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Delannion

Q: Should random fires during Summer be implemented in DST? A:No.

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Delannion    37

Full Disclosure:  This was by far my most-hated feature in RoG.  Actually I think it's the only feature I truly hate in DS.

 

Should it be implemented in DST?  Of course I give it a resounding "Heck No!"

 

Trying to keep a single-player base/world from burning down was bad enough, I can't even imagine with a 6-10 person base / world.  It would be like every player is their own personal troll, starting fires just off-screen wherever they travel.

 

And as for the Ice Flingomatic? Ain't nobody got time to deal with 10 of those things, let alone the gears, not to mention the troll-factor when they put out your own (endothermic...) campfire.

 

 

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nachiketaom    0

Even I think, setting bases on fire is not a cool idea. But that gives summer a taste, a scorch. I think it is possible to balance this feature by limiting fires to grasses or twigs placed in the open for long and then the fire might migrate to nearby stuff. Or the charring of food stuff lying outside an ice box. Or may be they can implement something like a machine that needs a bucket of water everyday to spray around it and keep a base cooler (preventing any fire). Bucket needs to be implemented too and the summer camp would have a higher probability to be set up near ponds.... i think that sounds natural.

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rezecib    3,149

I actually really really enjoyed summer the first few times I played it, because it was so tense. But the thing was that the more I played it, the more annoying and less fun it became. I think the thing that really took the fun out of it was that the fires could start just off-screen; perhaps having a FrustumCheck just before it catches fire would solve that issue, although the problem there is that FrustumCheck is local, while fires need to be being set on the server.

 

The other problem with summer, though, is that it provides additional challenge with nothing to do in that time. There's no walrus camps or anything else special to hunt. So the optimal strategy is an exceptionally boring one: make a minimal camp out in the desert and sleep through the summer, eating cactus. This approach won't work in DST, though, because sleeping no longer skips time.

 

But... The nice thing about all of this... is that it's perfectly viable to just disable summer entirely. You're not missing out on any potential rewards, unless you really want those fireproof large chests that were completely impractical anyway since you can only get one every 70 days.

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Delannion    37

@rezecib Disabling summer is by far the worst option - it means the design of Summer is so flawed that the game is more fun without it.  I don't think anyone wants that.  In fact I get a kick out of the overheating aspect of summer.  It's a big challenge especially in the first couple years.  I definitely agree about the lack of specific things to do.  Summer should have some compelling reason(s) to leave the base, and MacTusk is a great example.  Spring and Autumn don't need anything specific..the lack of deadly environmental effects is reason enough to leave the base.

 

But yeah, the bottom line is the random fires are too punishing, with too little counter-play.  It's like lightning if lightning rods required a gear to build, fuel to run, had a tiny radius, and put out your campfire.  And yes, this gripe is just as much about the Ice Flingomatic as it is about the fires. But mostly it's about the fires.  

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rezecib    3,149

@Delannion, Well, the reason I suggested disabling summer is because it's something that could be done as soon as RoG content gets added. As much as I would like to see summer get a rework, I don't think it would happen for a while, and perhaps not ever. It's kind of... past the time for it. Maybe it will get a rework as part of Through the Ages, one can hope...

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DarkXero    2,885

1) Make wildfires not happen outside the screen, or the edge.

2) Tune up the volume of the smoldering noise.

 

As much as I hate them, wildfires are the staple of summer, like freezing is to winter and moisture is to spring.

 

Unless you put a hidration component that goes bonkers in summer and requires you to eat veggies/fruits/cactus or get water from ponds or collect water from rain. Or a heatstroke component that makes your sanity go down when your temp is very high, and generates fake resources, hallucinations beyond shadow creatures.

 

As for summer rewards, how about having a special wolf like warg spawn in the desert, that drops a special pelt that you can use to make a hammock, that is like a super tent: it has limited uses, restores health, sanity, BUT it slows your hunger drop rate, due to your relaxed state.

 

Or make the ice hat not suck (remove the movement drop, make it so it negates overheating, make it so you can't recharge it with ice) and make it require hair from that special wolf.

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The Letter W    5,459

@Delannion, Well, the reason I suggested disabling summer is because it's something that could be done as soon as RoG content gets added. As much as I would like to see summer get a rework, I don't think it would happen for a while, and perhaps not ever. It's kind of... past the time for it. Maybe it will get a rework as part of Through the Ages, one can hope...

