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Zethariel

Dedicated servers and why they won't happen :(

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Zethariel    9

It is kind of sad that the mechanics of Don't Starve do not allow the possibility of dedicated, persistent servers that would surely rival those of Minecraft in both the variety of conent and modability.

 

For one, time flow causes everything in the world to change - no chunk is frozen in time, food keeps decaying and fires burn out. Traps get eventually sprung, and a person who left for even a few hours may find his base in a worse state.

 

The other issue is that there is only so much living space in Don't Starve - a fresh player can only go so far, and I wouldn't count on server admins or players to be generous enough to create boot camps for new players that could stock up on items to move further away.

 

It will be a great game to play with friends, I'm sure, but public dedicated servers are just unfeasable.

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jbeetle    1,872

It is kind of sad that the mechanics of Don't Starve do not allow the possibility of dedicated, persistent servers that would surely rival those of Minecraft in both the variety of content and modability.

I agree with some of what you said, but not this. not in the least. The capability of Minecraft is waaaaaaaaay more than Don't Starve will ever be.

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Battal    9,884

There's going to be a four-player limit, so what's the point in having a dedicated, public server anyways?

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Zethariel    9

I agree with some of what you said, but not this. not in the least. The capability of Minecraft is waaaaaaaaay more than Don't Starve will ever be.

I did modding for both.

 

Don't starve is way easier because everything is exposed and written as Lua scripts, so if you're persistent enough, you can rewrite it into a totally different game altogether (like the Screecher mod did)

 

Minecraft is limited by being REALLY poorly optimized and trying to rewrite base functions requires advanced Java knowledge (and decoding what random named variables mean)

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Zethariel    9

There's going to be a four-player limit, so what's the point in having a dedicated, public server anyways?

That is the minimum maximum amount. With modding, you can achieve anything - the real limit can be rewritten to be much, much more - once multiplayer is actually implemented, you can re-code it into how many you want.

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jbeetle    1,872

I did modding for both.

 

Don't starve is way easier because everything is exposed and written as Lua scripts, so if you're persistent enough, you can rewrite it into a totally different game altogether (like the Screecher mod did)

 

Minecraft is limited by being REALLY poorly optimized and trying to rewrite base functions requires advanced Java knowledge (and decoding what random named variables mean)

It might be easier, but it's way more limited. And not even including modding, someone playing minecraft can create way more than what someone can create in Don't Starve. Imagine a creative mode like Minecraft but without the ability to build.

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Zethariel    9

It might be easier, but it's way more limited. And not even including modding, someone playing minecraft can create way more than what someone can create in Don't Starve. Imagine a creative mode like Minecraft but without the ability to build.

Maybe a more concrete example will put my point across:

 

Minecraft: Adding a new item:

- Write a server side plugin (through using Java Reflexion and decompiling the source of the server)

- Write a client side plugin (through using Java Reflexion and decompiling the source of the client)

- Post your client side plugin somewhere

- Host the server and hope players get the plugin, since they won't be able to correctly play on your server otherwise

 

Don't Starve: Adding a new item:

- Write a Lua script that handles your item

- Wrap it in a mod template from one of the numerous tutorials.

- Place it in the Steam Workshop

- Host your server. I reckon that Klei will force the client and server to have the same mod packs enabled, in which case the user will receive a polite message to update their game with mod X.

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tex12347    11

That is the minimum maximum amount. With modding, you can achieve anything - the real limit can be rewritten to be much, much more - once multiplayer is actually implemented, you can re-code it into how many you want.

Do you really think I'd want to play Don't Starve with more than 4 people? The only time I plan to play DST is with my friends.

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Zethariel    9

Do you really think I'd want to play Don't Starve with more than 4 people? The only time I plan to play DST is with my friends.

Maybe you wouldn't :) Fortunately, the community does not end on your needs and wants.

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tex12347    11

Maybe you wouldn't :-) Fortunately, the community does not end on your needs and wants.

Wow, you answered fast!

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jbeetle    1,872

Maybe a more concrete example will put my point across:

 

Minecraft: Adding a new item:

- Write a server side plugin (through using Java Reflexion and decompiling the source of the server)

- Write a client side plugin (through using Java Reflexion and decompiling the source of the client)

- Post your client side plugin somewhere

- Host the server and hope players get the plugin, since they won't be able to correctly play on your server otherwise

 

Don't Starve: Adding a new item:

- Write a Lua script that handles your item

- Wrap it in a mod template from one of the numerous tutorials.

- Place it in the Steam Workshop

- Host your server. I reckon that Klei will force the client and server to have the same mod packs enabled, in which case the user will receive a polite message to update their game with mod X.

And imagine Minecraft with great mod ease of implementation but low capability and no way to create anything special within the server. Essentially - mods would be the only way to customize your world. In Minecraft, there you can build anything you want, complex contraptions, etc without mods. 

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Zethariel    9

And imagine Minecraft with great mod capability but no way to create anything special within the server.

Hola, you are now comparing gameplay. Minecraft and DS are totally different in that regard. Minecraft focuses on free-frolicking and building. Don't Starve is about survival and discovery.

