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Asparagus    9,107

I thought turning into a Werebeaver dropped your inventory items (aside from the backpack) but they didn't... they did drop when I died though

...

Also the Beaver Ghost is adora-cute O__O

 

I lost most of my health from wasp swarms to test out his toughness... finishing blow by Terror Beak

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Johnny5isAlive    360

Honestly Woodie's current incarnation is pretty well rounded for a multiplayer environment. He can collect stupid amounts of wood that you will never be able to use, mine more rocks, flint, nitre, and moon rock than you ever thought you wanted all the while looking cool with his talking sidekick supreme axe of destruction and now he can pretty much morph between his forms at will for the speed boost, night vision, and cuddle factor!

He has almost no issues and the vast majority of the problems people have been listing can be fixed with a single word, *teamwork*

He was given 25% Beaver armour and a natural umbrella. All of my wants for Woodie have been met, now if you'll excuse me I have some massive deforestation to take care of.

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osmRhodey    1,461

He has heat resistance equivalent to a floral shirt or eyebrella, cold resistance equivalent to a beefalo hat, and now wetness resistance equivalent to an umbrella. His damage is a pathetic 27.2.

 

Ah all right, I was trying to figure out what it was equivalent to.

This still irks me a tad though because if you somehow manage to not die from insanityyou can't heat/cool yourself up/down.

You need people, which just makes you a burden.

 

 

 

I like this idea. If the log meter runs out, you're taking starvation damage AND full damage from whatever's hitting you, so you'd still really want to avoid that. It also gives you a way to kind-of-heal while a werebeaver (something that's pretty much not an option right now).

 

In terms of the general appeal of the reworked Woodie, I have to agree with @DarkXero. If you look at just the human part of Woodie, his only real perk is being able to chop trees faster (yeah, he's got the small beard, but that technically balances out between winter and summer, and the politeness is hardly worth mentioning). Looking at the Werebeaver side, you get some things for free, and can also chop trees faster, but otherwise is significantly worse than a geared character, with no way to improve. So... the only reason to try to go Werebeaver is to avoid impending weather/night that you didn't prepare for? That's a scenario that I don't plan to ever be in, and if I'm never planning to be in a situation where I would want to use Woodie's perk, I'd never want to use Woodie.

 

As for how to make the Werebeaver an attractive option without turning it into an unchecked rampaging pillager of worlds, that's tricky. If he was restored to his single-player glory, then that would be a griefer's paradise, for sure. So, before, the Werebeaver was good for... chopping, mining, demolishing, fighting, tanking, weather/night, and definitely bad for collecting, exploring, and building. It's still good for chopping, mining, and night, and it's decent for weather. Obviously we can't make it good for demolishing or fighting without crossing over into griefer facilitation, but we could make it better at tanking. The two main ways I can think of doing that would be to use the log meter as health again (ideally with as much or more absorption than before, considering his attacks are feeble now), and/or giving him some way to pull aggro (right-click an enemy?).

 

Or... they could do something really crazy and give him a new ability, like making "dams" that function as bridges between nearby pieces of land (maybe using up a bunch of log meter to do this). The underlying map tech doesn't really support this, but if they revamped it to support it, that would be really awesome, and give everyone a real reason to have Woodie on the team.

 

 

Interesting ideas as well.

And I sadly must agree, with how he's playing right now, I'd want to just stay as Woodie at all times. The beaver is literally just a burden.

He can't deal with weather as well, his damage is poor, his health is done before you can say 'hello', and the sanity drain just makes it the rotten icing on a garbage cake.

 

I can completely understand WHY he needed the overhaul. Griefers are issues, and you want him to be balanced and not a horribly op character.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the little perks he got with planting and all that jazz, Lucy can be anywhere with you, etc.

But any Woodie who doesn't turn back asap on a full moon is struggling horribly with sanity.(and quite possibly health) That meter drains like a broken septic dank and it's a struggle keeping it full.

