How Skins Could've Been "Innocent" and Trade Inn Discussion

[leonseye]

2 hours ago, ailailou said:

That's kind of you, I appreciate it. I wish Klei would do the same for the entirety of their players. Do note, my previous post was hypothetical, the me wanting wolfgang that is, not the rest.

I was under the impression that Klei giving you these skins absolutely for free and allowing you to make the hypothetical $6 that you didn't have before was them being pretty helpful to their players.

But I guess you could take the other route and instead be upset that you can't trade it away for a $12 item because for some reason all of your "friends" are greedy money-grubbers.

To each their own, I suppose.

[wha]

Pardon me, but I'm new to the forums and I just wanted to know, what is Trade Inn? 

[ImDaMisterL]

16 minutes ago, wha said:

Pardon me, but I'm new to the forums and I just wanted to know, what is Trade Inn? 

Hey, welcome to the forums!

The Trade Inn is an up-coming feature of DST that would allow us to trade our duplicate (or not) skins for higher-tier skins.

But a lot of the players in this community disagreed with the current system and changes that were going to be implemented, and started discussing here with others what would be the best thing to do.

Currently, there wasn't any agreement, but Klei is reading and analyzing every point there is to it, to make everyone (or at least most people) happy with the way the Trade Inn (and Marketability, if it is implemented) turns out.

Due to all this, said feature will take some (or a lot) more time to be released

(I'm just here, cheering for Klei and hoping they'll do what's best from the sidelines.)

[Fidooop]

*complains about not wanting to read a bunch*
*releases a wall of text*
*is hypocrite*
*NO REGRETS!*

I've been thinking about it a bit recently and the way I see it is nothing's going to be 'fair for everybody' unless the super rare stuff... Wasn't super rare anymore! *shrugs* I'm not saying to change the rate at which things drop... I'm stating facts outright... It's the truth and we can't change that without angering some people... Namely the ones who've spent tons of cash for those rare items...

I think if we want a good system that tries to be fair (Isn't going to be but it'd be close.) then we want it where all items can either be bought or worked for through time and effort! (Hopefully said time isn't 32 years... For a single Elegant...) Now... I know Klei doesn't exactly like the idea of putting Elegants out on the Trade Inn... But what if there was a select pool of Distinguisheds and Elegants that randomized every single week? I would love that! But... 9 of the former for the later is kind of ridiculous... Even at 9 common that's more than 2 weeks for a single Classy if you had bad drops constantly... Maybe 5 Common for a Classy and scale down each rarity up... so then it'd be 4 Classy = 1 Spiffy, 3 Spiffy = 1 Distinguished, and 2 Distinguished = 1 Elegant. Now doing the math... If one were to ONLY receive common drops (Which we don't.) it would take 30 weeks or 7-8 months to work up to a single Elegant... That's STILL an absolutely INSANE amount! BUT... We actually do have the grace of finding on average 1 Classy per week or 2 and the Spiffy here and there and even Distinguisheds from time to time which would lower that dramatically! If you're lucky you could work your way to an Elegant in a month of playing DST! Granted that's still a LOT of time if you're trying to get every single one of them *cough cough* but it might just work... Another thing I'd like to see implemented would be the ability to 'Trade Inn' 2 commons for a single other common... Just in case people are looking for a specific common and don't want to go searching!

Now as for marketability... This can either be REALLY good or REALLY bad... On the bright side: Hey! People who don't have time can just buy their items here on the market! yay!..... But then there's a dark side... This could get way out of hand and really fast too... And by that I mean Distinguisheds will become rarer than Elegants. If idlers catch on to the system and decide "Hey, I can just idle on 20 accounts and turn every single drop I get up into Elegants and sell those on the market so I get lots and lots of money!" Why is that bad? Well for 1 people are freeloading money off of Klei's game and for 2 they are going to be inflating those Elegants and burning out everything else just so they can sell those high priced items on the market... Soon Elegants would become very common and probably drop below the price of the Spiffies! That's... not exactly a good thing...

An alternate approach would be to just sell the items for a set price in an alternate section in the Trade Inn and not even open up to the market... Then people won't be tempted to nab cash as much! People shouldn't be here to play DST to make money... They should be here to have fun and look stylish while doing so! And ontop of that.... Klei makes some real cash (Not the couple of pennies the steam market would earn them.) to make even more content for us! I know Klei said they wouldn't be doing micro-transactions but they also said they'd never make a multiplayer Don't Starve. In my general opinion, to make it fair for all without running into a bunch of issues... Make it so that people can work for items as well as pay for them! But stay away from the market at the same time... Unless of course you (Klei) are willing to take the risk...