 

This game has items and crafts that serve purpose and are usefull in the context of the world - MC prefers to have a variety of multi-purpose and aesthetical props.

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jbeetle    1,872

This game has items and crafts that serve purpose and are usefull in the context of the world - MC prefers to have a variety of multi-purpose and aesthetical props.

I still don't see how DS would rival the content and moddability of MC. I also don't see any mods that do so currently except maybe Up & Away. Of course you did say it's too bad the mechanics don't allow for persistent servers, but I don't see how having that would improve (or otherwise) upon anything.

 

Maybe you could clarify what you mean by "mechanics."

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Zethariel    9

I still don't see how DS would rival the content and moddability of MC. I also don't see any mods that do so currently except maybe Up & Away. Of course you did say it's too bad the mechanics don't allow for persistent servers, but I don't see how having that would improve (or otherwise) upon anything.

 

Maybe you could clarify what you mean by "mechanics."

I meant how the game works - how it handles the passage of time, generating terrain, monsters and resources.

You may be right, I am talking in theoretical capacity for content - for Minecraft the art style and geometry is simpler, hence we see mods that incorporate new entity types more often. Don't Starve requires more effort put into even items, hence the amount of content (despite the potential) is low.

 

So all in all, I concede - Don't Starve might have potential, but Minecraft has the content

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J20hawkz    768

@Zethariel

First, dedicated servers. We will provide a standalone server that will allow you to set up your own dedicated servers on whatever host you want whether it be from home or from a 3rd party host.

In addition, you will also be able to play local games that you will not need to run a dedicated server to play. So, all you couples and families can not starve together

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jbeetle    1,872

Again we're trying to compare DST to Minecraft SMP? Why? Why can't DST be it's own thing, instead of the slackjawed cousin of Minecraft?

Even though the conversation has been over for a while now. for the record, my comparison to MC was essentially saying that they aren't comparable from every angle.  :-) but I don't want that to be confused with "they have nothing in common."

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Again we're trying to compare DST to Minecraft SMP? Why? Why can't DST be it's own thing, instead of the slackjawed cousin of Minecraft?

That is because they are kind of similar.  Minecraft and Don't Starve are both survival games, both give you nothing to start out with and you make stuff out of nature, they both have hunger bars, and they have creatures that spawn at night and try to kill you.  I like don't starve better though.  The only difference is that Don't starve is 2D (pseudo 3D) and minecraft is blocky and 3D.  Minecraft is also more popular (sadly) and allows online right now. (Which don't starve will have soon)

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Silentdarkness1    1,160

That is because they are kind of similar.  Minecraft and Don't Starve are both survival games, both give you nothing to start out with and you make stuff out of nature, they both have hunger bars, and they have creatures that spawn at night and try to kill you.  I like don't starve better though.  The only difference is that Don't starve is 2D (pseudo 3D) and minecraft is blocky and 3D.  Minecraft is also more popular (sadly) and allows online right now. (Which don't starve will have soon)

The undertones of Minecraft and Don't Starve are quite different. As is the combat system, basic game mechanics, enemies, so on so forth. Don't Starve should be taken into account as it's OWN GAME, dammit. Not a MC alternative.

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The undertones of Minecraft and Don't Starve are quite different. As is the combat system, basic game mechanics, enemies, so on so forth. Don't Starve should be taken into account as it's OWN GAME, dammit. Not a MC alternative.

Most people don't really look at all that, the way the game is played.  I agree that don't starve should have its own group, but it has way too many things in common with minecraft.

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Silentdarkness1    1,160

The problem with comparing this game to Minecraft is that eventually someone will dare to say whether one game is better than the other, and that only leads to hurt feels everywhere.

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Ixmore    19

I would prefer there were no dedicated servers because then there would be a lot restrictions in the world ruining some of the fun in the game. There would even be servers that alter the game to a point that it's not don't starve.

 

Example: a server where there's one giant, powerful Maxwell and everyone else has to kill him.

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Zethariel    9

I would prefer there were no dedicated servers because then there would be a lot restrictions in the world ruining some of the fun in the game. There would even be servers that alter the game to a point that it's not don't starve.

 

Example: a server where there's one giant, powerful Maxwell and everyone else has to kill him.

That has nothing to do with dedicated servers though - you can achieve this effect with mods even today. And it was already confirmed that DST will support mods :p

 

I gave this matter some more thoughts, now that the dedicated servers are going to be a thing, and I hope that it will work something like a lobby system - the game will be in a suspended, unstarted state untill enough people join and start the game. When they are done (tired, sleepy, want a break) and they quit, the server would then save the game, put it aside and wait for a new connection. It could then either resume the previously saved game (given the same bunch of players join) or start a new game world for a new group of players.

 

In the above context dedicated servers would work like L4D servers do now - just serve the game world for the purpose of a concrete match instead of being a persistent world in which time flows indeffinetly, potentially causing a lot of fuss over time flow.

 

P.S. Please stop derailing the thread with MC/DST comparisons :p You can start a new thread about it elsewhere.

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