Woodie was already a struggle with the turn back effects he had the day after but now it's like you're just kicking him in the butt for existing because he'll be dead before dawn most likely.

 
 

I love single player Woodie but looking all this through, I'd rather improve this version than bring back the grief god. There are improvements along side faults.

 

 

I would love to see that he can be a bigger tank/taunt, considering his speed.

 

-Damage possibly only increased to spear level since that's about normal gear, but that can be checked at later.

 

-The log meter being your impromptu shield. It takes most of the hits for you but you'll still get hurt. You never want it running out otherwise you're running around naked. Maybe it's not so much a healing thing but it's a defense and if it can tank a good chunk then you can last a good while.

 

-And with the topic of speed, I love possibly being able to gather enemy attention to you instead of others. Like you call it out, shout at it. Taunt it and steal it's attention to draw it where you want, but maybe it doesn't last for a horribly long time.

 

-I've thought of possibilities, if he's going to be affected by the environment maybe he can jump into ponds with the downside of waking frogs or mosquitoes. Burying into snow or making those dams to warm up in winter or something. Sanity boosting, maybe being around friendly things like the pigs or bunnymen. (not sure on some of these)

 

 

 

Those all aside, I agree with some and disagree with others.

The beaver is not just little hiccups, it's supposed to be something to keep track of, something to use to your advantage or avoid completely. Because as great as it is, it's not always helpful late game. But that's why it's a curse.

 

It's Woodie's main calling card, if it's too much of a burden to even bother with it all, why bother? You could just play Wilson. Yet I love the lumberjack. I love Lucy. :\

 

Getting late at night, sorry if my wording is getting worse

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osmRhodey    1,461

Honestly Woodie's current incarnation is pretty well rounded for a multiplayer environment. He can collect stupid amounts of wood that you will never be able to use, mine more rocks, flint, nitre, and moon rock than you ever thought you wanted all the while looking cool with his talking sidekick supreme axe of destruction and now he can pretty much morph between his forms at will for the speed boost, night vision, and cuddle factor!

He has almost no issues and the vast majority of the problems people have been listing can be fixed with a single word, *teamwork*

He was given 25% Beaver armour and a natural umbrella. All of my wants for Woodie have been met, now if you'll excuse me I have some massive deforestation to take care of.

 

I suppose this all comes with opinion.

Teamwork, sadly, can't fix all issues.

 

Woodie is fine. It's really only the beaver who has the issues.

I love Woodie, but now I hate the beaver because he's literally more a burden than anything in my opinion.

 

He's always been the wood, rocks, whatever collector since implementation. But he's also been a decent fighter.

All of the perks came at a cost of your health, hunger, and sanity.

 

I'm okay with the weather protection but at the same time he was never affected, period, and as a beaver you can't DO anything. Simply turn back and hope you can get things going before you die.

Full moons are a hazard.

 

I'm seriously just unsure if this was their plan for him or what. But I've lost a good chunk of interest in the beaver boy. I feel like I'd simply weigh the whole team down.

 

Before I at least could be a taunt and drag giants and large problems away from friends to give them a chance. I could assist. But now if I'm to do that, I'd wind up causing more problems as my sanity tanks and I'm attacked by well, everything.

But, these are just my opinions.

No one says anything has to change. I'm only suggesting ideas.

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Asparagus    9,107
-And with the topic of speed, I love possibly being able to gather enemy attention to you instead of others. Like you call it out, shout at it. Taunt it and steal it's attention to draw it where you want, but maybe it doesn't last for a horribly long time.

I don't think that would fit his "politeness" O__O

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Twil    4

I like this idea. If the log meter runs out, you're taking starvation damage AND full damage from whatever's hitting you, so you'd still really want to avoid that. It also gives you a way to kind-of-heal while a werebeaver (something that's pretty much not an option right now).

or die when the log meter runs out, so you try to keep it almost full (but not full or you turn back i guess).

As for how to make the Werebeaver an attractive option without turning it into an unchecked rampaging pillager of worlds, that's tricky.