In the end... I really don't see a problem with playing the game for 1-3 months (depending on luck) for a single elegant item. (I mean... If you're lucky enough you could end up just finding an Elegant ) Nor do I see a problem with making a micro-transaction store if there is opportunity of getting every item being sold for free! Now, I can see where this can start to look like one of those mobile games... "Pay if you don't want to wait!" But that's exactly what the best idea I can think of is! Then we don't even have the problem of the community going out there and setting their own prices or taking advantage of the ill informed because the prices will all be right there in the Trade Inn set by Klei themselves!
I do however hope that more ways to earn items would get added later on... Like a gambling system (not with money but with items you've collected) or even missions or something.. c:

Also, for those of you thinking that it's a very bad idea to do this due to the fact that people will all end up looking too similar... Klei's going to release a lot more headslot items in the future... Some people will lean towards 1 type while others will lean towards another!

 

Does anyone agree with me? Does anybody find any faults in this system? I myself think it's very good for pretty much everybody except for those wanting to make cash off of DST... Which isn't the point of DST... Let me know your views on it! c:

 

EDIT: Just thought of something... There could be a problem with these "supposed to be uncommon" items becoming too common if people are all trading up to them or buying them... (even with the random item pool thing) I don't know how that'd be fixed but I mean... If Klei implements this system then nobody will really trade with each other unless it's cross game trades!

[VexTheHex]

 As people have continued to discuss the subject, one main thing stuck out to me. At least other companies won't be profiting as much for Klei's work with the market being active. Not as many people will be selling or purchasing DST items using keys for CS or TF2. Those games do not need more profit in the slightest. I'd much rather see Klei benefit from their work than TF2/CS.

[Fidooop]

6 minutes ago, WatWiltWastRIP said:

Here's my two cents.

Klei is not trying to make money off of this... They are trying to reward people for how much they've played! People who don't have time to play would rather just spend cash for those high tier items. Klei's trying to implement a way to fix that as well as get rid of all the duplicate lower tier items!

Also, this is a very friendly community, I highly recommend you reword what you said because it could get reported fairly quickly and your two cents can't be viewed by anyone anymore... Please try and be productive and friendly to everyone, including Klei!

[t0panka]

@Fidooop if your idea would be implemented trading will be gone and rarity will be gone. Also "Klei will release more heads"? Yeah can't wait to see you wearing Wilson GOH instead of Mad scientist WIlson. This just wont work + deleting rarity of items would just meant we will have "tons of useless spiffies elegants" as many of you said here. And after that you will all want only timeless/loyal items because those will be rare and not in trading inn.

@WatWiltWastRIP calm down dude. Klei set price for Shipwrecked for ridiculous 5$ and that has to pay for 2 companies! This is the truth. So plz get your facts straight and calm down with your posts please. Also now only VALVE is getting money from "keys market"

 

Why do you all even care about marketplace when you not gonna use it? Everyone against it is throwing around extreme assumptions that everyone is greedy and without spine and want to make some "steam funds" off market. To me it looks like from your posts that you will be first to do this stuff which is sad. But if you not trading with keys now and wont trade on market either stop killing it for other people.

And i have to repost this post because it is so much true!

10 hours ago, leonseye said:

I was under the impression that Klei giving you these skins absolutely for free and allowing you to make the hypothetical $6 that you didn't have before was them being pretty helpful to their players.

But I guess you could take the other route and instead be upset that you can't trade it away for a $12 item because for some reason all of your "friends" are greedy money-grubbers.

To each their own, I suppose.

[Asparagus]

On 2/2/2016 at 2:10 PM, Asparagus said:

Keep in mind AGAIN, that:

1. Your chances of getting skins higher than spiffy are not in anyway hindered. You still get a random chance to get them like EVERYONE.
2. The Trade Inn would probably solve a few kinks in trading such as:
   1. Trading in your many unwanted commons... not many people have that many commons anyway... except idlers...
   2. ... (I forgot my other point... probably gonna edit this if I remember)
3. As someone stated, not many people are super into common clothes (with exception to a few like scribbled pants and brown pants that match a large number of skins :3)
4. We are already trading TF2 keys for DST skins that cost nothing... NOTHING... T__T
5. When we put a price on these skins, taking point #4, would that not be FAIR? Something of value for something of value? T__T
6. Actually using these skins in-game would be very nice... but just for the sake of having them in your shelf and giving yourself a pat on the back... would you think it better to get it with or without money? (<--- A serious question to think about, I am thinking about this myself and no jab to any side... pun not intended)

7. On 2/2/2016 at 8:22 AM, JoeW said:

   At first, some people are going to sell too high, and some people are going to sell too low, but then things will even out as the community decides what the items are worth to them. This will allow people to better understand the value of the items that they have and let's players have more choices for how they can get different items. 

