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Do these characters need tweaking?


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The reason why current default mode is not enough for multiple players, is the very same reason you pointed out. Does that make more sence?

No, it doesn't. The thing I was pointing out was that some characters are less of use than others, no need in changing the amount resources.
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No, it doesn't. The thing I was pointing out was that some characters are less of use than others, no need in changing the amount resources.

Again, I say: exactly. Because the characters are nerfed so much, there is no way in the world that surviving properly as it's set on default would be possible.

Default barely works for one player. The nerf of characters' strength and armor sucks so much. Srsly why is there not a mod already for this? No, but seriously, am I the only one here who thinks DST is impossible on default settings right now?

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Again, I say: exactly. Because the characters are nerfed so much, there is no way in the world that surviving properly as it's set on default would be possible.

Default barely works for one player. The nerf of characters' strength and armor sucks so much. Srsly why is there not a mod already for this? No, but seriously, am I the only one here who thinks DST is impossible on default settings right now?

Yes, because it's nowhere close to impossible.

The damage and armor nerfs just increase the relative value of traps and followers.

It's way easier now to just use traps for spiders and bunnies, pigmen for beefalo and werepigs, neutral treeguard and an ice staff for deerclops (or a beefalo herd and an ice staff)

Basic effective strategies have never been "trade hits". Either kiting for no damage was done, or followers/neutral mobs were used.

As a result, the damage nerf is not a big deal.

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Again, I say: exactly. Because the characters are nerfed so much, there is no way in the world that surviving properly as it's set on default would be possible.

Default barely works for one player. The nerf of characters' strength and armor sucks so much. Srsly why is there not a mod already for this? No, but seriously, am I the only one here who thinks DST is impossible on default settings right now?

The most reasonable thing to do is to rework the nerfs, not reduce the difficulty of acquiring resources.

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Wolfgang - While very powerful in single-player, in multiplayer he might become a liability to his team because of his hunger rate. He can consume foods up to three times faster than other characters if he doesn't stay wimpy all the time. More players mean more resource consumption, meaning that needing more resources puts your team at a disadvantage because they also need to consume resources.

 

 

True, he's the kind you don't want in your gang.. XD

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Wickerbottom is not as usefull as you think, and once they make the meat effigy valuable again (against the telltale heart) willson will be a good mp character again..

 

Dude Wickerbottom is a must have in Together.  Well not a must have but just as Webber and Wigfried were Easy modes in RoG, WIckerbottom turns a Together experience into Easy mode real fast.

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Yes, because it's nowhere close to impossible.

The damage and armor nerfs just increase the relative value of traps and followers.

It's way easier now to just use traps for spiders and bunnies, pigmen for beefalo and werepigs, neutral treeguard and an ice staff for deerclops (or a beefalo herd and an ice staff)

Basic effective strategies have never been "trade hits". Either kiting for no damage was done, or followers/neutral mobs were used.

As a result, the damage nerf is not a big deal.

Well, that's just forced way of saying "how you should play this game". I'm used to melee fights from my own weapons, and many others sure are. This is what makes professionals of the game. You don't rely on some pigs, staffs and all other crap, but your own strength with a weapon, and you learn how to counter your enemy's attacks and attack them in between. None's gonna be happy nor learn how to play the game properly. Even with wolfgang (Full stomach), full armour + weaponry and a lot pigs I could not beat Warrior pigs like I could before. Before I lost maximum of half of my health, but in DST I lost 3 quarters and while in single player I had more healing stuff than I would ever need, in DST I could barely scrap to get half of my health, and the OPness of Dragonfruits wouldn't do crap. You see, DST was supposed to be something that made you reliant on others and not just yourself, however, if your friends are badly hurt or unable to fight for other reasons, it all becomes up to YOU to deal with the monsters attacking you all. And with twice as less strength and -20% armour, this becomes impossible. One person down, and so is the rest of the team: Watch markiplier's and Bob's DST video part 2; it proves my point.

 

The most reasonable thing to do is to rework the nerfs, not reduce the difficulty of acquiring resources.

Actually it's both. While I could kill stuff like I normally do in single player, me and all my teammates could not get enough of the resources to sustain everything we need. If default map is just enough for one person to handle, then how big would the map need to be to get enough resources for 64 people? Or just 4 people? The reason why everyone wants DST so badly is because it would enable people to play Together, no matter if you're a pro or a noob, instead of having to challenge yourself every single time. The only way 64 people could actually survive in one map, is if the map is Extra huge, it has a lot of resources and if everyone has enough strength to fight for themselves. Cause, say in SP, I kill a Koalefant; good for me, I get all the goodies, and will be able to have enough food for this and the next day overall, but in DST, even if you have just 2 players; they would need to work together to cancel out the strength nerf AND the resources the players would get would barely be enough for them to survive one day. Because of this DST becomes boring. Killing a Tree guard or any boss, or even just killing some hounds becomes very boring, because you're not progressing at all. You're going through a harder version of Adventure mode. And seriously, it takes 5 hits on average to kill ONE spider? If DST spiders would be in real life, I'd stab them and kill them with that <= just one hit basically. And it doesn't matter if they're the size of a football. One stab, and they're dead!

