GiddyGuy Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 1 hour ago, leonseye said: 1) The way we receive skins isn't changing. The magical gift fairy in the sky will still give you free random skins for playing the game. 1 hour ago, ImDaMisterL said: It's actually a hamster in a Rube Goldberg machine, but that's not really relevant to this discussion, is it? : P 1 hour ago, MenaAthena said: No, it's the sky present gods. I thought we went over this. Guys, guys, guys, guys, and ladies let's be honest it's obviously Maxwell trying to win our affection with nice clothing...and maybe giving us a break-up gift but I mean at least he's nice enough to give us a break-up gift amirite? ;w; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Developer ImDaMisterL Posted February 5, 2016 Developer Share Posted February 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, GiddyGuy said: Guys, guys, guys, guys, and ladies let's be honest it's obviously Maxwell trying to win our affection with nice clothing...and maybe giving us a break-up gift but I mean at least he's nice enough to give us a break-up gift amirite? ;w; I think we're getting a little bit off-topic here. Let's not de-rail this thread, it's a serious thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphKastro Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 2 hours ago, jbeetle said: Then I misread that angry person's post happens to the best of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeadatrix Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 26 minutes ago, ImDaMisterL said: I think we're getting a little bit off-topic here. Let's not de-rail this thread, it's a serious thing. We actually needed something light hearted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Developer ImDaMisterL Posted February 5, 2016 Developer Share Posted February 5, 2016 8 minutes ago, Mikeadatrix said: We actually needed something light hearted... Every thread needs that from time to time, but sometimes light-hearted things derail threads, so it was more just of a warning for us not to forget the main discussion at hand. And I have proof it's a hamster, @MenaAthena. Bet you weren't expecting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MenaAthena Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 1 minute ago, ImDaMisterL said: And I have proof it's a hamster, @MenaAthena. Bet you weren't expecting that. Lies. It doesn't fit with my previous assumption of sky present gods, so it can't be true. #scientistlogicftw Just to stay on topic, even though I haven't read the whole thread, I personally don't have a problem with skins being marketable. It's a lot more accessible to people who do want to buy skins than getting keys for a game they may not play. There may be people trying to sell things at ridiculous prices at first, but when no one buys from them they'll have to lower the price or get nothing. Plus we can still get skins through free drops or trading. There's really not much to worry about unless someone manages to buy up everyone's skins, stop the supply of free drops, and then sell them back at us at inflated prices because we have no other means of obtaining them (a.k.a. a monopoly). I also remember glimpsing an idea for the Trade Inn where there's a small chance of getting an item of higher value than spiffy when you trade in, which I like. It keeps those rare items rare while also giving you another avenue of obtaining them. This is just how I see it though; I am still just a young, flawed human being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonseye Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 1 hour ago, MenaAthena said: Lies. It doesn't fit with my previous assumption of sky present gods, so it can't be true. #scientistlogicftw Just to stay on topic, even though I haven't read the whole thread, I personally don't have a problem with skins being marketable. It's a lot more accessible to people who do want to buy skins than getting keys for a game they may not play. There may be people trying to sell things at ridiculous prices at first, but when no one buys from them they'll have to lower the price or get nothing. Plus we can still get skins through free drops or trading. There's really not much to worry about unless someone manages to buy up everyone's skins, stop the supply of free drops, and then sell them back at us at inflated prices because we have no other means of obtaining them (a.k.a. a monopoly). I also remember glimpsing an idea for the Trade Inn where there's a small chance of getting an item of higher value than spiffy when you trade in, which I like. It keeps those rare items rare while also giving you another avenue of obtaining them. This is just how I see it though; I am still just a young, flawed human being. As young and flawed as you may be, I agree w/ what you've written here 100%. ; ) 2 hours ago, Mikeadatrix said: We actually needed something light hearted... No, we are being SERIOUS right now. >: | (that's my serious face) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidooop Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Did anyone even read my suggestion I made last night? Nobody really even replied to it outside of t0panka and Asparagus... :c Also, somebody said that TF2 keys can be traded for metal? Good luck with that nowadays... It's like 20 refined now due to inflation which would take you months to collect up for a single key! So if someone tells you "Want this Elegant? Give me 10 keys." They're basically saying to go spend a couple years of grinding items in TF2 to get the necessary keys OR spent $25 which is an absolutely ridiculous price! If those skins end up never being put in the Trade Inn and they get thrown on the Steam Market somewhere around $20 is where they'll most likely lock onto and then people like me will NEVER get them unless they nab the super rare 1/10,000 chance or whatever... and then even that seems dumb because that's like Klei just giving out free money like it's candy... Not only that... But that costs more than the game itself! Doesn't make sense to me TBH... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MenaAthena Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Fidooop said: If those skins end up never being put in the Trade Inn and they get thrown on the Steam Market somewhere around $20 is where they'll most likely lock onto and then people like me will NEVER get them unless they nab the super rare 1/10,000 chance or whatever... They'll only sell for $20-$25 if people buy them for $20-$25, and judging by the reaction of everyone here, not many people would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidooop Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, MenaAthena said: They'll only sell for $20-$25 if people buy them for $20-$25, and judging by the reaction of everyone here, not many people would. The people in this thread aren't even 5% of the entire DST community probably... The people here don't like spending money, sure... but what about those not hesitating to fork over 10 keys for skins? They'll be more than happy to pay $25 making it horrible for the rest of us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonseye Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, Fidooop said: The people in this thread aren't even 5% of the entire DST community probably... The people here don't like spending money, sure... but what about those not hesitating to fork over 10 keys for skins? They'll be more than happy to pay $25 making it horrible for the rest of us... Well, there are people paying that much right now via keys, so I agree that there are clearly people who don't mind forking over that much. However, I think the idea is that w/ MORE people putting skins up for money, those items won't be $25 anymore. Maybe they'll drop to $10-15 or even less, who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MenaAthena Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 12 minutes ago, Fidooop said: The people in this thread aren't even 5% of the entire DST community probably... The people here don't like spending money, sure... but what about those not hesitating to fork over 10 keys for skins? They'll be more than happy to pay $25 making it horrible for the rest of us... So... you're saying that if they became marketable it won't be much different from how it is now? What about marketability makes this worse, exactly? And how much of the community do those people make up? I'm asking a serious question here, as I have no clue myself. But even if they made up the majority it's not like you could never ever get rare skins. They're meant to be rare, and that's what they are. (Also I think people tend to be more hesitant in forking over the actual money than items that are worth the same amount of money that they got over time. Psychology is weird.) Leonseye makes a good point about the influx of items changing the prices too. They more common the rares are, the less rare they become, and thus less valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MenaAthena Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Oh, and competition plays a factor too. When 100 people are selling the same item for $20, a few of them will get the idea to lower the price so that people are more likely to buy from them, and then then more people will lower the prices even more to compete, and it'll go on like that until we reach a balance of what people are willing to pay and what people are willing to sell for. The miracle of free market! Sorry, I would have edited this onto my previous post, but I've been having trouble posting my edits on moble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatmanagement Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 10 hours ago, MenaAthena said: Oh, and competition plays a factor too. When 100 people are selling the same item for $20, a few of them will get the idea to lower the price so that people are more likely to buy from them, and then then more people will lower the prices even more to compete, and it'll go on like that until we reach a balance of what people are willing to pay and what people are willing to sell for. The miracle of free market! Sorry, I would have edited this onto my previous post, but I've been having trouble posting my edits on moble. This sounds really nice and all, and I can agree with this for one. Only thing is, in my opinion DST will have a very limited market still. Unlike TF2 or CS:GO, there aren't a very very large amount of players who play and actively get skins (correct me if I'm wrong) The issue about a limited market is that there will be limited sellers... And if it's so limited to the point that there will only be a few people selling a certain item, that's going to lead to a huge competition for that item. If there were only 5 sellers of a GoH but 25 buyers, that basically spells a huge huge shortage (which will cause a huge price increase)This basically depends on the drop rate numbers for that theory (drop rate, the rate of which people retain items versus selling them). It sounds really nice though, free markets and all. But free markets only work when they're perfectly competitive, not limited in sellers. Apart from that, I can agree with many of the points made so far. Especially about the part where markets would stop other games' items from being traded, good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werlpolf Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 On 2/4/2016 at 6:20 PM, thegreatmanagement said: 1. I don't think I get what you're saying because of how English sorry :/ either that or you didn't see my point. 