Jump to content

Permadeath in Don't Starve Together announced as OPTIONAL


A poll on Permadeath  

389 members have voted

  1. 1. Should DST have Permadeath?

    • Yes
      131
    • No
      37
    • Yes/No as an Option in world customisation
      242


Recommended Posts

What?  There are several ways to avoid death in singleplayer.  Amulets.  Touchstones.  Meat effigies.

 

All Klei needs to do is have an effigy revive anyone who is dead, and there will be no issues.  Have one of you play as wilson if you're inexperienced and likely to die.  Or, turn touchstones up so they're everywhere.

 

Death shouldn't be trivial in Don't Starve, but dying once or twice per world shouldn't be a problem for a skilled team.  Free respawns is a bad idea though.

Actually, IF they had to make the game easier, I'd be OK with everyone starting out with one touchstone of their own. I think that's reasonable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, of course I see bunch of arguments about permadeath should be in DST. I cant say something against it. But anyone can tell me why there can't be an option? It's because you always will choice permadeath, but your friedns actually may don't want PD sometimes and you should agree with them or not play? But if there woudn't be an option you always will be right, right? It looks egoistic.

 

The option already exists. Create a world in which death is such a statistical improbability you'd, realistically, have to try and go out of your way to kill yourself.

 

Turn up touchstones

Turn up berries.

Set day to permanent.

Turn off caves.

Permanent autumn.

No Monsters.

Fox only.

Final Destination.

 

There's your world without permadeath. You might think such a world is boring, but let's face it, the only reason why there's any excitement with a more difficult map is because you actually stand to lose something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

There's your world without permadeath. You might think such a world is boring, but let's face it, the only reason why there's any excitement with a more difficult map is because you actually stand to lose something.

Why something always must be world and hours of work with my friend? And this don't explain why there shouldn't be an option

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If your friend dies in DST then whats the point of continuing on anyways. Maybe some sort of shared lives system? If I was playing a multiplayer game and the other player can't play anymore I would just stop playing too of course. I intend to play it co-op so some sort of shared lives system would make sense and then if you die then you can blame poor teamwork and try to do better next time :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/32017-i-just-randomly-got-struck-by-lightning-and-died/

 

Low health Maxwell might be undesirable in perma-death MP game.

I don't like the idea of anyone being able to be struck by lightning except WX. In my opinion, the only thing you shouldn't be able to control/prepare for is other players. Everything else should be about either not know of it if you're new to the game, screwing up, or not being prepared and being overwhelmed. Random things are nice but not when they're uncontrollable death machines. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Turning off perma-death kinda kills the point of the game, BUT it would serve a larger audience if you could turn it off. 

 

I don't change any world settings ever except autumn start and world size/shape. Everything else feels like cheating to me.

 

But then again, everyone isn't me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why something always must be world and hours of work with my friend? And this don't explain why there shouldn't be an option

 

There shouldn't be a permadeath slider just like there shouldn't be a slider to turn the hunger bar off. It's a core mechanic of the game.

However, if players are struggling with things like finding food, one can go into the sliders and up the food sources available. Finding food is still, technically, an aspect of the game though now it's not even remotely close to a challenge. Similarly, you can craft a world in which it's really really hard to die, but the possibility of experiencing permadeath still exists.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/32017-i-just-randomly-got-struck-by-lightning-and-died/

 

Low health Maxwell might be undesirable in perma-death MP game.

 

Well well well... look at that.

So, like I said, unless lightning is constantly striking you, you're not dying for random reasons.

 

Maybe Maxwell should get a health buff then or a lightning strike's damage should be nerfed a bit. That makes sense to me. Disabling a core mechanic of the game doesn't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There shouldn't be a permadeath slider just like there shouldn't be a slider to turn the hunger bar off. It's a core mechanic of the game.

However, if players are struggling with things like finding food, one can go into the sliders and up the food sources available. Finding food is still, technically, an aspect of the game though now it's not even remotely close to a challenge. Similarly, you can craft a world in which it's really really hard to die, but the possibility of experiencing permadeath still exists.

 

Are you competing against anyone? If not, then apply that same thinking to any mods. So long as there's not some ridiculous ranking ladders or something that make people extremely defensive of their accomplishments, why stifle a suggestion for a slider that you don't intend to use anyway?

 

Just because you or I don't like to 'choke up on the bat' and make things easier for ourselves doesn't mean no one should be able to. If anything you open the doors to less hardcore audiences and sell more copies. 

 

Just a guess but I'm guessing Klei is very interested in that last sentence.