Allow woodie to only chop down trees but can no longer chop anything else (mines,saplings,berry bushes,cant hammer down things....).

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osmRhodey    1,461

I find it funny how confused half of this thread became. Haha! I myself, am not really interested in some big new changes. Sure the ideas are interesting and I love to discuss, but the basic jest of this all is not to completely change it all...again.

My main want for changes are going based on the normal Woodie from single player. About the newest thing would be the log meter becoming a defense mechanism. Everything else, refining damage, refining weather stability, that's merely based on the beaver itself.

The rest, well that's wishful thinking because I am okay with sanity drain and most of it, I just don't want the beaver becoming a burden since he can't do anything.

Heck, maybe have it so friends can put hats on you or that certain hats remain on.

Only big change I want is a hairier werebeaver ghost! Haha!!

That is all. Thanks for the discussions.

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Shirsh    129

But he 100% solver of "No flint! Gimme a flint!" problem, sound like pretty useful team-member. Not fighter but great runner with night vision: couple of fast bites and running away. Avoiding terrorbeaks so easy for beaver, stuff for sanity recovering after transforming stays with him. How could it be a burden?

I suppose I feel him very useful because almost never played him in single so doesn't feel nerf too much.

 

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Mario384    1,081

I still feel he needs a sight damage buff and sanity not to affect him as the beaver.  Currently, All werebeaver is is running away from shadow creatures and attempting to return to normal.  I personally wish that sanity wouldnt affect him UNTIL he turns back, because it doesnt make much sense that the werebever is attacked by shadow creatures.

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osmRhodey    1,461

But he 100% solver of "No flint! Gimme a flint!" problem, sound like pretty useful team-member. Not fighter but great runner with night vision: couple of fast bites and running away. Avoiding terrorbeaks so easy for beaver, stuff for sanity recovering after transforming stays with him. How could it be a burden?

I suppose I feel him very useful because almost never played him in single so doesn't feel nerf too much.

 

This is, again, all matters of opinion.

And as for night vision, moggles are implemented, but we still wait for caves.

 

 

Burden because the intense seasons require you to be with a buddy at almost all times, especially since full moon is short in summer and your gear will drop(hat and whatever). If you're not careful you could wind up running the risk of losing something and dying in a stupid way.

 

Sanity is easy to avoid but a pain to cure when you need to focus on other stuff. That's why I do my best to stay as sane as possible so that resources can be spent elsewhere.

I love and hate that your gear stays on you. Love because no one can steal. Hate because you can't do anything with it until you turn back.

And often enough, I don't want to turn back asap because I'd like to help the team and use the time to my advantage. But with how he's weaker than a normal spear wielding survivor, I'd rather not risk it, nor is it worth the risk.

 

It's not even so much the player is a burden as it is the beaver itself. Why stay as a beaver? It's pretty much pointless now. :\

I've mostly mained Woodie, play others but he is main, and this is, indeed, a nerfing. Not saying, never said, it's a horrible nerfing. But now it feels like less of a fun game play thing and more of a stupid thing you don't ever want happening ever at all, similar to Willow low sanity.

 

I'll need to play more of the game updated this way myself. It still just kind of irks me a little.

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osmRhodey    1,461

I still feel he needs a sight damage buff and sanity not to affect him as the beaver.  Currently, All werebeaver is is running away from shadow creatures and attempting to return to normal.  I personally wish that sanity wouldnt affect him UNTIL he turns back, because it doesnt make much sense that the werebever is attacked by shadow creatures.

 

Damage buff I agree. Even if it's super small.

 

Gameplay wise, I agree.

Story wise, he could be fighting for control.

 

What say, if you still have Lucy on your person it reduces the sanity drain? But she has to be in your inventory hotbar, not a backpack.