2. If klei is giving us the gift card doesn't that mean the money comes from them? ... Its actually fine. Gift cards make some things more complicated either and that can be a kill. On 2/4/2016 at 6:20 PM, thegreatmanagement said: 6. that's not derogatory in any way? did you read what I said? And also maybe I have researched them? How do you think companies are in business if they don't collect a direct revenue? They get it from other sources... Also it's a fact that things that grow only grow because they are gaining from the people who use them... There's nothing rude about that. Being rude is calling someone ignorant and rude without fully getting what they're saying... 7. Thats opinion based so I'll just leave alone. If you disagree you disagree. 8. People act for the most part to benefit themselves. It's win lose, but there are different systems that can help the most parties possibly have a "win". That's all I'm saying; just because one party is happy doesn't mean others can't. I came to the idea with following the business model according the professional commercialization of open source software like RHEL and SLES. The clothes will be free available like now by getting them as gifts, but you would need to invest some time and work in getting them. If you like to get your desired clothes faster or with better features you can sign up for a fee to become a member (for a period of time). This will make it possible to test out and get a few of the best and newest clothes. Klei will introduce regurlarly a package of clothes for everyone and the membership gets some stuff of it for free in the very beginning of the introduction. Or even some clothes are exclusive for members The membership will also get more interesting, when you can lose the skins in some way or you can have a max. amount of clothes but the members can have more and so on. The losing of clothes will also have the effect, that the prices of the clothes will be decreased and stabilized very fast in the beginning. This will prevent unexperienced people from buying skins for relatively much money and they might regret it later. Currently, clothes will get high value and after some time - a year or so, they will not ve any worth anymore, if Klei doesn't do anything. As a member you don't pay for skins, but for the service in getting faster these clothes and so on and so on. This is actually a very benefecial business for both sides. The problem with it is, that the people providing the services, need to be experts or specialised like developers at open source companies like RedHat. They don't get paid for the software they are creating, but for the skills in creating reguraly good software(-packages) and for the support, when help is needed. When skins are traded, Klei can make an upper limit of prices. In a long run NO ONE want to spend $60 for a skin, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MenaAthena Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 4 hours ago, thegreatmanagement said: This sounds really nice and all, and I can agree with this for one. Only thing is, in my opinion DST will have a very limited market still. Unlike TF2 or CS:GO, there aren't a very very large amount of players who play and actively get skins (correct me if I'm wrong) The issue about a limited market is that there will be limited sellers... And if it's so limited to the point that there will only be a few people selling a certain item, that's going to lead to a huge competition for that item. If there were only 5 sellers of a GoH but 25 buyers, that basically spells a huge huge shortage (which will cause a huge price increase)This basically depends on the drop rate numbers for that theory (drop rate, the rate of which people retain items versus selling them). It sounds really nice though, free markets and all. But free markets only work when they're perfectly competitive, not limited in sellers. Apart from that, I can agree with many of the points made so far. Especially about the part where markets would stop other games' items from being traded, good point. I see your point, and that may actually be what happens at first, but the more people play the more drops there are. Say there's 2,000 people playing the game every day, and out of those people, 2%, or 40 of them get an item of distinguished or higher. That's 40 people a day, 280 a week, and 1,120 a month who either add to the supply or take away from the demand. Of course that number is influenced by the number of new players and new skins introduced, but I think you understand my point. Skins are not a finite resource, so the market will even out eventually. In fact, it may even become too saturated with skins later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatmanagement Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 6 hours ago, werlpolf said: Its actually fine. Gift cards make some things more complicated either and that can be a kill. I came to the idea with following the business model according the professional commercialization of open source software like RHEL and SLES. The clothes will be free available like now by getting them as gifts, but you would need to invest some time and work in getting them. If you like to get your desired clothes faster or with better features you can sign up for a fee to become a member (for a period of