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Actually it's both. While I could kill stuff like I normally do in single player, me and all my teammates could not get enough of the resources to sustain everything we need. If default map is just enough for one person to handle, then how big would the map need to be to get enough resources for 64 people? Or just 4 people? The reason why everyone wants DST so badly is because it would enable people to play Together, no matter if you're a pro or a noob, instead of having to challenge yourself every single time. The only way 64 people could actually survive in one map, is if the map is Extra huge, it has a lot of resources and if everyone has enough strength to fight for themselves. Cause, say in SP, I kill a Koalefant; good for me, I get all the goodies, and will be able to have enough food for this and the next day overall, but in DST, even if you have just 2 players; they would need to work together to cancel out the strength nerf AND the resources the players would get would barely be enough for them to survive one day. Because of this DST becomes boring. Killing a Tree guard or any boss, or even just killing some hounds becomes very boring, because you're not progressing at all. You're going through a harder version of Adventure mode. And seriously, it takes 5 hits on average to kill ONE spider? If DST spiders would be in real life, I'd stab them and kill them with that <= just one hit basically. And it doesn't matter if they're the size of a football. One stab, and they're dead!

As I said, more players mean more players to do work. Yes, more players means more resource-consumption, but that is compensated by having work done more efficiently.

And also, sharing is a thing, you shouldn't let your friends syarve while you have tons of meatballs in your inventory.

It's Don't Starve TOGETHER, you work together to get stuff faster but you need to split up said stuff for each other.

SP: Get stuff alone, keep stuff for self.

MP: Get stuff easier and faster together, share stuff to each other.

IMO, removing/reworking the damage and armor nerf would be enough to significantly lessen DST's current grindiness.

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Well, that's just forced way of saying "how you should play this game". I'm used to melee fights from my own weapons, and many others sure are. This is what makes professionals of the game. You don't rely on some pigs, staffs and all other crap, but your own strength with a weapon, and you learn how to counter your enemy's attacks and attack them in between. None's gonna be happy nor learn how to play the game properly. Even with wolfgang (Full stomach), full armour + weaponry and a lot pigs I could not beat Warrior pigs like I could before. Before I lost maximum of half of my health, but in DST I lost 3 quarters and while in single player I had more healing stuff than I would ever need, in DST I could barely scrap to get half of my health, and the OPness of Dragonfruits wouldn't do crap. You see, DST was supposed to be something that made you reliant on others and not just yourself, however, if your friends are badly hurt or unable to fight for other reasons, it all becomes up to YOU to deal with the monsters attacking you all. And with twice as less strength and -20% armour, this becomes impossible. One person down, and so is the rest of the team: Watch markiplier's and Bob's DST video part 2; it proves my point.

Actually it's both. While I could kill stuff like I normally do in single player, me and all my teammates could not get enough of the resources to sustain everything we need. If default map is just enough for one person to handle, then how big would the map need to be to get enough resources for 64 people? Or just 4 people? The reason why everyone wants DST so badly is because it would enable people to play Together, no matter if you're a pro or a noob, instead of having to challenge yourself every single time. The only way 64 people could actually survive in one map, is if the map is Extra huge, it has a lot of resources and if everyone has enough strength to fight for themselves. Cause, say in SP, I kill a Koalefant; good for me, I get all the goodies, and will be able to have enough food for this and the next day overall, but in DST, even if you have just 2 players; they would need to work together to cancel out the strength nerf AND the resources the players would get would barely be enough for them to survive one day. Because of this DST becomes boring. Killing a Tree guard or any boss, or even just killing some hounds becomes very boring, because you're not progressing at all. You're going through a harder version of Adventure mode. And seriously, it takes 5 hits on average to kill ONE spider? If DST spiders would be in real life, I'd stab them and kill them with that <= just one hit basically. And it doesn't matter if they're the size of a football. One stab, and they're dead!

What good players do is use the most efficient strategy for the situation.

Having to rely on health and armor to win fights is the most crude noob strategy don't starve offers.

I'm not sure where you started thinking losing half your health in a fight as wolfgang was anything other than a disaster, but you're wrong.

You are not a pro at this game, because only a noob has problems with spiders.

