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How to Rebalance Don't Starve for Multiplayer? Console Commands Yes/No? page 16


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Shadow creatures is an excellent idea. I missed that one.

@polygone fair point. I actually like the shadow idea better than the skull idea, now that I've read it.

Edit: would you mind specifically typing up that shadow solution to death. Make improvements as you see fit, I'll add it to the OP as a Possible Solution to death. Would you mind?

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Shadow creatures is an excellent idea. I missed that one.

@polygone fair point. I actually like the shadow idea better than the skull idea, now that I've read it.

Edit: would you mind specifically typing up that shadow solution to death. Make improvements as you see fit, I'll add it to the OP as a Possible Solution to death. Would you mind?

Can do. Not doing much else atm anyways. xD

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Shadow Revive

When a player dies without means to revive themselves, they will respawn on next day as a 'shadow character'. This character will have fairly low, generic stats similar to a Wilson without a beard. They will also sport an appearance that resembles the nightmare creatures or a clone from the Codex Umbra, but be otherwise functionally identical to any other character you can play as but without the perks. As a shadow character, your main goal will be to find some means to revive yourself. If successful, you will be rewarded by becoming the character you were before you died and became a shadow. If you fail and die two more times as a shadow (totalling three strikes without a means of revival), then it will be counted as permenant death and you will be disallowed revival at that point.

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Shadow Revive

When a player dies without means to revive themselves, they will respawn on next day as a 'shadow character'. This character will have fairly low, generic stats similar to a Wilson without a beard. They will also sport an appearance that resembles the nightmare creatures or a clone from the Codex Umbra, but be otherwise functionally identical to any other character you can play as but without the perks. As a shadow character, your main goal will be to find some means to revive yourself. If successful, you will be rewarded by becoming the character you were before you died and became a shadow. If you fail and die two more times as a shadow (totalling three strikes without a means of revival), then it will be counted as permenant death and you will be disallowed revival at that point.

 

 

Nice. I have to add one thing though. As you'll revive as shadow without any of your items, in winter or summer - that'll mean nearly instant death from cold\heat. We need to add at least some insulation factor to the "shadow state". I mean you are not fully corporeal in this state so you have some protection against seasonal hazards.

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I think it'll be only one Chester since one eyebone will spawn in one world.

A 4th type of Chester would be hard to think of.

Sleeping will most likely be how it is in Minecraft all the people have to sleep for day.

Sanity Creatures will possibly be visible to people that have the right sanity to see said creature.

Also:

-All the players must activate and be close to the teleportato or Maxwell Door in order to go to a new world or Adventure mode.

-Hound attacks and bosses choose a random player to target.

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Nice. I have to add one thing though. As you'll revive as shadow without any of your items, in winter or summer - that'll mean nearly instant death from cold\heat. We need to add at least some insulation factor to the "shadow state". I mean you are not fully corporeal in this state so you have some protection against seasonal hazards.

 

That's a fairly valid point. Maybe as a shadow you'll gain complete protection from hot/cold, since you are actually just a shadow and not an actual person. The clones from the Codex don't shiver in winter, so I don't see a problem with letting the shadows be immune. It could be their one perk, but given they should probably have stats somewhere between Wes and Wilson, it'd still be a good idea for anyone to revive again. Especially if character-specific items can only be used by the character they belong to. I'd just wait until Summer/Winter is over to not have to deal with it heh.

 

e/ What if the giants spawned in teams? >;3

(this would solve the loot problem someone brought up and provide extra challenge for extra players without resorting to just adding numbers to a data value to make them stronger, and of course the giants can't hurt each other with the AoE attacks most have...) (also each giant would attack a different player)

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I think it'll be only one Chester since one eyebone will spawn in one world.

A 4th type of Chester would be hard to think of.

Sleeping will most likely be how it is in Minecraft all the people have to sleep for day.

Sanity Creatures will possibly be visible to people that have the right sanity to see said creature.

Also:

-All the players must activate and be close to the teleportato or Maxwell Door in order to go to a new world or Adventure mode.

-Hound attacks and bosses choose a random player to target.

 

1) One Chester in multiplayer game with 4 (or even more) people? That'll cause all kinds of arguments, fights etc. Either there needs to be several Chesters or just play DS Together without him completely.

2) I still think that forcing all players to sleep when only one or two needs to sleep (for stats restoration for example) is ridiculous... There were some nice offers how to solve this problem earlier in this thread.

3) Yep, you're insane - you see it, you're not - you don't.

4) I don't even think they'll implement Adventure Mode for co-op walkthrough... But Who knows?

5) For bosses - they pretty much neutral, until you aggro them by attacking\getting too close. For Hounds - I say they should spread out and attack each player simultaneously, so their "swarming tactic" will still have effect.

 

For Teleportato usage - it will depend on which conception will be used by Klei for MP World creation. Maybe there will not even be a Teleportato in MP at all.

