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jtrain

Rookie on first playthrough trying to figure stuff out...

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jtrain    0

I'm on the Omni Foundry Lab mission where Monst3r goes with you, and I made it to the second site ok.  I've now gotten wiped on this level 6 times (on Beginner), having gotten no closer in the last 5 than I did on the first.  Didn't even make it out of the room next to the transporter on this last one, having encountered a 6-armor guard in that room, and another 6-armor guard in the next.  I'm starting to wonder if maybe there's some code that makes this level impossible if the game doesn't trust your ownership of it (I know other games have done that).

 

I downloaded/played the game for the first time during the free weekend on Steam last week, and decided to buy it, but I *didn't* buy Contingency Plan.  But while the free weekend was on, I ended up with an item from the DLC, the Thermal Disruptor I.  After the free weekend was up (on one of my failed Omni Foundry missions) I noticed that the Thermal Disruptor acted like it couldn't pierce armor, even though I was trying to use it on a 2-armor guard, and Incognita had plenty of power.  Did that item lose the attributes differentiating it from the standard Neural Disruptor when Steam revoked my "free weekend" license for Contingency Plan?

 

Similarly, does the game think I pirated the DLC or something, since I have an item from it but do not own it?

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RaustBD    7

Didn't even make it out of the room next to the transporter on this last one, having encountered a 6-armor guard in that room, and another 6-armor guard in the next.  I'm starting to wonder if maybe there's some code that makes this level impossible if the game doesn't trust your ownership of it (I know other games have done that).

The six armor guards have force fields that have to be hacked before they can be hurt (Unless you use Shalem 11 or a sprinting Rush, with an additional armor piercing augment for guns, a ventricular lance, and Monst3r's overlocked neural dart, and even then, the barriers can get even higher).

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DGM    14

>> "After the free weekend was up (on one of my failed Omni Foundry missions)"

 

Hang on...  The Omni Foundry mission is only part of Contingency Plan.  How are you still getting Foundry missions after the free weekend if you don't have the DLC?  Was this a run you started during that weekend or are you still getting that mission on new campaigns even now?

 

But concerning the guards, just hover the mouse over them and read their tooltips to find out what special abilities they have.  The guards you're having problems with have an extra layer of armor for each firewall on them.

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jtrain    0

Thanks for the replies!

 

The six armor guards have force fields that have to be hacked before they can be hurt (Unless you use Shalem 11 or a sprinting Rush, with an additional armor piercing augment for guns, a ventricular lance, and Monst3r's overlocked neural dart, and even then, the barriers can get even higher).

I figured out how to deal with them, I'm just massively under-equipped to be able to deal with them, *then* deal with the rest of the level, under the time pressure involved.  This is my first playthrough so I only have Decker, Internationale, and Monst3r, and the only thing I recognize from your list is Monst3r's dart gun.

 

>> "After the free weekend was up (on one of my failed Omni Foundry missions)"

 

Hang on...  The Omni Foundry mission is only part of Contingency Plan.  How are you still getting Foundry missions after the free weekend if you don't have the DLC?  Was this a run you started during that weekend or are you still getting that mission on new campaigns even now?

Yes, this is my first and only playthrough/campaign, started during the free weekend.  I don't have any experience with roguelikes but I'm starting to figure out that the designed-for experience is an iterative thing, where you unlock new agents/gear/abilities between campaigns that you can use when you "try, try again".  Hearing that this mission in particular is part of the DLC is starting to make the sudden difficulty spike make sense, if it's been designed for players who have been through multiple playthroughs with the base game and are at a higher "level" than I am.

 

I might give it one more shot tonight just to see if I get a more advantageous layout (that last one was *bananas*), but it's kinda sounding like it's probably time to give up on this run, see what new stuff I've unlocked, and start a new campaign.

 

JT

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DGM    14
Ah.  First playthrough with lots of restarts.  That explains it.

 

It sounds like you haven't learned how to manipulate the guards yet.  Let me guess - your only way of dealing with them is to either zap them or avoid detection entirely, right?  I made the same mistake until I watched some of Warfreak's videos.

 

As long as they're not already on overwatch the guards will go investigate the last strange sight or sound they detected.  When they reach the tile they're curious about they'll look left and right and, if they don't see anything, will go back to what they were doing on their next turn (resuming the hunt or going back to their station/patrol path).

 

There are 3 basic ways to distract them:

 

1) Walk through their peripheral vision.  Don't worry, they can't turn to get a better look unless either it's their turn or they're already on overwatch.

 

2) Sprint.  They can hear this from up to 6 tiles away (even through solid walls).  Just make sure you can get to cover outside their hearing range before ending your turn.

 

3) Open/close a door in their field of view.  Just don't stand right in front of it unless you're sure they can't get direct sight on you through it.  Also note that they will go through the door to investigate.

 

Once you master luring guards around you'll be a lot more dangerous.

 

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warfreak2    30

Yep, I'd definitely recommend playing without any additional content until you can beat the game on Experienced at least.

 

As for the weird behaviour, this is definitely not a deliberate thing - the game (and DLC) is advertised as DRM-free on Humble and GOG. As far as I can tell, Klei have too many brain cells to pull that sort of stunt.