Only a noob would refuse to adapt and demand the game mechanics change so they stop failing instead of even attempting to improve themselves.

Stop complaining about the game being too hard. Accept that you need to improve.

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What good players do is use the most efficient strategy for the situation.

Having to rely on health and armor to win fights is the most crude noob strategy don't starve offers.

I'm not sure where you started thinking losing half your health in a fight as wolfgang was anything other than a disaster, but you're wrong.

You are not a pro at this game, because only a noob has problems with spiders.

Only a noob would refuse to adapt and demand the game mechanics change so they stop failing instead of even attempting to improve themselves.

Stop complaining about the game being too hard. Accept that you need to improve.

You call me a noob? I lived for over 650 days without any mods that make stuff easier and without using the console. I'm just not the type of player that relies on anyone, and I shouldn't because when playing DST with other players, I've done most help, and the only reason I died was because of lag and because of the nerf. When fighting I use armour, weapons and healing items. Rarely do I rely on pigs and such. I'm just different type of pro, not a noob and DST with its nerf has made my skill into a complete nothing.

 

A noob would be someone sho just strikes without thinking and having the right equipment. True, may be pigs and such are good help, but I don't want to rely on them, considering that they take a lot of resources, while I fight just to get them. The only time I used a console in my near 700 day world was when I despawned the tons of Rocklobsters that were there (In wiki their breeding is listed as a bug, so it's just fair). And you know something, I do use the help of followers. The rocklobsters were great help in defeating the dragonfly. I also used the Weather pain to kill another Dragonfly. I went to the caves, found ruins, killed the ancient guardian and repeated that TWICE. During nightmare phases I knew what to do and I didn't die there, even with lag.

 

While in DST I actually made a plan to use pigs as an advantage to kill Pig warriors.

 

Does this sound something like a noob would be capable of?

 

The only reason why I looked like a noob in the DST was because of lag and the nerf. Take those things out, and I'm one of the most professional DS players ever. So suck on that and stop calling me a noob. I do plan stuff, but I don't rely on followers as much as you probably would and that's because I don't want to: I didn't need to until DST's stupid nerf.

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What good players do is use the most efficient strategy for the situation.

Having to rely on health and armor to win fights is the most crude noob strategy don't starve offers.

I'm not sure where you started thinking losing half your health in a fight as wolfgang was anything other than a disaster, but you're wrong.

You are not a pro at this game, because only a noob has problems with spiders.

Only a noob would refuse to adapt and demand the game mechanics change so they stop failing instead of even attempting to improve themselves.

Stop complaining about the game being too hard. Accept that you need to improve.

While this would be a valid argument in Singleplayer, it isn't in the current Multiplayer because of the crappy damage and armor nerfs.

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While this would be a valid argument in Singleplayer, it isn't in the current Multiplayer because of the crappy damage and armor nerfs.

Combat is a little grindy, but it still isn't difficult to survive.

Anything you could kite before, you still can, it's just harder to brute force solutions (which wasn't a great idea before either)

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You call me a noob? I lived for over 650 days without any mods that make stuff easier and without using the console. I'm just not the type of player that relies on anyone, and I shouldn't because when playing DST with other players, I've done most help, and the only reason I died was because of lag and because of the nerf. When fighting I use armour, weapons and healing items. Rarely do I rely on pigs and such. I'm just different type of pro, not a noob and DST with its nerf has made my skill into a complete nothing.

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Combat is a little grindy, but it still isn't difficult to survive.

Anything you could kite before, you still can, it's just harder to brute force solutions (which wasn't a great idea before either)

