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Twil    4

Twil: I LOVE your idea, as it completely scales up with level..

This would mean it is almost the same with regular form except wood meter + sanity check (two major punishment) vs night vision + speed + ability to dig stuff up...

 

This would be a major buff (if you ask me), however, it is still quite significantly worse than wx with lightning strike..

 

You can also reduce your sanity drop with a hat/pretty parasol/accessory if its for like chopping trees with this change.

 

If its too much well I suggested before: Allow woodie to only chop down trees but can no longer chop anything else (mines,saplings,berry bushes,cant hammer down things....).

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Bahlsen    353

Let's not forget that all these changes were made to avoid griefing, at the cost of balance...Even if personnally I'm fine the way it is, though I'd prefer to see the transformation not occurring at 25 of the log meter but maybe 15 or 20, but this is minor.

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acemurdock    960

Another thing to mention here is that with the log meter constantly visible as Woodie there is no functional purpose for Lucy talking. 
At all.
She's supposed to warn Woodie when he's going to turn, and that could still work here. Needing Lucy with you a lot wouldn't even be a problem here because she can teleport to you, haha. She could speak from your inventory, like she does now sometimes. 
I talked to one of the developers and they said they'd keep in in for flavor, but...
still, a lot of his main game mechanics just don't make any sense anymore. It's very convoluted. 

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Johnnyprofane    137

@acemurdock I know how you feel. To me, having the log meter constantly present sort of ruins part of the fun of woodie. If you can constantly see it you'll be constantly micromanaging it, versus just having Lucy warn you which would, at least to me, make it more fun to manage the curse.

I was more excited for woodie than any other character, but in his current iteration he's kind of a let down.

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absimiliard    229

I actually enjoy the challenge of balancing the log-meter vs. everything else, but without an actual meter it might be too difficult for me to handle.

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Johnny5isAlive    360
log meter constantly visible as Woodie
log meter constantly present

I'll just add that it also looks really out of place and weird. I'd prefer if Lucy was still the only warning (Perhaps lower the transformation threshold to 15 to compensate?) I feel like having it on screen breaks the games rule of "Learn by screwing up" I can't think of a reason for it to be on screen other than to inform new players of the need for logs / make sure new players don't overeat logs.  

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acemurdock    960

I feel like having it on screen breaks the games rule of "Learn by screwing up" 

 

yeah same :/ 

I can't decide if having it makes it too easy, or if not having it makes it too hard. But that's....what Lucy is supposed to be for. 

Right now (her speaking) serves no purpose except "flavor" and that makes me sad :(

 

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osmRhodey    1,461

I like how I'm going to keep re-stating things in this thread.

HaHa i'm joking of course

But no, it's all good. Glad there's some discussion. And people actually have input and thoughts.

 

But I'm not going to be saying more on here that hasn't been said. If you are wondering on a topic covered, I have covered it in previous posts most likely. :-)

If you would like me to quote it, feel free to ask.

 

    • Make damage around that of the spear(optional)
      • Not completely weak, not completely strong
    • Make the natural defense something tanked by the log meter
      • AKA most damage is taken by the meter and left over is taken by you
      • All damage WILL remain through and through, changing back and forth, YOU have to heal the wounds
      • It is already a thing when the log meter hits 0, you start taking damage
    • Remove or slow the weather effects more, or find a way to couter act them. (ideas)
      • Jump into a lake when there are no mobs spawning to cool down
      • Curl under objects or the like to heat up
    • Little ways to increase sanity at the cost of the log meter
      • (i have no real ideas on this, the sanity thing could be left unchanged imo)
    • Remove the log meter from Woodie!! Let Lucy be the tell tale sign!!

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acemurdock    960

Ok, played some hours with the changes last night. I am better informed. 

Going to and from werebeaver is very easy now, as long as you are near lots of trees. The sanity you lose as werebeaver can easily be regained as Woodie with pinecones, so long as you were only gnawing trees in your time as werebeaver.

The weather effects were not a big a deal as I imagined, because as werebeaver, you get down to 0 sanity MUCH faster than weather can take effect. When it rained, I barely got wet, because his resistance cancelled out the rain nicely. During the winter, I didn't even have time to GET cold before the sanity meter hit zero.

 

 

So, in your above post, I agree that it would be nice to have some way to restore sanity, if the weather effects are there to further discourage staying as werebeaver too long. 

 

Next, full moons are TERRIFYING now. The log meter drains very fast, so it is hard to turn back and avoid the sanity penalty. You're almost guaranteed to go insane during a full moon. I kind of like this, from a story standpoint, but still, it'd be nice to be able to prepare and have a sanity buffer somewhere (does glommer work? I didnt try this).

Finally, like you said in your summary post, he NEEDS more damage to make werebeaver worth it besides resource gathering. He's not going to be the fighter of the group anymore, not with the health, but really all he can be used for is resource gathering and it's a bit tricky to handle that.

Of course, his limited uses are now balanced by the fact that it's so easy to go back and forth between forms now....

I'm less annoyed than I was. More confused at what his purpose now will be in a group.  

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absimiliard    229

@acemurdock:  I don't think his purpose in DST is really group-oriented.  I think he's more designed to make it easier to play on a shared server that's low on non-renewables.  He handles no-flint really well, for example.

 

In a group I think what he has to offer is mostly quick-chopped logs or easy-to-get beard-hairs.  I won't even dispute that every camp almost always needs more logs, but it's nothing like what Wickerbottom can bring to a group.  (Woody does okay for getting beard-hair because he can go to 0 Sanity and farm beardlings really easily, getting back up from 0 Sanity is also easier on him than on most due to the boost for planting trees.)