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That's a fairly valid point. Maybe as a shadow you'll gain complete protection from hot/cold, since you are actually just a shadow and not an actual person. The clones from the Codex don't shiver in winter, so I don't see a problem with letting the shadows be immune. It could be their one perk, but given they should probably have stats somewhere between Wes and Wilson, it'd still be a good idea for anyone to revive again. Especially if character-specific items can only be used by the character they belong to. I'd just wait until Summer/Winter is over to not have to deal with it heh.

 

e/ What if the giants spawned in teams? >;3

(this would solve the loot problem someone brought up and provide extra challenge for extra players without resorting to just adding numbers to a data value to make them stronger, and of course the giants can't hurt each other with the AoE attacks most have...) (also each giant would attack a different player)

 

Yeah, immunity to seasonal hazards to shadows it is then. And to make it harder to survive as shadow maybe add a faster starvation rate? To prevent players from waiting until winter\summer ends?

 

About giants in teams I don't really know, that'll be just too chaotic in my opinion... Just imagine 4 Beargers doing their charge attack! Wood, stones everywhere. Maybe make them hit harder, be tougher and spawn for 2-3 player parties simultaneously? For normal mobs I think itts logical to make them just spawn in larger numbers and behave slightly differently and for Bosses - a definite buff for strength, HP and speed. That just my thoughts though.

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Yeah, immunity to seasonal hazards to shadows it is then. And to make it harder to survive as shadow maybe add a faster starvation rate? To prevent players from waiting until winter\summer ends?

 

About giants in teams I don't really know, that'll be just too chaotic in my opinion... Just imagine 4 Beargers doing their charge attack! Wood, stones everywhere. Maybe make them hit harder, be tougher and spawn for 2-3 player parties simultaneously? For normal mobs I think itts logical to make them just spawn in larger numbers and behave slightly differently and for Bosses - a definite buff for strength, HP and speed. That just my thoughts though.

Definately not 4. I was thinking teams of 2, maybe 3 if there's a lot of players on the server. Normal monsters would definately need buffs, but for bosses they already have triple digit health values, making it take a big more durability on your spears and armour won't really add to the challenge, just make it take longer to kill them. Having two spawn at once (and have them attack different players even though they spawn near each other) will mean you'll have to pay attention to the attacks from two giants swinging at you just as much as they'll have to be taking hits from the multiple players that are on your team. And if you're solo, then you'll only have to deal with the one giant since the other will be tracking some other player off in the distance.

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Definately not 4. I was thinking teams of 2, maybe 3 if there's a lot of players on the server. Normal monsters would definately need buffs, but for bosses they already have triple digit health values, making it take a big more durability on your spears and armour won't really add to the challenge, just make it take longer to kill them. Having two spawn at once (and have them attack different players even though they spawn near each other) will mean you'll have to pay attention to the attacks from two giants swinging at you just as much as they'll have to be taking hits from the multiple players that are on your team. And if you're solo, then you'll only have to deal with the one giant since the other will be tracking some other player off in the distance.

 

That'll be effectively the same if everyone had to deal with it on his own. I mean its not that hard, to just aggro them and lead them away from other giants. And I am not talking about just HP buff. Mainly its damage and speed (for example Dragonfly is much harder to kill just because its damn fast and can swipe while moving, which makes kiting nearly impossible).

 

And I don't really like to buff a normal mobs like spiders for HP and damage. Just add more of them in Dens. Careless player can die easily just hitting a spider near its den and being swarmed. More players? More Spiders than. They are still can be just lured into Trap field for easy monster meat and silk. And just imagine a Frog Rain with buffed frogs... Individual Players will be just ripped apart.

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Ew I just hate frog rain in general I always turn it off. Not like I can't get frogs from ponds. They don't really need a buff though, since they're already knockback resistant and knock items out of your inventory. Something like spiders though die in three hits with a spear and with multiple people that'd be really easy. Having tons of them swarm out would be just as devastating solo as a few strong ones, and it'd be worse on your sanity.

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Ew I just hate frog rain in general I always turn it off. Not like I can't get frogs from ponds. They don't really need a buff though, since they're already knockback resistant and knock items out of your inventory. Something like spiders though die in three hits with a spear and with multiple people that'd be really easy. Having tons of them swarm out would be just as devastating solo as a few strong ones, and it'd be worse on your sanity.

 

I hate it when I don't have enough grass and twigs and looove it when I have. 40 Drying Racks filled with ease for later Cave Expedition in one day, hell yeah. 

 

And making spiders stronger instead of more in quantity will make silk rare, when more players join one world. So let there be swarms (since when there are many of them, they can stunlock you as well as you can them). And if this will be worse for sanity - split the pack, lead them in different directions, cooperate. That'll be more fun.

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There needs to be a balance with Shadows. If resistant to heat/cold, they need to have something that makes using them not suitable for long. People will die on purpose and just abuse it.

I was thinking as a Shadow you have no health, hunger and and your sanity is set permanently at a point where hallucinations are visible but do not attack you, or set it lower so hallucinations do attack. Remember we are already allowing second chances in a game that punished us for dying.