 

I hope it does. I like the idea behind it, but it just needs some extra tidbits to give it the same kapow winter has. 

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Kzisor    1,058

@rezecib, with networking the FrustumCheck could happen on the client and send that data to the server to determine whether fires should be started or not. Doesn't seem like it would be too much of a stretch to implement either; it would just need it's own RPC call.

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rezecib    3,149

@Kzisor, Yeah, but lag would significantly interfere, I think. How useful is a FrustumCheck at 2s delay if you're running along a road?

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tetrified    166

1) Make wildfires not happen outside the screen, or the edge.

2) Tune up the volume of the smoldering noise.

 

As much as I hate them, wildfires are the staple of summer, like freezing is to winter and moisture is to spring.

 

Unless you put a hidration component that goes bonkers in summer and requires you to eat veggies/fruits/cactus or get water from ponds or collect water from rain. Or a heatstroke component that makes your sanity go down when your temp is very high, and generates fake resources, hallucinations beyond shadow creatures.

 

As for summer rewards, how about having a special wolf like warg spawn in the desert, that drops a special pelt that you can use to make a hammock, that is like a super tent: it has limited uses, restores health, sanity, BUT it slows your hunger drop rate, due to your relaxed state.

 

Or make the ice hat not suck (remove the movement drop, make it so it negates overheating, make it so you can't recharge it with ice) and make it require hair from that special wolf.

 

honestly I really like removing the burning sensations, and including dehydration in some way, shape, or form.

 

EDIT: I mean how many places on earth can you think of where things randomly catch fire in the summer? I've only got one in my head, but I can think of a ton of places where you can freeze to death in winter in half a day (24h) if you're not wearing winter clothes.

 

I'm not asking for absolute realism here, but dehydration would make a ton more sense than stuff randomly catching fire and the heat killing you as much as it does. (plus, I would actually leave my tiny camp in the summer if stuff didn't just randomly catch fire when I left, as it stands, the punishment for leaving in the summer is just too great and I can just sleep through it)

 

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Delannion    37

If nothing else, fires need to only start smoldering on-screen.  They also should only start during the day, and should smolder for slightly longer before bursting into flame.  

 

If there's ever a situation where a player is attentive, reacts quickly, and their base still catches on fire, that's a flawed mechanic.  Right now the mechanic is flawed.

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avilmask    104

Well, back in DS all world was made around the player, and was alive only around him. In DST, looks like world was made the same way. You will not see a random stale seeds around the world. It's because birds spawn only near players. As well as not revealed by any player spider eggs doesn't grow. So there shouldn't be more issues with fire than in single player RoG.

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Delannion    37

Well, back in DS all world was made around the player, and was alive only around him. In DST, looks like world was made the same way. You will not see a random stale seeds around the world. It's because birds spawn only near players. As well as not revealed by any player spider eggs doesn't grow. So there shouldn't be more issues with fire than in single player RoG.

 

That's not entirely accurate.  Off-screen resources use different algorithms, but they do still progress, grow, and change.  For example, Beefalo herds still grow even if you ignore them for awhile, spider dens still grow, etc.  I believe it is correct that random fires won't burn down the world when the player is nowhere close, but this post isn't about those fires...because they don't exist...

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Learner    16

Well, one of the things about RoG world settings, is that wildfires are configurable. You can set how often they happen.

I'll admit that at the moment, Summer has its ways. But it's not entirely unbelievable. I swear I could remember various news stories about wildfires that started in Africa, back when I was growing up. Something about the grass or the weather being too dry.

Summer doesn't really provide much on its own, and it doesn't give much of a reason to travel. But... then again... why does it need to? The thing about every season, is that they all have their things.