   JoeW is giving us the chance to decide for ourselves... now if someone were to sell a GoH for like $500 would you buy it? If you do, then you yourself are encouraging this and so it is up to you... sell it at a reasonable price... or just trade it... or do you lose the ability to trade it for what it is if it has a price? It all depends on you.

On 2/3/2016 at 8:31 PM, Asparagus said:

• People do not seem to like the idea of putting prices on skins
• But they are trading TF2 keys which I believe cost money(?)
• And so I was stating that some people are already using a form of currency to buy something that is free, namely their TF2 keys on DST skins that drop for free
• So I hinted that would it be so bad to place a price on these DST skins and give Klei a little more income to pay their artists if they are being bought with something that costs money (TF2 keys, etc.)?
• From what I see, people buy the game once... they are continuously adding more stuff in the game. How they can keep doing that with the little they earned from 1 sale of their game to 1 person (not to mention "bundles") is already amazing... they are not a big company... ("Or are they?" sorry, I just had to). I do not know what their finances are looking right now, and so I may be wrong on this...
• Thinking about it, TF2 is free to play... I guess the only way for them to earn is though the OPTIONAL items they sell... IDK, they add stats or something right? IDK, it just reminds of of MMOs... <__<

 

[Fidooop]

1 hour ago, t0panka said:

trading will be gone and rarity will be gone. Also "Klei will release more heads"? Yeah can't wait to see you wearing Wilson GOH instead of Mad scientist WIlson.

Like I said, to make it equal for both those without money and those with money Klei'd have to get rid of rarities... But in this case, no... It'd take months before people get any Elegant let alone 10 or 30 which would be considered "too much" For there to be THAT many Elegants it'd take years!

As for the headslot items... Yes, people have different wants and desires for different items... At first everyone's going to want mad scientist Wilson just because it's new! but then as hype dies down people'll be going for the ones they want most! I myself probably will prefer GoH Wilson over Mad Scientist Wilson.

And I'm not against the Steam Market I just see so many flaws with how manipulable it can be by the community... I myself don't even think anybody in the Klei community would jump to do that... But the same people who idled for items in TF2 and ran the value of refined metal WAY down will catch on and start doing it to DST aswell... and they'll get the same TF2 keys as they did before! A few added steps but it's been made simple for them... Especially with the fact that they can very easily make their own 'idle' servers. I myself wish steam market was a thing for DST! I'm just scared that it'll be taken advantage of...

Trading however, will still be a thing! If this randomized pool is a thing then people will be out wanting to trade for those items that aren't out for sale that week! and they'll be offering more than what it costs to get them through the Trade Inn. and in some cases people will be wanting to trade downwards as well.

[t0panka]

Well i stated in couple posts what i think about all this and why are some ideas bad or good based on my looong experience with all this stuff. I know that Klei knows what to do and whatever that is it will make some people mad because of "why he has 2 elegants and i don't" or "i think all people are bad" or "i can't have it? So noone can" or "i get 4 dupes of same shirt from random system = Klei suck" or "i don't want for Klei to make money because everything should be free forever for me (LOL on this one)" or because of some people own agendas or just because of good old envy :/

 

[Fidooop]

My good ol' friend, Asparagus told me to summarize my really long post of a system recommendation because he liked it and thought that more people would bother to read it if it was short, sweet, and to the point... So here goes! *does what Asparagus says*

1: Trade Inn gets all items. Destinguished and Elegant rarities would be limited though...

• 10 Distinguished and 5 Elegant at a time. That "pool" would be reshuffled every week.
• I even think Spiffies and Classies should be capped as well! But all commons should always be for trade. (2 common = 1 common from Trade Inn)
• and I think the pool should increase the more items come into play... Because imagine shuffling through 100 unique Elegants 5 at a time... That'd take FOREVER!
• With this, people will still be trading for the items that aren't for sale in the Trade Inn allowing for the good ol' "trading up for profit in items" to be a thing (because due to supply vs demand people will pay more for the item that isn't in the Inn) as well as getting the items you want simply by trading! (Whether it be through the Inn or trading with somebody else!)

2: Trade Inn prices should also scale down the higher the rarity is...

