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Permadeath in Don't Starve Together announced as OPTIONAL


A poll on Permadeath  

389 members have voted

  1. 1. Should DST have Permadeath?

    • Yes
      131
    • No
      37
    • Yes/No as an Option in world customisation
      242


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I reckon the casual gamers will alternate between permadeath being on and off. The more "hardcore" Don't Starvians will have it set at "on" all the time. It's good to have that choice.

Personally I'm undecided, for me Don't Starve should stick true to what it is. Don't Starve Together should be a different game that makes it stand out on its own, not directly associated with what we have grown to love from Don't Starve.

So for me DST should be similar to Don't Starve but have certain things about it that as fans we can say "Yeah well Don't Starve had this that I loved about it, but then again Don't Starve Together had this that is pretty awesome too" and so begins the DS vs DST fanbase era!

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Klei decided on a whole new way how death works in DST, but I wouldn't be surprised if they used the same death mechanics from DS.

Makes sense? I know I'm just rambling now.

I like the idea of being able to resurect members with amulets though, but over all DST should have perma death just like singleplayer. it's been said without perma death the game tends to fall apart.

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I like the idea of being able to resurect members with amulets though, but over all DST should have perma death just like singleplayer. it's been said without perma death the game tends to fall apart.

I would like to remain neutral but I agree with what you're saying. Personally I would hate to lose a tonne of hours with a friend(s) just because one of us died and there was no way they or I can come back. But I also don't want to feel like a "god" and know I won't lose everything if I go on a wild exploring spree. Don't Starve with how it implemented permadeath and the environment/gameplay was genius.

Picture the scenario: Just imagine you start a new game with some friends, then literally someone dies a stupid death (this is actually quiet common) early on and you don't feel like playing without them so you start a new server. The same thing happens again in the next game, maybe with a different friend. The cycle goes on.

DST has to have permadeath combined with something else to make it work. I don't know what that something else is though. The Amulet idea you mentioned is a great idea, I've mentioned that myself in the Balance Multiplayer for DST thread, and I've seen others mention it too. Something like that would be awesome.

I also mentioned how we each start with a Amulet so if we do happen to die early on that's our first "given/auto" revival, yeah it sounds cheap but it's one way of stopping an accidental death early on. Maybe after a certain amount of days the Amulet disappears so it's not there as an extra life line all the time. Just a way to allow us to adjust to the world at the start.

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I think there should absolutely be permadeath. But I can see why people would want it not to be permadeath, so perhaps an additional crafting item that can be turned on or off that can bring other players back could be a thing.

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Permadeath is a must. But i there should be a touchstone that everyone spawns at when you first make the world. The touchstone will act as a global respawn point for all players and will decay over time. There could be an option to configure how long the touchstone lasts and how many times it can be used. This makes the game a little more forgiving to those random pre-mature deaths and the rookies who are trying to learn from their expert friends.

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Permadeath is a must. But i there should be a touchstone that everyone spawns at when you first make the world. The touchstone will act as a global respawn point for all players and will decay over time. There could be an option to configure how long the touchstone lasts and how many times it can be used. This makes the game a little more forgiving to those random pre-mature deaths and the rookies who are trying to learn from their expert friends.

I agree with that, more or less, but I don't think it should immediately be there. You should have to make it.

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maybe their should be permadeath In don't starve together...BUT....the dead player would be able to watch what the surviving player(s) are doing and give feedback.

and that if the surviving players found a touch stone, a life giving amulet or created a touch stone then one of the dead players will come back.

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Permadeath is what gives most of its interest to Don't Starve, or more precisely the threat of permadeath. If that wasn't a threat, we would be running around willy-nilly, trying to kill everything in sight, and bored with the game after two days. So, I think the threat of permadeath sould definitely stay.

 

But.

