automated service that sells gifts and some people consider me a broker as i can sell their stuff for them. I also invest in CSGO and i dont play that game either, i buy/sell many steam gifts of games that i would never play. Its just business. In this case i also play the heck out of DST and will continue to do so, i know dev's are watching all this, fairly sure they would be suspicious of how i got so many skins, sorry to inform everyone but NONE, not even one of my skins was sourced in a dodgy manner. all above board and sourced via friends @ pre-agreed prices, im not going to apologize for being resourceful though, i invested the time, and money into setting up deals with friends, and gifting several copies to friends with the pure intent of them giving me free drops, if i gave them the game free.

 

PS: I LOVE a good debate thread and this thread delivers!

[leonseye]

7 minutes ago, WriteOff said:

Also @leonseye your referencing people sniping deals and sharking newbies for high tier items, paying them dirt in thier place.

Im talking about flat out scammers, "ill send this rise of the tomb raider key over after you send me those 4 elegants"
elegants are sent, person disappears, some poor kid has a very shitty day realising he just got burnt hard, lost 4 elegants and still doesnt own the latest tomb raider. its a daily thing, a constant struggle in our network. we have an entire ban database off steam that is used to reference who these people are.

Actually, the example that I linked was of somebody that was trying to do exactly what you described here.  

It was a bit hard to follow, as it was just a snippet, but Trader 1 asked Trader 2 to post a marketable item and that Trader 1 would buy it for the price of Trader 2's skin.  Then Trader 1 was going to return the item he bought from Trader 2 during the 1 day Steam hold and take off w/ Trader 2's skin while not actually paying him anything.

But yes, you're right, it's not impossible to scam somebody even via the Marketplace, but it does become a bit harder, which was what I was saying.  In your example (if skins were tradeable items), most people would just say: "Why don't we just trade at the same time?" or "Why don't you just pay me X amount for the skin right now?"

It's easier to see a scam coming, though obviously some will still try to buck the system and prey on the hopeful.