• 5 Common = 1 Classy, 4 Classy = 1 Spiffy, 3 Spiffy = 1 Distinguished,  and 2 Distinguished = 1 Elegant.
• This would make it so that it doesn't take multiple years for a single Elegant.
• It also makes it so that you can still work for your Elegants and not get bored and give up.
• It'd also take long enough that Elegants don't just get spammed out constantly.
• Very few people will even collect all 4 drops for the week compared to those not being able to collect all 4 drops.
• And no, the Elegants wouldn't become overcrowded as long as nobody idles multiple accounts.

3: I'm not entirely sure where I stand on the whole 'items = money' thing yet... I just know that the Steam Market is free enough to be able to break the system with ease... That scares me... But I do think that items should be able to be sold for money! Whether it be via the Steam Market or an ingame store run by Klei! I could care less either way... I would use either one if I actually had the money!

Hopefully that's short enough and proves the points I'm trying to make well enough!

[Asparagus]

46 minutes ago, Fidooop said:

My good ol' friend, Asparagus told me to summarize my really long post of a system recommendation because he liked it and thought that more people would bother to read it if it was short, sweet, and to the point... So here goes! *does what Asparagus says*

Dang it Fid, Imma get u fo dis ₍₍ (ง Ŏ౪Ŏ)ว ⁾⁾

(I don't know if I should give you the like or not >:3)

*spams Fid*

Spoiler

 

ฅ(*°ω°*ฅ)

 

Well, I thought it was a suggestion that at least seems to get some balance for the opposing points... I could see a few points that need to be adjusted but we'll see when the actual thing comes... (‘-’*)

*:ﾟ*｡⋆ฺ(*´◡`) teehee... imma get u fo dis Fid~

[CaptainFun]

4 hours ago, Asparagus said:

• But they are trading TF2 keys which I believe cost money(?)

They do, but you can trade for them using metal. Metal is formed by sacrificing other items like weapons (found for free). You can refine metal and if you have enough of it, you can trade for keys. Not really sure why people want metal, but hey. 

4 hours ago, Asparagus said:

Thinking about it, TF2 is free to play... I guess the only way for them to earn is though the OPTIONAL items they sell... IDK, they add stats or something right? IDK, it just reminds of of MMOs... <__<

TF2's cosmetics don't have stats. Any weapons or items that have stats can be found, traded for, bought, or even borrowed from the store. There was a point where some items had a set bonus that went with a hat, but they removed that because it ended up being an awful idea. 

[leonseye]

20 minutes ago, CaptainFun said:

They do, but you can trade for them using metal. Metal is formed by sacrificing other items like weapons (found for free). You can refine metal and if you have enough of it, you can trade for keys. Not really sure why people want metal, but hey. 

I think the real point here is that it's completely ludicrous to have to play TF2 or CS:GO just to trade for skins in DST.  That makes no sense.

Trading skins for other skins is perfectly acceptable, as you don't have to go to an entirely different game in order to have fun in this one.  The Marketplace also makes sense to me for the same reasons; you don't need to go play some other game by some other developer in order to utilize the Marketplace to buy skins for DST.

If you look at the Trading forum, you will see that people are already regularly paying $25 and upwards for skins in DST through currency obtainable only in other games.  On top of this, there is NO transparency to the way trades are currently handled; it's very easy to swindle somebody who doesn't know the value of things, because there is nothing to tell you what others have been "paying" for these items.

There seems to be some great fear that moving to the Marketplace will make items overpriced.  Is $25-50 for a skin not overpriced?  Why is that totally cool to pay for right now in extremely niche currencies that not everyone has access to, but paying $25-50 in real money that the vast majority of people have access to completely unacceptable?  

Especially when Klei would actually receive a small portion of these transactions in order to keep updating the game we all enjoy and utilize to make more skins?

I can't follow this logic; it just makes no sense to me.

And that is not even considering the fact that more people would be willing to trade away their skins for money that they can utilize anywhere, instead of just in games that they don't play at all, bringing more items for trade into the mix.

More people selling skins = LOWER prices.  This is very simple economics.  This has been proven time and again.

For some reason, a lot of people seem to believe the opposite is true.  This doesn't make any sense to me either.

[RalphKastro]

2 minutes ago, leonseye said:

More people selling skins = LOWER prices.

wait, somehow this is not obvious? Of course too low a price and we'll get a huge crash in the economy leaving a huge portion of the population unemployed, but I don't think the skin system is that complex yet.

[leonseye]

Just now, RalphKastro said:

wait, somehow this is not obvious? Of course too low a price and we'll get a huge crash in the economy leaving a huge portion of the population unemployed, but I don't think the skin system is that complex yet.