time). This will make it possible to test out and get a few of the best and newest clothes. Klei will introduce regurlarly a package of clothes for everyone and the membership gets some stuff of it for free in the very beginning of the introduction. Or even some clothes are exclusive for members The membership will also get more interesting, when you can lose the skins in some way or you can have a max. amount of clothes but the members can have more and so on. The losing of clothes will also have the effect, that the prices of the clothes will be decreased and stabilized very fast in the beginning. This will prevent unexperienced people from buying skins for relatively much money and they might regret it later. Currently, clothes will get high value and after some time - a year or so, they will not ve any worth anymore, if Klei doesn't do anything. As a member you don't pay for skins, but for the service in getting faster these clothes and so on and so on. This is actually a very benefecial business for both sides. The problem with it is, that the people providing the services, need to be experts or specialised like developers at open source companies like RedHat. They don't get paid for the software they are creating, but for the skills in creating reguraly good software(-packages) and for the support, when help is needed. When skins are traded, Klei can make an upper limit of prices. In a long run NO ONE want to spend $60 for a skin, I dont like this membership idea for a few reasons: 1. Membership vs nonmembership is creating a big inequality already - like you even say some skins for subscribers and those not available to others. That's somewhat unfair and very intensely monetized in my opinion, not to mention unfair because we already paid for the game... now we have to pay for a membership for small benefits? That sounds like a MMORPG sort of business model, which I don't prefer. 2. Why would you want to limit how many skins someone has and possibly make them lose skins? I don't think that would be a popular idea with anyone... you can't really collect clothes if there's a limit to what you have I don't see the logic in this 3. This market is very very restricted from the sound of your proposal... yes it would go to control some problems (like inflation, prices) but at the cost of our ability to get skins? No thanks. 3 hours ago, MenaAthena said: I see your point, and that may actually be what happens at first, but the more people play the more drops there are. Say there's 2,000 people playing the game every day, and out of those people, 2%, or 40 of them get an item of distinguished or higher. That's 40 people a day, 280 a week, and 1,120 a month who either add to the supply or take away from the demand. Of course that number is influenced by the number of new players and new skins introduced, but I think you understand my point. Skins are not a finite resource, so the market will even out eventually. In fact, it may even become too saturated with skins later on. That's true, though the only thing I can say is that the number of people will sell is heavily debated though. If they take away from demand, yes that does contribute. But sellers are what we need, because in the skins market from the looks of it buyers heavily outweigh sellers (I mean of course - it's easier to want an item than to have it since it's a really rare drop rate :P) So because of this this problem may last longer than a lot of people realize. But yes theoretically it will even out, but just how fast? Those all matter on the numbers (drop rate, what percentage of people will sell those items, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnmyrique Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 I guess the system of Trade Inn can be equal the Pokémon Wonder Trade System. I put some item, and them it will be traded by another random other player item. Sorry for my bad english, i'm not american :v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KazzaJay Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Although i don't play much DST nowadays (i currently much prefer SW), i found this discussion quite interesting and have read quite a lot of it and would like to participate(this being my first post to this forum ever). I have come up with what may be a better solution to both sides of the issue. Here are the current problems many people have an issue with. - That people can earn real world $$ by selling their skins, especially if they were farmed with multiple accounts. As a result, gaining rare skins you want becomes realistic only from real money purchases. - There is no way yet to effectively let the community value skins so that fair trades are possible. So this is my solution: In game Klei introduces their own marketplace and currency and turns off outside trading. How this works is that every player receives 1000 of their currency only, for fun ill call this currency Kredits. And within the game client there will be a free market where people freely trade their kredits for skins, Simple. What gives the currency any value is that there is a limited supply of it and its use as a medium for trading, kind of like how BitCoin works. This will allow the community (through supply/demand etc) to eventually find the rough value of each skin(by averaging the sale prices). So for example, you want to sell your white shirt, in the interface will be the highest bidding to sell and highest bidding to buy and you simply put your own offer depending on how fast you want to sell it. Now to prevent commons to becoming worthless klei will still need to implement their current system of trade-in(y'know that 9-1 thing) but