This would be legit if it wasn't for the fact that the bosses and giants aggro on you before you have any time to think. You now have to use the power of fire and if you start using stuff like torches or firestaffs while the boss has been damaged before, you won't know when to stop using the fire damage items to get legit loot. If you don't use the power of fire it's going to take you most of the day to kill a boss. And if you're on your own out, scavenging for certain supplies, it will take you a whole day just to kill a boss with a spear. And with lag you're probably going to lose most of your health as armour is just beefalo manure now. Even if two or more people agroo on a boss, the loot that the boss drops is not going to benefit all the players enough, as they could easily just harvest more and better stuff that would benefit them. And lets not talk about the sanity drop you get when fighting bosses. In normal DS you already lose like a third of your sanity fighting a boss. Fighting a boss in DST would be like standing around evil flowers all day. The reason why combat nerfs need to be removed is because the amount of loot that you get from hard fighting is the same as easy harvesting. For example, a treeguard is hard to kill in SP and even harder to kill in MP. Its loot is 6 living logs and 1 monster meat for going through a hell hole. That is the equivalent of chopping down two Totally normal trees and killing a spider. See what I'm talking about? The nerf has not just made combat almost a useless way of fighting your enemies but also a taboo on getting loot! No wonder why people make friendly servers PvP: because you don't get as much nerf as without PvP!
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This would be legit if it wasn't for the fact that the bosses and giants aggro on you before you have any time to think. You now have to use the power of fire and if you start using stuff like torches or firestaffs while the boss has been damaged before, you won't know when to stop using the fire damage items to get legit loot. If you don't use the power of fire it's going to take you most of the day to kill a boss. And if you're on your own out, scavenging for certain supplies, it will take you a whole day just to kill a boss with a spear. And with lag you're probably going to lose most of your health as armour is just beefalo manure now. Even if two or more people agroo on a boss, the loot that the boss drops is not going to benefit all the players enough, as they could easily just harvest more and better stuff that would benefit them. And lets not talk about the sanity drop you get when fighting bosses. In normal DS you already lose like a third of your sanity fighting a boss. Fighting a boss in DST would be like standing around evil flowers all day. The reason why combat nerfs need to be removed is because the amount of loot that you get from hard fighting is the same as easy harvesting. For example, a treeguard is hard to kill in SP and even harder to kill in MP. Its loot is 6 living logs and 1 monster meat for going through a hell hole. That is the equivalent of chopping down two Totally normal trees and killing a spider. See what I'm talking about? The nerf has not just made combat almost a useless way of fighting your enemies but also a taboo on getting loot! No wonder why people make friendly servers PvP: because you don't get as much nerf as without PvP!

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Combat is a little grindy, but it still isn't difficult to survive.

Anything you could kite before, you still can, it's just harder to brute force solutions (which wasn't a great idea before either)

 

Today I was playing single player and I gathered some pigs to go for a tier 3 spider nest (no queen) and I couldnt really kite the warrior spiders , and i was afraid all those spiders would kill my pigs, so I jumped in the fight with a log suit and a spear and survived... My point is I think you cant always kite... single enemies like a treeguard, ok, they are easy, even 3 spiders... but not so many as in a 2 tier nest, where one of them jumps at you...

 

 

Btw , after this i went a little greedy and started killing my pigs for pig skin :/ . Thats where it all went downhill :p haha

 

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Today I was playing single player and I gathered some pigs to go for a tier 3 spider nest (no queen) and I couldnt really kite the warrior spiders , and i was afraid all those spiders would kill my pigs, so I jumped in the fight with a log suit and a spear and survived... My point is I think you cant always kite... single enemies like a treeguard, ok, they are easy, even 3 spiders... but not so many as in a 2 tier nest, where one of them jumps at you...

 

 

Btw , after this i went a little greedy and started killing my pigs for pig skin :/ . Thats where it all went downhill :razz: haha

 

 

Kiting arbitrary numbers of spiders and spider nests in single-player is actually not difficult, once you figure it out. If you never fight on the web, there will never be warrior spiders jumping at you, so that's the first bit of strategy. Second, as long as you attack once and immediately move away, spiders won't be able to finish an attack. So you can just keep doing that until they're all dead (and if the spiders happen to spread out, you can get another hit or two in sometimes). In DST it's a bit harder because of lag (which is particularly bad with lots of spiders nearby), and also because it takes 5 hits to kill the spiders instead of 3.

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Kiting arbitrary numbers of spiders and spider nests in single-player is actually not difficult, once you figure it out. If you never fight on the web, there will never be warrior spiders jumping at you, so that's the first bit of strategy. Second, as long as you attack once and immediately move away, spiders won't be able to finish an attack. So you can just keep doing that until they're all dead (and if the spiders happen to spread out, you can get another hit or two in sometimes). In DST it's a bit harder because of lag (which is particularly bad with lots of spiders nearby), and also because it takes 5 hits to kill the spiders instead of 3.

 

I will admit that its been a long time since i played ds (just came back a little ago with dst). And I think that YEAH, you could kite a tier 2 spider nest...but a tier 3 nest spawns 3 warriors :/

 

Sometimes you just have to tank the damage , that's my opinion. Its easy to make a single mistake in your grind :p

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I will admit that its been a long time since i played ds (just came back a little ago with dst). And I think that YEAH, you could kite a tier 2 spider nest...but a tier 3 nest spawns 3 warriors :/

 

Sometimes you just have to tank the damage , that's my opinion. Its easy to make a single mistake in your grind :razz:

 

Tier 2 and Tier 3 can both spawn warriors, but they only spawn if you fight too close to the nest (the range goes just over the edge of the web). So what you do it go near it to make three normal spiders come out, stay close enough for them to aggro you, then lead them off the webs and kite them there. I guarantee no warrior spiders :p

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