 

There are ways to avoid it in the game, and we should be able to use them in DST too. One touchstone per player, and the ability to be bound to only one at the time, for exemple. This way, everybody can get a second chance or you can forgo yours to help another player if you're playing with less experienced players. Life-giving amulets and meat effigies should be in the game too. A way to resurrect a fallen ally for a hefty price would be good too. This way, experienced players can help newcomers, but everybody knows there is a price to pay for you or an ally once you've used your free life, and permadeath keeps its edge.

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I have been watching this Minecraft Hardcore series on youtube recently, where about seven or more people at the same time play around to beat any of the bosses, from scratch.

It looks like they're having great fun with permadeath being a thing, mourning their dead, sharing food and all that. For me it's like no other Minecraft series out there, or any game series even. And it wouldn't have been without permadeath looming around.

Don't starve could perfect this horror aspect. Being a true survival game unlike Minecraft.

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Of coarse it should, and having an option to have it turned off or on is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

 

Permadeath IS don't starve. Giving people an option to have it turned off may sound desirable at first, but I know for a fact if I've had an option to just respawn every time I died I would not be still playing this game to this day. The game is just so much more rewarding and intense when you know all your effort is at constant risk of being lost, players would be unwittingly limiting their Don't Starve experience with such a feature...

Except there has been an option to turn it off almost since day one. Mods. Or even the occasional backup/copy of the game files (and replacing them when you die). Just because you have no self control doesn't mean the option needs artificially limited because it would disturb your style of play. Heck one of the greatest things about PC gaming is being able to play something the designers never imagined there game doing.

But, back directly on topic. Yes, the game should have "permadeath", but like someone else said, only have as much permadeath as it already has (there are plenty of ways to respawn in the game at the moment, even without mods). The main thing to see here (which should be obvious) is if klei doesn't create some way to drop-in/drop-out and some way to reasonably easily continue playing (on the same map) as your friends, then multiplayer will be an unmitigated failure. If it's only feasible to play with equally skilled players, and a mistake punts you from the game forever most people will give up on it in a short time.

Maybe a dayZ style return to the "beach" naked and alone with no inventory (and in PvE no dropped inventory unless being resurrected by something). Or a series of resurrection options to choose from at game start. Say from a sandbox style "instant respawn, no loss" all the way to permadeath unless you had some resurrection item or effigy or similar (basically identical to SP).

But provide the option regardless.

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But, back directly on topic. Yes, the game should have "permadeath", but like someone else said, only have as much permadeath as it already has (there are plenty of ways to respawn in the game at the moment, even without mods). The main thing to see here (which should be obvious) is if klei doesn't create some way to drop-in/drop-out and some way to reasonably easily continue playing (on the same map) as your friends, then multiplayer will be an unmitigated failure. If it's only feasible to play with equally skilled players, and a mistake punts you from the game forever most people will give up on it in a short time.

I agree with everything you said here, but I also think it should be considered the same way from the other direction. Without a way to make it fun to play with friends, it'll be a failure, yes, but without something pushing you it will also be a failure. Minecraft is a bad example all around because there are things to do if you decide you don't want to do survival. Don't Starve doesn't have that option, and even if it did have a creative mode it would be pointless because you can't really be that creative in DS...at least not when compared to a true sandbox game.

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I have been watching this Minecraft Hardcore series on youtube recently, where about seven or more people at the same time play around to beat any of the bosses, from scratch.

It looks like they're having great fun with permadeath being a thing, mourning their dead, sharing food and all that. For me it's like no other Minecraft series out there, or any game series even. And it wouldn't have been without permadeath looming around.

Don't starve could perfect this horror aspect. Being a true survival game unlike Minecraft.

The important thing to remember though is your watching a modded game, a server setup *specifically* to cater to this setup. The base game works nothing like the series your watching. If it did then you probably wouldn't be watching that video series because It likely wouldn't exist (because minecraft would never have become the hit it is if it played like that).

Btw, what is the series called? Just minecraft hardcore? It sounds like an interesting series!

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I agree with everything you said here, but I also think it should be considered the same way from the other direction. Without a way to make it fun to play with friends, it'll be a failure, yes, but without something pushing you it will also be a failure. Minecraft is a bad example all around because there are things to do if you decide you don't want to do survival. Don't Starve doesn't have that option, and even if it did have a creative mode it would be pointless because you can't really be that creative in DS...at least not when compared to a true sandbox game.