Well, if you read the thread, people are simultaneously complaining that a ton of people will come to DST and idle for skins and flood the market and this will somehow make everything way MORE expensive for everyone.

It doesn't follow any sort of standard logic that I can see.

[ConfusedCourier]

Personally i'm all for marketable items, since you can get any quality item the drop system in this game is extremely fair compared to other market games with the $2.49 case systems where only the lowest quality is available for free and the rest is paid so it's incredibly hard to build your way up. Give it enough time and with a little luck you should be able to get everything you want, I see no issue here.

[leonseye]

5 hours ago, WatWiltWastRIP said:

hey are NOT being used for their intended use. Make them all free or remove them completely. That's the truth as it should be, silly fanboys.

They ARE all free.  Klei has not sold a single skin to anybody, period.  It is literally everybody else who is making money off of what Klei has given them for free.

So I'm not really sure why you are spouting such vitriol against them.

[jbeetle]

I guess I sorta glossed over the whole apparent fact that Klei was going to charge for skins. But hey, I don't care. A lot of good information here in this thread. Thanks.

[leonseye]

9 minutes ago, jbeetle said:

I guess I sorta glossed over the whole apparent fact that Klei was going to charge for skins. But hey, I don't care. A lot of good information here in this thread. Thanks.

Klei.. isn't going to charge for skins.  <.<

[jbeetle]

7 minutes ago, leonseye said:

Klei.. isn't going to charge for skins.  <.<

Then I misread that angry person's post saying skins should be free. That's what I get!

[CaptainFun]

1 hour ago, leonseye said:

I think the real point here is that it's completely ludicrous to have to play TF2 or CS:GO just to trade for skins in DST.  That makes no sense.

Oh, I'm aware. I was just trying to provide a little insight into the community created market for TF2.

Quote

There seems to be some great fear that moving to the Marketplace will make items overpriced.  Is $25-50 for a skin not overpriced?  Why is that totally cool to pay for right now in extremely niche currencies that not everyone has access to, but paying $25-50 in real money that the vast majority of people have access to completely unacceptable?  

There's a double standard, but I think it has something to do with the fact that, again, TF2/CS:GO keys or whatever can actually be obtained without cash. They're like a digital commodity, in bizarre way. 

Quote

Especially when Klei would actually receive a small portion of these transactions in order to keep updating the game we all enjoy and utilize to make more skins?

I agree completely. If Klei has an option to make money by allowing players to resell something that can already be gained for free, I don't object. Hell, I think it's good for the players if done right. I've bought entire games with Steam wallet funds made entirely from reselling TF2 loot. 

Ultimately the market will work it out, and it's fine for it to exist as an option for players. Again, all skins can be found for free anyway. 

[leonseye]

4 minutes ago, jbeetle said:

Then I misread that angry person's post saying skins should be free. That's what I get!

lol, no worries.

1) The way we receive skins isn't changing.  The magical gift fairy in the sky will still give you free random skins for playing the game.

2) Klei is proposing that the Trade Inn will allow players to trade lesser quality skins for a 1 tier higher skin at a 9:1 ratio, up to Spiffy.  Elegant and Distinguished are not included.  There's some contention on the usefulness of this for players who only want the more rare items and have all of the lower tiers already.

3) Klei is also proposing that in addition to being able to trade skins to other players for skins or keys, that you will be able to use real money to buy skins from other players through the Steam marketplace.

So Klei themselves are not charging anything for the skins you get in the game (though some have suggested that they do this instead of using the Marketplace).  They are just letting players choose to trade them for money if that's what they want to do.

9 minutes ago, CaptainFun said:

There's a double standard, but I think it has something to do with the fact that, again, TF2/CS:GO keys or whatever can actually be obtained without cash. They're like a digital commodity, in bizarre way.

Yeah, and I fully understand that.

I only have a problem w/ the fact that in order to obtain these keys w/out cash, you have to play TF2 or CS:GO, which are entirely unrelated to Don't Starve and Klei.

It would be like trying to buy a pair of pants at Target and them telling you that they will only accept water bottles from Walmart as payment.

[ImDaMisterL]

1 hour ago, leonseye said:

The magical gift fairy in the sky will still give you free random skins for playing the game.

It's actually a hamster in a Rube Goldberg machine, but that's not really relevant to this discussion, is it? : P

[MenaAthena]

11 minutes ago, ImDaMisterL said:

It's actually a hamster in a Rube Goldberg machine, but that's nor really relevant to this discussion, is it? : P

No, it's the sky present gods. I thought we went over this.