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DarkXero    2,885
As for how to make the Werebeaver an attractive option without turning it into an unchecked rampaging pillager of worlds, that's tricky. If he was restored to his single-player glory, then that would be a griefer's paradise, for sure. So, before, the Werebeaver was good for... chopping, mining, demolishing, fighting, tanking, weather/night, and definitely bad for collecting, exploring, and building. It's still good for chopping, mining, and night, and it's decent for weather. Obviously we can't make it good for demolishing or fighting without crossing over into griefer facilitation, but we could make it better at tanking. The two main ways I can think of doing that would be to use the log meter as health again (ideally with as much or more absorption than before, considering his attacks are feeble now), and/or giving him some way to pull aggro (right-click an enemy?).

 

The unchecked rampaging is kept in check by the log meter raising when gnawing.

It also takes longer gnawing than using a hammer to tear down, say, an alchemy machine.

 

But this is for everything. You need like 3 gnaws to dig up a sapling, for example.

 

So people would end up prefering to just steal materials for a hammer and tear everything down.

Hammers aren't even science machine tier.

 

Another rampage check we need to mention here is that the werebeaver can no longer eat saplings or grass, neither can Woodie.

So griefers can't go around eating non-renewables.

They still can dig them up and burn them on a campfire. Or directly light them up.

 

If people really are bothered about Woodie, structures can be made ungnawable.

But really, if you can't kick people, then a guy with a hammer will crush your stuff.

At least with a werebeaver coming to your face you get a warning to prepare the ban button.

 

I see no reason to not make the werebeaver immune to weather and give him the extra damage and extra resistance.

If worried about pvp, then make the damage go to Woodie's health, and also make it increase his log meter.

So sustained damage will kick you out of the form. Any Wigfrid will make sure of that.

 

Dams would be cool.

 

Honestly Woodie's current incarnation is pretty well rounded for a multiplayer environment. He can collect stupid amounts of wood that you will never be able to use, mine more rocks, flint, nitre, and moon rock than you ever thought you wanted all the while looking cool with his talking sidekick supreme axe of destruction and now he can pretty much morph between his forms at will for the speed boost, night vision, and cuddle factor! He has almost no issues and the vast majority of the problems people have been listing can be fixed with a single word, *teamwork* He was given 25% Beaver armour and a natural umbrella. All of my wants for Woodie have been met, now if you'll excuse me I have some massive deforestation to take care of.

 

As of now, the werebeaver is a gimmick.

I only see ONE use for the werebeaver.

And that use is entering a server on any season, since you start with an axe, and you can turn into a pickaxe and a shovel with it.

Practical to get flint from boulders, or emergency resources from withered stuff, and that's really it.

 

But in any other case? You have to be dumb to turn into a werebeaver.

Chopping a tree takes roughly 10 log points, (say 8-15). You swing faster and you need less chops than other characters.

All you need to do to not turn werebeaver is to eat 1-2 logs per tree.

And you plant pinecones to get sanity for free and to increase the meter later.

 

If I see you as a werebeaver, I assume you are on Day 1, or that you want to drop your sanity to farm nightmare fuel.

 

Woodie can replace people, but that's it. Replace. He doesn't bring anything to the table.

I would rather have a Wigfrid with a torch, three tools, and a backpack, instead of a werebeaver lingering around.

 

Why not just allow him to level up his beaver form with Living Logs?...

 

Do you let WX-78 eat gears? I would like more to have dark swords for myself.

 

 

What I would do is:

a) take Woodie as it is now

-- Woodie will decrease the log meter as time passes

-- Woodie will decrease the log meter if he chops a lot of trees without eating wood

-- Woodie will go werebeaver after reaching 0 in the log meter

b) give the werebeaver, the singleplayer werebeaver stats, while keeping some changes

-- Weather immunity

-- Tentacle Spots

-- Damage resistance

-- Werebeaver keeps inventory

-- Sanity plummets when werebeaver, shadows will get pissed

-- Werebeaver can't eat non-renewables

c) change the following

-- While in werebeaver mode, the log meter will increase with time

-- Via time, the log meter will fill up after one day (480)

-- If the werebeaver takes damage, the damage will affect Woodie's life and will increase the log meter

-- If the werebeaver eats wood, the log meter will increase

-- When log meter reaches 100, werebeaver will turn into Woodie

 

Singleplayer Woodie is already an asset. It just needs tuning.