I disagree that it *requires* a push. Just look at the popularity of all the sandbox games right now? Heck people play that moon base game just to bounce around and play text to speech music (if you haven't seen this, look it up. It's both disturbing and hilarious). My wife loves Don't Starve. Yet she only really plays a small subset of the game. No winter, extra beefalo, extra pigs, less hounds, and she doesn't explore the caves, etc. Yet she has put 400+ hours into it, probably 10 times as much as me or more. If she had been forced to play it exactly as developed (winter, specific hound frequency, etc) I'm not sure she would still be playing.

I just don't ever understand people arguing for LESS options (and maybe your not, this is just a general statement).

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I just don't ever understand people arguing for LESS options (and maybe your not, this is just a general statement).

I'm not. I'm arguing for what the default game should be. If the answer is "they can just add options" to every suggestion, it doesn't really help anyone decide anything because that's obvious. (and I wasn't really arguing in this case)

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I have said it before and I will say it again.

 

When your friend dies and is banned from the game, will you now play single player on a multiplayer server? 

 

Yes, I understand that perma death is part of the original design of the game. So was single player, and perma death does not mix well when playing with friends.

 

As for the ghosting thing, how long many days before ghosting becomes absolutely boring? Any "mode" that occurs after the player perma dies will grow stale. People are going to want to play normally, not some mode designed to make perma death in multiplayer interesting when its really a pain.

 

I find it interesting that it is apparently sad that I don't want perma death in MP. More so that people love the idea that its sad.

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how long many days before ghosting becomes absolutely boring? 

Immediately, for me. I never liked that idea especially coupled with permadeath. Anyway, I think there should be a middle ground. If you can just respawn like you can currently with a touchstone, only an unlimited amount of times, there's no reason to even have anything that can hurt you in the game.

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Except there has been an option to turn it off almost since day one. Mods. Or even the occasional backup/copy of the game files (and replacing them when you die). Just because you have no self control doesn't mean the option needs artificially limited because it would disturb your style of play. Heck one of the greatest things about PC gaming is being able to play something the designers never imagined there game doing.

But, back directly on topic. Yes, the game should have "permadeath", but like someone else said, only have as much permadeath as it already has (there are plenty of ways to respawn in the game at the moment, even without mods). The main thing to see here (which should be obvious) is if klei doesn't create some way to drop-in/drop-out and some way to reasonably easily continue playing (on the same map) as your friends, then multiplayer will be an unmitigated failure. If it's only feasible to play with equally skilled players, and a mistake punts you from the game forever most people will give up on it in a short time.

Maybe a dayZ style return to the "beach" naked and alone with no inventory (and in PvE no dropped inventory unless being resurrected by something). Or a series of resurrection options to choose from at game start. Say from a sandbox style "instant respawn, no loss" all the way to permadeath unless you had some resurrection item or effigy or similar (basically identical to SP).

But provide the option regardless.

 

I'm all for modding, but I don't think something as game breaking as no permadeath should be as easily available in the vanilla game as a big button saying "click here to never have to worry about dying again". 

 

Look at this thread for instance: http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/36920-mods-have-ruined-this-game-for-me/

 

People DO lack self control and people WILL ruin their gaming experience completely unaware that they are even doing so.

 

 

 

---EDIT---

 

Just because you have no self control doesn't mean the option needs artificially limited because it would disturb your style of play.

 

The option wasn't here in the first place.. this would be an addition to the game not a limitation.

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I think permadeath should be in the game.

 

I'm not opposed to safety nets like a meat effigy and the such, but should one die without said safety net, they should be dead-dead.

 

Now, that doesn't mean that the player now must sit out. They could, for example, come back as a ghost and help out the surviving players in other ways, but the penalty for being caught out should be severe, or so I think.

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I was thinking....just allow it. Have permadeath always on.