 

In the end is this MULTIPLAYER going to actually BE a skin-of-your-teeth crafting and gathering to survive the elements game... or is it going to be a hangout for people who share a passion for mods and drawing faces with berry bushes? Is there going to be any actual suspense once you have 4 people tag-teaming a Bearger? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think increasing the ways one can prevent or reverse death would be fine. This way the challenge and the threat of losing everything remains but a wary player can take multiple steps to ensure nobody dies permanently. For example you could add a quest or an item that can revive a player once before it is destroyed. Gems are kind of rare so making them more common with the already available slider shouldn't be too bad as an option either. Other than that we've got meat effigies and touch stones to prevent death; one of which already has a slider. Additionally I think taking the multi-player expansion as an opportunity to expand on things like the nightmare world would be good. Maybe some kind of opposing force to the nightmare world too. It would give multi-player a kick start to do something interesting with friends.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the only problem i see with permadeath is it kills the point of MP you're supposed to be together not gone forever after a mistake just like cannibalism its don't starve TOGETHER  you're not supposed to be separated but then again why would someone who wants permadeath care about a slider the're just leave it off it dosen't affect them i get that it removes a mechanic but keeping it would also remove the point of multiplayer unless its a private server for people who like playing alone in MP i cant see the reason why a slider would affect them. Even then a slider wouldnt affect you. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you competing against anyone? If not, then apply that same thinking to any mods. So long as there's not some ridiculous ranking ladders or something that make people extremely defensive of their accomplishments, why stifle a suggestion for a slider that you don't intend to use anyway?

 

Mods are not comparable to a core mechanic of the game. Being able to skin Wilson to be your OC is not an integral aspect of the gameplay experience, nor is it even akin to in-game optional content like, say, with Adventure Mode or the Caves.

That's not to say that there aren't mods that allow someone to cheat and change the gameplay dynamic such as mods that allow players to use a backpack along with armor/clothes, but that's cheating.

 

Edit: I re-read this bit and you might walk away thinking I'm bashing mods or modders. Not my intent. I don't personally use mods, but I do understand that the modding community is greatly appreciated here and there's a diversity in the mods that are produced. They're not just merely relegated to "cheats" and "OCs" obviously.

 

Just because you or I don't like to 'choke up on the bat' and make things easier for ourselves doesn't mean no one should be able to.

 

Who said that? If anything, I've said that if people are really that worried about permadeath in their multiplayer games they should create a world in which death is a harder state to achieve. Turn up the berries, turn off the monsters, turn up touchstones, etc.

I'm not saying sliders should be disabled for MP games, no, I'm merely saying there shouldn't be a slider directly for permadeath.

 

If anything you open the doors to less hardcore audiences and sell more copies. 

 

Just a guess but I'm guessing Klei is very interested in that last sentence.

 

As is keeping their integrity.

 

In the end is this MULTIPLAYER going to actually BE a skin-of-your-teeth crafting and gathering to survive the elements game... or is it going to be a hangout for people who share a passion for mods and drawing faces with berry bushes? Is there going to be any actual suspense once you have 4 people tag-teaming a Bearger?

 

Oh okay, so because you think MP is going to be EZ-mode already, therefore, we should drive the last nail in the coffin and completely remove any remnants of challenge within the game?

 

This game was advertised as an, "Uncompromising Wilderness Survival Game."

 

Uncompromising.

Wilderness.

Survival.

Game.

 

And despite the game allegedly being harder in singleplayer mode, despite there definitely being permadeath in a singleplayer game, we still managed to have our berry bush faces.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mods are not comparable to a core mechanic of the game. Being able to skin Wilson to be your OC is not an integral aspect of the gameplay experience, nor is it even akin to in-game optional content like, say, with Adventure Mode or the Caves.

That's not to say that there aren't mods that allow someone to cheat and change the gameplay dynamic such as mods that allow players to use a backpack along with armor/clothes, but that's cheating.

 

Edit: I re-read this bit and you might walk away thinking I'm bashing mods or modders. Not my intent. I don't personally use mods, but I do understand that the modding community is greatly appreciated here and there's a diversity in the mods that are produced. They're not just merely relegated to "cheats" and "OCs" obviously.

 

 

Who said that? If anything, I've said that if people are really that worried about permadeath in their multiplayer games they should create a world in which death is a harder state to achieve. Turn up the berries, turn off the monsters, turn up touchstones, etc.

I'm not saying sliders should be disabled for MP games, no, I'm merely saying there shouldn't be a slider directly for permadeath.

 

 

As is keeping their integrity.

 

 

Oh okay, so because you think MP is going to be EZ-mode already, therefore, we should drive the last nail in the coffin and completely remove any remnants of challenge within the game?

 

This game was advertised as an, "Uncompromising Wilderness Survival Game."

 

Uncompromising.

Wilderness.

Survival.

Game.

 

And despite the game allegedly being harder in singleplayer mode, despite there definitely being permadeath in a singleplayer game, we still managed to have our berry bush faces.

I see how you feel about non permadeath you're strictly against that from the seems of it but for us less hardcore people i find that i always want a revive the shadow revive was a good idea so maybe have a slider for that but making the world easy mode takes away even more of the stuff unless you want purely to build (which may be a fun concept but ill pass) i dont see having the original sliders working. i do enjoy perma-death but as stated earlier ill say it again this is dont starve TOGETHER i dont want to start a new world after some guy dies cause he was derping around so maybe add a shadow realm or something as stated in the shadow revive idea? and can somone please link the thread it was on  i cant find it just to show everyone the concept thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@lone wolf is this what you're after? http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/36103-how-to-rebalance-dont-starve-for-multiplayer-is-there-a-problem-with-rocklobsters-page-14/page-14

I have some suggestions.