other than that the market will manage itself. So what are the benefits of this system? This completely shuts down multiple account skin farmers which most legitimate players disapprove of. This is because there is no real world $$ to be made whether it is from keys or from hard cash, there is only cosmetic items to be gained. People will no longer worry of getting ripped off when trading items. It will also allow new players to the game to not start off completely naked and purchase a few cheap skin items to start off the game, perhaps improving their game play experience. Now, the potential problems with this system. Since everyone starts off with only 1000 kredits, it will take some time esp. for high rarity items such as elegants to have their prices balance. but in the end(like a few months time) it will probably match trade in ratios, 1 classy = 8 or so commons. and so on. My rough guess of prices will be in the range of 1000 for a spiffy, 100 for classy, 10 for commons etc. As to the question of whether elegants/GOHs are too rare (which keeps popping up on this thread), such a subjective question really has nothing to do with what im talkng about, so ill avoid it for now. Secondly, if you really want a rare item and cant afford it you cannot get it without some serious waiting. An appropriate solution would probably be to allow the purchase of kredits with real world $$ from klei, of maybe 5000 kredits for $5. Now this could be quite controversial, but think of it this way. If we leave the system as is or bring it to the steam market, we will be paying skin farmers that $5 or equivalent for that distinguished/elegant skin, but in this new system you will be giving it to klei who lets face it, deserves it much more. Now, there will need to be a few other things that needs to be sorted out. Like whether you should be allowed to trade directly with another person, but i dont want to make my post even longer than it is(and Good on you for getting this Far :)!). Since this is page 13/14 of this thread and many people probably wont see this, so if you do read this and find any glaring issues please post them, id like to read them. By the way,disclaimer, i'm only an IT student on break so really i have no reliable knowledge of economics, so dont be too harsh on me if this is such a really bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeadatrix Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 Welp we did it guys. Through hard work and grit and intellectual debates we got the FOUNDER of Kleis attention. He even quoted our post! This may have happened Friday but I've been thinking about what to say. What I gather is Steam Market won't be too bad, and the Trade Inn is gonna be alot better! A legit way to earn up to Distinguished, and a rare chance at Elegant. (slow clap) Klei you blew my mind and probably everyone who posted, debated, shared Brilliant ideas. This topic shows how a community can come together. I probably won't comment again til the update drops but I wanna let ALL of you know. I'm really proud and thrilled at what we all did. You guys are phenomonal. If I had a nickname it would probably be The Gatherer. Because I gathered the brightest minds on the Klei Forums. Again, super proud of what we did. Sincerely, A content Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphKastro Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 @Mikeadatrix now can we go back to gameplay discussions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeadatrix Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 42 minutes ago, RalphKastro said: @Mikeadatrix now can we go back to gameplay discussions? Yes my friend. May I say that Wilbur is quite an interesting character. Super enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonseye Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 47 minutes ago, RalphKastro said: @Mikeadatrix now can we go back to gameplay discussions? I wasn't aware that anything was stopping you from discussing gameplay before <.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Q_ Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 So if you want to make something like 9 common = 1 uncommon, 9 uncommon = 1 classy and so on, you will most likley die before you get to something marketable. People will destroy every economy they are given in any game, like all those MMO games, where you need to pay insane amounts of in game currency to get anything close to decent. Letting people set prices and manage the whole economy never works well, unless Klei wnats people to make the economy crappy just to start selling skins on the market, cause thats how it works in MMO games, MMO devs don't care about in game market prices that much, cause they sell all those items for real money, and then you just go and buy with real money or grind for ages. So far I got only 3 common items, drops are quite slow, doubt I will be able to get close to 9 anytime soon, unless I start running DST in the background for whole days. This whole thing with current ideas will be slow as hell and not worth the time and energy, if you would like just get some items to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphKastro Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 22 hours ago, leonseye said: I wasn't aware that anything was stopping you from discussing gameplay before <.< just a bit envious of all the attention this got over all those threads discussing Summer and Old Bell. Maybe random cosmetic drops really are the actual future of video games and I'm just missing out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.
Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.