Spring: Lots of rain, expect plenty of frogs. Crops will grow faster, and no rabbits can be caught.
Summer: Lots of heat. Overheating is common (as might fires), and the only ice you can find, is the ice you had stored away. And it's not like you could take that with you wherever you go... (The general point here is that Summer does not encourage you to go traveling, especially if you're going by thermal stones.) Cacti sprout flowers that do great work when it comes to restoring your stats. Red hounds will also show up, who may provide red gems.
Autumn: Lots of... leaves. This is the nice season basically. Birchnut trees will give more nuts during this season, and this makes them easier to spread. Enough said about Autumn though.
Winter: Lots of snow. Freezing is a possibility. No crops or plants will grow, save for trees. Travel is 'limited' but it's still feasible. Thermal stones can be reheated at fires anywhere, and in more desperate times, things can be set ablaze to deter freezing. (This is what especially makes Winter different from Summer. You can't chill a thermal stone quite as easily as you could heat it up.) Winter also has the infamous McTusk, Winter birds, and Pengulls.

With all of that being said... Winter does have more stuff compared to Summer. And maybe that's all Summer just really needs. More stuff.

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RalphKastro    1,337
I'll admit that at the moment, Summer has its ways. But it's not entirely unbelievable. I swear I could remember various news stories about wildfires that started in Africa, back when I was growing up. Something about the grass or the weather being too dry.
 actually, this is not all that uncommon. In some biomes, it's even considered a normal and seasonal thing to happen(not in Pine forest though. Never on those). But I just don't find it believable for people to die of overheating before dehydration, neither do I find it more fun anyway.

The thing about every season, is that they all have their things.
except for summer, which has winter things with "Summer" or "Cold" or "Endothermic" slapped on them.

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Asparagus    9,114

Well, the best solution is to prepare though... I guess... always...

 

:) 

 

@rezecib, And we're not even mentioning the giant that spawns during summer!

 

^ this guy's photo XD

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avilmask    104

 actually, this is not all that uncommon. In some biomes, it's even considered a normal and seasonal thing to happen(not in Pine forest though. Never on those). But I just don't find it believable for people to die of overheating before dehydration, neither do I find it more fun anyway.

 

Erm, what about sun burns and sun strikes? It's most basic stuff that can happen to you. More complicated issues connected to the body inner pressure. Is common for people to faint from high pressure. In DS, damage dealt by overheating just simplified.

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RalphKastro    1,337
Erm, what about sun burns and sun strikes? It's most basic stuff that can happen to you. More complicated issues connected to the body inner pressure. Is common for people to faint from high pressure. In DS, damage dealt by overheating just simplified.
But if the heat is slowly increasing, wouldn't people pass out from dehydration before doing it from overheating? I'm not saying it's impossible, just that dehydration feels much more probable on something like just Summer-based high temperature. 
(I have almost no idea what I'm talking about, though. Just saying what sounds more plausible in my mind. Chances are I am wrong.)

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Asparagus    9,114
But if the heat is slowly increasing, wouldn't people pass out from dehydration before doing it from overheating? I'm not saying it's impossible, just that dehydration feels much more probable on something like just Summer-based high temperature.  (I have almost no idea what I'm talking about, though. Just saying what sounds more plausible in my mind. Chances are I am wrong.)

 

And now we add a "Thirst" Mechanic...

 

I would imagine Wickerbottom trying to drink water from a pond...

 

Wickerbottom: "I. WILL. NOT. DRINK. UNFILTERED. WATER!"

Wilson: For Science! *Gets a stomach flu... dies

 

 

O___O

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avilmask    104

But if the heat is slowly increasing, wouldn't people pass out from dehydration before doing it from overheating? I'm not saying it's impossible, just that dehydration feels much more probable on something like just Summer-based high temperature. 

(I have almost no idea what I'm talking about, though. Just saying what sounds more plausible in my mind. Chances are I am wrong.)

 

No, they not.

When you have a temperature from illness, in order to protect organs (and brain) from heat damage, you  don't need to drink more, you need cold bedclothes and ice (and drugs to help body regulate temperature). With sun is the same. Without special clothes you will pass out BEFORE dehydration (due to inner overheat). You will pass out from dehydration if you already have protective clothes (i.e. how people deal with overheating in desert).

 

Sorry for my slow reaction :]

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RalphKastro    1,337

No, they not.

When you have a temperature from illness, in order to protect organs (and brain) from heat damage, you  don't need to drink more, you need cold bedclothes and ice (and drugs to help body regulate temperature). With sun is the same. Without special clothes you will pass out BEFORE dehydration (due to inner overheat). You will pass out from dehydration if you already have protective clothes (i.e. how people deal with overheating in desert).

 

Sorry for my slow reaction :]

See? I was wrong :)

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