 

I think the shadow revival thing is a good idea. Perhaps a ritual to revive players that involves going to a new biome such as the nightmare realm would be a good start. It's already hinted at in the ruins underground(the light coming from the ruins can be a way in if you look hard for it) and I think adding new biomes can be interesting and add more depth to the games story. Finding out what happened with the ancients there or perhaps gaining new items and magic powers from directly confronting the dark ones does sound interesting to me, but you also run the risk taking away some the mystery of the dark ones. I suggest being careful with that if its ever implemented. Finding Charlie there and adding her as an unlock able character sounds good for future development too; the mechanic of dying at night can still work it just wouldn't be Charlie anymore; perhaps if you save her your character gets taken as a replacement similar to when saving Maxwell. 

 

Two different ways of dying sounds interesting too. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=261980676 This mod explores the idea of having a heavenly or a "Light/sky" biome while retaining the interesting style and personality that the game has. Definitely not suggesting to copy or do something similar. For instance, It could easily  be part of Maxwell s idea of good or light; but there should actually be an opposing force to the nightmare creatures that either Maxwell or you influences. I think its worth exploring as a way to interact with the world, progress the story and add new items, enemies and yet another biome to the game. Naughtiness is in the game already as a way to spawn Krampus and I think it can be expanded upon to influence how players die and what they become afterwards. Perhaps the ritual for revival a player has to complete(with optional help from other players) can be influenced by whether or not they were good. If they didn't have high naughtiness points they can perform a ritual in the light biome as part of a quest to get revived. If they were naughty they get re spawned as a shadow player and have to be reclaimed from the shadow biome. If a player dies while good I think simply becoming a ghost similar to Abigail is alright, they don't have to have a halo or anything. 

 

All in all I think exploring the darkness that surrounds the game and adding something opposing to it presents an opportunity to influence the world and make Don't Starve even more unique than the other sandbox games out there. Adding a few more structures and ways to get creative would help the multiplayer experience as well; probably stuff from the new biomes. I think it would help player creativity if there were more ways to customize forts and make them appear as homes. Perhaps you can allow them to use clouds and nightmare stuff. 

 

Oh and one more thing... rather than three strikes and you're out I think it should only be one death; or perhaps there should be something that determines how far gone your spirit is before its completely consumed by either side. This still makes the game challenging and death is still a big deal. For shadow beings perhaps insanity will determine this; and for ghosts(the light side of things) perhaps your health bar(maybe it can look different, white). Abigail takes damage before she is de-summoned. I think taking damage as a shadow being should make you lose sanity; therefore the threat of your character getting taken for good by the dark ones increases. Oppositely you taking damage increases your chances of ascending into the light, the only true escape. :razz: If a character fails to revive themselves after they die then i think the only way they can play again is if a player divides themselves similar to Maxwell s codex umbra, or summons them similar to Wendy s Abigail. During that time the player has a limited opportunity(and decreased stats) to revive them and puts themselves at risk. Just an Idea I'm throwing out there. Unless something about the gameplay changes I think death(and starving) should always remain a challenging and difficult part of the game(and it should be interesting too).  Additionally the new biomes should be accessible apart from death. 

 

I think that's all I have to say about it, hopefully my suggestions haven't already been discussed before. If anything I think increasing what you can do with the world and Maxwell's and Charlies positions; as well as the nightmare realm and the opposite realm would be a huge boon to the game. It adds game play and could make up for the game not being as sandboxy as its competition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just going to stir some more "stuff" into the mix.

PvP and Permadeath. Someone as Woodie transformed into Werebeaver vs everyone else (especially at night). Won't last very long will we...

Can Permadeath really work if DST gets PvP?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly permadeath is what makes dont starve well dont starve but there are times i wish there wasnt permadeath. So i voted for a option to vote. So if i wanted to do a hardcore survival type of thing i can do that or wanna just play and mess around with my friends i can do that. Definitely a topic that should be discussed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just going to stir some more "stuff" into the mix.

PvP and Permadeath. Someone as Woodie transformed into Werebeaver vs everyone else (especially at night). Won't last very long will we...

Can Permadeath really work if DST gets PvP?

yeah if pvp is added i think there should be a spectater mode rather then a revive or maybe a max of 3 revives like in super smash bros you just fight till the end (of course no power ups) and once you're out of revives you just spectate and possibly a team death match  where the revive may be similar to gw2 where you have to revive them over time or another idea is you have to donate resources 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just going to stir some more "stuff" into the mix.

PvP and Permadeath. Someone as Woodie transformed into Werebeaver vs everyone else (especially at night). Won't last very long will we...

Can Permadeath really work if DST gets PvP?

not strictly people who fight other people the entire time, but then again, that's boring anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
  • Create New...