All monsters in game are aggressive towards you. Other players can see you. But I was thinking as a shadow you have the ability to instantly teleport to any part of the map, to avoid confrontation with anyone against you. Also you have maybe 10 days to revive yourself, after which time you are permadead.

Just some random ideas. Haven't thought about them too much.

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That's quite a heavy claim to state that's the "best" solution to death. It just doesn't sound either fun or punishing enough, especially since it would be perfectly possible to achieve whatever it is you need to do to come back to life if you have a well established base with plenty of supplies to craft food, armour, etc.

 

So far, I just haven't seen any death mechanics that, in my view, would work well.

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There needs to be a balance with Shadows. If resistant to heat/cold, they need to have something that makes using them not suitable for long. People will die on purpose and just abuse it.

I was thinking as a Shadow you have no health, hunger and and your sanity is set permanently at a point where hallucinations are visible but do not attack you, or set it lower so hallucinations do attack. Remember we are already allowing second chances in a game that punished us for dying.

All monsters in game are aggressive towards you. Other players can see you. But I was thinking as a shadow you have the ability to instantly teleport to any part of the map, to avoid confrontation with anyone against you. Also you have maybe 10 days to revive yourself, after which time you are permadead.

Just some random ideas. Haven't thought about them too much.

 

Mm. Teleport seems to be OP. I suggest we make this shadow fellas invisible not only until dawn, but also to every sane person after dawn. So if you wanna hunt someone down completely - you maintain insane state searching the map, fighting not only shadow players but insanity mobs as well, that'll make killing some off much harder. About shadows benig time limited - as I said - make them starve much faster and the problem is solved... Ridding them of health and hunger completely, while making them just time limited - i don't think that'll be fun... 

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That's quite a heavy claim to state that's the "best" solution to death. It just doesn't sound either fun or punishing enough, especially since it would be perfectly possible to achieve whatever it is you need to do to come back to life if you have a well established base with plenty of supplies to craft food, armour, etc.

 

So far, I just haven't seen any death mechanics that, in my view, would work well.

 

That works only if you've been killed by monsters. If you have been killed by player - he'll probably go to your base and make sure you don't have any means to come back so easily. But you have a point, thats not as harsh as just dying off completely if you don't have a plan "B" like effigy or altar.

 

P.S. And we are not stating, that this one idea is better than anything. We don't even know what Klei has come up with to this moment, maybe they already worked that one out their own way. But I still think, that "shadows" idea is more fun, than just completely cutting off everyone who died carelessly without any means to resurrect. And that comes from one, who actually loves permadeath aspect of original DS.

 

Still if player was killed by monster and world is a non-PvP, then you are right - shadow just can quickly return to its base and get all the materials it needs. Maybe we need to restrict usage of all items that aquired prior to death resulting in shadow state. But then how other player supposed to help you revive? That one still needs some thinking.

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That works only if you've been killed by monsters. If you have been killed by player - he'll probably go to your base and make sure you don't have any means to come back so easily. But you have a point, thats not as harsh as just dying off completely if you don't have a plan "B" like effigy or altar.

 

P.S. And we are not stating, that this one idea is better than anything. We don't even know what Klei has come up with to this moment, maybe they already worked that one out their own way. But I still think, that "shadows" idea is more fun, than just completely cutting off everyone who died carelessly without any means to resurrect. And that comes from one, who actually loves permadeath aspect of original DS.

 

Still if player was killed by monster and world is a non-PvP, then you are right - shadow just can quickly return to its base and get all the materials it needs. Maybe we need to restrict usage of all items that aquired prior to death resulting in shadow state. But then how other player supposed to help you revive? That one still needs some thinking.

 

I agree, it's better than dying completely, but it's still far from the best like the title states.

 

And raiding bases really is something, ideally, I'd like to think wouldn't be as easy as you say, considering how destructable bases can be.

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I agree, it's better than dying completely, but it's still far from the best like the title states.

 

And raiding bases really is something, ideally, I'd like to think wouldn't be as easy as you say, considering how destructable bases can be.

 

This is just a bunch of ideas thrown together by DS fans for Klei to look through and consider, so of course not everything is worked out completely. I mean even in DS RoG not everything is perfectly balanced. No one said some suggestions better than other, every player has his\her own opinion)) And if somewhere someone said that "oh, this one is the best!" thats just his opinion) So take your time, maybe suggest some ways to deal with the problem you think not discussed enough) The more - the better, even if not even one of our ideas will be implemented - maybe we'll help the dev stumble upon something more balanced and interesting)

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Edited title :-)

 

Umm... well death and permadeath of course is big issue, but its not the only one... We pretty much mentioned a big part of nearly all balancing aspects of DS Together. I just mean its somewhat misleading title)

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Umm... well death and permadeath of course is big issue, but its not the only one... We pretty much mentioned a big part of nearly all balancing aspects of DS Together. I just mean its somewhat misleading title)

Agreed. But it's talked about a lot atm. So with that mentioned specifically in the title it will draw people's attention to what has been suggested in this thread. I'll keep it how it is, until more things are covered.

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