 

(then again, Wilson doesn't bring anything to a group beyond beard-hair, so I'm not complaining about Woody, not in the least)

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Kzisor    1,058

@acemurdock, you can easily predict when full moons happen, that means you can easily get ready for them.

  • It takes 9-13 logs to turn back into Woodie based on lag.
  1. Full Moon (Day 11)
    1. It takes 20-25 logs in total to survive the autumn full moon, this is the total amount consumed including those required for transformation.
  2. Full Moon (Day 31)
    1. It takes 30-35 logs in total to survive the winter full moon, this is the total amount consumed including those required for transformation.

As you can see with this information you can easily prepare for full moons and keep enough logs on you (drop them right before night) to stay as Woodie. Sanity drain is very negligible if you rush the transformation. 

 

Edit:

Changed first to the appropriate season.

Removed extra bullet points.

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acemurdock    960

 

As you can see with this information you can easily prepare for full moons and keep enough logs on you (drop them right before night) to stay as Woodie. Sanity drain is very negligible if you rush the transformation. 

 

 

 Yes, you could plan ahead to just cancel it out and totally ignore one of his main game mechanics because it's broken, yeah.

"Preparing for the full moon" before meant positioning yourself for maximum efficiency during the night when you could stay werebeaver easily, and gather lots of materials. Also, prepping for the sanity and health drop by making jerky so you can get back to health again when you turn back to Woodie.

Now, prepping means try to not be werebeaver as fast as possible?

I get it, it's a "curse", it's bad, but this kind of...turns a main game mechanic of his from a tricky upside to a downside. Doesn't it? 

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Kzisor    1,058

@acemurdock, I simply gave an alternative solution to the problem without changing a single game mechanic. It's your choice whether you want to use the information I gave.

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acemurdock    960

@acemurdock, I simply gave an alternative solution to the problem without changing a single game mechanic. It's your choice whether you want to use the information I gave.

 

No no, I understand. I'm just going about this thread with the idea of trying to make him more balanced, that's all. Your ideas would work as it is currently, yes. I'm just saying that if the best way to play him now is to avoid his main game mechanic, perhaps it is not the best way to balance him. 

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Kzisor    1,058

@acemurdock, you would only avoid him on full moon nights every other time there is no point in avoiding it. In fact the Werebeaver is faster than Woodie at chopping trees and you don't have to eat logs if you are leveling a forest because the Werebeaver gets log meter back from chopping.

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absimiliard    229

Your log-meter goes up when you dig up saplings, or grass-tufts, or berry-bushes, or tree-stumps.  It also goes up when you gnaw away on boulders as well.  Basically most things the beaver does will raise the log-meter a bit, over time turning you back to Woody.

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osmRhodey    1,461

Wow okay. Last post I think I'm going to make here before I unfollow my own thread.

It's been nice having discussions but now it just seems to be the repeating clauses over and over again.

Apologies if that sounds rude at all, but many of the topics being restated have been answered.

 

 

Things we know:

  • Lucy is infinite as always
  • Lucy will teleport when you drop her and use another axe in her place. You could hold her and turn to werebeaver by using a flint axe while keeping her in the inventory
  • Woodie gains +5 Sanity upon planting a tree, birch or pine
  • Woodie can gnaw on varied plants and wood to stave off the werebeaver which now can be turned to and fro at will
  • The werebeaver drains sanity at approx. -2/sec on sanity effectively giving you ~100 seconds
  • Woodie now has insulation for his beard
  • The log meter is always on your screen and hitting 25 will change you into the beaver
  • Beaver damage is down to 27(axe)
  • Beaver is no longer immune to weather effects. Equivalent to beefalo hat with umbrella
  • Beaver armor is toned down to 25%
  • Full moon will drop you right down to 25 on the meter and drop like a sack of rocks
  • If the log meter drops to 0 you will begin taking damage as if you were starving

 

 

Possible Changes:

  • Remove the log meter from Woodie's screen. Lucy should be able to warn you, and if you must, have Woodie play his hunger animation so you can look and go, "He's not hungry tho-OOOOHHH"
  • If you are holding Lucy in your on hand inventory nightmares cannot attack, even if your sanity is low.
    • If she is not with you, they will attack. Possible to knock it off though if sanity is low enough and hit. You cannot pick it back up until you are human, so be careful.
  • Tone down the sanity drain just a little bit. Possibly -8/min(open for discussion)
    • One of two for this one;
  • Increase damage dealt to 34(spear)  OR
  • Increase armor to 85% using the log meter as the armor, buffering the blows. When meter is low enough the damage is more significant. (now the only puzzle piece is if you'd keep the log meter filling as the change back or hitting complete zero or having it be an either or, that's open for discussion)
  • Quick ways to raise or lower temperature such as jumping into lakes or hiding in a bush(optional)

 

 

@absimiliard The entire point of DST is to make everyone group oriented or group haters. It is called Don't Starve Together. As I see it the game expansion is meant to let friends fight each other or fight together.
None of the characters are meant to bring anything to the table. They are all meant to be played as suggested, together. A group. You could effectively survive as all Wilson. All Wendy. All Wes even(if you like torture).

Woodie is no different to anyone else. He's not made to help with just one issue. He's made to be a character of the game that you can choose from. Wes really has no point but to be a struggle. People will play him anyways because they like it.

No one is bringing anything to the group aside from an extra hand. They all just go about surviving in unique and extraordinary ways.

 

Thank you,

  -Rhodey

 

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