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jtrain    0

 

Ah.  First playthrough with lots of restarts.  That explains it.
 
It sounds like you haven't learned how to manipulate the guards yet.  Let me guess - your only way of dealing with them is to either zap them or avoid detection entirely, right?  I made the same mistake until I watched some of Warfreak's videos.

Correct.  Good info, thanks!

 

Yep, I'd definitely recommend playing without any additional content until you can beat the game on Experienced at least.

 

As for the weird behaviour, this is definitely not a deliberate thing - the game (and DLC) is advertised as DRM-free on Humble and GOG. As far as I can tell, Klei have too many brain cells to pull that sort of stunt.

Gotcha - I didn't even realize Contingency Plan was installed during the free weekend (I didn't do anything on purpose to do so, just installed the game and started playing) until the item popped up as buy-able; there's an indicator on the item description that tells me it's from the DLC, but as far as I can tell nothing in-game tells you about *missions* that are from the DLC.  So now that I know the mission's difficulty spike has a reason for being there, that all makes sense.

 

Thanks!

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bobthe    3

 

Ah.  First playthrough with lots of restarts.  That explains it.
 
It sounds like you haven't learned how to manipulate the guards yet.  Let me guess - your only way of dealing with them is to either zap them or avoid detection entirely, right?  I made the same mistake until I watched some of Warfreak's videos.
 
As long as they're not already on overwatch the guards will go investigate the last strange sight or sound they detected.  When they reach the tile they're curious about they'll look left and right and, if they don't see anything, will go back to what they were doing on their next turn (resuming the hunt or going back to their station/patrol path).
 
There are 3 basic ways to distract them:
 
1) Walk through their peripheral vision.  Don't worry, they can't turn to get a better look unless either it's their turn or they're already on overwatch.
 
2) Sprint.  They can hear this from up to 6 tiles away (even through solid walls).  Just make sure you can get to cover outside their hearing range before ending your turn.
 
3) Open/close a door in their field of view.  Just don't stand right in front of it unless you're sure they can't get direct sight on you through it.  Also note that they will go through the door to investigate.
 
Once you master luring guards around you'll be a lot more dangerous.

 

 

Just some quick corrections/clarifications on this advice:

 

1) Just want to clarfiy that "peripheral vision" here is referring to tiles that highlight as yellow (versus red). Yellow tiles will be noticed but not seen. Important difference.

 

2) Sprinting can be heard from 5 tiles away, not 6. It also counts tiles in a weird fashion. The game tries to simulate a circular radius which means it extends 5 tiles orthogonally but only 3 or 4 tiles on the diagonal. I recommend looking closely at the sound echo animation next time you sprint to see the exact area covered.

 

3) Whether or not the guard goes through the door to investigate is based on the side of the door you are on when you open/close it, even if the guard does not see your character.

 

These are great tips for distracting guards though. Very important as you progress in difficulty. Also very important for distracting stationary guards that are blocking a door (etc) that you need access to.

 

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DGM    14

Just some quick corrections/clarifications on this advice:

 

1) Just want to clarfiy that "peripheral vision" here is referring to tiles that highlight as yellow (versus red). Yellow tiles will be noticed but not seen. Important difference.

 

2) Sprinting can be heard from 5 tiles away, not 6. It also counts tiles in a weird fashion. The game tries to simulate a circular radius which means it extends 5 tiles orthogonally but only 3 or 4 tiles on the diagonal. I recommend looking closely at the sound echo animation next time you sprint to see the exact area covered.

 

3) Whether or not the guard goes through the door to investigate is based on the side of the door you are on when you open/close it, even if the guard does not see your character.

 

 

1) This is wrong.  Peripheral vision is darker red, yellow is complete cover.

 

2) I thought it was 6 if you were on a straight orthogonal line, but I could be wrong.  I'll have to check.

 

3) I didn't know that!  I'll have to confirm, but if it's true then thanks for the information.

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bobthe    3

1) This is wrong.  Peripheral vision is darker red, yellow is complete cover.

 

2) I thought it was 6 if you were on a straight orthogonal line, but I could be wrong.  I'll have to check.

 

3) I didn't know that!  I'll have to confirm, but if it's true then thanks for the information.

 

 

1) I think we're talking about slightly different things. You're correct with respect to the vision arc, but isn't the movement highlight square yellow in this case? I don't have the game in front of me here to verify at the moment. The highlight square color is what determines whether it's "noticed" or "seen". The vision arc color differences are so you know whether they will only notice (versus see) you due to cover or due to not facing that direction.

 

2) I am counting starting with the tile adjacent to the character, not the tile they are on, if that makes any difference in your math.

 

3) As far as I recall =) I don't have the game in front of me right now to double-check. Maybe I should have clarified that in my initial response, but I do know that guards don't always go through a door when they respond to one opening or closing. I think it's based on which side of the door you're on when you activate it.

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Loscil2    81

Don't run in Sankaku; if you shoot with hacked drones, be careful of the noise. Your own lethal weapons don't make noise (agents are professionals and hence they use silencers, duh)

 

In general, if it's really important to take down a guard, do it. Otherwise I think it's worth it to wait few turns to move across. Hunting guards are annoying.

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