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Mario384    1,081

Thing is though, I personally would like to be able to stay Werebeaver and be able to function pretty well.  Currently, if you stay in werebeaver mode for a few days,  you'll get tons of nightmare beaks chasing you 24/7 and not being able to help anyone.  Guy wants trees cut down?  Take a bite, run from the army of Terrorbeaks, come back, take a bite, etc...  It's not fun.  I feel if simply Werebeaver got a damage boost, some healing method, and immunity from insanity monsters he would be so much better than he is now.  But currently, he's just a character most will avoid.

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osmRhodey    1,461

I will be writing a topic in the suggestions and feedback thread, purely for possible altercations

Work with what is here, no returning to single player Woodie

I will post only the possible changes and nothing more.

 

Any more concerns, questions, etc. can be discussed here.

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ohhaithere    69

Nah nahh nahh, let him keep sucking at fighting. Change whatever else you feel like, but this loser shouldn't be able to fight ever again.

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osmRhodey    1,461

Nah nahh nahh, let him keep sucking at fighting. Change whatever else you feel like, but this loser shouldn't be able to fight ever again.

 

post-386662-0-72611700-1436653155_thumb.

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CaptainFun    432

Woodie himself is fine. He has an awesome axe that can easily get you more wood than you will ever need, an incredibly easy sanity solution with pinecones, and some cold resist to boot. Honestly, Woodie himself feels almost as rounded as Wilson, if not better (I think that might say more about Wilson, but I digress).

 

The problem is Werebeaver. I don't particularly care about combat as Werebeaver, but it really feels like there's no point in transforming. It really does feel more like a curse in DST. And by curse I mean nuisance.

 

Werebeaver can knock down trees fast, sure, but so can Woodie- and he doesn't have the super fast sanity drain. Just slam back entire logs (which you will have plenty of) and you're solid.

 

I can see why Woodie received the changes he did because he is in a fragile position in terms of game balance- a lot of good and creative changes for the most part- but right now, he's not very fun. 

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CaptainFun    432

End of the story is that Woodie feels like a buffed Wilson. And in my opinion that's a good thing, eh.

It makes him very easy to play but I think that it's the wrong approach to character balance. 

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Johnnyprofane    137

I actually really like pretty much all of osmRhodey's ideas.  Having a way to cool off, like jumping in a pond or something, would be great.  The more I think about it the more I support the werebeaver being tankier but not deadlier.  So what if you bumped up his damage resistance to say, 85-90%, kept his damage like that of an axe, but took away the stun when he gets hit.  I acknowledge this wouldn't actually help with the sanity drain, but if you could ignore a terrorbeak attacking you and keep chopping anyways, you could transform back/continue working easier. Anyways, because the logmeter also acts as your hunger in werebeaver form, i'm reluctant to accept it as a damage buffer again.  It would mean that you'd hemorrhage life if you didn't watch it carefully (maybe that is intended, but I still think it isn't ideal).

 

That's all.

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Chris1448    12,956

Guys! Why not just give woodie his damage buff back but have his damage stay as axe damage against players for PvP purposes and give him back his damage/weather resistance?

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Twil    4

Another option is to give werebeaver no armor bonus,no damage bonus but keep equipped items and benefits from items (note you must equip before going werebeaver). Werebeaver also heal with the log meter just like singleplayer.

 

You see his items bar but you cant move or unequip anything in werebeaver (its more to indicate the durability of your equipments).

 

Log meter gets full: Turn back in human form. Empty log meter = dead. So its better to keep it almost full (90s/100) for combat.

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Calomer    3

Twil: I LOVE your idea, as it completely scales up with level..

This would mean it is almost the same with regular form except wood meter + sanity check (two major punishment) vs night vision + speed + ability to dig stuff up...

 

This would be a major buff (if you ask me), however, it is still quite significantly worse than wx with lightning strike..

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