My only concern was permadeath early on like from day 1-10. Surely after or during this time you'll be able to find and active a touch stone. Yes it will be a pain if a friend permadies during this time, but it's not a massive loss to both, as honestly in 10 or so days you have mostly been exploring and haven't really wasted much time maybe an hour or so). So starting over is not an issue I don't feel.

What would be better though is for touch stones to allow a revive ONCE each for every player. So if there are 2 players and one dies he gets revived by the touch stone but it doesn't break, allowing the other player to use it. The first player who died won't get revived twice by the same touch stone.

If you can just respawn like you can currently with a touchstone, only an unlimited amount of times,

This isn't permadeath then.

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I have read a lot of threads on these forums related to multiplayer coming to Don't Starve.  Don't Starve is a game that myself and several of my friends own, and like.  However, we prefer to play games together, and therefore single player games rarely get much play from us.  We have all agreed that Don't Starve would be a very fun game to play together, just as so many other games can be.  However, a good deal that I have read about the opinions of people on exactly what should be done to Don't Starve in regards to multiplayer on these forums leaves me thinking that my friends and I will never play it at all, even though we all own the game.

 

Specifically, I am talking about permadeath in multiplayer.

 

Don't Starve is a single player game.  Permadeath makes sense in a single player game.  There are always ways to delay permadeath in Don't Starve.  Upon finally dying, the game world, and all progress in it, is lost.

 

Now let me put forth a scenario for you.

 

Myself and three friends are playing Don't Starve Together.  We have been playing for maybe an hour.  One of us, who is completely new to Don't Starve, let alone multiplayer, dies very, very stupidly.

 

What happens now?

 

According to what I've seen a lot of people say, we need to start an entirely new world, or we're "casuals".  If we have to start an entirely new game world everytime someone dies, no matter what the reason, we're not going to play, because we play games together and having to exclude a person after they die isn't playing together.

 

Permadeath should not exist in a mulitplayer game.  I keep reading these threads about what people think that multiplayer Don't Starve is going to be.  From my experience in other multiplayer survival games, it's not going to be a massive server with a hundred different people playing.  It's more likely going to be, at most, 8 friends playing together.  And they are not going to want to have to restart from scratch every time someone dies, which will happen a lot when you have people who are new to the game, as there are a lot of ways to die stupidly.

 

I have also seen various suggestions on how to deal with this issue.  I propose the following:  Upon death, the player respawns.  All items carried remain at the site they died at.  Their maximum statistics (Health, Hunger, Sanity, etc), are lowered by 1/5th multiplicatively (multiplied by .8), and the time it takes them to complete a task would be increased by 1/5th additively.  Their model would become increasingly desaturated as they accumulated more deaths, until it was completely desaturated at 7 deaths, at which they would have their maximum sanity, health, and hunger be approximately 20% of normal maximum and it would take them 2.6 times as long to perform a given action, either by directly increasing the time, or, with things like chopping down a tree, making it take more actions to perform.  At this point, they would fail to accrue further penalties.

 

This provides an initial steep penalty for death, and an equally steep penalty for further deaths, without punishing the people you are playing with for your own stupidity, lack of foresight, or inexperience with the game.  Everyone can continue to play in the same game world.  The penalties could be lifted, and the player could 'return to life' and become less desaturated, by the consumption of death-prevention items that already exist, or by the consumption of a new item that could be created for just such a purpose.  The number of items needed to be consumed to restore the character could also go up based on the number they have previously used.  1 MacGuffin might be sufficient to restore you to life the first time, 2 might be needed the second, 4 the third time, 8 the fourth, etc, etc.

 

This would allow friends to continue to play together without having to abandon a world, while at the same time providing steep penalties for death to discourage people from throwing themselves into the worm's mouth willy-nilly, and also allowing for resource-intensive means of negating those penalities.

 

But for the love of god, don't make me be completely unable to play Don't Starve Together because my friends and I will not be down with constantly restarting the world every time someone dies because 'muh permadeath'.

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